What can you tell me about the RKL?

[metrokat]

Correct. i never said it was impossible. it works on your MPB, because MPB ethernet port is auto-sensing. For any other computer you will need a special crossover ethernet cable, where pinout is different. The question was if it has to be hooked up directly to a computer. It does not.

 

As far as programming outlets from inside the app, it just redirects you to the web interface, but it does not work all the well. Better to just use Safari and go directly to your Apex like that.

 

what is a MPB?

 

technically i could hardwire the controller to a computer/router, set the controls on the Apex, then unplug it and have it do it's thing. Only now, because it has no access to the internet, I won't be able to monitor it or be able to adjust it using an app.

 

Did I get that right Solefald?

[gerbilbox]

what is a MPB?

 

technically i could hardwire the controller to a computer/router, set the controls on the Apex, then unplug it and have it do it's thing. Only now, because it has no access to the internet, I won't be able to monitor it or be able to adjust it using an app.

 

Did I get that right Solefald?

I think he meant MBP, which is shorthand for MacBook Pro, my computer.

 

You could do it that way, my Apex runs without any problems since the summer, it's proven it's reliability to me. It's like going on vacation and not being able to check your tank during that time. However, I would feel comfortable if there was an easy way to monitor it occasionally, especially to double check the calibration on the temperature probe to make sure that it's not off.

 

WHY???

Because I can I didn't trust the RKL's long-term reliability, and I wanted more useful graphs, ability to notify me in case of problems, and an easier time dealing with the interface whenever I did have to change a setting or monitor the controller.

[solefald]

Could you specify how you came up with these figures? Unless I'm missing part that are required and not included in the base package. According to my math, for $219 you get :

-Head Unit

-two float switches for ATO control

-Temp monitoring

-PH monitoring

-8 plug relay box

-required cords

 

 

Match those features in Apex or RKL and you are around at least $400

APEX--Display unit, 8 plug relay box, and temp probe is $250.

 

OK, Lets do it. But lets not compare apples to oranges.

 

Reef Angel is $219

- Head Unit

- 8 plug Relay Box

- PH Probe

- Waterproof Temperature Sensor

- 2x Float Switch

- NO INTERNET / NO WEB INTERFACE - additional $109 module, still gives you no web interface

- Awkward configuration process

- Time required to make thing thing work - PRICELESS

------------

Total: $328

 

 

Apex Lite - $369:

- Display

- 8 controllable outlets

- pH Probe. 2 pH probes can be hooked up.

- Temp Probe

- Cables

- Internet/Web interface

- 8 I/O ports for ATO switches and so on.

- Web/iPhone App/Display to change configuration

- Much better interface/packaging

- 2 Float switches - $10

---

Total: $379

 

Difference is only $50 and at the end of the day you end up with a $328 Arduino. For that much money and for the amount of effort you actually need to put in to make this thing work, I would just buy Arduino and build it all myself, if i wanted that level of DIY.

 

Every story about Reef Angel is always followed with "but I had trouble getting X to work so I had to contact support and they logged into my computer remotely and configured it for me" or something of that nature.

[alaskan84]

I'll throw my experience out there. I have a RLE on my 120 gallon, a RKE on my 28 gallon, and a RKL on my 5 gallon at work. All have been 100% set and forget since i have gotten them. I have them controlling temp, lights, flow and monitor PH. I really didnt do alot of reading on the options, but the point is they have been set and forget. Its really nice to have the reliability. On another note, I would be interested in the reef angel due to its open source base, I just didnt/havent gone that route yet. I did get an old aqua jr with my 120 gallon purchase but never bothered setting it up...bleh serial connections

 

 

 

Every story about Reef Angel is always followed with "but I had trouble getting X to work so I had to contact support and they logged into my computer remotely and configured it for me" or something of that nature.

 

 

 

--thats interesting they have that level of support....is it standard for them to start a remote support session for some configuration issues? If so, that would be a majorhuge plus for Reef Angel

[Chrisl1976]

OK, Lets do it. But lets not compare apples to oranges.

 

Reef Angel is $219

- Head Unit

- 8 plug Relay Box

- PH Probe

- Waterproof Temperature Sensor

- 2x Float Switch

- NO INTERNET / NO WEB INTERFACE - additional $109 module, still gives you no web interface

- Awkward configuration process

- Time required to make thing thing work - PRICELESS

------------

Total: $328

 

 

Apex Lite - $369:

- Display

- 8 controllable outlets

- pH Probe. 2 pH probes can be hooked up.

- Temp Probe

- Cables

- Internet/Web interface

- 8 I/O ports for ATO switches and so on.

- Web/iPhone App/Display to change configuration

- Much better interface/packaging

- 2 Float switches - $10

---

Total: $379

 

Difference is only $50 and at the end of the day you end up with a $328 Arduino. For that much money and for the amount of effort you actually need to put in to make this thing work, I would just buy Arduino and build it all myself, if i wanted that level of DIY.

 

Every story about Reef Angel is always followed with "but I had trouble getting X to work so I had to contact support and they logged into my computer remotely and configured it for me" or something of that nature.

 

Dont forget $45 for the Neptune PH probe which according to the "What is in the box" is not in the box.

 

As far as I have read, the RA is wireless (wi-fi) capable for $109? Pretty much assuming it works since I do believe I did see Iphone App mentioned, but did not really read into it since I dont have an Iphone.

 

Has Apex finally come out with a wifi module? Didn't see that in the price list to match the RA wifi module.

 

I'm just saying that RA and even RKL have base price stock units where as Apex forces you to purchase upfront a function you may never use. Its kind of like being forced to buy a car with DVD monitor headrests for $1000 even if you never plan on watching a movie in your car. Honestly, as nice an idea net capability is, I'd most likely never use it for my 28 gallon. I guess I'm not that obsessed with having to be able to check on my tank 24/7, anywhere in the world. If the emergency systems are in place on the controller, that is good enough to me. I prefer to spend that $100 price increase on corals and fish. That is just me.

[solefald]

Dont forget $45 for the Neptune PH probe which according to the "What is in the box" is not in the box.

 

As far as I have read, the RA is wireless (wi-fi) capable for $109? Pretty much assuming it works since I do believe I did see Iphone App mentioned, but did not really read into it since I dont have an Iphone.

 

Has Apex finally come out with a wifi module? Didn't see that in the price list to match the RA wifi module.

 

looks like a mistake on Marine Depot site. Apex Lite DOES come with pH proble, and even if it did not, their lab grade probe is only $22. Not sure where you got $49 from.

 

You can argue with me all you want, but I still do not see how Reef Angel is any better than RKE/L or Apex. It's the same thing in a different package but it sure seem like a b*tch to use.

[Salty_Snack]

Actually, I bought my apex lite from marinedepot a couple of months ago and did not get a ph probe. No problem though since I don't automatically dose kalk so ph is not something I want to monitor. I've never tested the ph of my tank and had it be outside of the optimal range.

[metrokat]

So we have tons of Apex questions answered Getting back to RKL. How do you program it? From the display correct? Which is a pain to use is the general opinion here?

[solefald]

So we have tons of Apex questions answered Getting back to RKL. How do you program it? From the display correct? Which is a pain to use is the general opinion here?

 

Either using buttons on the display or using MyReef software (Windows only. No Mac version)

Again, shows how disconnected from reality DA is. I spent couple of years working for a university

and now back in the "real world" working for a fortune 500 company. Macs are now a majority. Hands down.

 

http://www.digitalaquatics.com/news/myReef2

[halcyonism]

Equipment arguments always crack me up. Seems like at least once a month something like this comes up; Reef Keeper vs Apex, Tunze vs Vortech and so on. Bottom line is that you need to dig in a do some research to find out which product or brand will work for you. Internet forums are not always a great way to gather information as we tend to be very band loyal and will argue about which is better to no ends. Read the manufacturer's web site, read their support forums, figure out exactly what you want the product to do for you now and in the future and take everything you read on forums with a grain of salt. For every person that complains on the internet there are hundreds of people that are perfectly happy with the product and will never post a thing.

 

Just my two cents.

[banshee]

Equipment arguments always crack me up. Seems like at least once a month something like this comes up; Reef Keeper vs Apex, Tunze vs Vortech and so on. Bottom line is that you need to dig in a do some research to find out which product or brand will work for you. Internet forums are not always a great way to gather information as we tend to be very band loyal and will argue about which is better to no ends. Read the manufacturer's web site, read their support forums, figure out exactly what you want the product to do for you now and in the future and take everything you read on forums with a grain of salt. For every person that complains on the internet there are hundreds of people that are perfectly happy with the product and will never post a thing.

 

Just my two cents.

 

But finding out WHY people like something or don't like a product IS research. Hearing people say "I hate the Reef Angel because the display is huge" or "The RKL is super hard to program" gives me insight the website won't. DA is not going to advertise that the RKL has programming issues, etc. I found it hard to even understand what's in the box with all of these products so getting a real life assessment and break down from other reefers is a huge help.

[alaskan84]

Reef Keepers are soo simple to program. I dont use the display to program, I use the MyReef software. luckily the "Real World" is still totally PC and not MAC. Major banking institutions and most business related entities are all using PC's. I work for a school district and sure we are all mac, but we are feeling the pains of trying to wedge a consumer device into an enterprise enviroment...enough of that. If you have mac and want to use the reefkeeper software, use parallels or fusion or whatever your choice is to get windows on the mac. The GUI of the myreef software is wonderful and does not really have a learning curve at all. I have noticed a couple slight bugs such as modules not always showing up when plugged into the laptop, but simply replugging in the specific module always woke it back up.

[Deckoz2302]

Lol. There is no argument - RA puts every other controller to shame. Know why? Cause you can't make your own modules for an Neptune or a RK and you can't make them do whatever you want because you can't write your own code for them...and no an RA setup with exactly the same features will not cost you more..however one may have a larger headache because they never learned to code c++. With arduino possibilities are endless. With the other controllers...it stops where the manufacturer chooses.

 

As far as the display on the RA being large. Guess what? There's a secondary touchscreen display being made...or you could just use the IOS or android app...and have the display hidden..derp

 

For all the haters...yea I need an equipment panel get over it

 

No I had not calibrated salinity or PH yet...don't hate on the readout

 

 

[Chrisl1976]

looks like a mistake on Marine Depot site. Apex Lite DOES come with pH proble, and even if it did not, their lab grade probe is only $22. Not sure where you got $49 from.

 

No, the $360 base packages does not include the PH probe on any website I have found. Even Neptunes website does not show it included.

 

Premium Aquatic PH probe

 

$45 for the standard probe----$69 for the lab grade

 

It may take more understanding to program, which SOME people may not want to learn which is why it is the DIY side of this hobby.

 

 

I started a Reef Angel post a couple days ago and have found some very nice information on it from a few users. Seems like it is pretty versatile

.

[halcyonism]

But finding out WHY people like something or don't like a product IS research. Hearing people say "I hate the Reef Angel because the display is huge" or "The RKL is super hard to program" gives me insight the website won't. DA is not going to advertise that the RKL has programming issues, etc. I found it hard to even understand what's in the box with all of these products so getting a real life assessment and break down from other reefers is a huge help.

 

Even on this thread you have two schools of people; some that say the RKL is easy to program and some that say it is difficult. Which do you believe? Every person is going to have a different experience with any given product. I guess that was the point I was trying to get across.

 

After lots of researching, I myself, decided to start out with the RKL basic model, as all I wanted to accomplish at this time was control my heaters. For $110 or so you get a display, a power bar with 4 outlets and a temperature probe. Installing and programing everything took ~30 minutes and I found it to be quite simple. I love the real time information on the display and still have the option to connect the unit to my PC which I plan to do in the near future. My next purchase will be an SL2 which allows the addition of a PH and salinity probe and two switches for auto top off and skimmer over flow.

 

I would advise browsing around the forums on Digital Aquatics own site, tons of information there that may help you make your decision. Bulk Reef Supply's site was also a nice help as they outline what each module does and what you need or don't need to perform a given function.

[solefald]

simple "Reef Keeper vs. Apex" google search brings up a ton of results.

All of these links are from the first page of search results.

 

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2029200

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2007005

 

http://web1.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2090483

 

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/just-s...reefkeeper.html

 

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/best-...pex-165440.html

 

http://indmas.org/main/index.php?/topic/83...keeper-vs-apex/

 

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711947

[metrokat]

Equipment arguments always crack me up. Seems like at least once a month something like this comes up; Reef Keeper vs Apex, Tunze vs Vortech and so on. Bottom line is that you need to dig in a do some research to find out which product or brand will work for you. Internet forums are not always a great way to gather information as we tend to be very band loyal and will argue about which is better to no ends. Read the manufacturer's web site, read their support forums, figure out exactly what you want the product to do for you now and in the future and take everything you read on forums with a grain of salt. For every person that complains on the internet there are hundreds of people that are perfectly happy with the product and will never post a thing.

 

Just my two cents.

You're right here. If I knew a lick of code I would buy RA. But I have a Mac daddy and RKL will not work for me. The functionality of it is perfect, if I can get a friend to program it for me I would do it, 100$ for RKL base model

vs 150 plus 99 for a router for Apex is money saved towards a vortech for me.

 

Just like internet forums are brand loyal, manufacturers websites are self promoting.

[solefald]

The post quoted below (emphasis is mine) was posted a few minutes ago into the RA thread and proves my point perfectly. Yep, you saved $100 buying an RA and then you spent DAYS trying to get someone on a forum to configure the most basic of things for you.

 

I am not trying to knock open source. I am a Linux sysadmin since 1996, RedHat 3.0 days. I love open source, but what good does open source controller is for you, if you have no idea ho to program the damn thing???

 

 

For example, I've been working with Roberto on RA forum for the past days to program the LED lights, temp sensors & fans for my 2x8Gal.

 

He helped me create a smooth sunrise-daytime-sunset on opposite schedule and temp controlled cooling for my LEDs.

 

Next, I'll ask for more help in creating a custom RA menu.

[Deckoz2302]

You apparently missed the memo about RAGen.

 

And c++ really isn't that hard lol half of the libraries you would ever need are written for you. You just reference them, and RAGen takes care of all of that. Its stepping outside of the box that a regular controller wouldn't do that takes custom code. For example: full year sun phase, custom main screen, custom menu & operations, using float switches for something other then ato, dosing based off ph. But everything rk or apex does is as easy as opening RAGen and clicking what you want featured and it spits out code you upload.

[metrokat]

I <3 Decoz. Even if I don't understand a word he just said.

Who needs protection on this thread, I brought my shoes.

[solefald]

You apparently missed the memo about RAGen.

 

And c++ really isn't that hard lol half of the libraries you would ever need are written for you. You just reference them, and RAGen takes care of all of that. Its stepping outside of the box that a regular controller wouldn't do that takes custom code. For example: full year sun phase, custom main screen, custom menu & operations, using float switches for something other then ato, dosing based off ph. But everything rk or apex does is as easy as opening RAGen and clicking what you want featured and it spits out code you upload.

 

C++ is not hard? hahah. Tell this to the dude who saved $100 and then spent days on a forum trying to figure out how to make his RA work. Oh wait... RAGgen was supposed to make it easy for him... except that it didn't!

Also tell banshee that she needs to learn some C++ if she wants to setup her RA.

 

And everything you listed is available in Apex.

Custom menus/main screen? Check

Full year sun phase? Check

Float switches to something else? Check

Dosing based on pH? Check

 

Sorry, but your RA is not all that special. It does exact same thing that Apex does.

RA had to get their ideas somewhere.... and they got them from the controllers that were on the market before them. Building custom modules? Sure, i give you that. But show me more than 3 people on this forum who will want to build their own module... that is not available already.

[Deckoz2302]

I brought my knife edged stiletto

Ftfy

[solefald]

Who needs protection on this thread, I brought my shoes.

 

these?

 

[Deckoz2302]

Hey .....guess what? Your avatar looks like Jesus.

[solefald]

Touché