Garrett's Sealed Pico. 0.9 Gallon

[garrettparson]

So im starting a 0.9 gallon pico tank. It will be a 100% sealed tank so evaporation will be pretty much none. I will have a very small refugium with pump in the back and It will have LED lighting above and I am planning on making a canopy for it. I got this tank Idea from Brandon429.

 

Corals that im going for is mostly SPS. So if anyone has some very small acro/milli frags they want to get rid of I might be interested. I would like to add a shrimp or two, or maybe a small crab.

 

I will try to get pictures up by later today or tomarrow.

Edited June 3, 2011 by garrettparson

[brandon429]

Hi Garrett glad I saw your thread. You went for the corvette pico right off the bat nice ~

also consider marinedepotlive.com Ive bought from them and the selection is amazing.

 

welcome to nr man

B

[Nate Dawg]

Having a 100% sealed tank would be much harder to care for, because it would not allow for proper gas exchange, causing a break in the nitrogen cycle. It will affect you water quality and kill your SPS.

 

Just topping off your water every day would likely be much less work than caring for a sealed tank. Perhaps large water changes every day would make up for the lack of gas exchange.

 

Bottom line, you tank needs to breathe!

Edited May 22, 2011 by Nate Dawg

[garrettparson]

Hi Garrett glad I saw your thread. You went for the corvette pico right off the bat nice ~

also consider marinedepotlive.com Ive bought from them and the selection is amazing.

 

welcome to nr man

B

Ha thanks! Im very excited about this. I will get some holes drilled today or tomarrow, once that happens the silicone sealng will begin!

 

 

Having a 100% sealed tank would be much harder to care for, because it would not allow for proper gas exchange, causing a break in the nitrogen cycle. It will affect you water quality and kill your SPS.

 

Just topping off your water every day would likely be much less work than caring for a sealed tank. Perhaps large water changes every day would make up for the lack of gas exchange.

What kind of gases are you referring? Because I will have cheato to bring in oxygen?

[mmcguffi]

big one besides O2--release of CO2

[garrettparson]

big one besides O2--release of CO2

Well I know its possible, because brandon429 has done it. I guess I need to ask him some more questions about that.

[mmcguffi]

Well it's impossible (or near impossible anyway) to create a COMPLETE sealed tank.

 

If you are going to go for it (I have no experience with these tanks) I would suggest using lots of macros as that would help tremendously with exporting CO2 and refreshing the O2

 

The fuge plan you have sounds like a good idea

[garrettparson]

Well it's impossible (or near impossible anyway) to create a COMPLETE sealed tank.

 

If you are going to go for it (I have no experience with these tanks) I would suggest using lots of macros as that would help tremendously with exporting CO2 and refreshing the O2

 

The fuge plan you have sounds like a good idea

Yeah, there will be a false wall with a hole drill thats where to the pump nozzel will stick out for flow, behind the false wall with the pump it will be stuffed with cheato, So i was thinking it would take in co2 and release oxygen. Correct me if im wrong though.

[mmcguffi]

correct as far as I know

[garrettparson]

correct as far as I know

Yeah, So if there is alot/almost half the 0.9 gallon tank is stuffed with cheato in the back, I would think It would be able to support the small reef with the proper exchanges of gases.

[garrettparson]

Okay, So tomarrow for sure I will finally have pictures of my tank getting built. Aswell whats some cool sps species should I put in there? I want some really neat looking acro/millis and also I would like to keep sometype of sponge in there. I never had a sponge before and I just want one so any suggestions of what kind of sps/sponge would be awesome!

[mmcguffi]

Im not 100% on this but I think the care for SPS and sponges are pretty much opposites. This would especially cause a problem in a pico of this size

[garrettparson]

Im not 100% on this but I think the care for SPS and sponges are pretty much opposites. This would especially cause a problem in a pico of this size

Yeah. I was kinda thinking that. It would have to be more of just a" lame sponge". A hitchhiker on a peice of live rock that has slow growth and isnt all that pretty. Even still it would be cool just to have one. Aswell it would be a major problem with most sponges since I will be doing a 100% water change every week and I read sponges dont do well to exposure of air.

[.Newman.]

some of the HH sponges wont care. usually the water flow will knock the bubbles out of them or you can turkey baste them to force flow through the sponge to clear out the bubbles after a water change. Of course we are talking about common white, tan, or brow sponges here, what you usually get on frags of coral.

 

I suggest that if you are going with SPS you get one hardy frag of either acropora or montipora and do a trial run with that. if after 3 months or so it shows no encrusting growth then you should probably keep soft corals.

Edited May 26, 2011 by .Newman.

[brandon429]

great advice Newman. I found that in sealing a tank to prevent evaporation, it was the constant opening and shutting of the lid for frag moving, feeding etc that always kept it refreshed.

 

Since evaporation won't happen notably in the two mins the lid is open, the tank should be called essentially sealed lol, in between time

 

agreed on the coral suggestions, and that the system needs to tune first before anything is put in.

 

One of the strongest things you can do to run a sealed (essentially sealed) reef is to provide a lower than normal water line while its running. Im out of memory space now on nr.com but by avatar makes the point...thats a sealed reef, but the illusion is that the water line is right at the top of the tank portion, its not. There is a nice sized gap in between the lid and the surface of the water, enough that this zone actually acts as a dual sink for oxygen and CO2 simultaneously, at least until the next cracking airs it out.

 

It is such a powerful buffer that sealed tanks don't even need the refugium part anymore, I just thought it initially did. we end up opening the lid so often it just refreshes out just fine. To further development of the sealed system approach Id like to see someone set up a simple aquarium air pump on a timer, where it pumps in new air just into the void space under the lid. A one-way exit valve aimed accordingly is the pressure vent solution to still keep the tank essentially sealed. See what I mean? the sealed reef is gradually refreshed daily without ever having to pop the lid to do so, yet the majority of time spent running is in the sealed manner so all the benefits are still retained.

 

Sealed pico reefs absolutely must still have the same gas exchange they do in open reefs, the key is finding simple ways to get both benefits. A continuously lit refugium is one way to do it, and lid venting is another way while using an air space as a buffer between the water line and the lid.

[garrettparson]

great advice Newman. I found that in sealing a tank to prevent evaporation, it was the constant opening and shutting of the lid for frag moving, feeding etc that always kept it refreshed.

 

Since evaporation won't happen notably in the two mins the lid is open, the tank should be called essentially sealed lol, in between time

 

agreed on the coral suggestions, and that the system needs to tune first before anything is put in.

 

One of the strongest things you can do to run a sealed (essentially sealed) reef is to provide a lower than normal water line while its running. Im out of memory space now on nr.com but by avatar makes the point...thats a sealed reef, but the illusion is that the water line is right at the top of the tank portion, its not. There is a nice sized gap in between the lid and the surface of the water, enough that this zone actually acts as a dual sink for oxygen and CO2 simultaneously, at least until the next cracking airs it out.

 

It is such a powerful buffer that sealed tanks don't even need the refugium part anymore, I just thought it initially did. we end up opening the lid so often it just refreshes out just fine. To further development of the sealed system approach Id like to see someone set up a simple aquarium air pump on a timer, where it pumps in new air just into the void space under the lid. A one-way exit valve aimed accordingly is the pressure vent solution to still keep the tank essentially sealed. See what I mean? the sealed reef is gradually refreshed daily without ever having to pop the lid to do so, yet the majority of time spent running is in the sealed manner so all the benefits are still retained.

 

Sealed pico reefs absolutely must still have the same gas exchange they do in open reefs, the key is finding simple ways to get both benefits. A continuously lit refugium is one way to do it, and lid venting is another way while using an air space as a buffer between the water line and the lid.

Hm so using both the refugium and the gap would be most benificial? How long do you think it could survive with out an opening of the lid? Btw where did you get your groumets I can not find them in stores.. and with the coral, I might start out with a simple birdnest. as far as sps goes. I will put some spare corals I have (acan,trumpet, and zoanthids) those will actually be the start out corals I will have. And I will gradually add in acros/millis. Im thinking about doing what thesmallerthebetter did and have it a one way view, or maybe cover up 2 out of the 4 walls of the tank because I want to glue some frags to the glass and with 2 walls uncovered you can get a front view and a side view still. Also Brandon I saw on youtube where you said about a sciencefair.. well that would amazing if you ever could come to the north georga area.. ha

[brandon429]

if you just keep nice flow inside it, enough air is exchanged at the water's surface within the reef that the redox measures of the water stay just fine with the chaeto's oxygen output and/or the venting of the lid

 

But thats why I was wowed by you starting off with a sealed pico Garrett, these are vette systems and tricky to tune but it will work thats for sure.

 

we've been chatting on youtube for a while now and I've watched you will yourself right into reefdom it would be cool if you were my neighbor we'd get along man lol.

 

One of the prime actions I have my eye on buddy is how you are going to effect a seal that can be continually raised and then reset.

Most all forms of weatherstripping use give out in time, they won't hold accurate shape to effect a seal after like 500 openings, they'll tear at the corners and such.

 

Salt creep is your big test of time. Wherever the tank develops salt creep is where your seal isn't working, in a true sealed reef you will have only freshwater condensate running onto the gap junction between your lid seal and your tank, it will never push through salt to cake up around your lid. If its saltwater/ salt creep, you have one of two things happening:

 

1. water level too high

in the pico reef, the meniscus water line at the corners curves up and is a quarter inch higher at the corners of a tank vs the middle, so they will shoot saltwater onto your gap junction, the place where the seal actually happens. you have to keep saltwater off that area so the keep the corners of the water line a good quarter inch below that junction point, salt water is a powerful wick and will find its way out of the tank, producing an amazing phenomena where the specific gravity of the water DROPS as the days go by...reverse topoff. That has never been documented in any form of reefkeeping literature anywhere so its a funny comment to make.

 

2. capillary action, again a form of wicking where the saltwater climbs up a cable and into your grommet area where the cable passes through the lid, again a junction influx that needs to be corrected. Capillary wicking, using a structure to provide a bridge to your lid seal, is again limited by water line, it can only reach so far. You may find it a challenge to seal the tank without topoff but when you get frustrated just lower the water line a little bit, thats why I used a canopy with a long front panel, to hide all that. Without the canopy to cover my air space, the tank would look dumb and only partially filled but the truth is all the aquascaping and size of the frags is aimed at completing the illusion of a high water line.

 

 

I hope there is a less ugly way to make the seal than what I did, again the canopy is a band aid. there are parts of my video that show the tank with the lid off, its a huge ugly silicone mess around the tank but here's why it works. You can mate your lid to the tank with a huge, giant bead of silicone ran around the perimeter, like you are going to seal the lid on permanently. You let that huge bead dry for two days, this lid is literally stuck on the tank.

 

Then you run a razor blade around the perimeter, in the middle of your seal, in one single cut, so that the lids will separate. Now each portion has a seal on it with a perfect mate when seated. The weight of the canopy or in some cases just some tape will press the lid onto the seal while the tank runs, but to lift it off is just as easy. This method is a pain to set up, but its the only way Ive seen hold a seal for years without leaking. All forms of weatherstripping I found to break down, but this silicone glob trick seemed to work.

 

 

 

 

use your system in the fair and you can document it in your thread! it will be the single most fun you've ever had and it will change your life in terms of personal motivation. Absolutely you should set up a tiny pico reef of some size for your science teacher, you will instantly have their interest in a real, real way. Im telling you man, he who sets up a pico reef in school and affects others through inspiration is doing a heckuva thing for science as a whole. I think classroom picos are the most fun ones i read about on the web!

Edited May 26, 2011 by brandon429

[garrettparson]

Dang Im getting myself into an awesome but frustrating mess. Im already frustrated that I have to cut wires to just get it through the glass holes! lol I am a bit worried about the whole salt creep thing, I inmagine it will just be trail and error till I get the water low enough but not too low to were it looks dumb. ( I was planning on building a canopy btw) so theres my bandaid as well. Yeah I figured you used a razor to cut the silicone edges. Should I buy one of those black handles that stick to the glass that people put on top of there tanks so i can just pull from that too?

 

I just enjoy a challenge in my tanks. I always have I hated the whole no smaller then 55 gallon rule that everybody used to say.

Edited May 26, 2011 by garrettparson

[brandon429]

I always thought some kind of suction cup lifter would be neat. I hope you are working with all glass surfaces, again a problem discovered after the fact in my setup is that the tank was acrylic and the lid was glass, so when filled with water it bowed out along the edges, making sealing tough. If yours is glass/glass it will be so much easier.

 

the salt creep will be no problem, its not a mystery to stop any more.

 

there were times when my tank was using the weatherstripping approach (which works well in the early months) where I just learned to live with the salt creep. an imperfect seal, but one that still made the tank not require topoff at all as it wasn't too bad, that was a nice benefit to having a lid yet accounting for gas exchange with simple measures. minor imperfections in sealing did not wreck the experiment.

 

I tested the water commonly for salinity when it had some caking around the edges. The canopy hid it from view anway, thats about 5 ways a canopy helped my tank...when the seal was perfected with the silicone way no more water testing was needed, the water line didn't lower over a 7 day course and there was no salt creep, salinity was a perfect .023 without even testing by these two physicalities alone...

 

many things in pico reefing can be eyeballed and not tested for, another key benefit of pico reef work. your reef will tune you man lol

Edited May 26, 2011 by brandon429

[garrettparson]

well the tank is glass. but the wall hiding the pump/cheato is plexi glass, so is the the top that is supposed to be sealed. I got a medium thick piece so hopefully it will not warp out to bad or at all? Oh and I have been meaning to ask you. I saw in one of your video's that you had extra tanks of the same size/canopy but i think it said 2003 on the recording.. so you probally dont have another spare do you?

[brandon429]

brother I do have em but I can't part with em out of old school habit lol

i use em to set up little freshwater planted tanks at work

 

but I'll tell you this, the only cool thing about mine are the canopies and stand, cdelicath is a poster here (seek him out) and he will build you an all glass version, same dimensions, for about 40 bucks. mine are all scratched up from years of use...the pics make em look better than they are.

 

acrylic sucks bigtime for pico reef use. just saving you a headache...as a lid its okay as long as its thick and won't warp. if it does, you can pay a custom glass cutter about 30 bucks to make you a real fitting lid with the access holes already predrilled.

don't worry about the wire cutting, its all two wires in pico reefing. the heater line is two wires you splice back together with tape after you run it through the lid, and same for the pump. only two wires, real fast fix.

[brandon429]

dont forget the sealing grommets from radioshack!!

[garrettparson]

Ha its fine. I kinda like the looks of the cube I have. I just wonder if sps will grow easier in a more long like yours or more tall like mine. Thanks for all the advice though. Im really excted about this! I will try to get pictures up soon. (i know i keep saying this) But yeah my uncle should be drilling holes for me today. If that fails then glass shop it is. Also what do think about this pico being sandless? I would think it would be easier to keep all the nitrates out and stuff?

[brandon429]

yes absolutely thats cleaner than using a sandbed. they are waste sinks in a pico reef, but if you ever want one there are ways of managing them but nothings cleaner than bare bottom, you'll have less algae problems that way.

 

are you going to just set some live rock in there? if you get the tank tuned for sps it will grow out wonderfully.

 

 

If you are serious about doing sps here's what you will need. Other ways may work better or worse, but at least this way is guaranteed.

 

get c balance from marinedepot.com its $16 bucks for 32oz bottles, last a year nearly.

 

must have frozen cyclopeeze an $11 bar from local pet store

 

these are non negotiable for a guaranteed method, so hopefully these last purchases that will last about a year will be ok. vettes cost $$ lol

 

if you start the system with a bunch of mushrooms you will not enjoy them when you start inserting $40 sps frags, so if your goal really is to party acro style then just start perfect and take the cost I always say...

 

keep temps at maximum 80 degrees, if the tank gets above 80 then fan it or lower the home ac. The reason for this is in my opinion 80 is the maximum rate you want tank bacteria consuming oxygen, which is not abundant in a sealed system in the first place. Bacteria tend to double their consumption of substrate (including oxygen) for every ten degrees shift in temp, so 78 is ideal, it makes the tankwide oxygen demand more sustainable. Hot sealed tanks become cyano traps quick

 

 

when you get the tank setup with water and some live rock and have let it run a few days to ensure sealing, just work the weekly dosing method we did on youtube. that will blast your sps and coralline. Its three drops each additive, spaced 20 mins apart, 3x per week in mornings before lights on only, any other time can kill your tank. full water changes anytime you feed the tank, minimum once a week on sundays. I do sundays and wed to support as much coral biomass. If you need to go out of town and not feed it for over a week, the system will be very forgiving because you will have packed mass into the coral by keeping high ions and high feeding in clean water.

 

The maintenance is simple, you will be doing like 5 mins of work weekly maybe ten if you change water twice optimally. The number one thing I recommend is that you dose the tank with c balance and not just go on water changes if you want sps. most will tell you that there is no safe way to dose a micro tank, thats not correct. the avatar reef used half a cap of c balance to keep up with the command of the sps, and half a cap burned Newman's giant pico lol, thats what I mean about tiny sps reefs. They ramp up in calcium use and will manifest a deficiency as dying sps if we don't dose and exceed water change requirements. Its easy insurance when a water change takes 30 seconds.

 

this method works, its what I used on all my pico reefs. The size of the reef tank I'll keep is determined by how much of a hassle a complete water change would be. A 10 gallon is a terrible chore to me, a one gallon is just right to guarantee perfect coral growth.

 

what lighting are you using again>?

Edited May 27, 2011 by brandon429

[brandon429]

at any time during the life of the tank if you see algae, remove it instantly with any method. Do not stock snails or animals to remove it, if you want some snails buy them for looks not function. In a reef this small, you are the gardener. green hair algae will destroy a reef this size, its teeting on the edge constantly after the first year, must treat it right now as if its years old, its the only way to guarantee success. The cool thing about this method is it will work 100% without fail if you can keep the lighting, temps and water regimen going, thats a nice thing to say about a micro sps reef.

 

After construction is done, they are the simplest and most stable reefs ever, much less work than even a 5 gallon tank. I think the biggest risk you face is overheating, your home needs to not get over like 76 degrees in the summer, not everyone is willing to pay an elec bill for that. Direct fanning might need to be planned for, the reef in my avatar had to be directly fanned.