thinking about a clam under PC's

[pyrrhus]

i never said that my posts are anything but opinions, heres the requested pic of the maxima, ill be more than happy to show more at the end of august. it may be kinda hard to see the growth lines in the pic but i assure you that i counted the scutes when i bought the clam and when i posted my previous reply. Do you actually believe that most of the people on these boards have tested their opinions? if so i would love to see the data from the experiments. i dont see the need to write another book on giant clams yet as daniel knop pretty much covered it. sorry if i ####ed anyone off...pyrrhus (p.s my opinions are just that, opinions but they are opinions that many, many people pay very well to hear and they have worked so far)

[birdman204]

You won't #### anyone off, if people get mad, they are idiots for getting mad at someone on an internet chat forum. No I don't believe many of these people have tested their opinions, but usually, they are giving whats called " anecdotal" advice , they can only say what they see. They aren't saying everyone else is wrong, they are just relaying experiences. I have a high respect for scientific theory and processes... My "reef related" library at home consists of over 20 books, and I get new ones almost every month. I know there are other avid aquarists sharing the info they get from these books, and I hope you aren't so quick to shoot down their "opinions" when in fact they are simply relaying information common to the hobby.

 

Originally posted by pyrrhus

also added a second 2x9w coralife mini aqualight for a total of 51w over the tank

*posted 3-15-04

 

Originally posted by pyrrhus

and they are only 17", its also a used bulb that ive used for bout a month and my water isnt green will watch for it though

*posted Yesterday* in regards to your new powerquad.

 

P.S. Bro, you need to be a little more accurate with dates. It helps with plausability.

[pyrrhus]

didnt log the date i got the 96w up and running over my tank, im usually pretty good about my log book but i neglected to write that down so i was just making a guess off the top of my head not sure of the exact date however.

[pyrrhus]

didnt mean to shoot down anyones opinions and anecdotal evidence is good evidence it should be taken with a grain of salt however, and when citing from others they should be given the credit for their information. what i was trying to convey is that clams can be kept under PC, even the clamsdirect TOTM is a PC clam tank with maximas which many of the experts say cant be done. however i wouldnt argue that clams should not be kept in a 6 gallon tank.

[nano man can]

do u guys think its possible to keep a derasa or a squamosa in my 20 gallon tank i have 2x65watt full spec and actinic and 2x1watt moonlights i also have a cpr fuge i get about 6.5 watts per gallon. i dont think i wanna get one till im at least 10 months into my tank.

[pyrrhus]

i would say so

[ebin]

damn you guys really need to wrestle this one out... id have to say that you do need to take everything you get off these forums with a fistfull of salt. for all you know they could be sitting on a tank full of alge. use these forums as a guide to brainstorm a new angle to attack your problem. some times a second opinion may strike a chord good or bad!!! so to all posters with both crappy advice or excellent advice thanks for making me think twice about ######.

[treszoks]

Clams rely more on actual food than light when they are smaller in size, under 2" or so. However, they also require a very stable environment to thrive which is hard to achieve in small tanks but possible.

[birdman204]

Originally posted by pyrrhus

i would say so

 

I would agree. Some of the best things you can do is set up an auto topoff to reduce salinity swings, and maintain a consistent WC schedule. Start with a clam around 3 inches for a better chance at survival, Like tres suggested.

[pyrrhus]

i have since one of my previous posts begun doing weekly WC's and stepped up my testing regimen as well as topping off twice a day morning and night mainly out of paranoia caused by people over at reefcentral but must admit they are good policys to use.

[birdman204]

These things assist in water parameter stability. Another crucial key to giant clam success.

might I suggest a Physh1 auto topoff switch? I use one on every tank I own...

www.californiareefs.com

[onthefly]

Since adding one to my tank and using it to drive Kalk addition.....my fluctuations have stopped!

 

The Physh1 ATO.........best thing I every bought for my tank!

 

It's about as convienent as a lazyboy with a never-ending pocket of ding dongs and ice-cold Pacifico's.

 

I'll never have another tank w/o one!

[pyrrhus]

wheres the best place to get a physh1 and how much do they go for?

[MGXsport]

I made an auto top off myself using the same exact things form this thread here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=12304

I don't have the cheapest parts either so they can be made for cheaper.

 

It consits of:

Aquatic Gardens Clear Air Line Tubing: $4.50

Lee's Thinwall Rigid Tubing: $1.30

Elite 802 Air pump: $9.00

Tube connectors: $2.50

Float Switch: $6.00

Extension cord: $1.00

5 gallon carboy container from ebay: $19.00

 

Whole thing for $54.80 saving some money, great. Not having to worry about water level for a few weeks priceless

[corey0613]

wow--

 

there sure is alot of crap being thrown around on this topic. the sad truth is that scientific research by dedicated marine biologist, PHd's, etc. has layed out a great guideline for success with clams. the leaps and bounds that the reef aquarium trade has made over the last 5-10 years is truely impressive. and then there are the people who want to scheme and scam and save a buck here and there to get what they want, with no disregard to whether or not they are actually providing conditions for the animal to truely survive in captivity like it is capable of doing. the person who said you can keep clams under PC's long term with successful growth and coloration is the exact same person who asked that question in the first place. someone who is looking for the easy way out to impress their friends with a maxima in a 6 gal tank for 8 months. im not saying that i am perfect and never got "greedy" in this trade, but @ some point you really have to start getting educated in the hobby that you are involved in and make some ethical decisions on the well being of the animals that you are attempting to raise.

 

i could keep you in a closet giving you small amounts of light, food, and water and you will live for a while. but what quality of life would you be living!

 

its the same principal with the clams/corals and until you view it as that you will still have people trying to "break the rules". wow you kept a clam alive for 8 months with PC maybe even a year. you should be so proud. now its dead and what did you gain?

 

there are reef keepers that take into account scientific method when performing their assessments of lighting, water quality, additives, but as previously mentioned, they arent on this board.

 

check out some of this data from the www.reefland.com members it truely will impress. look at the right hand side of the page on www.cnidarianreef.com there is a link that says 250W MH study. this data on wattage, PAR is truely remarkable and this is not a scientists site, it is a regular reef keeper.

 

if some one wants true scientific based, lengthy, logical answers on clams/lighting i would refer you to Ninong over @ www.reefland.com this mans wealth if information is truely captivating and is a good reminder of the work that must be done learning BEFORE keeping.

 

im sure you all are ####ed off and bitter but someone had to say something. im not pointing fingers but some of the suggestions put out on this board are downright rediculous. there.........i feel a little better!

[birdman204]

Yeah, but Corey, some people still won't listen , no matter what you throw at them, or if you and 20 thousand others scream it into their ears with a megaphone. I feel your pain.

[corey0613]

yeah birdman,

 

did you see the pic of the maxima that was attached. that looks pretty sad. poor extension and usually when they look like that they have poor light reflex also, and that guy is proud! its just too bad.

[birdman204]

This is my Squamosa in my wife's reef. Gil didn't snap a pic of the max we have... I also have an odd angled shot of my crocea, Both clams under halides, 250's in the 80, 70w in the minibow.

 

 

 

and here is a link to a shot from November. Gil ( and I ) was bummed that the gold area has grown into blue and black, I told him it was for the better

[corey0613]

very nice, full extension out over the mantle. the way a happy clam should look. nice work!!!!

[pyrrhus]

corey, if you can refer me to information about the PAR ratings of 96w powerquad PC's it would be greatly appreciated and i would be much more likely to believe they cant be kept under PC. from all the research i have done personally, and on the opinions of 2 well known and respected marine biologists Dr. Ron Shimek and Micheal Janes, clams can thrive under PC light of sufficient intensity especially in smaller tanks like we are talking about here, the true problem is not the light at the size of the clams we are talking about but feeding and water stability, both of which i do provide to my clams and from all the research i have done on the two types of lighting MH is not that much superior to PC in smaller tanks where less penetration is needed from the light. show me the PAR of PC ill compare it with MH and then maybe ill believe what you say.

[pyrrhus]

and by the way i made that clam retract the mantle to show the shell better. if i had ready access to a digi camera, i would be more than happy to show the current extension of the mantle on the maxima and the derasa i am currently keeping, which i assure you is very nice.

[pyrrhus]

poor light reflex not even close this clam is so reactive to light vibration of the tank(when i bump my desk) etc. that i doubt it is faring poorly in fact i am sure that it is doing very well.

[pyrrhus]

and here is a thread that i found over at RC with some VERY interesting numbers http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...alue+comparison

[corey0613]

you just said you did all the research on lighting and listened to 2 doctors. why are you wanting me to show you the info. on PC par you should already have it from your research, correct?

 

truth is no one gives a crap about the par of the 96w powerquad PC because reefkeepers keeping clams, SPS, arent researching on them because they arent even considering putting them on their setups.

 

thats why you found no data when you TRIED to research.

 

and your comment about "smaller" tanks is so generalized and far off it makes me laugh. my 25 gal is 1.5" deeper than my neighbors 90 gal long. explain that!

 

no amount of info is going to change your mind, i said it best in my first post. you are trying to save $$ at the cost of the animals that you attemp to raise.

 

i never said you couldnt keep a clam under PC's it just wont live as long as one under MH (provided that the conditions are the exact same). it WILL die!

 

BTW show us a pic of the maxima with full extension!

[corey0613]

you abviously arent a statistician or have never been in a intro level research course. those number you "provided" are indeed numbers and that is just that.

 

anytime the researcher says statements like...... "dont get mad @ me, or dont throw flames @ me, he/she obviously doesnt believe in the data they have collected otherwise they would stand firm in their observations.

 

there are all also many variables listed that must hold true or were unaccounted for.

 

as a basic rule for anything to be considered to be valid research it must list the following when presented:

1.intro- defining concepts and what the purpose is

2.methods- how are they collecting the data(quantitative vs. qualitative should be well defined).

3.results- with data analysis

4.discussion- findings, extraneous variables, uncontrolled happenings, etc.

5. references!!!!-- a clear list, preferably from peer reviewed "journals"

 

if you just see the results there is no way you can tell how it was collected. rule one of Statistics 101--- you can MAKE numbers say whatever youd like, proving it is another class!

 

lets see some real data!