Josh's 20L mostly SPS mixed reef

[SPS20]

Now i'm thinking he's a Trimma.

 

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gobies.htm

 

Check out the trimmas. Mine looks alot like that, and there is a species in that genus which swims upside down. (however the coloration is different from my fish). Regardless, the body shape and size are right.

[seagul]

How do you like the cpr backpack?

im looking into buying one.

 

really want this so i can run a closed loop and still have a refugium.

[SPS20]

How do you like the cpr backpack?

im looking into buying one.

 

really want this so i can run a closed loop and still have a refugium.

 

You mean the aquafuge? It has some minor issues, but overall, i'd say its a good product. You can't turn the pump all the way up if you don't want lots of bubbles, so I keep mine turned down to slow. I use a Jalli 19W compact flourescent light on mine with a few inches of fine sand on the bottom. Chaeto and gracilaria grow very well in there, and there are a ton of pods, snails, worms, etc that proliferate in my refugium, so i'd say the design works. Don't expect it to feed a family of mandarins, but it will grow a rather substantial bale of chaeto, and some bugs do spill over into the reef at night. It holds more life than you would think just to look at it.

 

- Josh

Edited December 10, 2007 by SPS20

[c est ma]

Josh, everything is looking great and I love your latest pics, esp. the top-down shots.

 

And how cool that you scored such a sweet goby! The description and some of the pics of Trimma at that page you posted sound just like what you've described/pictured.

 

What brand of epoxy do you use that's bluish? I like that better than the white stuff I have.

 

--Diane

[VannReefer87]

have you decided on your bulb yet? I'm in the same boat...I set up a 120g with two 150w MH's over it and I always used Phoenix bulbs because I thought they put out the most PAR and I used them over my 37g with good results....so I think I may go with them again, unless someone can find me a 10-15k bulb that puts out higher PAR

[SPS20]

Josh, everything is looking great and I love your latest pics, esp. the top-down shots.

 

And how cool that you scored such a sweet goby! The description and some of the pics of Trimma at that page you posted sound just like what you've described/pictured.

 

What brand of epoxy do you use that's bluish? I like that better than the white stuff I have.

 

--Diane

 

Thanks Diane!

 

This morning when I woke up and sat down next to the tank for my morning ritual of waking up with coffee next to the reef tank, I was delighted that my little Trimma wasn't hiding, as I expected he would be on his second day in my tank. Instead, he was perched upside down on the underside of one of the return nozzles to my tank. I'm really quite tanken with this little fish, he's really different, and, like all gobies, endearingly cute.

 

The epoxy isn't actually blue, its grey. The light makes it look bluer than it is. Of all the different epoxy colors, I think this one blends in the best. I forget the brand name, i'll check when I get home tonight. I still have the empty tube sitting on my desk. Does the aquascaping look a little more natural now (ignoring the epoxy of course)? Before, alot of the corals were still attached to their bases from the aquaculture facility, and I felt like it would never look really really natural until the corals were encrusted onto the base rock. So, as of last night, all the corals are now glued directly to the rocks. As a bonus, I no longer have to worry about snails knocking things over on a daily basis.

 

have you decided on your bulb yet? I'm in the same boat...I set up a 120g with two 150w MH's over it and I always used Phoenix bulbs because I thought they put out the most PAR and I used them over my 37g with good results....so I think I may go with them again, unless someone can find me a 10-15k bulb that puts out higher PAR

 

I don't know what bulb is the highest par in 150W HQI, but I would bet Sanjay Joshi does. Check here for answers: http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/ I'm pretty sure the phoenix isn't the highest PAR you can get for 150W. I think the highest PAR bulbs in every wattage are the 6500K ones. They are just too yellow for most people's tastes, but they grow corals amazingly well if you can stomach the color. Check out the tank shown in this article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review1/view . That is some pretty serious coral growth for a single 150W bulb. 6500k is the best there is for growth, aesthetics aside.

 

Now, I realize that you asked for a recommendation in the 10k-15k range. Corals just tend to look neater under bluer light, due to floursescence and other factors. When people talk about coral coloration and lighting, there are two related but distinct concepts which I think often get confused. On the one hand, you have pigmentation, the actual organic dyes that exist in the tissues of corals. These pigments can and do change over time in response to the spectrum an intensity of lighting, but they don't change instantly. On the other hand, you have the light reflected off a coral which can be viewed or photographed. This reflected light can and will change instantly if we change the spectrum of light with which we illuminate the coral in question.

 

So, when people ask which bulb is best for getting the best colors out of their corals, it brings to mind a question: Do you mean in terms of pigmentation, or do you mean in terms of apparent color to the viewer? Many of the pigments we seek to encourage are produced by corals as a protective mechanisms. If the coral is illuminated more brightly than it needs to be to grow and survive, some corals will produce pigments to reflect excess light. Other corals produce pigments to help capture certain wavelengths of light more efficiently. In any case, there is certainly a link between pigmentation and the intensity and quality of light.

 

As for the color as it appears to the viewer, well, lets just say alot of my corals would look alot brighter in color if I were to replace my 10k bulbs with 20k bulbs, and their appearance would change immediately. The flipside of this is, over time the pigmentation would change too, and the long term result might not be more colorful corals.

 

My impression is that pigmentation is more tied to PAR than spectra. Why would a coral produce pigments to reflect excess light if it is only getting just enough light to live in the first place? This is why underilluminated corals often turn brown. As it turns out, brown is a really really good color for absorbing all spectra of light. Hence, brown corals get the most out of what light is available. Bright yellow, red, or blue corals (esp. SPS) tend more to be from shallower, more brightly-lit waters. The growing tips of certain SPS tend to have more color than the rest of the coral due to the fact that the tips are illuminated with rays travelling perpendicular to the surface of the polyp, where the axial polyps are being illuminated with rays running more tangentially to the polyp. In other words, the tips get more direct light, so they have to produce pigments to protect themselves. Well, if you increase light enough, the whole coral turns the color that the tips used to be. (take a look at the before and after pics of my blue acro earlier in this thread for a perfect example)

 

When people farm frags for display aquaria, it is a common practice to use high-wattage high kelvin bulbs, such as 400W radium 20k bulbs. Higher kelvin bulbs tend to be lower PAR-per-watt, but the high wattage makes up the difference. So, the pictures you see of "limited edition" corals with outrageous colors are often the result of maximizing pigmentation by maximizing PAR, while simultaneously displaying the corals under a light which is very blue and encourages flourescence. So, the corals have both good pigment, and a pretty light under which to be photographed.

 

If you, like myself, can't afford to hang lots of 400W 20k bulbs over your tank, you must compromise. If you have 150W fixtures, you can either use high-PAR bulbs, OR you can use bulbs that have a color which is pleasant to the eye. If you are trying to get fast growth and nice pigmentation out of shallow-water SPS corals, then the choice is clear: go with lower kelvin bulbs. 10K is a good compromise for most people.

 

So, the short answer is, I haven't decided what my bulb replacements will be. I still have a couple of months before the ones I am using begin to drop off, so i'm just trying to get some impressions from people in the meantime. Basically, I am looking for the highest-PAR bulb I can get which also produces a pleasant light. In other words, I want my blue acro to stay blue, if possible, under a light which is a wee bit less yellow than my Coralife 10k bulbs.

 

- Josh

 

NOTE: The above ramblings about coloration and lighting are not well researched in the standard sense. This is just my impression from experience, mixed with what I have read. If you ask me to provide a source for any of the above assertions, I will do my best to figure out where I heard this info and link it, but I can't promise anything. Coral coloration and its causes is a subject of heated debate in this hobby. The above represents my position in that debate, and what I have learned from practical experience.

Edited December 10, 2007 by SPS20

[seagul]

Im currently using an iwasaki 50k 150 watt bulb. It is seriously purple when completely fired up.

all my corals look amazing under it, they honestly glow. Even my ugly brown zoa's are beautiful.

 

of course i wouldnt say this is better than say a 14k pheonix, or 20k or anything.. but its really based upon what your looking to get out of your bulb.

[SPS20]

Im currently using an iwasaki 50k 150 watt bulb. It is seriously purple when completely fired up.

all my corals look amazing under it, they honestly glow. Even my ugly brown zoa's are beautiful.

 

of course i wouldnt say this is better than say a 14k pheonix, or 20k or anything.. but its really based upon what your looking to get out of your bulb.

 

Any chance I could get you to post a tank shot lit only by that bulb? I'd like to see what it looks like.

[TJ_Burton]

Any chance I could get you to post a tank shot lit only by that bulb? I'd like to see what it looks like.

 

+1

 

I would like to see your tank as well!

[VannReefer87]

I'm in the same situation as you....I have Coralife 10k's now as well, but I want something with a little bit less yellow. I'm considering the XM 10k but I'm going to consult Sanjay, my friend in my local reef club is friends with him and he did recommend the XM before so I'll let you know what I find out.

[SPS20]

Ok I did some googling, and the Iwasaki 50k bulb generally gets rave reviews. If it is anywhere near the quality of their other bulbs, i'm sure it would do the job. I know Iwasaki generally makes a top-notch product (the best MH lamp manufaturer, IMO) so i suppose I couldn't go wrong there. However, I will say that their 6500k bulb puts out a color of light which isn't exactly pretty to me. It grows corals like crazy, but its ugly light, IMO. The 50k seems more aesthetically pleasing to me, at least from the 2 pictures i've seen of tanks lit by that bulb.

 

So, at the moment, I am leaning toward Iwasaki 50k.

 

a couple of links:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?...asc&start=0

http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/ltg_bulb_color.htm

 

Keep the input coming. The last thing any of us want is to pay hundreds for new bulbs only to discover that our corals are unhappy or the tank looks ridiculous.

Edited December 10, 2007 by SPS20

[VannReefer87]

Very interesting...I'm going to have to check that out too now!

[seagul]

I will. BUT i gotta wait for what i hope is the last coat of paint to dry on my tank. I upgraded from a 20H to a 20L so i dont have any coral in there as of now. I wish i did so i could show you how vibrantly it brings out the true color of the coral.

 

I hope to have this coat dry within the next half hour.. then im gunna wash it out, and start fillin her back up. And set the LR back in. Ill post a pic as soon as i get done.

 

 

EDIT: picture time... alright.. the iwasaki 150w bulb is 5+ feet from the top rim of the tank, wich is why its a little dark but it shows the color of the bulb really well. Check back on my thread this weekend i should have the hood done, and a better pic of the bulb at the correct height from the tank.

 

anyway enough talk... picture.. mmm mmm purple.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2007 by seagul

[SPS20]

I have 2 new corals as of this evening. One is supposedly a browned out superman monti, and the other an acro of some sort. Both are brownish, but the guy at the LFS gave them to me for free. He did say he wants cuttings if their colors come back. The lights are out in my tank atm, so i'll post shots of both new corals tomorrow. They don't look special now, but I see strong potential.

 

Seagul:

WOW that is purple. Looks really dim though, and not at all the same as the pics I have seen. Odd. Is that what it looks like in real life, or did your camera do some exposure tricks on you? Ok, gotta run, more later.

 

- Josh

[dtfleming]

I think its due to the fact that he has it 5+ feet above the tank.

[SPS20]

I think its due to the fact that he has it 5+ feet above the tank.

 

Ahh thanks. I have to work on my reading comprehension.

[c est ma]

Thanks Diane!

 

This morning when I woke up and sat down next to the tank for my morning ritual of waking up with coffee next to the reef tank, I was delighted that my little Trimma wasn't hiding, as I expected he would be on his second day in my tank. Instead, he was perched upside down on the underside of one of the return nozzles to my tank. I'm really quite tanken with this little fish, he's really different, and, like all gobies, endearingly cute.

 

The epoxy isn't actually blue, its grey. The light makes it look bluer than it is. Of all the different epoxy colors, I think this one blends in the best. I forget the brand name, i'll check when I get home tonight. I still have the empty tube sitting on my desk. Does the aquascaping look a little more natural now (ignoring the epoxy of course)? Before, alot of the corals were still attached to their bases from the aquaculture facility, and I felt like it would never look really really natural until the corals were encrusted onto the base rock. So, as of last night, all the corals are now glued directly to the rocks. As a bonus, I no longer have to worry about snails knocking things over on a daily basis.

 

Sure would be sweet if you could find your little goby a partner...

 

Yes, I think it looks more natural without the plugs. That must have been quite a project, though. I have trouble judging just when my epoxy is at peak condition--fairly often I misjudge and things don't stick well for me...

 

I also enjoyed your educational ruminations on light quality and pigmentation.

 

--Diane

[SPS20]

Sure would be sweet if you could find your little goby a partner...

 

I don't even know the species name yet! I'm pretty sure of the genus, however. I mean, how many genera of small gobies that look just like that have species which swim upside down? Not more than one, I imagine.

 

So, if i could figure out the exact species, I wouldn't be opposed to finding the little fishy a mate...

 

Yes, I think it looks more natural without the plugs. That must have been quite a project, though. I have trouble judging just when my epoxy is at peak condition--fairly often I misjudge and things don't stick well for me...

 

It took months to work up to it, and a few hours to do. It was fairly nerve-wracking because these corals, which were purchased as little more than frags, are beginning to resemble colonies. I was afraid the colonies would no longer snap free of their bases neatly. As it turned out, none of them snapped right off but a pair of pruning shears cut through the skeleton quite cleanly. It probably would have been alot easier if I had just done it when I got them.

 

As for the epoxy, I usually mix the putty, and wait 5 minutes or so. Then I make a small ball of putty, and press the ball onto the rock where I want the coral to be. I wait a little longer (minute or two) then push the coral into the putty. If it stays for 20 minutes, it isn't moving. I also make sure to turn off the pump for a few minutes (I have had corals pulled off fresh putty by current) and ward of my algae blenny with something. He likes to perch in the branches of my corals, but he is rather fat. I'm afraid if he perches on a coral that was just attached, it will fall over. So, I do this ridiculous dance with my algae blenny and a net (the only thing he is afraid of and thus will run away from) for a few minutes until I am satisfied the epoxy has set. You see, the blenny eats from my fingers, and has associated me with food for some time now. As a result, I can't do anything in the tank without having him all over me, pecking at my arms, swimming between my fingers, etc. If I am trying to redo the aquascaping, he is always "underfoot" so to speak, and I have to constantly watch that I don't accidentally crush him with a rock. I swear, sometimes it seems like he is a dog trapped in a fish's body. This is what I get for hand feeding and naming a fish. My girlfriend named the fish "Benny the Bashful Blenny" when I got him. For the fist couple of months, he hid constantly. Now the adjective "bashful" is hardly appropraite, so now he is simply Benny. Not the most original blenny name I realize, but I think he's adorable. Algae Blennies aren't the prettiest fish, but they make up for it with sheer personality. He is easily my favorite fish ever, and probably the only one I have truly considered a "pet".

 

- Josh

Edited December 11, 2007 by SPS20

[seagul]

yep its so dim because its 5++ feet from the tank. Had to do it so i could get a good picture of the color the bulb puts out.. when its at normal height in bleaches everything out, so badly i cant get a good shot with my camera without the flash on...(flash takes the purple out in this case)

 

but yeah picture is not altered in anyway that is exactly how it looks when light is 5 feet from top rim in a pitch black room haha. Ill get some better pics sometime in the neearrr future.

[SPS20]

I have some pics of a few new additions.

 

First, this is allegedly a "superman" Montipora which browned out due to poor lighting. The guy at the LFS gave it to me free on the condition that I try to revive its color and, if it works, I give him a frag of the coral in its colored-up state. It looks healthy enough, and it was free, so i'm going to give it a try. Since it is browned out, i'm starting it off low in the tank. Once it adapts to the light, i'll begin moving it into the "hot spot" of the light incrementally. Hopefully by then it will have begun to reagain its former glory. I harbor some suspicions that it isn't really a superman, but it was free, so why would the guy lie? Its not like he was making money off me. In the worst case, i'll give him back his brown coral in a few months and there's no loss. I'm hoping for the best, as that is generally a fairly expensive color morph. I'm all about making brown corals pretty, rather than spending big bucks on corals that have already been conditioned for display. The coloring up process is half the fun anyway.

 

The guy who gave me the Montipora also gave me this Acropora. I'm glad my LFS loves me. I went there fully expecting to spend money and I left with two corals and all the money I came with! It is also brown, but I see the potential for some nice color. The tips have the slightest hint of purple to them, which I hope is just the beginning of what I can get out of this coral. My (perhaps unrealistic) hope is that I can get it to turn solid screaming purple. This was also a freebie, so I can't complain even if it stays brown. Color aside, I like the shape and the fluffyness of the polyps. Plus, it is a mature colony, with its adult morphology, rather than just a frag. I spun it around looking for an Acro crab, but sadly, there are none. All these acros and not one of those cool little crabs. Ahh well, thats the downside of growing your colonies from frags, I suppose.

 

And here is my new Palythoa (i think, maybe its Zoanthus). I got it a few days ago, and it is only now just beginning to open up. I think the light is a little too bright for it, but I think it will adapt. Its dark brown with dark slate-blue centers. I'm hoping the blue will intensify, but even if it doesn't, I think it looks nice.

 

More to come,

 

- Josh

Edited December 12, 2007 by SPS20

[PurpleUP]

Your new superman and acropora may be brown, but they're looking quite healthy. I think they'll do very well for you in no time at all. Now those blue zoas are nice. Let me know if you're up to trade for a frag of *almost* anything in my tank!

[SPS20]

Your new superman and acropora may be brown, but they're looking quite healthy. I think they'll do very well for you in no time at all. Now those blue zoas are nice. Let me know if you're up to trade for a frag of *almost* anything in my tank!

 

I agree. The colors aren't the best, but those brown corals certainly weren't suffering.

 

My plan is to let everything grow for awhile until the acros get within an inch or so of touching (its getting there fast) and then spend one lazy sunday just fragging. I may frag the blue zoos before then, as that colony is fairly large. Assuming it settles in and stays open most of the day for me. So far, I haven't gotten the whole colony to open at the same time, but a few open here and there is not too bad for day 3. They came from a much dimmer light than what I have in my tank, so I imagine it might be a little while before they are really happy. You are officially first on the list for them.

 

Now I have fragged corals many times before, but I have never dealt with shipping corals. (I have recieved corals shipped to me, but never the other way around) I have been lucky enough to find a LFS with which I have a good relationship. They have bought all the frags I have made over the years, with only a few exceptions. So, when its time to frag, if you could tell me exactly how to package and ship them to maximize the chances of arriving alive, it would be greatly appreciated. You are on the opposite side of the country from me, after all, so they would have to be packed just right.

 

Out of curiosity, which corals are the ones you woulnd't frag? And, which other corals of mine would you like me to frag for you? If you give me a list, i'll frag them a bit sooner and let them heal onto their plugs so we have a better shot at getting them there alive. I figure if they aren't dealing with recent injuries on top of shipping stress, they will have a better shot at making the trip intact.

 

- Josh

[BKtomodachi]

As far as I can tell, those are zoanthus.

[PurpleUP]

I agree. The colors aren't the best, but those brown corals certainly weren't suffering.

 

My plan is to let everything grow for awhile until the acros get within an inch or so of touching (its getting there fast) and then spend one lazy sunday just fragging. I may frag the blue zoos before then, as that colony is fairly large. Assuming it settles in and stays open most of the day for me. So far, I haven't gotten the whole colony to open at the same time, but a few open here and there is not too bad for day 3. They came from a much dimmer light than what I have in my tank, so I imagine it might be a little while before they are really happy. You are officially first on the list for them.

 

Now I have fragged corals many times before, but I have never dealt with shipping corals. (I have recieved corals shipped to me, but never the other way around) I have been lucky enough to find a LFS with which I have a good relationship. They have bought all the frags I have made over the years, with only a few exceptions. So, when its time to frag, if you could tell me exactly how to package and ship them to maximize the chances of arriving alive, it would be greatly appreciated. You are on the opposite side of the country from me, after all, so they would have to be packed just right.

 

Out of curiosity, which corals are the ones you woulnd't frag? And, which other corals of mine would you like me to frag for you? If you give me a list, i'll frag them a bit sooner and let them heal onto their plugs so we have a better shot at getting them there alive. I figure if they aren't dealing with recent injuries on top of shipping stress, they will have a better shot at making the trip intact.

 

- Josh

 

I've been thinking about the kelvin rating of my bulb, especially since my setup will not allow for multiple pendants. Do you know if Iwasaka makes a 250w 50k HQI bulb, and if it's also gotten good reviews?

 

I agree about shipping. It's easy to frag anything, but to ship economically and ensure live arrival will be difficult. I'd suggest we frag and ship in bulk to maximize the benefit to both of us. As far as the ones I wouldn't frag, I would say I wouldn't frag A FRAG - like the 2 ORA frags I recently picked up for example, which by the way are doing incredibly well. I just might be a believer that captive raised corals look better and thrive longer in our tanks than those caught in the wild. Anyhow, I suppose I'd frag anything once I get enough growth out of it. I can certainly wait for your stuff if you can mine, especially if I can awe at photos in the meantime. I plan on picking up various monti cap frags over the next several weeks, which I understand can grow rather quickly - if you're into those.

 

IMO zoas should ship just fine in a plastic water bottle, so if exchanged those it would be relatively cheap and painless. But I'm know expert either.

 

ONE MORE THING, do you think running a 250W 20k at least compensates to some degree vs a lower 150W 20k? I gotta admit, I LIKE THE BLUE.

Edited December 12, 2007 by PurpleUP

[TJ_Burton]

Every time I look at your tank I grow more and more fond of the rockwork... and the clams... and the corals... and, well, everything lol.