Full spectrum LED layouts

[jedimasterben]

okay, I've been dealing with this company for the past few days, and have been getting immediate responses, in almost flawless english (which is the most amazing part to me haha) but if any light will grow coral if the PAR is high enough, then what is it that separates the high quality american LEDs from the crappy china ones?

Efficiency (lumens per watt, mW radiance per watt), color, color consistency and quality control (which are basically nonexistant in Chinese diodes), thermal tolerance, luminous output at thermal loads higher than test temperature, and the list goes on and on.

 

Let's say a Chinese '4500k' diode puts out 110lm at 700mA with a V_f of 3.6v. That's 2.52 watts of power, so around 43 lumens per watt.

 

A Luxeon Rebel ES 4000K puts out around 220lm at the same current (for an 'average' diode, the higher bins reach 300 lumens), with a V_f of 2.9v. That's 2.03 watts of power, so around 108 lumens per watt. Over twice as efficient at converting power to light.

 

That is one of many examples. I've tested several eBay and Aquastyle chips (more than likely originating from the same or similar factories) and all perform very similarly, despite claims of otherwise. To be frank, they'll tell you anything you want to hear as long as you'll buy their product.

 

I don't have a thousand, or even 700 to spend on a light for my tank, as I said before, I'm a poor university student lol the one person that I have found that has used these seems really happy with them, and they're wonderful to deal with so far. I'm not doubting that the cree LEDs are higher quality than the quick and cheap chinese ones, but what difference will I notice in my tank? Especially considering its just a small 15 tall, that will likely get upgraded within a few years when I have my own house and the funds to build a 90 or something larger.

They'll more than likely be plenty strong enough for coral (unless they really shaft you lol), but you'll probably find color lacking, and the white LEDs would be the culprit. They're usually mismarked and much 'cooler' than their label would lead to believe, with 4500k being closer to 6500-7500k. Stay away from anything higher than 4500-5000. Have red or green LEDs will lead to uneven coverage and spotlighting if they have any lenses.

 

You'd be much better to just go with a Reefbreeders value than try dealing with any company directly out of China. If it doesn't turn out to be what they say it is, then you have no action you can take.

[cocojakes]

so how would a spread such as this fare? at being a cheap easy plug and play for a poor university student looking for a first programmable LED fixture? at this point, i understand that the quality might not be there, but as long as it is enough for my corals and fish to thrive, and is a decent colour spread for watching my pretty aquatic life, I'm happy. Assuming this is what I'm doing, are there any changes you would make to my layout? the numbers represent channel 1 and 2 (blue and white)

 

[Dorkfish]

Any criticism or comments on this setup would be greatly appreciated. I took note from the beginning of this thread for clusters for a 10 gallon tank. I didn't use the 3-ups for the NW and RBs. This will be layed out on a 14" heatsink. I want to run separate drivers for each color and building a jarduino for control. I want to try this before I setup a 75 or greater tank down the road. Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts.

Click on the image to see it

[jedimasterben]

Overkill IMHO. 3x NW (use the 4000K instead of 5K), 6x RB, 2x CB, 2x Cy, 4x HV.

 

I wouldn't use anything for moonlight over such a small tank, especially not powerful LEDs, and especially not more than one.

[Dorkfish]

I thought it was, I went off the chart at the beginning of this thread, I thought it looked like a lot after I put it on paper, and that's why it's on here so I can learn from the experienced. I was hoping to use something that I could move over to a 40 gal breeder down the road, but I guess I can add more in the future when I do move it, I'll just leave the heatsink oversized, I have a nice coralife T-5 fixture that will fit the heatsink drivers and a fan if needed.

[Chi_nano_reefer]

What size heatsink would you suggest for a 40B using figure 6?

[cbravo212]

Wow. Its been a while since anyone posted. After reading 17 pages, I was getting into a groove. The above post that showed the picture of the proposed fixture over a 10 gal, I have a question. If this type of cluster was used, would you notice any disco by not using 3 ups? The pic looks like they are pretty tight and I am just trying to figure out when a 3 up is totally recommended over individual LEDs.

[cocojakes]

if you were only able to do 3 clusters of 3 (no multi chips) over a 5 gal, how would you do it? I was thinking the two outside ones would be 1 neutral white, 1 450nm and 1 410nm, and the middle one a 660 instead of the 410? Any input, I like a more natural look (not super blue like some people) but I obviously still want a proper spectrum for corals. Probably won't be any sps in the tank though

[Horerczy]

if you were only able to do 3 clusters of 3 (no multi chips) over a 5 gal, how would you do it? I was thinking the two outside ones would be 1 neutral white, 1 450nm and 1 410nm, and the middle one a 660 instead of the 410? Any input, I like a more natural look (not super blue like some people) but I obviously still want a proper spectrum for corals. Probably won't be any sps in the tank though

I wouldn't worry about the spacing of anything between 400-430nm except for spread of that color since the other colors will wash the violet away with their easier to see wavelengths.

[kaskiles]

I was hoping to get suggestions on my layout, it's for a JBJ 28 nano cube (~18x18x18"). I had gotten some good recommendations on my LED choices in another thread I started:

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/329983-ocw-with-no-white/#entry4404319

 

But considering my layout of four separate groups, I was just wondering if I'm going to be ok not having both a true cool blue and cyan within each of the groups. Here is my layout sketch:

 

I'm thinking of using ~ 8.5 x 8.5 heatsink.

 

Thanks!

 

Ok, so I finally built this thing and have it running. Wow, did it really take that long, talk about dragging feet.

Anyway, I deviated slightly from the plan, each one of the four clusters has 2 rb, 2 tv, 1 4k white,1 cool blue and one cyan:

RT

CWB

TR

 

It's been running since this weekend, and I've been dimming no higher than 30% (77 of 255 arduino on all 700H LDDs). Each color has it's own channel, but right now I'm running them all at the same dim level. During a short test I noticed that I didn't get a nice crisp blue until I took them up to around 60% (153 of 255). I'm assuming I need to mix up the channel strengths to get the color mix I want at lower and higher dims.

 

All this is getting to my question on programming the separate channels. Instead of inputing time of day and intensity settings into my program, I'd like to input an equation where it solves the current intensity (77 of 255 or whatever) for the current time of day. I experimented with using Excel to make scatter plots of some set points, built 2 to 6 degree polynominal fits for them, and had it display the equations. But after looking at the equations I was thinking this is still pretty heavy duty when I want to go change these and experiment with other settings.

 

Someone else must have done this, and not have made it so over-complicated as I... Anyone have any pointers, links, face slaps, peanut gallery comments?

 

Thanks!

[cocojakes]

I'm not so concerned with the visual colour, I mostly want to see natural looking colours like a 12k light, but I mean for optimal growth what would you suggest in the 3 clusters of 3?

[cocojakes]

what does anyone think of this layout as single 21W bulbs? should I make the reef one more blue, maybe trade one of the neutral whites for a cyan or something?

[Yaman]

My tank is 60x40cm and 48 high. Gonna use Steve leds whit tubes. Typhone control is a must. Any ideas on a good setup for this?

skimmed this place 2 day but can't get any good info for my tank size and tubes :-(

 

Regards

Sweden

[cocojakes]

I started a new post for this, but maybe this is a better place for my question.

 

I've noticed that unless you have a lot of TV in a build, you don't notice the effects hardly at all once you turn on the whites, what if you were to swap the ratio, so instead of 2 RB, 1TV, 1NW you did 1 RB, 2TV 1NW?

 

TV is a powerhouse as far as par, and even the white has a fairly large 445nm peak, is there something I'm missing, or do you think this would allow me to really bring out the fluorescing without having the tank super blue, since the TV doesn't affect the colour we see in the tank much other than the fluorescent spectrum.

 

Any input, positive or negative, I'm tempted to give it a try to find out unless someone has some big issue I'm overlooking?

 

 

its for the new 20 long build I'm planning, I would use the same led layout as is suggested on uglybuckling's thread, but use the new TV 3up chips instead of the royal blue 3 ups, and use regular royal blue chips instead of the regular TV chips

in this pattern:

 

my only thoughts is this might cause more disco since the blues won't be beside the whites, and the blues and whites are what are more important to mix together, so maybe stick to the normal version, but have 4 TV instead of just 2? What do people think

[cocojakes]

maybe this would be a better idea

[Nano sapiens]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

 

Scroll down to 'Table 2' and you'll get a good idea of the amount of violet and blue needed based on the type of lighting you want to simulate based on a particular depth.

[cocojakes]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

 

Scroll down to 'Table 2' and you'll get a good idea of the amount of violet and blue needed based on the type of lighting you want to simulate based on a particular depth.

That is a VERY useful link. I just learnt SOOO much, and also am worried that the exotic LEDs dance around that ideal 420nm range, they have 410, and "430" which if you look at the graph looks more like 440. Steves LED has a 420, and the ability to custom build 3up stars, might have to look more into that. I'm liking more and more the idea of having even amounts of royal blue, and true violet though.

[Nano sapiens]

That is a VERY useful link. I just learnt SOOO much, and also am worried that the exotic LEDs dance around that ideal 420nm range, they have 410, and "430" which if you look at the graph looks more like 440. Steves LED has a 420, and the ability to custom build 3up stars, might have to look more into that. I'm liking more and more the idea of having even amounts of royal blue, and true violet though.

 

I use the Exotic TV in a close to 1:1 with RB and it has worked out really well. Since I bought all my LEDs from one source (LEDGroupBuy), using their 428nm made the most sense to me and I also wanted to go all solderless. I'm not sure if you'd gain much with the 420nm from Steve's, but that's your choice.

 

I believe that you were looking for a 10-12K look and I think you'll agree that my lighting is in that range. My digital camera thinks so, too, since I have very little post editing to do to achieve real-life coloration.

 

[cocojakes]

I use the Exotic TV in a close to 1:1 with RB and it has worked out really well. Since I bought all my LEDs from one source (LEDGroupBuy), using their 428nm made the most sense to me and I also wanted to go all solderless. I'm not sure if you'd gain much with the 420nm from Steve's, but that's your choice.

 

I believe that you were looking for a 10-12K look and I think you'll agree that my lighting is in that range. My digital camera thinks so, too, since I have very little post editing to do to achieve real-life coloration.

what is your exact LED count over that tank? thats the exact temperature I'm looking for, lots of fluorescence without being super blue like lots of other peoples tanks.

 

I'm considering cheeping out and getting the LEDs that reef breeders use, as they are still good LEDs, but are only 1.50 each, then get some generic heat sinks and slap them down as close I can get them with thermal glue in 3 groups like so:

 

with a fan above each group. This cuts my cost in half almost from 550 for all the stuff from LEDgroupbuy (including $100 of heatsink >.>) down to 300, still getting the same drivers and storm controller and such, but cheaper LEDs and heat sink makes a huge price difference. Then I can just attach it to my canopy instead of hanging it from the ceiling.

[Nano sapiens]

what is your exact LED count over that tank? thats the exact temperature I'm looking for, lots of fluorescence without being super blue like lots of other peoples tanks.

 

I'm considering cheeping out and getting the LEDs that reef breeders use, as they are still good LEDs, but are only 1.50 each, then get some generic heat sinks and slap them down as close I can get them with thermal glue in 3 groups like so:

 

with a fan above each group. This cuts my cost in half almost from 550 for all the stuff from LEDgroupbuy (including $100 of heatsink >.>) down to 300, still getting the same drivers and storm controller and such, but cheaper LEDs and heat sink makes a huge price difference. Then I can just attach it to my canopy instead of hanging it from the ceiling.

 

• DIY 'Full Spectrum' LED Strip #1: (2) OCW, (2) HV, (1) RB, (1) NW
• DIY 'Full Spectrum' LED Strip #2: (1) OCW, (2) HV, (3) WW, (2) RB
• Ecoxotic Stunner Strips w/polished individual reflectors (4 strips): (2) 8000K/Blue, (2) Royal Blue
• Circuit #1: (6 hrs): Both DIY LED Strips, (2) 8K/Blue

  Circuit #2: (10 hrs): (2) Royal Blue

 

Hmmm, it's kind of tough to compare components since my tank is a small 12g and yours is a lot larger. However, the same principles apply regarding sufficient intensity and spectrum irregardless of the tank size.

 

I wanted to have a lighting system that mimicked 'diffused light', similar to T5s, as well as 'point source' lighting which mimics MH. The 1/4W/each Stunner strips spanning most of the tank length imitate diffused lighting while the DIY strips add the point-source 'punch'. Corals are happy, I'm happy...'Win-Win'

[cocojakes]

yeah, I'm focused more on the point source, since 3 tightly packed LED pucks, should be no bigger than like 3x3 inches, spaced out about 6 inches apart. Hopefully its enough light, what do you think of the ratio I have going on? seems to be pretty standard, other than I added an extra 480nm blue, and doubled the number of TV

[Nano sapiens]

Most of these LEDs are fairly inexpensive, so I ordered a few extras. My initial configuration was close to what I wanted, but I needed to add any extra NW in my last DIY strip to add warmth to the lighting. Point is that you take your best shot, but you may need to adjust a little from there to achieve the look you are after.

[cocojakes]

Yeah, I have a few left overs from an old build if I need to make changes. I'm just trying to find a good cheap heatsink here in canada. I found one thats 6x6x1 cm, and the LEDs would only take up about 4x5cm but I feel like I might be setting myself up for problems if I squeeze 14x3W LEDs on a 6x6cm square heat sink with a fan. Should probably try and find a longer heat sink eh no one has yet to comment on how close together I plan on putting these things. They're just the bare LEDs with the little wings, and I plan on just soldering the wings together so they are maybe a few mm apart, they do the same thing for 3up stars, and even closer than that for lumina, does anyone think it will be a huge problem? I'm using the LEDs that reef breeders use.

[jedimasterben]

Yeah, I have a few left overs from an old build if I need to make changes. I'm just trying to find a good cheap heatsink here in canada. I found one thats 6x6x1 cm, and the LEDs would only take up about 4x5cm but I feel like I might be setting myself up for problems if I squeeze 14x3W LEDs on a 6x6cm square heat sink with a fan. Should probably try and find a longer heat sink eh no one has yet to comment on how close together I plan on putting these things. They're just the bare LEDs with the little wings, and I plan on just soldering the wings together so they are maybe a few mm apart, they do the same thing for 3up stars, and even closer than that for lumina, does anyone think it will be a huge problem? I'm using the LEDs that reef breeders use.

You realize that those LEDs need to be soldered to a PCB for use?

[cocojakes]

You realize that those LEDs need to be soldered to a PCB for use?

 

no they don't, I can just solder them to wires, I know how to check and make sure I have them oriented correctly with a simple multimeter, and am confident enough in my soldering ability to solder to the wings instead of the pads provided on stars. I don't see an issue on that front.