Whats wrong with this complete kit?

[Lee Van Reef]

I would say the max for 6" depth would be the 24pcs kit. 36 seems a little overkill for those dimensions. I am doing a 36pcs kit on my 24x24x12 frag tank. With the 24pcs you could always dim.

 

I just got the kit in yesterday (2 days early woot!!) and should have it built by tonight. I will post pics when I am done.

Those pics better be coming soon. lol

[bjbass]

I would say the max for 6" depth would be the 24pcs kit. 36 seems a little overkill for those dimensions. I am doing a 36pcs kit on my 24x24x12 frag tank. With the 24pcs you could always dim.

 

I just got the kit in yesterday (2 days early woot!!) and should have it built by tonight. I will post pics when I am done.

 

Anxiously awaiting the results/pictures. I am deciding between this kit and nanocustoms in the next few days. I would prefer this kit due to pricing.

 

Which kit would be good for a BC14?

[LeslieAnn]

There is a whole hell of a lot more going on inside of a driver than that.

B.S.

It's an AC to DC converter and a resistor to kill off amperage.

 

Higher end models may have a bit of voltage regulation, something dimmables have as well, but don't kid yourself thinking there is something special about a basic driver. Dimmable has a bit more, but it's nothing as complicated as even an mp3 player.

 

Open up an LED flashlight.

 

 

 

 

By the way, my kit shipped yesterday and should leave Hong Kong today.

[basser1]

By the way, my kit shipped yesterday and should leave Hong Kong today.

 

 

Hopefully it's not on that "slow boat form China"!

[Sahin]

Hopefully it's not on that "slow boat form China"!

 

Honestly, there are times when I have recieved items from China to England faster than when I ordered from within the UK! Many times I have found that I get items from China within a week and half of ordering.

[herranton]

I think that it is funny that everyone is getting worked up over Solidstate's reply. Especially the parts about "buying American". He clearly states that he is in China(or at least Asia) and probably knows a thing or two about crappy Chinese products.

 

B.S.

It's an AC to DC converter and a resistor to kill off amperage.

 

Higher end models may have a bit of voltage regulation, something dimmables have as well, but don't kid yourself thinking there is something special about a basic driver. Dimmable has a bit more, but it's nothing as complicated as even an mp3 player.

 

Open up an LED flashlight.

Comparing LED drivers to cell phone chargers is a little simplistic. It would be like comparing a Vespa to a sports car. They may be about the same thing but the quality drivers are significantly more expensive to produce. I just purchased a power supply for and amplifier that I am building and the thing cost over $150. If it was "the same as a cell phone charger" I just got ripped off. Quality electronics cost money. You will see that reputable companies like Nanotuners use very high quality components. I'm sure if they could just substitute a cell phone charger, they would. Furthermore, iirc, a cell phone charger will change current based on load, and led driver doesn't do this. That's the whole point. An LED driver varies the voltage to keep the current steady, and last I checked, a resister wont do this.. A good smps is expensive and takes a bit of skill to design.

[mpc]

I will just throw in some of my thoughts (feel free to ignore).

 

First of all two sayings:

1) A cheap person pays twice.

2) There was a writing on the wall of a shed... "Penis".... I opened the door but to my surprise I found firewood.

 

Ok now some thoughts:

The heatsink is quite small for that amount of LEDs. The provided fan might help but I wouldn't run those LEDs without a fan. So we have saved a buck on heatsink.

LEDs - they state it is bridgelux... Are you sure those are bridgelux LEDs? How can you tell? To me those presented in the image look just the same as ones I bought from ebay... Satisled also provides similar looking ones and they do not state it is bridgelux. That being said - when I compare side by side Cree with such ebay product I can clearly see how dimm actually is ebay version. That means it less efficient - produces more heat than the "known" brands. The satisled LEDs tho are fully worth the price. So I wouldn't be very upset.

Next up, drivers. You might care or you might not care but what is the efficiency of the driver? What is the MTBF of this driver? And what about power factor? When you buy known brand they provide what is called a datasheet where all these and other parameters are provided so you can decide are you OK with the product or should you look for a better one. This is like buying a cat in a sack.

 

I am not saying that this kit is crap only you get what you pay for.

 

B.S.

It's an AC to DC converter and a resistor to kill off amperage.

It is not that simple. It is most likely switch mode power converter and there are many things that might go wrong. With constant resistor you can't controll 12-20 LEDs without affecting the max current. Tho the switch mode power converters can also be built in many different ways using good quality chips or also simple (sometimes unreliable) solutions. It is like PC power supplies - you can get some noname and some I don't know corsair or cooler master. When you take them in hand you can say which is which. The corsair will be 3 times heavier. Gygygy... Both work... Only corsair gives 5 year warranty

[herranton]

Hey, I like coolermaster.....

 

 

edit

REading comprehention ftl

 

spelling too

[LeslieAnn]

I will just throw in some of my thoughts (feel free to ignore).

 

First of all two sayings:

1) A cheap person pays twice.

2) There was a writing on the wall of a shed... "Penis".... I opened the door but to my surprise I found firewood.

 

Ok now some thoughts:

The heatsink is quite small for that amount of LEDs. The provided fan might help but I wouldn't run those LEDs without a fan. So we have saved a buck on heatsink.

LEDs - they state it is bridgelux... Are you sure those are bridgelux LEDs? How can you tell? To me those presented in the image look just the same as ones I bought from ebay... Satisled also provides similar looking ones and they do not state it is bridgelux. That being said - when I compare side by side Cree with such ebay product I can clearly see how dimm actually is ebay version. That means it less efficient - produces more heat than the "known" brands. The satisled LEDs tho are fully worth the price. So I wouldn't be very upset.

Next up, drivers. You might care or you might not care but what is the efficiency of the driver? What is the MTBF of this driver? And what about power factor? When you buy known brand they provide what is called a datasheet where all these and other parameters are provided so you can decide are you OK with the product or should you look for a better one. This is like buying a cat in a sack.

 

I am not saying that this kit is crap only you get what you pay for.

 

 

It is not that simple. It is most likely switch mode power converter and there are many things that might go wrong. With constant resistor you can't controll 12-20 LEDs without affecting the max current. Tho the switch mode power converters can also be built in many different ways using good quality chips or also simple (sometimes unreliable) solutions. It is like PC power supplies - you can get some noname and some I don't know corsair or cooler master. When you take them in hand you can say which is which. The corsair will be 3 times heavier. Gygygy... Both work... Only corsair gives 5 year warranty

Let me re-state what I said earlier, I am in no way stating these will be fantastic, let's be realistic here. On the other hand...

 

 

Seriously?

Heatsink size is silly, I doubt these are high quality heatsinks, but I think some people put way too much emhasis on a lot of minor details. I see people all the time freaking out over computer processors "OMG I HIT 60C!" And your max is 90c, what's the problem. The Phillips LED's on my tank now have the heatsink built into them. I will bet these have just as much or more sq. inch of heat sink.

 

 

"Are you sure those are bridgelux LEDs? How can you tell?" How can you tell they aren't? How do you know if ANY supplier is giving yo want they claim? Sorry, but you are just looking for ways to destroy this before you even give it a chance aren't you.

 

You are basing your idea of strength on a third party picture. Pictures vary from camera to camera, computer to computer, person to person. You have to be joking?

 

 

 

 

Yes, I get the PSU comparison, however we aren't talking about a computer where less than a .1v makes or breaks a something. We are talking about an LED with .3v or more or leeway in a low amp, low voltage situation. Again, yes, there are differences, but you are blowing it way out of proportion.

 

I have a $150 750 watt power supply in my computer. My entire LED system is $70 shipped and consumes about 30 watts. If my cheap LED driver blows and destroys everything, worst case, I'm out $70. If my computer PSU blows and destroys everything, I'm out thousands.

 

Oh, and while you rag on cheap psu's, how many are out there capably running computers? Bestec, which is highly trashed, is sitting in hundreds of thousands of systems happily chugging away. Would I trust my high end system to it? HECK NO! Would I put one in a cheap throw away computer, sure why not. I can point you to 50 customers perfectly happy with them in their computer.

 

This isn't a super high performance lighting system that will destroy thousands of dollars of equipment and lose tons of information. It's a cheap, low voltage system, lighting a tank of water. Heck, worse comes to worse, I rotate my tank and open the curtains and use natural sunlight.

 

If you want to spend $500 on lighting tank, be my guest.

 

 

And yes, it really is that simple. The blue lights I am currently using are meant for a car. They wire directly into a cars 12-13v system, what electronics do they use? One resister per diode. Amazing right? I mean, OMG that could totally just fall apart and create all sorts of havoc with the lights and the car. It needs to have a micro processor, switching, and voltage regulation and.... No.

[herranton]

The point is, your description of an led driver is completely inaccurate. It is not the same as a cell phone charger. That is all.

 

I would buy one of these cheap kits if I needed it, I have referred people to this thread. But led drivers are not a

"AC to DC converter and a resistor to kill off amperage"

[LeslieAnn]

I think that it is funny that everyone is getting worked up over Solidstate's reply. Especially the parts about "buying American". He clearly states that he is in China(or at least Asia) and probably knows a thing or two about crappy Chinese products.

 

 

Comparing LED drivers to cell phone chargers is a little simplistic. It would be like comparing a Vespa to a sports car. They may be about the same thing but the quality drivers are significantly more expensive to produce. I just purchased a power supply for and amplifier that I am building and the thing cost over $150. If it was "the same as a cell phone charger" I just got ripped off. Quality electronics cost money. You will see that reputable companies like Nanotuners use very high quality components. I'm sure if they could just substitute a cell phone charger, they would. Furthermore, iirc, a cell phone charger will change current based on load, and led driver doesn't do this. That's the whole point. An LED driver varies the voltage to keep the current steady, and last I checked, a resister wont do this.. A good smps is expensive and takes a bit of skill to design.

I'm worked up because he dismissed them with no knowledge of them.

 

As for the comparison, your amp power supply has much tighter tolerances and probably puts out more than just one voltage.

 

See what I wrote about the car LEDS above. They operate from 12-13volts and you can use a wall wart for them. Just like all LEDS's they have an operating range. The problem is that not all electronics have such a forgiving range of operation. Some of the parts in your amp are probably that way, just as a computer isn't as tolerant.

 

The point is, your description of an led driver is completely inaccurate. It is not the same as a cell phone charger. That is all.

 

I would buy one of these cheap kits if I needed it, I have referred people to this thread. But led drivers are not a

"AC to DC converter and a resistor to kill off amperage"

Funny, since I have powered LED's and things with wall warts before.

 

So long as your amps and volts are within range, they will work.

And I said basically, I didn't say that was all there was in there. And how much do those components actually cost? Pennies when bought in bulk. They aren't precision electronics.

[bjbass]

Just finished the details on mine, 4white, 3 blue, dimmable, custom kit. Just waiting on a price plus shipping now.

 

These guys are great to work with.

I can't speak for the quality or anything, but their communication is great and they will gladly setup any kit you want it seems.

 

What price did you get on that? How much was shipping?

[mpc]

For what I know the title of this was "What is wrong with this kit" (the underlying thought being - why it is so cheap). And it was not started by you Mrs LeslieAnn so please don't get angry. I am speaking generally and not targeting specifically you.

 

You just have a different approach to life.

Cheers!

[herranton]

t.

 

 

Funny, since I have powered LED's and things with wall warts before.

 

So long as your amps and volts are within range, they will work.

And I said basically, I didn't say that was all there was in there. And how much do those components actually cost? Pennies when bought in bulk. They aren't precision electronics.

Of course you can power those leds with a wall wart. They probably have resistors on board that they are attached too. Neanderthalman and coolwaters had arrays like that over their reefs 5 years ago. Actually, the way nm designed it, you didn't even need the resistors, they really just burn up power and waste it as heat anyway. The problem with the wall wart and resister solution is that it is hard on the leds and you will burn them up much sooner. There output will drop to probably 70 percent within a year and 40-50 percent within two. Check out NMs thread and read it, it might take a couple of days, but if you want to advocate using leds this way, he has hard numbers to report.

 

My problem is that you are basically stating that drivers are overpriced and worthless. Or, as I quoted before, "AC to DC converter and a resistor to kill off amperage". That is simply not true. Just like your ps on your computer, some leds and some arrays need a high quality power supply. If it was as simple as you state it to be, There would be lots of DIY threads everywhere about drivers. Even in bulk, the prices on some of the components in a driver are expensive. Considerably more than penny's. Buck pucks, meanwells, and those really expensive things from nanotuners are worth the money if you want a quality led array. They cannot be replaced by a wall wart. You will kill your leds prematurely because it cannot regulate the current well enough for high power leds your ebay #### isn't a good example

[Nightstar]

For what I know the title of this was "What is wrong with this kit" (the underlying thought being - why it is so cheap). And it was not started by you Mrs LeslieAnn so please don't get angry. I am speaking generally and not targeting specifically you.

 

You just have a different approach to life.

Cheers!

 

 

Since you are speaking generally I'll poke my nose in here.

 

mpc you didn't specifically say that there was anything wrong with this kit. You offered several cliches and unrelated examples which are btw wrong/not applicable. You chose to speculate why this kit might have something wrong with it rather than offer wisdom based on knowlege, I believe fraud and poor quality were your most forceful claims but claims without evidence to support them.

 

I'm not the OP either and yet your words irked me so much I had to weigh in. I'm merely mining this thread for useful info and feedback on an attractively priced kit. I hope to find such information here when some of the trail-breakers receivve their kits(good luck guys&gals).

[LeslieAnn]

mpc you didn't specifically say that there was anything wrong with this kit. You offered several cliches and unrelated examples which are btw wrong/not applicable. You chose to speculate why this kit might have something wrong with it rather than offer wisdom based on knowlege, I believe fraud and poor quality were your most forceful claims but claims without evidence to support them.

 

I'm not the OP either and yet your words irked me so much I had to weigh in. I'm merely mining this thread for useful info and feedback on an attractively priced kit. I hope to find such information here when some of the trail-breakers receivve their kits(good luck guys&gals).

Well said.

 

What price did you get on that? How much was shipping?

$70 for everything, I don't know the breakdown of the costs, but I would assume $15-20 shipping.

 

 

 

My problem is that you are basically stating that drivers are overpriced and worthless.

I never said worthless, but I will say many are way overpriced. LED fixtures in general have until just recently been insanely priced for no reason. And just like any hobby, there are price snobs who think something cheap can't be good or that the Chinese cannot make something good.

 

I'm not advocating running a wallwart and LED's, I never said to and of course voltage fluctuation would be bad. Notice I did sate a regulator. While there isn't a bunch of how-to's on reef forums, look around the net, there IS discussions of LED's and drivers. All sorts of electronics are all over the internet. Just because they aren't here doesn't mean they aren't happening.

 

All of this fear mongering over this stuff isn't helping anyone except merchants preying on people stupid enough to keep paying what they were charging for these systems a year or two ago.

[mpc]

mpc you didn't specifically say that there was anything wrong with this kit.

 

Please read the first post of this thread. "What is the catch" See that line?

I provide my vision, why it is cheap (because the underlying idea was that author of this thread asked to name potential reasons why this was so cheap in comparison to others). I can summ it up for you.

1) Smaller than optimal heatsink for a given number of LEDs ( I have built fixtures both using Crees and Nonames and I know how hot they get so it is not like I grabbed this info entirely from thin air ).

2) LEDs might not be what they are claimed to be. First of all the picture. Just compare Satisled with this one. Ok it is not that simple, because bridgelux grows GaN wafers and sells them to other companies which then package them, apply phosphors etc. So in theory it can be anything - but if we are speaking strictly where we can save a buck on this setup then this might be it.

3) No name very simplistic built drivers. You won't find the datasheet by typing in the model number in the google.

I can throw in #4) Cheap optics directly from China. By cheap I mean cheap because there are less or none middlemen between manufacturer and vendor (This applies also to other made in Chine components). Probabbly those lenses are the same ones as rapidled provides.

SO this is how I see these dudes could have saved a penny thus offering cheaper kits. I am not saying it is good or bad. I stated (my thoughts - feel free to ignore). Author asked for an opinion - I provided mine.

Please differentiate between a) an opinion and authenticity investigation/quality check.

If you think that this kit will suit you - please go get one. I am not saying don't buy - it is faulty or something.

Cheers!

[Fail_sh3d]

There was a writing on the wall of a shed... "Penis".... I opened the door but to my surprise I found firewood.

 

Why would you open that door...?

[bjbass]

What configuration would you guys recommend for a BC14? 7 blue and 7 white? 8 blue and 6 white? Should I keep it the standard config of 12?

[Trogdor447]

All that I have seen in these last few posts is one mans ego trashes another mans want to save a dollar. This being said EVERYONE on these boards would rather go to a DIY kit to save a few dollars.

 

You are trashing a product that you have 0 experience with! If anything the folks that are trashing these should be more than thrilled that there is those willing to dish out a 'minimal' amount of cash to test these bad boys out for the good of this forum & the hobby.

 

 

WHY in gods name would someone advertise that it is a 'bridgelux' if it is not? That means that every single person that orders off of them would be able to contest their purchase through the credit card and get a refund....

 

I can understand why someone from nanocustoms would be upset by seeing these posts. Or someone who is running a full on CREE LED system would be extremely upset especially if they have just purchased one in recent days.

 

 

This is a hobby and if you want to troll others please be my guest - but you need to stop talking about things you have absolutely no clue about.

 

Here is a wiring schematic for a dimming driver

http://www.electroniq.net/files/news/LM3530-led-driver.jpg

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM3445.html#Overview

 

And if you care to read up on how it works - educate yourself - there is not a lot of parts there.

 

To be honest for once I am glad there is an underdog coming out in the industry, to see the EXTREME price range on LED fixtures is disgusting. For custom ones like nanocustoms offers is very reasonable, they are putting the hard time into wiring these kits ensuring the highest quality that manufacture in house etc. This is where there cost comes from. Unfortunately for myself and many others, we cannot afford to go this rout and will go with the cheaper DIY build.

 

If this LED system lasts 1 year I'm more than satisfied with the price I paid, if it last 3 months, I would be a little upset - however with electrical knowledge you can probably figure out how/why these go bad, most of the time its HEAT that kills electronics.

[m28cruiser]

Here are pics posted by someone who brought a 90 LED kit.

 

LED ratio 48 blue 38 white 4 UV.

 

http://www.thereefuge.com/threads/my-diy-led-build.229/

 

Tanks size 4' x 1.5' x 2'

 

I want to see a kit with a few red leds.

[michelleshusband]

ENOUGH OF THIS!

 

ON WITH THE PICTURES!!!

 

and comments on quality and personal experience/preference!!!

 

on_ice where are those pictures you promised!

get to work damn it

[bensanders]

Where's evil when you need him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I know. Some idiots hacked their website and now he is crazy busy.

 

Just our luck

[bjbass]

I am going to order a kit as soon as I hear back from this guy. I figure it is worth the gamble for the money. I filled out the online form yesterday for Contact Us and never heard anything, so I emailed the support@aquastyleonline.com this morning. I still haven't heard anything, but is that the email for this guy Ray? Is he in Hong Kong or whatever? That would be why I haven't heard from him then!

 

I was thinking about getting the 14 LED for my BC14. I was going to get like 7 blue, 7 white. Or maybe 5 white, 7 blue, and 2 violet. Most people seem to put 12 LEDs in the BC14 with a preference for the blue. Like 8 blue and 4 white. I was thinking 7 blue and 5 white. Thoughts?

 

BJ

[lpsouth1978]

I recently did a build using the LED's from SatisLED which are, at the very least, VERY similar to the LED's offered here. I am quite happy with the results.

 

That being said there are some very big draw backs to this system. The first and foremost is the output. These LED's are not nearly as bright or efficient as the Cree LED's. The build utilizing these LED's has a total of 72 LED's on it - 24 CW, 12 NW, 24 RB, 6 Blue, 3 red, and 3 UV. The output is perfect over my 34 gallon tank.

 

I also have a fixture with 24 cree LED's, XP series, - 12 CW and 12 RB, and it is as bright as the 72 LED's from SatisLED. This means that the energy savings are out the door. Instead of 24 @ 3w I am now using 72 @ 3w. That is 216 watts instead of only 72 watts. Due to the need for more LED's and drivers, the cost difference is not that great either even if you do half as many instead of one third you would be looking at only $280 from RapidLED, add the cost of a heatsink and you are up to about $320 with shipping.

 

If I was to do it all again, I would deffinitely go with the Cree lenses. These are not bad LED's, but you will end up paying for the lower price in one way or another. Here are some pics of my build just so You can get the idea.