Nano Sapiens 12g - Ye Olde Mixed Reef

[Nano sapiens]

^^ that's quite good, actually. May be something to build on the weekend

[teenyreef]

I have had similar conditions on my zoas, and had the same lack of luck in finding anything about it. I'll see if I can dig up any of the pictures I took back when I first saw it.

 

I had very good luck by promptly spot treating them with peroxide, with repeated treatments every week or two until they stay better. In most cases, I saw improvement within a day or two.

 

Having said that, I've seen this in both the old 4g and the 10g tank, and I've never gotten rid of it permanently. But I can take a frag of zoas with this condition out of the 10g tank, and put it in the 40g tank, and it gets better and stays better like magic. No peroxide needed. So there's something present in the 10g tank that isn't in the 40g tank....or there something in the 40g tank that eats the stuff. I can't explain it, but in case you have the same condition, maybe this information will help a little bit.

[Nano sapiens]

I have had similar conditions on my zoas, and had the same lack of luck in finding anything about it. I'll see if I can dig up any of the pictures I took back when I first saw it.

 

I had very good luck by promptly spot treating them with peroxide, with repeated treatments every week or two until they stay better. In most cases, I saw improvement within a day or two.

 

Having said that, I've seen this in both the old 4g and the 10g tank, and I've never gotten rid of it permanently. But I can take a frag of zoas with this condition out of the 10g tank, and put it in the 40g tank, and it gets better and stays better like magic. No peroxide needed. So there's something present in the 10g tank that isn't in the 40g tank....or there something in the 40g tank that eats the stuff. I can't explain it, but in case you have the same condition, maybe this information will help a little bit.

 

Good info and thanks for sharing. Why they would be healthy in your one tank and not another is a mystery for sure. Peroxide dipping zoanthids is an interesting option. I'll need to get a much closer look at whatever these threadlike things are and then see if they are something that might respond to some form of treatment.

 

Thing with Zoanthids is that I suspect there are different causes for what look like similar symptoms to us. I also suspect that yearly cycles and temperature may play a part as many have experienced things like Zoa Pox in the winter, but not in the summer. They are strange little creatures and maybe one day in the future we'll more fully understand how to prevent and cure these problems more effectively.

[Nano sapiens]

Time for the 'ol quarterly update...

 

System still running fine.  A few issues with certain types of Zoanthids not fully expanding (all on the right side of tank).  May be the Pedersons Anemone Shrimp causing irritation since they like to hook onto the larger Zoas with their feet day and night.  Having the Bimaculatus Blenny frequently perching on the Petroglyphs certainly isn't helping

 

Major pruning last week of all SPS so tank is a bit sparce looking up top.  Had baggies full of cuttings, especially Green Birdsnest, which I trimmed down to stubs, and Ultra Blue Digitata.

 

'Shrooms hang'in out:

 

Yumas being overshadowed a bit by their Florida cousins:

 

Orange Blasto puffing up amid Zoanthids, Pink Stylocoeniella and Seriatopra:

 

Really glad to see this Mussid doing well for so long after the mystery illness took out my old Acan colonies (amusing to see it being man-handled by a bunch of little Zoas).

 

Fish wise, currently have (2) Green-Banded gobies and tha male is a porker at very nearly 2" and thick as my pinky.  Original female dissappeared one day, but the tiny replacement I obtained is growing nicely.  ORA Yellow Cleaner Goby still in good shape even though partner disappeared many months back.

 

Had (3) Pedersons shrimp, now have two.  Beautiful shrimp, but a bit too pesky for a small nano tank with Zoas.  After they pass away, I plan to replace these with Venus Anemone Shrimp which I found prefer to stay with the Ricorida where they do no harm.

 

Cut WC's in half to 5%/wk.  2 months now and no noticeable changes in the tank.  I don't anticipate any issues as very mature tanks tend to do just fine with less volume/less frequent WCs as long as the maintenance is maintained.

 

Cut lighting down by ~10% since i noticed some minor bleaching when I started using a new and different salt blend for WCs (40% Red Sea Blue + 60% Tropic Marin Classic).  Side effect is some slowing of the rampant SPS growth and susequent reduction in the Ca/Alk usage, which is fine.

 

[WV Reefer]

5 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

Time for the 'ol quarterly update...

 

System still running fine.  A few issues with certain types of Zoanthids not fully expanding (all on the right side of tank).  May be the Pedersons Anemone Shrimp causing irritation since they like to hook onto the larger Zoas with their feet day and night.  Having the Bimaculatus Blenny frequently perching on the Petroglyphs certainly isn't helping

 

Major pruning last week of all SPS so tank is a bit a bit looking up top.  Had baggies full, especially Green Birdsnest, which I trimmed down to stubs, and Ultra Blue Digitata.

 

'Shrooms hang'in out:

 

 

Yumas being overshadowed a bit by their Florida cousins:

 

 

Orange Blasto puffing up amid Zoanthids, Pink Stylocoeniella and Seriatopra:

 

 

Really glad to see this Mussid doing well for so long after the mystery illness took out my old Acan colonies (amusing to see it being man-handled by a bunch of little Zoas).

 

Fish wise, currently have (2) Green-Banded gobies and tha male is a porker at very nearly 2" and thick as my pinky.  Original female dissappeared one day, but the tiny replacement I obtained is growing nicely.  ORA Yellow Cleaner Goby still in good shape even though partner disappeared many months back.

 

Had (3) Pedersons shrimp, now have two.  Beautiful shrimp, but a bit too pesky for a small nano tank with Zoas.  After they pass away, I plan to replace these with Venus Anemone Shrimp which I found prefer to stay with the Ricorida where they do no harm.

 

Cut WC's in half to 5%/wk.  2 months now and no noticeable changes in the tank.  I don't anticipate any issues as very mature tanks tend to do just fine with less frequent WCs as long as the maintenance schedule is maintained.

 

Cut lighting down by ~10% since i noticed some minor bleaching when I started using a new and different salt blend for WCs (40% Red Sea Blue + 60% Tropic Marin Classic).  Side effect is some slowing of the rampant SPS growth and susequent reduction in the Ca/Alk usage, which is fine.

 

 

 

 

 

Love that mushroom pile!

[jedimasterben]

Still looking awesome as always, Ralph! Sorry to hear about the fish losses! I have had about the same luck, if not worse, with the small gobies, and have not been able to figure out why.

[Nano sapiens]

10 minutes ago, WV Reefer said:

Love that mushroom pile!

 

Thanks.  A big old pile of 'mushiness', it is!

[Nano sapiens]

2 minutes ago, jedimasterben said:

Still looking awesome as always, Ralph! Sorry to hear about the fish losses! I have had about the same luck, if not worse, with the small gobies, and have not been able to figure out why.

 

Sorry to hear you've had similar experiences.  What's really odd is that in both my Goby species, the ones that disappeared were doing fine and spawning, actually, up to the day they were no more.  My first though was they may have jumped, but many checks later...nothing.  Perhaps something went wrong with egg production or egg laying...who knows?

 

The Pederson's make up for the missing spawn as the female is perpetually with eggs and broadcasts the larvae every 2-3 weeks.  It'll be interesting to see how long they can keep this up...

[jedimasterben]

8 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

 

Sorry to hear you've had similar experiences.  What's really odd is that in both my Goby species, the ones that disappeared were doing fine and spawning, actually, up to the day they were no more.  My first though was they may have jumped, but many checks later...nothing.  Perhaps something went wrong with egg production or egg laying...who knows?

 

The Pederson's make up for the missing spawn as the female is perpetually with eggs and broadcasts the larvae every 2-3 weeks.  It'll be interesting to see how long they can keep this up...

Same thing here except spawning, as I've usually not kept them in pairs. They'll be eating voraciously, not skittish or anything, and they just disappear one day, never to be seen again. It has persisted across tanks with different rock, etc, so that pretty much rules out some sort of unknown predator. 

[Nano sapiens]

43 minutes ago, jedimasterben said:

Same thing here except spawning, as I've usually not kept them in pairs. They'll be eating voraciously, not skittish or anything, and they just disappear one day, never to be seen again. It has persisted across tanks with different rock, etc, so that pretty much rules out some sort of unknown predator. 

 

One of the big difficulties is we really don't know how old they are when we get them, so their lifespan may be already limited.  Size may not always be the best guidline since they can remain smaller in nature if they don't get enough food or are at the bottom of the pecking order, and then grow like crazy in a well fed reef tank with minimal competion and no predators.

 

I've done quite a bit of reading on these little reef micropredators and typically they're strategy is to be in a continuous mode of reproduce since predation is so high for them in the reef environment.  Besides the small size, I think they just burn themselves out quicker.

[teenyreef]

Both @gena and I have noticed our gbgs really swollen around the gills and head the day before they die. They just don't seem to live more than two or three years unfortunately. 

[Nano sapiens]

2 hours ago, teenyreef said:

Both @gena and I have noticed our gbgs really swollen around the gills and head the day before they die. They just don't seem to live more than two or three years unfortunately. 

 

That's interesting that they would show such symptoms.  I'll have to keep my eyes open.  2-3 yrs is a long time for these little gobies.  Some of the little Eviota only live a few months, such as the record holder of the shortest lifespan of a vertebrate, which belongs to Eviota sigillata (they only live for 8 weeks or so in the wild).

[J-Ranko]

Tank's looking great as usual!  What kind of parameters do you get by  mixing 40% Red Sea Blue + 60% Tropic Marin Classic?  I've tried three different salt mixes: Tropic Marin, Tropic Marin Pro Reef, and currently Red Sea Coral Pro.  I liked the NSW-like properties of Tropic Marin but found the calcium too low.

 

It seems you need to dose frequently or have a calcium reactor to use them long-term.  The RSCP on, the other hand, might be a little excessive in its elevated calcium and alkalinity.  I've thought about using a mixture of the two like yours.

[teenyreef]

48 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

 

That's interesting that they would show such symptoms.  I'll have to keep my eyes open.  2-3 yrs is a long time for these little gobies.  Some of the little Eviota only live a few months, such as the record holder of the shortest lifespan of a vertebrate, which belongs to Eviota sigillata (they only live for 8 weeks or so in the wild).

Yes, I should have said 2-3 years seems to be the top end, not that average. I've been very lucky, Roosevelt just died and he's only about a month shy of two years old, counting from the I got him (who knows how old he was really). And Jefferson is still going strong.

[Nano sapiens]

51 minutes ago, J-Ranko said:

Tank's looking great as usual!  What kind of parameters do you get by  mixing 40% Red Sea Blue + 60% Tropic Marin Classic?  I've tried three different salt mixes: Tropic Marin, Tropic Marin Pro Reef, and currently Red Sea Coral Pro.  I liked the NSW-like properties of Tropic Marin but found the calcium too low.

 

It seems you need to dose frequently or have a calcium reactor to use them long-term.  The RSCP on, the other hand, might be a little excessive in its elevated calcium and alkalinity.  I've thought about using a mixture of the two like yours.

 

Thanks.  Now that I think about it, my 40/60 mix might also have a little IO in it since I just threw together what I had left over.  I get around 9.2 dKh Alk and 410 ppm CA.  Just use Kalkwasser to maintain in between WCs.

 

My previous mix had all three plus RC in near eaqual ratios and worked out really well.

57 minutes ago, teenyreef said:

Yes, I should have said 2-3 years seems to be the top end, not that average. I've been very lucky, Roosevelt just died and he's only about a month shy of two years old, counting from the I got him (who knows how old he was really). And Jefferson is still going strong.

 

I'd be happy if mine go 2 years.  Long live Jeffereson!

[Nano sapiens]

Something really tiny...a hitchhiker 'Shroom (as far as I can tell).  I't's less than 1/4" when fully expanded and I noticed it about 2 months ago when it was literally just a pinhead speck, so it is growing.  It is attached to the same rock that a small Yuma was on, so I know it's Indo-pacific.  The mouth is exverted and it has moved very slowly over many weeks/months time like a typical 'Shroom, so I believe that it's not an anemone:

 

 

The odd shaped swollen tipped, club shaped/striped tentacles remind me of something I've seen a photo of, but I can't quite put my finger on it (possibly an odd Yuma that will start looking more typically Yuma-ish once it grows up).

[natalia_la_loca]

I had the same experience with greenbanded gobies in my old Nuvo 8.  They were active and eating but all disappeared one by one over the course of a few months.  I did find that one had jumped, but the rest just went missing. 

 

Your tank looks amazing as always.  I've started reading your thread from the beginning as I drink coffee in the mornings.  I've been thinking very seriously about trying to replicate your system, but have thus far decided against it because I need another tank like a fish needs a bicycle.

[Weetabix7]

This tank is really looking beautiful.

 

I had been considering getting Pederson's Anemone Shrimp, but maybe I should do Venus after reading your comments. I've never seen the Venus Shrimp listed for sale though. Where do you find them?

[natalia_la_loca]

 

16 minutes ago, Weetabix7 said:

This tank is really looking beautiful.

 

I had been considering getting Pederson's Anemone Shrimp, but maybe I should do Venus after reading your comments. I've never seen the Venus Shrimp listed for sale though. Where do you find them?

 

Liveaquaria apparently has them from time to time (but not currently).  According to that site, they max out at 1.25 inches and like hanging out on stinging corals like euphyllia.  I wonder if one of them would do well with the frogspawn in my reefbowl.  I would love to have a crustacean in there but don't want to risk them irritating or damaging my more sensitive corals.

 

[Nano sapiens]

31 minutes ago, natalia_la_loca said:

I had the same experience with greenbanded gobies in my old Nuvo 8.  They were active and eating but all disappeared one by one over the course of a few months.  I did find that one had jumped, but the rest just went missing. 

 

Your tank looks amazing as always.  I've started reading your thread from the beginning as I drink coffee in the mornings.  I've been thinking very seriously about trying to replicate your system, but have thus far decided against it because I need another tank like a fish needs a bicycle.

 

Seems like the sudden dissapearance thing is quite common for these small gobies.

 

As far as another tank goes, since we are on a reef keeping forum I have to say "Yeah, just do it!"

Thanks for the compliments.  I'd like to see more people try the more simple, natural approach to reef keeping.

[Nano sapiens]

22 minutes ago, Weetabix7 said:

This tank is really looking beautiful.

 

I had been considering getting Pederson's Anemone Shrimp, but maybe I should do Venus after reading your comments. I've never seen the Venus Shrimp listed for sale though. Where do you find them?

 

Liveaquaria/Divers Den are where I found mine.  They are not in stock all that often.  If you get some, I've found they are sensitive to proper acclimation (moreso than the Pedersons).  The 'yellow stripes' look interesting and I suspect they are also less pesky than the Pedersons since they don't associate with anemones, but stay in crevices/caves which they set up as service stations for cleaning.

[Nano sapiens]

52 minutes ago, natalia_la_loca said:

 

 

Liveaquaria apparently has them from time to time (but not currently).  According to that site, they max out at 1.25 inches and like hanging out on stinging corals like euphyllia.  I wonder if one of them would do well with the frogspawn in my reefbowl.  I would love to have a crustacean in there but don't want to risk them irritating or damaging my more sensitive corals.

 

I don't think you'd have an issue with the Frogspawn, but it could annoy any Zoas.  My SPS corals don't seem to have any issues even though they are walked over quite a bit.

[natalia_la_loca]

8 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

I don't think you'd have an issue with the Frogspawn, but it could annoy any Zoas.  My SPS corals don't seem to have any issues even though they are walked over quite a bit.

 

That's what I was worried about. I'll probably stick with snails.

[Weetabix7]

3 hours ago, Nano sapiens said:

 

Liveaquaria/Divers Den are where I found mine.  They are not in stock all that often.  If you get some, I've found they are sensitive to proper acclimation (moreso than the Pedersons).  The 'yellow stripes' look interesting and I suspect they are also less pesky than the Pedersons since they don't associate with anemones, but stay in crevices/caves which they set up as service stations for cleaning.

 

Thanks for the Shrimp info!!

I may stick with the Pederson's, cause I want to have something that will host with RFA's and Maxi Mini anemones. 

I'll keep an eye out for the Venus and hopefully try them at some point. 

[Rain24]

I love that this tank is still around! It was one of my tank inspirations back when I had a BC14. I'm going to find the time to read the whole thread again and just learn from your notes. Your latest tank shots are gorgeous! I miss the acans though.