Garrett's Sealed Pico. 0.9 Gallon

[brandon429]

be sure and have your uncle drill a cork hole you will thank me later!!! a tiny hole right in the middle, a tiny cork can stay in it and you can both *water change* and feed through this hole without having to crack your tank's lid. dosing drops can be placed through the hole then re corked

The cork hole method is amazing, when frags get moved I stick a coat hanger wire into my avatar reef and reposition frags.

 

To change water out of it, I drain the tank with a silicone airline siphon hose about 3mins of draining to complete empty.

 

to refill I slowly pour the water back through the hole with a little plastic funnel I commandered from my daughters playset lol

Edited May 27, 2011 by brandon429

[garrettparson]

Ha okay! I actually saw the cork in one of your videos and I knew you probally used it for that stuff. Ha have you ever thought about doing a complete nonphytosynthenic pico? That would interesting I would think.

 

Also about the lighting do you think LEDs would keep it cool in the summer? I might install a small fan in the canopy I'm building or something.

[garrettparson]

I have cyclopeez,rods,phyto, and mysis.lol so I'm set I will use cycopleeze though. And for dosing I own 250ml of nanocode a and code b. Is that good enough? I am planning putting live rock. I can't decide reather glue rock to back or put a few on each side of cube.

[brandon429]

you do have the basics that sounds great. at least you have a nice two part solution to use we can read up on the dosing to scale it to your size tank, I still bet its in the drops and everything else would be the same regarding dosing times

 

LED's are experimental, I see them grow nice corals and I also see them tricky to acclimate in some tanks where the intensity of the beams make placing the light right above the tank, especially in a canopy, a tricky setup. The only lights I can guarantee are power compact lights or t5 flourescents. LED's may work if you suspend the light high above the tank, but right over the top I think they may be too intense and directional.

 

not that you couldn't get an led fabricator to build you a setup, but for the half the money a visit to hellolights.com, a site Ive ordered lights from about 20 times, you can get an 18 watt 50.50 power compact setup that will start the tank off perfectly, guaranteed to grow and not overheat. About a 50 dollar investment in a guaranteed light.

[garrettparson]

I mean I could do without a canopy, Any idea of how I could cover the non pretty look of the top? I was thinking maybe like a partial canopy it goes up like one but is open.. I dont know if that would look dumb or not. Aswell could those 18w pc in such a small system be able to support purple, blue, red etc color of acroporas?

Edited May 27, 2011 by garrettparson

[Markushka]

Following along. be sure to post lots of pics!

 

Brandon429, where do you get your info? any sources? I'd like to read them if you linked me to them.

[garrettparson]

Following along. be sure to post lots of pics!

 

Brandon429, where do you get your info? any sources? I'd like to read them if you linked me to them.

Ha thanks! Im telling ya if its like im planning this tank is going to be very interesting! I will try to get some pictures up a soon as possible!

[brandon429]

my info is in my sig line, its a really reliable method to keep sub gallon picos running for years.

 

Garrett I do think it can hold those colors, Im getting strong support of blue acropora in my vase just off two 13 watt pc's, but the heat is something to manage. By strong support I mean the new growths along the base line and the new tips are still blue, whereas they would have turned brown in a tank that doesn't hold water quality and light intensity comparably. I do not think you should start out with the top array of red and blue sps, the tank needs to be tested and tuned first, especially since we've changed guaranteed variables even before starting the system. It can still be made to run, but now we have to take it slower. The first sps should be cheap affordable frags of monti and acro that you can afford to lose, if the changes made to the known methods don't work out.

 

Its important to note that we are starting to change up half of the working model into an experimentory realm, the dosing is powerful to the system and we are using another ion support with an unknown dosage amount, and if they lights used aren't pc then thats another huge variable that cannot be guaranteed. The last thing you want is $200 in acro frags thrown into the mix. That open topped canopy idea is fine, I thought about it too. earlier I typed 18 watt, I meant 13 watt. they are little tiny short pc bulbs that will lay flat across the tank and fit it nicely.

 

To keep the acropora you are wanting, it will likely take a two bulb setup and that will likely need fanning. Start with one bulb and use it to grow a single simple sps frag or two under it, then when those start to plate you could add another light and deck out the system.

 

Its very hard not to recommend LED when so many people are using it, but its important to note there is zero room for error in a system this small and I have specific friends in the pm box for months and months who were using pc, switched to LED, and are still acclimating the corals in a way that's pleasing to them, with some trial and error. Undoubtedly LED's are cooler, last longer etc, but the one problem I see in these builds where people try and replicate my micro reefs is they change up the core variables and then the system crashes and they hate me lol

 

 

However, the systems running dosing, pc lights, coupled water changes and feeding and full water changes are still running pretty close to a year now after they were set up. Cichlidmania26 on youtube has made a great replication of the vase system for many people in his family and he's now coached all of them into keeping their own pico reefs as fist time aquariums, not just first time saltwater tanks.

 

If you must experiment with LED lights and non c balance dosing we need to wait before decking your tank out with a hundred bucks worth of starter frags. Id be getting a couple frags of $15 montipora and millepora for starters and maybe a couple zoanthid starter frags, thats about it until we tune it.

B

[brandon429]

here are two 13 watt 50 50 pcs that cover the reef in my avatar. It has tabling acropora two and half years established, but the heat is a pain. It was easy to fix with a table fan behind the tank, and since the tank was sealed, evap was not an issue.

[brandon429]

here are a few build pics to give you ideas as you customize your setup. in this pic, you can see the lines for the heater and pump have been cut, ran through holes in the glass lid through grommets, and it shows how the back of the tank holds the internal refugium and all that equipment packed into a small compartment. I would never, never keep a pico without these submersible heaters, nothing is as reliable. Remember that wattage of your heater doesn't matter, these are 50w submersibles in less than a gallon of water. Wouldn't matter if you could fit a 200 watt heater in there, it always shuts off at 78 degrees anyway. In 20 years of fishkeeping Ive never had a heater fail, so that thought doesn't cross my mind. Ive even used the stealth ones everyone is having all the probs with...

 

in this pic, the heater is a tronic 6" submersible

[garrettparson]

The whole pc lighting thing is very interesting all in its self. It defeats the whole theory that bright colored sps can not live under them. The only bad thing is I got all this LED equipement for me to use. But if your sure pc is best then I will do that. Can you give me a link showing the exact ones you buy? Aswell I wouldnt stuff the tank full with 200 dollars of acros. lol Maybe a small 20 dollar frag. Im kinda looking into mrcoal.com because he has some nice pieces for 10 dollars and they are small enough and almost perfect size for my tank.

[brandon429]

oh hey man I didn't know you already bought $$ of LED we should try and work with that first, don't want you to waste anything. lets trade links, can you send me one of the led setup you have? I want to look at the wattage and optics to see how well it will spread out the beam. If you bought that par 30 off marinedepot we talked about thats just fine, didn't know you had scooped it up.

 

The only thing pc's have over LED is they work in 100% of instances, whereas LED works usually but I still have these friends not totally pleased with them. if we can get LED to work over your setup Im sure you will prefer it to hot, short lived pc bulbs. I thought you were still shopping for lights heres the ones I used:

 

 

the bulb:

http://www.hellolights.com/13watt-5050.aspx

 

the light/ballast I use to run this bulb is the "azoo galaxy light" google that and buy it from anywhere its about 18 bucks. you switch out the bulb that comes with it for this one above.

 

Lemme see your LED tho and we'll check with evil66 on here before we go pc, he can help us since you've already bought led

B

[garrettparson]

Lol well I actually own a par 38 21watt LED bulb. But I also just order one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com/1pc-GU10-3W-Warm-White...=item256355ae04

 

I saw those on a thread with pictures of great coral growth so I went to buy some to test these out aswell.

[brandon429]

Thats plenty enough to get started with, we know it will grow some corals for sure so we'll just experiment to see which ones will work in your tank. The toughest part is getting the holes drilled and the sealing without salt creep, lighting is a cinch compared to that.

 

So, you have a weekend of sealed reef tweaking!! post updates I'll check them while Im at the lake driving my rc car remotely around the lake through a video cam looking to run down raccoons lol

B

Edited May 27, 2011 by brandon429

[garrettparson]

My uncle has got the holes drilled! I should finally get it tomarrow! Ha and I love rc stuff. Im a rc helicopter fan!

[brandon429]

Hey thats neat man I tried to fly them but couldn't, cyclic was too hard to get right and I could never do a hover. Im talking the single blades, anyone can fly the counter rotating ones lol

 

There is one variable that may work out nicely for your tank in using the LED, the heat transferred right onto your plexi lid you want to remain flat so it will seal. Two screaming 13 w pc's I think would warp nearly any practical thickness so the cool effect from LED gives you a great chance of maintaining a straight lid. A canopy that presses on all sides would also help, I think an open topped is a great idea and if you decide to change away from LED's then a pc retrofit in it would be easy as well then you could mount the top back on the canopy and match it to the rest of the stand.

[garrettparson]

Hey thats neat man I tried to fly them but couldn't, cyclic was too hard to get right and I could never do a hover. Im talking the single blades, anyone can fly the counter rotating ones lol

 

There is one variable that may work out nicely for your tank in using the LED, the heat transferred right onto your plexi lid you want to remain flat so it will seal. Two screaming 13 w pc's I think would warp nearly any practical thickness so the cool effect from LED gives you a great chance of maintaining a straight lid. A canopy that presses on all sides would also help, I think an open topped is a great idea and if you decide to change away from LED's then a pc retrofit in it would be easy as well then you could mount the top back on the canopy and match it to the rest of the stand.

Yeah thats for sure. There pretty tough other wise. Yeah Im pretty confident that LEDS will work but i will probally be surprised. What do you feel about the ones I gave you the link too? If i did make a canopy with LEDS i imagine those would be a good fit.

[brandon429]

I saw the link but must admit I have zero practice with LED use (today's led's)

 

once assembled an led array from radioshack bulbs in the 90's but that does not count they were weak lol

 

 

literally we are stabbing in the dark with this kind of light, will just have to build it and see what happens on some simple frags. The par 30 I have less concern about as many people are using them.

[garrettparson]

Yeah the par38 I had pretty good resaults with it in the vase.

[garrettparson]

I finally filled the tank up with water/sand. I painted the wall(s) that i wanted black. I Completely sealed the top and am now waiting a day or two to dry. I am tempted to post pictures but i put a few lps that I AM NOT keeping in there. They were held in 1/4 gallon jar with an heater and air stone because I had no room for them and one including a trumpet is not in the best shape and kinda embarrase to show it off. Ha.. Anywho I will try to sell them cheap at my lfs in the next couple days, and maybe in tje next few days I will order a small piece of acro/milli or two. Wish me luck!

[garrettparson]

I just bought my first 2 corals for this tank. Both milli's from the ten dollar section at mrcoral.com

 

Im kinda nervous I have never bought coral online before. Has anyone order from mrcoral before?

If so how was your experience once corals was recieved?

Edited June 2, 2011 by garrettparson

[brandon429]

So you aren't wasting any time lol. this is faster stocking of sps than is usually recommended without knowing how the other parameters will support them.

 

 

I wouldn't add more corals for about a month now, remember we are using experimental combinations of dosing, lighting, etc that has not been verified in a reef this small yet. You are making a new experiment, best not to risk corals until you are sure, but I know that pull to stock the reef quickly, its hard to resist.

 

The sps need several weeks to acclimate and see if they will lay down plating mass before you add more

 

You need to get a couple simple corals that show adverse reactions quickly in the system should they arise, a tiny frag of a small ricordea would work, some candy cane coral frags...thats about it for starters in the untested system.

 

the sps will not tell you anything, they will either be dying before we know it, or growing before we know it, the soft corals or simple lps corals will show poor conditions in the polyps and this is very helpful when designing a new, untested approach.

 

What kind of frozen feed do you have ready for the tank, cyclopeeze frozen?

[garrettparson]

I know it is quick but the RO water i have been using for a while I trust a fair amount. At the moment I kinda did what you said I have 3 test corals. A very small brain( favites), a Acan, and some poor trumpets. They all reacted pretty decent. The Acan is poofy, the trumpet had its feeding tenticles out, and with the favites well I can never tell anything with it.lol These I should sell/trade at my local lfs in a couple days. With the heat I notice it stays about 83-84 during day and about 81 at night time. I hope that is not a huge change. Like I said the millis I got were 10 dollars not to big of a deal if I lose them. Just hoping I will not.. they look really cool.

[brandon429]

also Garrett I needed a pic of any perspective to see how big the frags are compared to the water volume/etc just to get a feel for the feeding demands of the tank. wanted to see if you had a deep sand bed in it, stuff like that.

all these things are critical to tuning the setup for predictability.

 

a helpful predictor about aquascaping, you have to go with really small frags to get the miniature look. If you buy larger, solitary frags meant for larger nanos and use them in a pico it can work, but it will not look the same as 40 different frags filling out the nooks and crannies. Additionally, larger polyped frags begin to require spot feeding in the pico reef in certain setups and this is helpful to know to prevent tissue recession around the bases in brain corals etc

[brandon429]

I believe that amount of heat will make the tank short lived. It is already 3 degrees past your error high temp maximum (errors happen in sealed reefs, for sure)

there is no breathing room...imagine keeping a reef alive for a year at that maximum, and then one day someone forgets to set the room thermostat a few degrees in the summer time, in 2 hours all your corals will die, its happened to me before, thats why I learned to set absolute toleration limits early, don't just go off what the tank does now, that changes as quickly as the end of summertime. Its so clean, its not oxygen consumptive now, but it will be, soon.

 

As soon as organics accumulate, which happens in all reefs, high temps make cyano nearly impossible to beat, plus it creates an oxygen deficit right off the bat because it makes oxygen consuming bacteria multiply compared to what they would be at 78 degrees consistent with the *occasional 80 degree max. In my opinion, the tank needs to be heavily fanned, constantly, which is what mine required. And that will bring in your salt creep testing, how well the seals hold with air blowing across them (much harder test to pass than with no air movement testing)

 

I would not trade off those corals, keep them for several months in my opinion. The feeding tentacles are a great sign, the favites will produce them too, plus night sweepers we can look for.

 

can you post up just a cell phone pic of the setup for me to get a gauge on what the dynamics will be>also, what kind of frozen feed do you have, its time to start feeding and doing the paired water changes since heterotrophic corals have been added. my strongest recommendations are to buy no more corals, and get the temps below 80, with 80 being the absolute max the tank hits in the worst possible scenario.

 

The reason I type all this is because its so heartbreaking to have people want to replicate the sealed tank approach, and then its dead in two months and it looks like I lied about something. Thats why I say the only guarantees are to replicate the setup exact, any changes to the design are more likely to kill the tank than help it, I already went through so many hundreds of variables in the design its just easier to do what works right off the bat, again this is just my helpful opinion man!

glad you did the tank through, I learn off the new changes you guys make to the original designs.