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Josh's 20L mostly SPS mixed reef


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Yeah, in general, stoneys get more inflated at night. Acro polyps reach out further, and brains turn themselves inside out. I love looking at the tank at night, though, as you can see, I have a hell of a time getting good shots with so little light.

 

This makes a lot of sense because at night these corals would have to rely on getting food the old fashioned way and since there is no light, it wouldn't matter if extending the tentacles farther obstructs main body tissues that contain the majority of zooxanthellae.

 

I took a pic today that just happens to have in it three things I wanted to share.

EDITED_IMG_0757.jpg

 

I finally found a spot where I felt the new purplish acro should be permanently, so I epoxied it to the rock. I have found that the only way to really make sure epoxy does the job right and holds the coral in place firmly is to use a little more than you think you will need. The coral will grow over it in time anyway, but I must admit I do find the patches of grey epoxy scattered around my tank to be a bit distracting. Coraline and coral growth will hide it all eventually, I hope.

 

Same is happening in my tank as well: lots of epoxy patches because I had to glue together many Tongan branches. I think that it was a wise move to put that epoxy between the rocks. It will make the whole structure much more sturdy because it will act not just as an adhesive, but also as a weight transfer and an obstacle to the falling tendency of the top rock (if such exists). I would also recommend securing said rock from at least two opposing points of contact to reduce the likely-hood of wobble.

 

Great Thread. I'm keeping it as a reference for the future (when I get to keep sps).

 

-Boris

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Wow! it's great to see the superman doing so well!

 

I have two pieces of it that will probably brown out waiting for the new tank to get setup so seeing that makes me worry less about them.

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One way I found to help hide the epoxy is to use a small piece of rock rubble or coral skeleton to roll over the epoxy which creates a natural pattern on the surface of the epoxy. This I find helps it to blend in with the rest of the LR's uneven and etched surface.

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One way I found to help hide the epoxy is to use a small piece of rock rubble or coral skeleton to roll over the epoxy which creates a natural pattern on the surface of the epoxy. This I find helps it to blend in with the rest of the LR's uneven and etched surface.

 

Cool advice thanks! I'll be sure to do that in the future.

So far, the only etching I got on the epoxy is my fingerprint. B)

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I couldn't have said it better myself. The tank appears huge in your pics. Looks much larger than a 20g. :)

 

More sweet pics, Josh! You really have the Midas touch with corals! :)

 

--Diane

 

Wow, guys, thats some high praise! Thank you so much! I think the tank has a long way to go before it gets the look I am going for, but so far, I am happy with the results. Ultimately, I want to have one of those reef displays where you have to search to find a piece of rock uncovered by coral. You know, the ones where the rock fairly writhes with life at feeding time. I still have room for 10-20 nice frags, as I see it. Then the coral wars will start, and I'll spend all my time pruning, lol. I love it when a tank gets to that point, where you spend all your reefing time refereeing between acros bent on mutual destructio.

 

This makes a lot of sense because at night these corals would have to rely on getting food the old fashioned way and since there is no light, it wouldn't matter if extending the tentacles farther obstructs main body tissues that contain the majority of zooxanthellae.

Same is happening in my tank as well: lots of epoxy patches because I had to glue together many Tongan branches. I think that it was a wise move to put that epoxy between the rocks. It will make the whole structure much more sturdy because it will act not just as an adhesive, but also as a weight transfer and an obstacle to the falling tendency of the top rock (if such exists). I would also recommend securing said rock from at least two opposing points of contact to reduce the likely-hood of wobble.

 

Great Thread. I'm keeping it as a reference for the future (when I get to keep sps).

 

-Boris

 

I never looked at nighttime coral expansion in that way, but it makes perfect sense. I always thought they put feeders out at night because thats when the plankton is most active, but the think about shading iuts own tissues makes alot of sense too. I like how you think.

 

As for that rock, it never wobbled, but I was afraid of a collapse because there was so little overlap at the contact point. The epoxy is more for my piece of mind than anything. If that rock fell and crushed my heliofungia, I would be very sad. I love that coral, and spend alot of time tweaking the return nozzles so it gets just the right amount of flow, carefully hand-feeding it, etc.

 

The rock sits on two other contact ponts that are rock-solid, that was the only part I was worried about.

 

Wow! it's great to see the superman doing so well!

 

I have two pieces of it that will probably brown out waiting for the new tank to get setup so seeing that makes me worry less about them.

 

Well, at least in this case, montis seem to regain color well. The thing is, it is only "half" a superman, so far, in my book. The skeleton is blue, but the polyps are still brown. I think the polyps have to turn red for it to be considered a "true" superman monti. Here's hoping that happens.

 

One way I found to help hide the epoxy is to use a small piece of rock rubble or coral skeleton to roll over the epoxy which creates a natural pattern on the surface of the epoxy. This I find helps it to blend in with the rest of the LR's uneven and etched surface.

 

Good idea! I'll try that next time. SO far my strategy has been to make a smooth transition between coral and rock, so the coral can encrust to cover the opoxy as fast as possible, but sometimes, due to shading or whatever, that never happens. I'm going to try that next time.

 

Cool advice thanks! I'll be sure to do that in the future.

So far, the only etching I got on the epoxy is my fingerprint. B)

 

LOL! you could probably identify me from the fingerprints on my epoxy, if you had access to the right databases and alot of free time.

 

Thank you everybody for your kind comments. All of you are, quite frankly, the only people I know who really appreciate this tank. My firneds and family think its neat, but its amazing how fast their eyes glaze over if I start to talk about the nerdier aspects. My GF calls me her "coral nerd". You guys are my "coral nerd buddies" as she refers to it.

 

I love NR.com. We egg each other on and the result is beautiful reef tanks. What a fun resource this is.

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I built a frag rack last night out of eggcrate and plastic zip-ties. It hangs over the back edge of the aquarium, in front of the refugium. It holds 10 frag plugs, whish are in the rack now. This weekend i'm going to get some more superglue, and the fragfest can begin. There isn't a whole lot of extra room in my tank, and I wish I could hold more plugs than that, but 10 should be enough for now.

 

I'm thinking I will frag the following for the first batch of 10:

 

1 - Pink Pocillopora

2 - Green Slimer

3 - Superman Montipora

4 - Pink Montipora Digitata

5 - The new purple Acropora (2 frags)

6 - The baby blue Acropora

7 - The lemon mini staghorn Acropora (last posted picture before this post)

8 - The pinkish/orangish Montipora Cap (2 frags)

 

That would be a decent batch of 10 to help either raise funds for equipment upgrades or to trade for more species diversity.

 

Here are some pics of my ghetto DIY HOB frag-rack:

 

IMG_0833.jpg

 

IMG_0834.jpg

 

More to come,

 

- Josh

Edited by SPS20
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Thank you everybody for your kind comments. All of you are, quite frankly, the only people I know who really appreciate this tank. My firneds and family think its neat, but its amazing how fast their eyes glaze over if I start to talk about the nerdier aspects. My GF calls me her "coral nerd". You guys are my "coral nerd buddies" as she refers to it.I love NR.com. We egg each other on and the result is beautiful reef tanks. What a fun resource this is.
Fish GeekFish Nerd"Your my little fish"Coral Obsessed PersonFish Tank MasterAquarium freakThe list goes on - most of these names were given to me by my girlfriend lol...She (over the course of 3 years) has actually become quite fond of my aquariums and keeps telling me how I better set up a huge reef tank in our house when we settle down and move in together. lol... So I can't really complain! P.s. "Your my little fish" is the latest one she has been using. She says I know too much and am too good with my fish and corals to be human :huh:
I built a frag rack last night out of eggcrate and plastic zip-ties. It hangs over the back edge of the aquarium, in front of the refugium. It holds 10 frag plugs, whish are in the rack now. This weekend i'm going to get some more superglue, and the fragfest can begin. There isn't a whole lot of extra room in my tank, and I wish I could hold more plugs than that, but 10 should be enough for now.I'm thinking I will frag the following for the first batch of 10:1 - Pink Pocillopora2 - Green Slimer3 - Superman Montipora4 - Pink Montipora Digitata5 - The new purple Acropora (2 frags)6 - The baby blue Acropora7 - The lemon mini staghorn Acropora (last posted picture before this post)8 - The pinkish/orangish Montipora Cap (2 frags)That would be a decent batch of 10 to help either raise funds for equipment upgrades or to trade for more species diversity.- Josh
Damn man, I wish you were closer! I would be all over the Pink Pocillopora, Baby Blue Acro, and Green Slimer, possibly even the orange cap! lol
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Damn man, I wish you were closer! I would be all over the Pink Pocillopora, Baby Blue Acro, and Green Slimer, possibly even the orange cap! lol

 

Well, where in Canada do you live? Are you super far from PA? I'm sure shipping could be arranged, though I would likely have to pack the frags in alot of water (i.e., expensive shipping) to ensure survival. I have ZERO experience with shipping frags. I have had livestock shipped to me, but never the reverse. So far, I have been lucky enough to have a LFS which will buy frags as fast as I can make them, but I really would like to start trading for things my LFS can't get.

 

Regardless, I won't attempt to ship anything until it is fully healed onto the plug and grown out a bit, so it would be a month or so before frags would be available. I'll let you guys know in this thread first when i'm ready to start taking "dibs" on things.

 

TJ, unless you live in the remotest reaches of northern Canada, i'm sure we could arrange something.

 

My tank has yet to reach that point when I am fragging every couple of weeks and still barely keeping up with growth, but I think its almost ready for round 1. In my experience, mature SPS tanks eventually reach some kind of "critical mass", coral growth explodes, and pruning becomes something you do not because you want to make frags, but because, if you don't, the corals start slaughtering each other and your tank becomes one giant block of coral skeleton. I can't wait. Let the battle for territory begin. :)

 

I just hope I can keep up with calcium demand when that happens. I'm up to 30ml of each part of Bionic per day and rising. My alk drops 1.5-2 dKH from lights on to lights off, every day. Thats alot of carbonate to use in 12 hours. It might be time for a dosing system or calcium reactor soon, but I am broke due to Christmas. Maybe in a few months I can.

 

- Josh

Edited by SPS20
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Well, where in Canada do you live? Are you super far from PA? I'm sure shipping could be arranged, though I would likely have to pack the frags in alot of water (i.e., expensive shipping) to ensure survival. I have ZERO experience with shipping frags. I have had livestock shipped to me, but never the reverse. So far, I have been lucky enough to have a LFS which will buy frags as fast as I can make them, but I really would like to start trading for things my LFS can't get.

 

Regardless, I won't attempt to ship anything until it is fully healed onto the plug and grown out a bit, so it would be a month or so before frags would be available. I'll let you guys know in this thread first when i'm ready to start taking "dibs" on things.

 

TJ, unless you live in the remotest reaches of northern Canada, i'm sure we could arrange something.

 

- Josh

 

I am not too far from Niagara Falls, they are approx 1hr drive from my house. So honestly I am not too far from that end of the border. Shipping would probably still suck - but in a months time I should have my new tank ready and waiting for some of Josh's Home Grown Coral Frags ;)

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I am not too far from Niagara Falls, they are approx 1hr drive from my house. So honestly I am not too far from that end of the border. Shipping would probably still suck - but in a months time I should have my new tank ready and waiting for some of Josh's Home Grown Coral Frags ;)

 

Ok, thats not too far. So, I was looking at my tank, and, if I am willing to forego aethetics completely, I could probably fit frag racks all around the top edges of the tank, if I need to. It would be ugly as hell, but I could farm some serious frags in there if I could stand to look at it. I figure there is space for at least 50 frag plugs. Maybe i'll go all-out this spring in an attempt to raise enough to build a frag tank. I made a pact with myself that my tank must be self-sustaining, or damn close to it, from now on. Frag racks out the wazoo may be the answer.

 

When I own, rather than rent, a home, I will be setting up a massive propagating system, as I love coral gardening. Its soothing and theraputic, and allows me to immerse myself in something I love doing. For now, I must resist the temptation to set up something that can't easily be moved.

 

I'm thinking, months down the line, I should set up a 33 breeder or something like that (wide and shallow), put a ghetto floursescent hood over the tank and frag racks 4" from the surface from end to end, and start hacking up colonies. You don't need terribly intense light if you can keep the frags really close to the light source, IME, so that would be a good way to do it on the cheap. You can build a 6 or 8 bulb T5 fixture pretty inexpensively now, the only expensive part is getting the bulbs themselves. I prefer metal halide, but for a small and shallow frag tank, flourescent might be the way to go.

Edited by SPS20
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My GF calls me her "coral nerd". You guys are my "coral nerd buddies" as she refers to it.

I love NR.com. We egg each other on and the result is beautiful reef tanks. What a fun resource this is.

 

Your GF and mine should get together-they think alike.

As far as Nerdiness goes, I claim the prize :P . When I just immigrated to the US 17 years ago, I got called a Nerd in High School. Well, I disagreed with that person's definition of "nerd" and looked it up in the dictionary. :D

 

I do agree on the NR.com bit though...

Edited by klarion
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Your GF and mine should get together-they think alike.

As far as Nerdiness goes, I claim the prize :P . When I just immigrated to the US 17 years ago, I got called a Nerd in High School. Well, I disagreed with that person's definition of "nerd" and looked it up in the dictionary. :D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

That's priceless!

 

--Diane

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Man, do I ever have some neat-o Paly/Zoo frags for you when your ready to trade!

 

I stopped by my buddy's storefront today, and picked up some nice Paly's/Zoas and an Acro. I had a chance to remove a nice size polyp from my Palys that was just barely hanging on. I will snap some pics tomorrow and see if you like any of them lol.

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Man, do I ever have some neat-o Paly/Zoo frags for you when your ready to trade!

 

I stopped by my buddy's storefront today, and picked up some nice Paly's/Zoas and an Acro. I had a chance to remove a nice size polyp from my Palys that was just barely hanging on. I will snap some pics tomorrow and see if you like any of them lol.

 

That brings up an interesting point. You see, so far, in this tank, I have had less than perfect luck with zoos. I haven't killed any or anything but they don't seem to display colors very well, and they look unhappy for days rather than hours after I add them.

 

Now, I have spent virtually the entire time I have been in the hobby obsessed with stony corals, and thus know only the basics about zoos. Are there zoos that can take a straight shot of very intense MH light? I seem to have to put them waaaay out of the way, shaded by other corals in order to get them to open up. Are any of the more brightly colored zoos more light-tolerant than the ones I have found so far?

 

I have never attempted keeping a small and shallow SPS system before, and in order to have enough light for vigorous SPS growth and coloration, it seem I have trouble finding places to put lower-light species. I have only begun to introduce such corals recently, as the growing corals already in there create shady spots. These shady spots are too few atm, but I know I will have more and more as the acros branch out and grow. I know, this is the fool's errand of the mixed reef aquarium. Its strange enough that I am keeping a LT plate and acros together in such a tiny tank. The plate absolutely cannot tolerate strong currents and the acros absolutely need it. Arranging the rockwork to divert flow perfectly around the plate was a monstrous pain in the ass, it took weeks of rearranging the rockwork on the left end of the tank, over and over, until it worked.

 

It is amazing how many times you can rearrange the rocks in a tank before it clicks and the aquascaping feels right. Never before have I set up a tank where the rocks HAD to have a certain shape, or a coral will likely die. Aquascaping is usually more of an aesthetic decision. Anybody who happened to see me working on that probably got the impression that I curse much more than I really do.

 

In my larger systems in the past, it was easy, since I could just put low-light species on the bottom, problem solved. The bottom in this tank is only a few inches lower than the top! It was such a long process to acclimate my heliofungia, for instance (normally considered a moderate to low-light species) to the straight shot of light. It was PI$$ED for awhile, but careful application of eggcrate and fiberglass screen helped it adapt. I'm not sure if I really want to do that for the zoos I ultimately intend to place here and there throughout the tank. If I am not mistaken, it would seem that stoney corals are just better at adapting to intense light, while softies will sometimes just shrink up into a ball until the conditions change.

 

I have never had any truly exotic zoos, but if they can't tolerate more light than less colorful varieties, I'm not sure where I would put them. Am I doing something wrong with my zoos? Judging by the pics of your old 20g reef, you have some experience with zoos that I don't share.

Edited by SPS20
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I have some colorful green and orange zoas doing great under a 400w bulb w/o shading in a 20"H tank. I've found it takes them a few weeks to get comfortable under that much light. They start to look kinda shriveled when they're under light stress IME, but all the ones I've had do bounce back after that few weeks. I think my zoas are pretty garden variety, but I think they look great and very colorful.

 

LPS have been really tough to acclimate though. I have only one variety of micro that seems to want to acclimate to a very bright spot in the tank. The other micro sits in partial shade. It kinda stinks having to ignore some beautiful corals because I know they would probably never acclimate to that much light. I don't like hiding corals in shade.

 

SPS love it though.

 

Here's a pic of how I have them.

Edited by jsw
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I have some colorful green and orange zoas doing great under a 400w bulb w/o shading in a 20"H tank. I've found it takes them a few weeks to get comfortable under that much light. They start to look kinda shriveled when they're under light stress IME, but all the ones I've had do bounce back after that few weeks. I think my zoas are pretty garden variety, but I think they look great and very colorful.

 

LPS have been really tough to acclimate though. I have only one variety of micro that seems to want to acclimate to a very bright spot in the tank. The other micro sits in partial shade. It kinda stinks having to ignore some beautiful corals because I know they would probably never acclimate to that much light. I don't like hiding corals in shade.

 

SPS love it though.

 

Here's a pic of how I have them.

 

Thank you, that puts me at ease a bit. If they can take 400w, they can take 300w split between 2 bulbs. I suppose I just have to be more patient with zoos than with SPS. It doesn't seem to take most SPS corals long at all before they extend their polyps and look happy, maybe a few hours. I guess zoos just need to be left alone long enough to do their thing and get comfortable enough to open up.

 

As for corals that just can't adapt to intense light; I figure as my SPS colonies get larger, there will be more and more shade to work with at the bottom of the tank, so I will have more space to put shade-loving species. All in good time, I suppose.

 

I took some more snapshots today. These are all as close to macro shots as I can get with my camera.

 

My blue anthelia, sitting all the way in the back, Has sprouted some interesting macroalgae. It doesn't seem to be bothering the coral at all, so I let it grow. It does look kind of cool. My green slimer is getting a little more "neon" lately on the upper side of the branches, I think as a result of me lowering the lights 1.5" last week to about 7" off the water. I know thats awfully close, but its winter here, so temperature control is not even remotely an issue, and the tank gets a couple of hours of direct sunlight in the summer, so I may as well acclimate the acros now to lots of light.

EDITED_IMG_0857.jpg

 

I coaxed some of my xenia to grow onto the right end wall of the tank, then cut the connecting tissue with a razor yesterday. Now it can spread on the wall without bothering my other corals, in a place I can easily control it. I am going to get rid of the remaining colonies, one of which is in the foreground. The stuff just grows way too fast; it is a constant battle to keep it in check. Yet it is beautiful, so the glass is my compromise solution. Interestingly, you may notice that the one in the foreground is bluer in color. It was much more elongated the day before, but the polyps have since shortened in response to an increase in light. That colony was in near total shade until the day before. It was only getting indirect light. Its interesting to see the different forms and colors a single species can take on under different conditions.

EDITED_IMG_0856.jpg

 

A closeup of my orangish/pinkish/reddish (what color is this??) scrolling monti.

EDITED_IMG_0852.jpg

 

My yellow monti. It is taking on a really interesting growth form. Its like it doesn't know if it wants to plate, encrust, or branch, so its trying to do all three. Its a weird coral.

EDITED_IMG_0850.jpg

 

A shot of my pink Montipora digitata. This thing nearly died on me when I added the second halide light to the system, awhile before I started this thread. I didn't acclimate it carefully enough to the increase in light, so it turned bone white in a single day. The tips died as well. I crammed it way into a corner when I noticed it was bleaching, and thought it was too late, but it SLOWLY regained its color over the following months, and the coral grew back over the dead tips. Just recently it has begun growing again, albeit slowly. I think i'll leave this guy in the corner, he doesn't seem to need much light, and the other corals could use the really bright spots anyway.

EDITED_IMG_0845.jpg

 

My little Acanthastrea frag. You can see several new polyps budding along the lower edge.

EDITED_IMG_0838.jpg

 

More to come,

- Josh

Edited by SPS20
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real real nice freaking tank.

 

i really like the little bits, orange star, cluster of tubeworms on the rock, etc... very natural looking.

 

Thank you for the kind words, and welcome to NR.com!

 

I discovered that photobucket lets you link thumbnails, so I edited my original post to include thumbnails in the livestock list, and to reflect recent additions.

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The weather is nasty outside, I am snowed and iced in. So, I took more pics of my reef, with the pumps turned off so you can see.

 

EDITED_IMG_0870.jpg

 

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EDITED_IMG_0859.jpg

Edited by SPS20
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EDITED_IMG_0859.jpg

 

This clam is a hypnotic turquoise, the brightest thing in your tank. Fabulous job. Everything looks so healthy and vibrant. I can see that you're going to need a new one very soon.

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Absolutely gorgeous!

 

 

This clam is a hypnotic turquoise, the brightest thing in your tank. Fabulous job. Everything looks so healthy and vibrant. I can see that you're going to need a new one very soon.

 

Thanks Guys!

 

I consider it an honor for you two to like my tank, as yours are truly among my top 5 all time favorite nanos. Now, we just need to get TJ a good camera, cause those low rez shots only show enough to know you are really missing something special, lol. If you only lived closer, i'd lend you mine, but alas, 99% of the people here seem to live a bajillion miles away from me. I am somewhat jealous at how many of you in california can just drive to each other's houses and trade frags. Reefing seems more popular on the west coast, or I just have had bad luck meeting locals who keep reefs.

 

So, if you have been following this thread, then you will know I decided some time ago to feed my tank very heavily, and do weekly 50% water changes, which I have been doing for the past several weeks. Since that is only 10 gallons a week, it really isn't that big a chore to do on this tank. If the tank were any larger, this little experiment would be too much of a PITA to bother.

 

I have noticed a few changes:

- The corals are even happier, and are growing faster, slightly better coloration on a few corals

- The fish are happier, but thats to be expected (they eat what the corals miss, so they are all very fat right now)

- There has been a slight increase in hair algae growth, but the addition of a few extra snail and a few hermit crabs has helped alot with that

- My Nitrates spiked up to 5 ppm for about 2 weeks, then dropped again to undetectable. I suppose it took a couple of weeks for the denitrifiers to catch up to the increased bioload

- My skimmer has been producing some seriously nasty stuff, much darker than before I increased my feedings

- The macroalgae in my fuge has gone NUTS. I have to harvest every single week or the stuff starts growing out of the water

- I have noticed a marked increase in copepod, amphipod, isopod, mysid, and flatworm populations

 

Now, as for this last point: I see the pods as a good thing, but now I have a lot of rusty-colored flatworms, and they have even begun crawling on my coral from time to time. The corals have shown no negative reaction, but I am alarmed by the sudden increase in their population, so today, I reluctantly added a 6-line wrasse to help control them.

 

I say "reluctantly" for several reasons:

- I already have several fish in this very small tank. This is a reef display, not a fish tank, but the corals are growing well, so I suppose this isn't a problem yet.

- The fish I already have are all fairly shy (well, except the algae blenny, he won't be easily bullied but at the same time, he never bothers the other fish); I understand 6-lines can get very pushy. I hope this one is calm. I would hate to lose any of my fish. They are all very well settled-in and are very healthy so far. Bullying could be a problem in my little 20 gallon tank.

- I consider the obscene numbers of amphipods, copepods, isopods, mysiids, stomatellas, and so on in this tank to be a serious boost to my CUC. Collectively, they eat alot of algae, and contribute much to the feeding of the corals, and I am fairly certain the 6-line will devastate their populations in short order. I will no doubt have to add more snails and such to compensate.

- I like watching the swarms of mysiids between the rocks late at night. I will miss that alot :(. There is always the refugium, but its hard to see in there. The little bugs are a huge part of the nano-reef experience, I believe. My hope is that he is not as efficient a predator as I suspect he will be, and some of the bugs will live on in the display. I know the refugium will prevent any system-wide extinctions, so that puts me at ease somewhat.

 

So, i'll post some pics of the new fish when he stops hiding. Happy reefing, everyone!

 

- Josh

Edited by SPS20
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Update: I sat down in front of the tank to see how the new 6-line wrasse is doing. He is absolutely gorging himself. I have never seen a fish go so crazy. Its like a shark in a feeding frenzy. I haven't seen him eat a flatworm yet, but I watched him eat several large amphipods and a mysid. He had to choke one of them down by mushing his face against a rock. He is an amazing hunter!

 

So, he is either just really hungry atm, or he's going to eat himself to death, lol. The pods are so numerous and easy to catch (they hang out in plain sight during the day, the population is enormous) that I think his life will be super easy for at least a week, by then the population will probably have been significantly depleted.

 

I imagine he won't really turn on the flatworms until the really tasty stuff is harder to find.

 

- Josh

Edited by SPS20
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