TimDanger's CADlights 39g Pro

[timdanger]

Hey Tim, you should always use teflon tape with threaded connections (except unions which have a rubber gasket), and purple primer with slip connections. Wherever you need parts to be removable, use a union rather than threaded PVC parts. Also, when tightening plastic threads, do not overtighten! A quarter to half turn beyond hand tight is fine.

 

I can't see your tank so don't know exactly what you are talking about on all fronts, but splashes from the drain into the sump may be easily cured by just putting the drain line exit under water.

 

Sounds like it's herbie time, though! Put the primary drain under the water level, and the safety drain over the water level (I mean in the sump), so you'll have an audible warning that your main drain needs adjusting. I'd also highly recommend a gate valve for the drain adjustment valve. I used a ball valve on my 90g, and it was pretty imprecise. I'd imagine on a small tank that small level of adjustment would be critical. You'll need to order the gate valve online, though, most likely.

 

Let me know if you have any questions about how to plumb the herbie drains!

 

This is all very helpful, B -- thank you! The "what to use and when and why" is what I'm trying to figure out -- never knew the advantage of the union joint (still don't know if I really need it -- I guess I don't really plan on removing the valve other than for cleaning, but the rubber gasket sounds convenient!).

 

Also good to know that I don't need to channel-lock the threaded stuff in place. that will make life a lot easier when i have to undo the valve later today so I can teflon tape the threads (though it's going to be a pain to loosen that thing).

 

as far as my current problem, i really think it's built-up backpressure in the durso that's causing the gurgling i'm getting.

 

Still weighing the pros/cons of the herbie. so, let's say hypothetically that the main drain clogs, shifting over to the emergency drain. everything drains out of the emergency drain into the sump/i hear splashing/i know to check something because something's gone wrong. but, what if i'm not there to check it? how long does the emergency drain work? until it clogs?

 

I will say, a definite advantage of the herbie over other setups is that I don't have to use so many short lengths of tubes (almost ends up creating a rigid tube between the return bulkhead on the tank and the eheim). very hard to work with.

 

correct me if i'm wrong, but the idea behind the herbie is just that you create a siphon that drains under water, you adjust the siphon with a valve to make sure you have the right amount of water flowing through it so that you aren't drawing air, and that silences everything? and, the emergency standpipe is just to take over in case the main drain gets clogged?

 

if this is all correct, i wonder if there's any alternative available to the emergency drain. For instance, what about a split drain/emergency drain connected together with a T and using a gate valve submerged in the overflow (or would this screw up the siphon?). Or, what about a clever use of float switches (there'd need to be something that, when turned off, can ensure that it stays off, so that when the water level in the overflow falls to normal operating levels, it won't kick on the return pump and start the cycle over again)?

[becact]

If you read the herbie thread on RC that will answer a lot of your questions. Basically you have a main drain which is just an open ended PVC pipe and a safety drain which is several inches higher and also an open PVC pipe. You use a gate valve under the stand (not in the overflow) on the main drain to tune its flow rate to match your return pump, so that the water level stays between the two drains in your overflow. If the main drain gets clogged, the water level will rise and the safety will take over. The safety should be able to handle 100% of the flow, in case the main drain gets clogged completely. I also used a strainer over the main drain so a snail could not crawl down there. Also, splashes and such in the overflow will not make noise, since the water level is a few inches over the main drain.

 

I think you're over complicating things with your ideas of Ts and float switches. The herbie drain is supposed to be simple, and it really is dead silent. You seem to have an aversion to running the return line over the back of the tank, but no one looks at the back of a tank anyway. If you hard plumb it, run it close to the back of the tank, and paint the line black it will look stock. Tons of stuff can go wrong with float switches and complicated plumbing schemes.

 

Also, the only union you should need would be right after the return pump, in case you need to service it.

[timdanger]

If you read the herbie thread on RC that will answer a lot of your questions. Basically you have a main drain which is just an open ended PVC pipe and a safety drain which is several inches higher and also an open PVC pipe. You use a gate valve under the stand (not in the overflow) on the main drain to tune its flow rate to match your return pump, so that the water level stays between the two drains in your overflow. If the main drain gets clogged, the water level will rise and the safety will take over. The safety should be able to handle 100% of the flow, in case the main drain gets clogged completely. I also used a strainer over the main drain so a snail could not crawl down there. Also, splashes and such in the overflow will not make noise, since the water level is a few inches over the main drain.

 

I think you're over complicating things with your ideas of Ts and float switches. The herbie drain is supposed to be simple, and it really is dead silent. You seem to have an aversion to running the return line over the back of the tank, but no one looks at the back of a tank anyway. If you hard plumb it, run it close to the back of the tank, and paint the line black it will look stock. Tons of stuff can go wrong with float switches and complicated plumbing schemes.

 

Also, the only union you should need would be right after the return pump, in case you need to service it.

 

Thanks a lot for the advice, B.

 

It's 11;30PM, and I am officially done with the Durso on this tank. Most of what I tried tonight was adjusting the size of the hole. I was able to silence it for about 60% of operation time, but because I couldn't get it to maintain the correct water level, it would slurp every time the water would flush out of the overflow. i tried all kinds of things (teflon tape, rubber bands, air valve on the hose, even hollowing out the center of a suction cup to try and recreate the hole in the endcap) -- no consistently tolerable results.

 

I am going to skip the Hofer, too -- I see this as being just as potentially problematic as the durso, and i think its as likely to create problems as fix them. So, i'm not going to waste my time on it.

 

I also agree with you about skipping the float switches/Ts. Trying the simple solution first, the one that makes the most sense to me, so that I can sleep, seems like the way to go.

 

So, after doing some more reading (I read a few pages of the Herbie thread, plus several other threads), Herbie it is. I guess I have been resisting because, you're right, I didn't want to run a return line up the back because it just seemed like i was asking for trouble. I don't have any particular aesthetic opposition to it - it just seems harder to do, and I worry about losing GPH as i deal with joints/loops/etc. But, screw it, I'm just going to (try to) do it.

 

So, particulars:

1) I was thinking of using flexible tubing for the return (just because I haven't done any hard plumbing other than on the bulkheads for this tank). Bad idea/worth hard plumbing? I kind of like the idea of hard plumbing better, but with having to go out the back of the cabinet, won't that end up being a hassle with extra joints/etc. that end up reducing GPH? But, what kind of piece do I need to get it up and over the edge of the tank and then back down into the tank? Something U-shaped? I was hoping for something I could buy locally.

 

2) after the "U" back into the overflow, I am assuming I "T" off the return line to push water into the two loclines. sound right?

 

3) I'll just use standard PVC pipes for the drains, but can I use flexible hose for the drain pipes on the other side of the bulkhead, or do they have to be straight up-and-down vertical?

 

EDIT: I've seen people use flexible tubing for a Herbie, so I'm going to assume that I can do the same!

 

4) I think (but don't remember for sure) that the Cad bulkheads are 1 1/4" for the drain and 3/4" for the return. For the Herbie, can I use the bigger bulkhead for the main drain and rely on the 3/4" for the emergency drain? The reason I ask is because it seems like I might run into trouble trying to drain the 900gph eheim through a 3/4" bulkhead if the bigger one got clogged. thoughts?

 

5) assuming I can't find a gate valve locally, am I going to regret trying to make this work with a ball valve until I can get one delivered? Or should I just special order the pieces I need?

[timdanger]

I found some 3/4" gate valves locally -- is that going to be too small for this application? I'm actually not even sure what size the cadlights bulkheads actually are -- i know that the stock hoses are 1 1/4" and 3/4" -- but does that make the bulkheads 1" and 1/2"? Maybe I just need to call Eddie to ask.

 

it seems so much smaller than a ball valve of the same internal diameter.

 

another weird thing since I installed the eheim: i'm getting a wicked vibration from somewhere -- i don't know exactly what's causing it, but it's vibrating the whole stand/tank/light fixture. you'd think it was the eheim, but i open the cabinet to listen, and it doesn't sound like the eheim itself making the noise. the vibration hum is actually more noticeable at the top of the tank. very unusual. any thoughts?

[timdanger]

thinking, reading -- new idea:

 

1) return the eheim 1262 (it is costing/causing more problems than it's solving at this point, it feels like, especially at nearly the cost of a vortech mp10);

 

2) replace it with something like the tunze silence 1073.020 (~635gph) ($85 at MD); and

 

3) just rely on a vortech for flow (which I was going to do anyway) instead of worrying with hassles accompanying the faster circulating pump.

 

this seems like a reasonable idea to me. the advantage of the eheim is basically just having a little more directional/directable flow in the tank. but, frankly, i can just get a koralia and accomplish the same thing.

 

thoughts?

[becact]

Thinking that the return pump is a source of flow is the wrong school of thought, IMHO. The return pump is merely a tool to circulate water through the sump. All the flow in the display should be accomplished with secondary pumps, preferably a vortech. Directional flow sucks anyway.

[timdanger]

Thinking that the return pump is a source of flow is the wrong school of thought, IMHO. The return pump is merely a tool to circulate water through the sump. All the flow in the display should be accomplished with secondary pumps, preferably a vortech. Directional flow sucks anyway.

 

i'm on board with this. i think the eheim 1262 would be a nice addition if i could use it without the accompanying drain noise/etc. -- but it's a lot of work to deal with it.

 

so, last night, i took the eheim out and put the Quiet One 2200 back in (also added some thread tape and replaced my 3/4" ball valve with a 3/4" gate valve!) while I wait for my long term solution to arrive -- it was like going from niagra falls to a trickling mountain stream. happily reporting that i slept like a baby last night. that being said, the Quiet One does make a bit of a hum.

 

I decided on the Tunze 1073.020 ($85 at MD) as my long term solution here, which has adjustable flow up to 634gph, and only uses 30W of electricity. Chose that over the Eheim Compact 2000+ or 3000+, both of which have adjustable flow, but are more expensive per gph ($90 and $130 respectively).

 

EDIT: Incidentally, I owe many props to Marine Depot for working with me to exchange the Eheim. Not only were they willing to take it back (despite their return policy), but they also agreed to ship the Tunze 1073.020 to me, expedited (2-day), for free (so, I ordered it this morning, and it's going to get here on Wednesday).

[timdanger]

my wife FTW:

 

 

Merry Christmas to me.

 

(many, many updates to follow)

[timdanger]

FTS/FDS (Kona thought I was taking a picture of HER):

 

 

So, I thought I'd try to get a picture of her with the tank -- but then she lost interest:

 

 

oh well.

[timdanger]

A few inhabitants pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From several weeks back: Jaws spies a bit of mysis... stuck to the outside of the glass. happily, i have gotten rid of most of this cyano. sadly, much of the GHA remains.

[Rehype]

Awesome shots Tim!

[timdanger]

Quick story from over the holiday, with a Christmas miracle ending!

 

So, I was out at my 4th different grocery store in 2 days, when my wife calls in a panic. She said that Jaws (the bluespot jawfish) had jumped out of the tank, and that although he was back in the water now, he wasn't moving.

 

so, i'm like " ."

 

I have her dose some Prime (for the slime coat), make sure the other fish aren't messing with him, turn off all the lights and then move away from the tank. But, I don't know what else is going on, so I try to clam my wife down so she can explain what happened. I definitely didn't understand how Jaws had jumped out, as the lid I made really doesn't have a place even close to small enough for him to get through.

 

She then tells me that he jumped out, but he didn't jump to the ground -- get this -- he jumped up THROUGH one of the holes in the eggcrate, and then was able to turn himself enough to wedge himself between the eggcrate and the window mesh that I have layered over the eggcrate! so, he got his whole body between the eggcrate and the window mesh, which, if you saw the way it sits together, is flat out miraculous.

 

I then find out that my sister-in-law, who is the other hero of this story, actually heard it happen and screamed for my wife, who rushed up the stairs and managed to dislodge him, which again, because of the way the mesh/eggcrate are situated, couldn't have been easy. But, Jaws was apparently out of water for only about 30 seconds (how's that for an emergency response crew??), and there were no apparent injuries/sores/marks on him.

 

So, by that time, my wife said that Jaws had started "flexing" his jaws. And, after a few minutes, he slowly swam off into his burrow. Over the next couple hours, he started poking his head out from his burrow in different places. And, about 12 hours later, we fed the tank a little bit, and he ate some (he is usually a voracious eater, but he was definitely last in the pecking order at that time).

 

We left the tank lights off for a couple of days, but kept an eye on him -- he got better and better every time we saw him, and after 3 days, he was back to normal!

 

We're now 5 days from the "incident," and it's as if it never happened. So, at least in my mind, my wife and sister-in-law are heroes, and it turns out my man Jaws is a tough critter. Needless to say, though, we need to figure out a different solution for a lid, and I certainly no longer endorse the type of lid I've built here.

 

 

Awesome shots Tim!

 

thanks E. "focus" leaves something to be desired, but I feel like I'm slowly improving.

[timdanger]

During my last water change, I (er, my wife) scrubbed off as much GHA as we could off of the rocks with a toothbrush. It was surprisingly effective at kind of trimming things down to something more manageable for the CUC.

 

I also added an emerald grab to see what he could do for me. I had a single bubble of valonia that I was able to remove during the water change without bursting, but I figure, better safe than sorry. A week later, I haven't seen a second bubble. The emerald crab, in the meantime, appears to be eating some GHA. I still don't know that the situation is "under control," but it is decidedly better than it was.

 

In other news, I have a fish (i'm assuming Jaws the jawfish) that is splashing around several times during the night. He hasn't gotten himself caught again, but I am now getting nervous every time, and wind up getting up to check to make sure he's not lodged in the canopy again.

 

Updates with pictures forthcoming on the Vortech mp10, the JBJ ATO system and the Tunze 1073.020.

[timdanger]

Funny, when I bought the Pro package, the glass top was advertized to come with it...and I didn't get one. It didn't matter much to me because I wasn't going to use a top anyways as IMO it takes away from the beauty of this tank.

 

About gas exchange...I wouldn't worry too much about that if you plan on using a glass lid. There are so many AIO tanks that have closed hood designs. I have been running my 29 Biocube with a closed hood for over 9 months and haven't had any problems. Besides, the 39 Pro has a sump...and what better place for gas exchange than an area of the system that has the most turbulence.

 

Rehashing an old topic!

 

So, I talked to Eddie again yesterday about the glass tops. He said that they were supposed to be on the website by now and he can't figure out why they aren't. He's going back to California on Sunday (which is where the glass tops distribute from) and he said he'd get one out to me on Monday if I wanted one.

 

Something (I still assume the jawfish, so we'll just say Jaws) was splashing around a LOT last night. Jaws must've splashed/jumped about 12-15 times. This would bother me much less if he hadn't gotten stuck that one time, but now I'm worried every single time that he's stuck.

 

So, anyway, the glass lid would certainly fix things. But, here are the issues that concern me:

 

1) reduced par. this may be further exacerbated if Cad is using the same 1/4"-thick glass that they use on the 22g lids they sell.

 

2) increased heat. My tank is pretty consistently between 79.2-79.9F since installing the Tunze 1073.020 return pump. Obviously, I can still run fan(s) in the sump for evaporation, so I can still get that. And, my top-off reservoir is unheated, so that will also cool the water as it's added. But, there seems to be no denying that a glass top heats up the tank. The jawfish is a cooler-water species, as well. I don't want to invest in a cooler. How much is this going to pump up the heat of the tank?

 

3) decreased gas exchange/subsequent pH drop. Obviously a lot of people run closed-top systems (most AIOs, for that matter). This system has the added bonus of having a sump/skimmer. But, with the closed cabinet, and no fans to draw in new air/expel out old air (leading to a potential CO2 buildup in the cabinet), am I looking at something detrimental? I feel like I should be ok here, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

 

The advantage of the glass lid over the alternative (basically, a net like Becact is using) for me is that 1) because the glass has a hinged door, it is more convenient for feeding/everyday maintenance because I wouldn't have to remove the light/top all the time; 2) the glass definitely won't melt, whereas the net top might; 3) the glass doesn't create a "rim" around the top of this otherwise rimless tank.

 

On the other hand, the net top doesn't reduce par much and won't have the same gas exchang/heat build-up issues. And, I guess I could maybe build in some kind of hinge to the net top, eh?

 

I keep going back and forth on it, but I need to make up my mind soon. Any opinions?

[mkregs]

If you get a glass lid, you might consider having a cutout where the overflow box is. That would allow for extra ventilation...then add a fan or 2 to get the cooling results you're looking for (maybe 1 over the overflow and 1 in the sump area).

[timdanger]

If you get a glass lid, you might consider having a cutout where the overflow box is. That would allow for extra ventilation...then add a fan or 2 to get the cooling results you're looking for (maybe 1 over the overflow and 1 in the sump area).

 

I thought about that -- I also thought about drilling holes in the glass to "vent" it a little bit. but, the cadlights glass is tempered, so I think that means: "you've got what you get when you get it." I do already have two fans going on it -- the 'double-fan' (azoo style) is over the overflow and the larger single fan is over the return pump chamber in the sump.

 

I re-read through Becact's thread a little bit. I'm actually kind of leaning toward the concept of taking his net top model and adding a hinge to it. After looking at it, aesthetically, it really doesn't add THAT much of a rim, and it's certainly an improvement over what I was using at the moment. So, the loan remaining issue is "will it melt?" If I knew it wouldn't melt under the halide, I think I would be sold.

[becact]

I re-read through Becact's thread a little bit. I'm actually kind of leaning toward the concept of taking his net top model and adding a hinge to it. After looking at it, aesthetically, it really doesn't add THAT much of a rim, and it's certainly an improvement over what I was using at the moment. So, the loan remaining issue is "will it melt?" If I knew it wouldn't melt under the halide, I think I would be sold.

 

I can alleviate that concern for you, as there are people using the same mesh under halides. Especially if you have a fan running, there won't be any problems. Too bad you don't live closer, I'd let you borrow mine since I'm not using it to see if you like it. I don't think there's any need to add a hinge, I simply slid mine back a few inches when I needed to feed or add stuff to the tank.

[timdanger]

I can alleviate that concern for you, as there are people using the same mesh under halides. Especially if you have a fan running, there won't be any problems. Too bad you don't live closer, I'd let you borrow mine since I'm not using it to see if you like it. I don't think there's any need to add a hinge, I simply slid mine back a few inches when I needed to feed or add stuff to the tank.

 

Ah -- excellent news about the non-meltiness! I do have a fan that I could angle so it blew across the top of it (that was going to be my plan). Thanks for the info, B. If I can get the wife's approval, I'll purchase the netting tonight! Where did you find those clips for yours? I've looked around but haven't found anything good yet.

 

Re: the hinge, I have the cad pro model, so I have back corners to cover, too. With a fan mounted back there, wouldn't that keep me from being able to slide it back and forth? I can't tell how far down your top sits inside the glass/how thick the frame is. I'm not able to slide my current cover back and forth because of the fan, though.

 

Unrelated note, did you happen to see my question to you on Eugene's thread (hijack city) about the vortech? I'm still messing around with that situation (though I think returning the vortech is kind of out of the question now that I've been using it for a week, so I'd have to find someone willing to trade me an mp20 for an mp10, even if I decided that I wanted to go that route).

[becact]

Ah -- excellent news about the non-meltiness! I do have a fan that I could angle so it blew across the top of it (that was going to be my plan). Thanks for the info, B. If I can get the wife's approval, I'll purchase the netting tonight! Where did you find those clips for yours? I've looked around but haven't found anything good yet.

 

Re: the hinge, I have the cad pro model, so I have back corners to cover, too. With a fan mounted back there, wouldn't that keep me from being able to slide it back and forth? I can't tell how far down your top sits inside the glass/how thick the frame is. I'm not able to slide my current cover back and forth because of the fan, though.

 

Unrelated note, did you happen to see my question to you on Eugene's thread (hijack city) about the vortech? I'm still messing around with that situation (though I think returning the vortech is kind of out of the question now that I've been using it for a week, so I'd have to find someone willing to trade me an mp20 for an mp10, even if I decided that I wanted to go that route).

 

The clips came with my tank. As for the sliding, you'll have to figure something out yourself, as I don't have a pro model!

 

What question did you have on the Vortech? I use an MP40w, and can crank it almost all the way up without disturbing anything. I leave it between 50-80% usually. And my display volume is smaller than yours, as well. When my SPS start growing and grow into the water column, I will need the extra flow and may have to turn it to 100%. For that reason I'd suggest an MP40 for our tanks.

[timdanger]

New Christmas Toys update!:

 

Tunze 1073.020. Couldn't be happier. As I've said, it's dead silent. This pump is perfect: silent, energy efficient (only 30w for 634gph), low heat, very compact size. the flow is adjustable on the pump itself down to 20gph! I'm running it wide open though. this works great with the cad's stock durso pump, no adjustments required. several pictures of this, since there seem to be so few out there:

 

my operating mode (submerged):

 

alternative mode (external):

 

a few pictures of the adjustable flow control (works like a gate valve):

 

 

JBJ ATO. As i've mentioned before, my float valve stuck the very first time i tested the thing. I've managed to work on it a fair amount to get to more precise, and it's been good since then. left it for several days when i went away for new year's, and it's kept the water level fairly stable, within 1/4" or so of where I've marked in my sump as the "fill" line. i'm running it in "Mode B" with both float valves in the return pump chamber of my sump. my top-off bucket is sitting next to my tank with the stock pump from my biocube 8g pumping water through a 5/8" hose in through the rear of the cabinet and into the return pump chamber.

 

i'm rather nervous about it still, and a little disappointed about the fact that the float valve stuck on the first use. this seems like one of those only a "matter of time until failure" situations. I guess I'm just going to have to keep an eye on it.

 

 

 

Vortech mp10. fairly happy with this, even for the expensive price. as others have said, at least an mp20 would've been better, but i think it just comes down to up-front cost at this point (especially since i've got so many other start-up purchases i'm making lately). anyway, definitely makes more of a racket than i was expecting, but it mostly gets drowned out by my other loud "day time" fans on the halide, in the sump. And, the night mode is nice and doesn't keep me up at night. i'm still messing with the placement, as i'm still finding dead spots in some corners. much better than where i was, though. I am probably going to be supplementing flow, or maybe just reducing the amount of LR in the tank, which seems to create a lot of problems. i don't mean to disparage the product, though -- it definitely feels like it's doing a good job of stirring things up.

[Rehype]

Congrats on the new toys tim!

[timdanger]

Congrats on the new toys tim!

 

Thanks E. I like 'em!

[mkregs]

Tim,

With the flow rate of the Tunze being 634gph, would you say it is providing more, less, or about the same amount of gph as the stock pump? I know the stock pump was advertized to go 700gph, but I doubt it as it seems to be a pretty cheap pump.

 

Congrats on your Christmas toys! You'll love the Vortech! I've had a MP20 on my Biocube for several months and it's been great...no regrets, even at the high price tag.

Mark

[timdanger]

Tim,

With the flow rate of the Tunze being 634gph, would you say it is providing more, less, or about the same amount of gph as the stock pump? I know the stock pump was advertized to go 700gph, but I doubt it as it seems to be a pretty cheap pump.

 

The Tunze does not give as much flow as the stock pump, but that has helped substantially in quieting down the drain system. I haven't touched anything about the drain system (other than changing out the filter sock) since I installed the Tunze. That was huge for me.

 

However, if you want more flow from your return pump, Tunze also makes the 1073.040, which gives you 792gph (my 1073.020 gives me 634gph). As a bonus, it only uses 10 extra watts to get that higher flow. And, that pump is adjustable, too. It is, however, substantially more expensive (MD sells the 020 for for $85, the 040 for $143). I went with the lower flow model with the idea that I'd be getting most of my flow from the vortech, i knew it could cut down on noise, and the cost savings was substantial.

 

I never had any flow problems with the stock pump. It gave me less than the eheim 1262, obviously, but it was substantially more than the QuietOne 2200 (~550gph as I recall) and more than the Tunze as well. I think the stock pump I had was advertised at 750gph. I wonder if you got an older (or newer) model?

 

Congrats on your Christmas toys! You'll love the Vortech! I've had a MP20 on my Biocube for several months and it's been great...no regrets, even at the high price tag.

Mark

 

Thanks! I'm still hoping that I didn't under-buy getting the 10 instead of the 20, but looking at it strictly based on the GPH, I can't imagine I'm missing out on too much. And, if I still end up with dead spots after messing around with it, I can add another powerhead in there to take care of it.

[Screename_116]

What kind of dog is that?