Jarquarium Challenge

[Whys]

Pure genius, Whys didnt I think of it first?!?!

 

©2011 Bat #### Crazy -All Rights Reserved.

 

BTW, my anemones are still quite happy in my Jarquariums, and I cannot prove this..........or can I.........

 

So unnecessarily hurtful. But I forgive you because I don't question the truthfulness of your work here. And your work here is amazing. So you can say what ever you want about me. Ain't that crazy?

 

Also, since you brought it up, I'm not done with that thread, or trying to save lives. But I thank you for revealing yourself. It tells me what it is I seek to know.

 

I'll update your photos in the show case soon. You haven't inspired me to do anything right away.

[AquaticEngineer]

So unnecessarily hurtful. But I forgive you because I don't question the truthfulness of your work here. And your work here is amazing. So you can say what ever you want about me. Ain't that crazy?

 

Also, since you brought it up, I'm not done with that thread, or trying to save lives. But I thank you for revealing yourself. It tells me what it is I seek to know.

 

I'll update your photos in the show case soon. You haven't inspired me to do anything right away.

 

I apologize, I was feeling a bit sarcastic and A-hole-ish when I wrote that

 

If you need any Moonglow Anemones or anything for what ever idea it is you are working on just let me know. I got em in a bunch of different colors and and you can pick em up HERE

[Whys]

his extreme pressure on you to "substantiate" your claims (and obviously divulge methodology) didn't really make sense... i mean, who cares? it's a discussion thread, not a competition.

Actually, it's a fact finding thread. That means the truth matters a great deal. And no, that doesn't necessarily make it a competition. In fact, I'd rather it wasn't. But to each their own.

 

Allow me to make a point of it. I will do what ever is my power to either legitimize or debunk the claims that are made here. How is offering someone $5000 dollars to let their jar sit on my shelf for 5 months count as "extreme pressure"? And as I've said -- no I won't stop saying it -- if Pj believe's his jar is worth more than that, then we will all see it on store shelves shortly. So in actually, I've created no pressure. I'm simply calling them as I see them. If Pj would rather cling to his lie, then that his issue. For my own part, I'm ignoring him, along with his friends that specifically came into this thread to create obfuscation. Is that you Mr. Anderson? Lets hope not.

[AquaticEngineer]

You can have my jar for $5000, and its already been sitting on my window sill for almost 5 months

[Whys]

You can have my jar for $5000, and its already been sitting on my window sill for almost 5 months

Nah... I believe you.

 

Seriously tho, I might be willing to offer you something to verify your results at some point, but I doubt you actually need my help for that. You appear to be well on your way to ground breaking success. I look forward to your continued research.

 

Incidentally, new approach! I've posted the following to the top of the showcase.

 

The intention of this showcase is to present factual results that can be duplicated or verified. Claims posted elsewhere in this thread are largely beyond my control. It is up to the individual to decide for themselves what they do and don't believe, but any claim without a showcase entry to support it, should be questioned and taken with extreme skepticism.

It makes itself pretty clear and leaves the rest of you to do as you will. If at any time any of you believe I've judged an entry incorrectly, then please make your case to me in private.

 

Thank you, and good night! I have other projects that need updating. Peace all.

[brandon429]

Until reading a post from Albert in the general forum id never seen anyone do a jarquarium for ten years, its in there

 

Google

Jay hemdal micro ecosystems

2008

The glass 5 gallon jug looks like crap but its certainly sealed that's for sure. A decade is a long time

 

 

Those are nice but I'm more impressed by someone adapting formerly circulated water column inverts to still waters, I like to see classic reef life tested for adaptivity. The ecosystems that are algae water and brown substrate from years of decay just look too bad IMO

 

But you get shrimp or macro motile life to remain viable that long and we got something

 

Aquatic engineer if you will keep those anemones indefinitely and not take the bowls down you'd have the next upgrade of a still ecosystem, first long term anemone/cnidarian run that's pretty slick.

[brandon429]

I don't find feeding of a jarquarium as cheating

 

Nature gets input, bugs fall into a pond etc and these tanks are too small to sustain higher order life without protein input

 

 

Look at the article how the non protein input vessels + light resulted always in the same green water reduced macro life tank.

 

 

Placing a couple mysis right in the kisser of an anemone is no cheat, its still quite an accomplishment to handle nitrogenous waste, oxygenation (especially at night) and temperature/salinity constants.

Edited September 18, 2012 by brandon429

[reeforreefoutyou]

...so I am torn after reading this thread. On one hand I think the idea of these tanks is cool and I really wish that they were a viable way to reef, but Im pretty sure all of you know better. Even the largest systems in public aquariums, aquaculture facilities, and home reefs run into big problems after only a few years, and they are meticulously maintained.

 

These tiny tanks with no respiration and no flow break some pretty big biological rules. Everwhere that marine life exists, there is flow. Tidepools get it twice a day.All sessile life depends on it to eat and breathe. The wastes are removed in some form or another and fresh oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, amino acids, iodine, (and on and on), are constantly replenished with the currents.

 

In these closed systems, all of the nutrients are metabolised by the animals which break them down and discard the chemicals they don't need as waste. These waste materials dont magically turn back into nutrients as they are simpler compounds. But as I said before, you all knew that already.

 

My point is that our hobby is already an ethical grey area and what you are doing is cruel. Heck, even the concentration camps of WWII had bathrooms seperated from the living quarters with sewers that carried away the waste. You don't wanna be a pico-Hitler do you?

 

You think that what you are doing is important? At best you have a lab rat scenario going, but without the rigors of the scientific method, the considerable lab equipment, and the purpose of the greater good (entertainment doesn't count!).

 

I truly wish i could have a little jar of happy corals on my dashboard but it just aint gonna happen. Most of the original ecoshperes die in the first year and the ones that survive barely do so.

 

So, Pico-Hitler, you say what you do is important, you talk about saving lives, why don't you take that 5k you have laying around and buy an old school bus that is large enough to accomodate your ego. Then drive it off a cliff. ---suckit losers

[AquaticEngineer]

So, Pico-Hitler, you say what you do is important, you talk about saving lives, why don't you take that 5k you have laying around and buy an old school bus that is large enough to accomodate your ego. Then drive it off a cliff. ---suckit losers

 

LOL. I am totally running a tigriopus and moonglow anemone concentration camp.

 

I actually just upgraded my shot glass tank to a wine glass (my wife was pissed)

[brandon429]

Reef

 

 

they said pico reefs were unstable but acropora grows in them

the still jars can work, somehow.

 

I agree with the post about needing nutrient input, that's what I think is required for cnidarian biotopes, but there is circulation in a still tank accomplishing the exchanges you are concerned about. some shrimp make decent movement in an otherwise still tank...

 

there are also areas on the reef where water collects in pockets of lr abutments above water and is not refreshed until big storms or rain change things up...to me these biotopes are similar to that. its time to move past just algae and shrimp I think, some anems can do it

Edited September 21, 2012 by brandon429

[gulfsurfer101]

I've seen where people have had long term success using an air stone and small pump for circulation. If I run into trouble I may add one down the line. I'm using a pickle jar that holds any where from a gallon to a gallon and a half. It'll hold some macro and a few nems I found along the packery channel jetties during low tide. They are indestructible, I found one alive in my 20l sump I had after I tore down my 40br. The water it was in was poopoo brown, stagnant for over two months and in my garage reaching temps into the 100's daily. I think they're the perfect candidate for this project.

I'll post pics of the nem's after the water clears overnight.

Edited September 22, 2012 by gulfsurfer101

[herranton]

You don't wanna be a pico-Hitler do you?

 

Maybe. Why do you ask?

 

 

 

Update on my jars...

 

Still the same, well sorta. The macro and fuzzy algae was kinda taking over so I turned the light on for a longer duration every day. It took about a month for me to realize that I couldn't figure out how to work the timer and I finally made the photo-period shorter. Algae went nuts. I haven't checked on them since. Shrimp were fine last time I checked. Maybe I will take pictures later but Hitler never let out pictures of Auschwitz, so maybe no pics.

[Whys]

So, Pico-Hitler, you say what you do is important, you talk about saving lives, why don't you take that 5k you have laying around and buy an old school bus that is large enough to accomodate your ego.

 

First of all, I don't say what I do is so important. If you'll notice, I posted the first wipeout, and admit it with a smile. But I do believe that what others do here, can be important.

 

Too many people here without jars and yet so much to say.

 

herranton, thanks for the updates.

gulfsurfer101, good to have you aboard! I'll try to add your entry to the showcase soon.

[derf9h]

Anyone entertained the idea of putting an aqua-lifter into one of these systems for a small amount of flow? you could easily epoxy two air lines (one high and one low) into the side of the jar and just recirculate the tank water and still have it be sealed 100%.

 

Just a thought...

[1.0reef]

So, Pico-Hitler, you say what you do is important, you talk about saving lives, why don't you take that 5k you have laying around and buy an old school bus that is large enough to accomodate your ego. Then drive it off a cliff. ---suckit losers

GTFO

Now

[herranton]

I know how much everyone likes super large pics instead of pics that would be more appropriately sized, so here we go:

 

Jar 1

 

 

Jar 2, 3rd pic is of the scum on the water surface. It appears that the cheato in jar 1 does a better job than the hair algae in jar 2 at keeping stuff clean. <-purely unscientific observation

 

[gulfsurfer101]

My first attempt was a fail of epic proportion so I decided to give it another try without the sealed lid. I threw the first jar in the dumpster cause it turned black and smelled like a bag of @$$#*!es! The next jar is much more smaller, a few oz's of livesand, some rubble, a warty nem, a pod, a snail and two zoa polyps, and all the macro that ends up on my power head in my 5.5 Its been sitting on my windowsill for about a week. I'm topping off with the same RO water for my 5.5

[MeepNand]

Gulfsurfer, your thing looks nice cause of the red colored macro. I just hope it stays that way.

[AquaticEngineer]

I've been keeping a pair of moonglow anemones (Anthopleura artemisia) in a 16 oz wine glass on my window sill now for almost a year. I just upped the ante and added 3 more into it and cleaned out the algae to see how the original two have faired and they are still kicking.

 

Heres the initial pictures, 24 hours after cleaning and adding the more anemones.

 

 

 

The original two anemones have been in my house with no AC in Oregon for almost a year now. Temperatures average 65-70 in the house, with highs during the summer reaching into mid 90's for several days and lows into the upper 50's when I left on vacation and turned the heat off. Only thing done for the last 11 months has been top off from the small amount of evaporation and an occasional feeding of a single mysis shrimp per anemone.

 

This time I decided to add a small hermit crab and see how long he'll last in there. Possible additions in the future may be Chitons or other high intertidal invertebrates. But for now, I'm going to see how long 5 anemones and a hermit crab will last in 16 ounces of room temperature saltwater.

 

Phase 2 BEGIN!!

[MeepNand]

Man, that's like a tiny tidepool! But without flow.

How are you filtering it?

[AquaticEngineer]

Man, that's like a tiny tidepool! But without flow.

How are you filtering it?

Just algae and sunlight I might start doing small water changes but I'm just letting it sit and find its equalibrium for now.

[Whys]

Happy New Year everyone!

Totally stoked and amazed by all of you!


Herranton, glad to see you're having luck with the cheato. I definitely want to try it in my next jar. Not that Pat isn't attractive in green.

Gulfsurfer, I haven't forgotten you! Love what you're doing and I'll add you to the showcase tonight.

AquaticEngineer, 'nuff said.

I'll go poke the others and see if they have any updates. In the mean time...



The remaining shrimp in my ecosphere has expired. It actually died over the summer and I suspected it was a combination of age and high temperatures. But then I did something I hadn't done in years.

I gave the sphere a swirl, and while I may no longer have shrimpy's company, I do now have a snow globe!



What is all that crap? Yep!

Now I'm not so convinced that it was age and temp. Looks more like the biological process completely broke down. Which is good. I already have too much blood on my hands.

 

So it seems I am completely jarless. I'll have to fix that!

 

[gulfsurfer101]

I'm out, I underestimated the heat factor here in south Texas even in the winter. I came home to a nuked jar a few weeks ago. I may try it againand light it with the spill over lighting from my fuge.

[Whys]

Not singling anyone out, just noticing as a matter of course...

 

People aren't giving updates because their jar degenerates. ˙spɹɐʍʞɔɐq sı sıɥʇ The only way new participants can hope to start a step ahead is by reading the details of our "failures." None of us are going to pull a rabbit out of our hat here. Not even AquaticEngineer who admits to being at this for over a year. Documentation of degeneration is in fact the way forward.

 

Please document to the bitter end. You will not be judged a failure, but rather, appreciated for the valuable insights you provide. Thank you.

[decal]

I've been keeping a pair of moonglow anemones (Anthopleura artemisia) in a 16 oz wine glass on my window sill now for almost a year. I just upped the ante and added 3 more into it and cleaned out the algae to see how the original two have faired and they are still kicking.

 

Heres the initial pictures, 24 hours after cleaning and adding the more anemones.

 

 

 

The original two anemones have been in my house with no AC in Oregon for almost a year now. Temperatures average 65-70 in the house, with highs during the summer reaching into mid 90's for several days and lows into the upper 50's when I left on vacation and turned the heat off. Only thing done for the last 11 months has been top off from the small amount of evaporation and an occasional feeding of a single mysis shrimp per anemone.

 

This time I decided to add a small hermit crab and see how long he'll last in there. Possible additions in the future may be Chitons or other high intertidal invertebrates. But for now, I'm going to see how long 5 anemones and a hermit crab will last in 16 ounces of room temperature saltwater.

 

Phase 2 BEGIN!!

 

This is frackin' amazing. Big props dude. I'll probably get some of these guys from you in the near future to make a similar setup with my warath and local warty nems.