Josh's 20L mostly SPS mixed reef

[PurpleUP]

Hmm. I'm not sure what you mean, exactly. If you were to turn off the power to my aquarium right now, what would happen is water in the tank would siphon back down to the sump through the return lines until the return lines are above water, then the siphon would break. That would only drop the water level a couple of inches in my tank, since the return nozzles are just below the surface of the water during normal operation. Of course, the water level in my sump would rise a corresponding amount. The overflow box itself never breaks its siphon unless I physically remove the U-tube. When water stops being pumped into the tank, the overflow box just sits there and waits for water to begin circulating again. Its basic operation is no different if the flow rate is a 0 GPH from how it is at 500 GPH. It just keeps the water level in the inside box the same as in the outside box. Since there is no way for water to get into the U-tube, there is no way for the siphon to break. Both the inside and the outside box prevent the U-tube from ever being drained, since both ends of the tube are always kept submerged.

 

I'll post pics tonight of my overflow box. i think perhaps some people here have a slightly innacurate concept of how it works. Or, maybe my overflow box is designed differently. I'm not sure. Regardless, its more trustworthy than alot of people give it credit for.

 

-Josh

 

Actually, I was wondering more about what happens when *power is restored* and the return pumps from your sump push water back into your tank. From what I understand the siphon overflow does not restart itself automatically, or does it? If it doesn't resume the siphon when power comes back on, is there a fail-safe in your system which prevents your display tank from overflowing - due to excess water coming in but having no other place to go but the floor? It's probably something very simple about siphon overflows that I just don't comprehend.

[SPS20]

Actually, I was wondering more about what happens when *power is restored* and the return pumps from your sump push water back into your tank. From what I understand the siphon overflow does not restart itself automatically, or does it? If it doesn't resume the siphon when power comes back on, is there a fail-safe in your system which prevents your display tank from overflowing - due to excess water coming in but having no other place to go but the floor? It's probably something very simple about siphon overflows that I just don't comprehend.

 

I found a diagram that is pretty much the same thing as what I have:

 

 

 

There is one major difference. There is no hole in the top of my siphon tube. Instead of having a tube permanently in place to start the siphon with a pump, i just insert an airline into the tube such that the end of the airline is where the vinyl tubing is attached in the diagram, suck the air out of the siphon tube, and yank the air hose out of place while holding the siphon tube in place. Once my siphon is started, it can't break; there's no way for air to get in the tube, except in the form of bubbles that are carried there by the current. That is never a problem, because when the pump is on and the system is running, the flow through the siphon tube is much too fast for bubbles to accumulate, they just get swept through by the current and come out the other side. Thus, the siphon maintains itself indefinitely so long as I clean it every once in awhile to prevent algae build-up inside it. (The tube is clear)

 

If you look at the above diagram you can see that the drain line on the right (the box outside the tank) has a standpipe on it that makes it so that the water level in that box (and thus the box on the inside as well, due to the siphon) can't drop below the top of the standpipe. If the siphon tube remains "primed" and sealed, and neither end is ever exposed to air, there is no reason for the siphon to ever break. If the main pump cuts out in a power failure, water just stops flowing through the apparatus, but it remains ready to continue its work as soon as flow resumes.

 

Or, think of it this way: All a power failure does (from the overflow box's perspective) is reduce the flow rate to 0 GPH. This shouldn't be an issue, or else there would be all kinds of warnings out there about making sure you maintain a certain minimum flow rate or your tank will overflow!

 

As for the return lines, well, my return nozzles are just an inch or so below the surface of the water in the display, so the only water that siphons back to the sump in the event of a power failure is the top inch or two of the display. My sump can easily handle the excess capacity.

 

So, power failures aren't any more of a problem for me than for people who use drilled tanks with internal overflows. What I do worry about is something clogging or obstructing the siphon tube or the standpipe in the external box. That could be a mess! I have had this overflow box for over 10 years, and have used it an several different tanks in that time. So far, it has never failed me. (I inspect it daily, I don't want to take any chances)

 

Does that make it sort of clear?

 

-Josh

Edited November 29, 2007 by SPS20

[SPS20]

I had a thought. Up until now, I have been doing 5 gallon water changes every week. If I were to double the size of my water changes to 10 gallons (which is still super easy to do) and begin feeding the corals more heavily and frequently, I could hope to increase the growth rate and general health of my corals. They seem happy enough now, but, maybe I could really spoil them! My nutrient levels are all undetectable in this system as it is, so I think the system could handle the biological load. (undetectable levels of nitrates, phosphates, etc.) Most reefkeepers don't really feed their corals super heavily, since you want to avoid excess nutrient buildup. If I did weekly 50% water changes (something you would never do in a large tank) I think I could afford to feed alot more heavily, and well fed corals grow alot faster. Usually the small volume of water of a nano tank is considered a disadvantage, in terms of stability, but it also means that you can easily change a significant portion of the water with just a couple of 5 gallon buckets. Why not make it an advantage?

 

... i'm just pondering, not sure if i'm going to do it or not ...

 

-Josh

Edited November 29, 2007 by SPS20

[c est ma]

Josh,

 

Along those lines, you might be interested in this excerpt I posted from Borneman's website here:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=1308852

 

At any rate, I think your theory holds water (so to speak ) I can see no reason NOT to test it.

 

--Diane

[SPS20]

Josh,

 

Along those lines, you might be interested in this excerpt I posted from Borneman's website here:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=1308852

 

At any rate, I think your theory holds water (so to speak ) I can see no reason NOT to test it.

 

--Diane

 

That was an interesting read, thank for that! I may not have a huge skimmer, but I do have a refugium, a decent skimmer, and some nice live rock. I think my system could probably handle a pretty heavy load, especially with large water changes. I do worry a bit about just how far you can push a small volume of water (in terms of stocking) before the system becomes unstable. I have heard of reef tanks crashing for no other reason than the little ecosystem just had too much biomass relative to the water volume. The smaller the volume of water, the more likely water chemistry can spin out of control quickly. This is why I believe in overkill in skimming and water changes. It may not be strictly neccessary, but it gives you wiggle room.

[PurpleUP]

If the siphon tube remains "primed" and sealed, and neither end is ever exposed to air, there is no reason for the siphon to ever break. If the main pump cuts out in a power failure, water just stops flowing through the apparatus, but it remains ready to continue its work as soon as flow resumes.

 

So when the power in your home is restored, the siphon continues from where it left off without you having to manually restart it?

[SPS20]

So when the power in your home is restored, the siphon continues from where it left off without you having to manually restart it?

 

Yup. I turn the main pump off manually every time i feed, and turn it back on a half hour later. It hasn't caused a problem yet.

[PurpleUP]

Yup. I turn the main pump off manually every time i feed, and turn it back on a half hour later. It hasn't caused a problem yet.

 

NIIICE. Thanks for clarifying that. I should've run an overflow for my system!!@#! After using a siphon overflow for 10+ years, would you recommend a specific brand or model?

[SPS20]

NIIICE. Thanks for clarifying that. I should've run an overflow for my system!!@#! After using a siphon overflow for 10+ years, would you recommend a specific brand or model?

 

Nope. I would still reccomend drilling the tank if at all possible. Internal overflows are better than siphon-based ones. I don't know about brand names, really. I know lifereef makes a very solid product, and has been doing so forever. I would trust the construction of anything they make with my life. (if somehow there could possibly be a situation where my life depended on an overflow box, hehe)

 

The one I have doesn't really have a brand name. It was made by a local reefer about 10 years ago. The guy was handy with acrylic, so he made his own sumps, overflows, skimmers, etc. and sold them through the LFS. I have no idea what happened to the guy, since the LFS he sold his wares through went out of business 6 years ago.

 

Wait... you do run an overflow on your system, don't you? I mean, your tank isn't drilled and you have a sump, so you must. Yours is designed differently, but doesn't it also function on a siphon principle?

 

Now i'm just confused lol.

 

Tell you what, i'll take some close ups of my overflow tonight, so you can see exactly what the hell it is I have been yammering on about the past several posts.

 

- Josh

Edited November 29, 2007 by SPS20

[Oregon]

Josh,

 

It looks like you have essentially a small standpipe in your rear chamber of the overflow. Since the water level drop in an outage below the pipe but not low enough to release the siphon, the pressure stay until the overflow starts feeding again. The CPR's have a similar feature. But I've heard that air bubbles can destroy a siphon and thats where a pump comes in handy.

Do you keep your heater in the tank or in the sump. I'm redesigning my system and am actually going to hide a 50w black stealth heater behind the rockscape and keep one Koralia on the same plug, lined through a battery backup. All of the Koralias run on less than 7w of electricity! This way in an outage my tank wont lose temp or circulation. Keep us posted.

 

Reece

[SPS20]

Josh,

 

It looks like you have essentially a small standpipe in your rear chamber of the overflow. Since the water level drop in an outage below the pipe but not low enough to release the siphon, the pressure stay until the overflow starts feeding again. The CPR's have a similar feature. But I've heard that air bubbles can destroy a siphon and thats where a pump comes in handy.

Yep, its a little standpipe in the outside box. I hear what you are saying about bubble accumulation, but there is something about the design of my overflow box that avoids that problem. The water moving through the siphon tube just moves too fast for bubbles, even large ones, to accumulate at the top of the tube. They just zip through to the other end. So, I do understand that can be a problem with siphon overflows, but mine seems immune to it, at least at the flow rate through mine. I imagine if I throttled the flow waaaay back it would begin to suffer from bubble accumulation.

 

Do you keep your heater in the tank or in the sump. I'm redesigning my system and am actually going to hide a 50w black stealth heater behind the rockscape and keep one Koralia on the same plug, lined through a battery backup. All of the Koralias run on less than 7w of electricity! This way in an outage my tank wont lose temp or circulation. Keep us posted.

 

Reece

 

My heater is in my sump. That way it doesn't detract from the display, and it is in an area with very strong circulation, which should help keep my heating efficient. The Koralias are great little pumps. They spread the water they push into a wide diffuse fan, and move alot of water. Diffuse water flow is important in a nano, since we don't have the luxury of allowing a jet of water to diffuse as it passes through 6 feet of water. We need it to be diffuse flow within a foot or so after it leaves the powerhead. I really like the battery backup idea too. Thats pretty cool.

 

If I may make a suggestion, put the Koralia on a timer such that it turns on or off once every 15 minutes. That will add changing currents, but more importantly, it will double the abount of time the pump can run on battery backup. If its a long power failure, it might help. Just a thought, i'm not even sure its the best idea. I just wanted to toss it out there.

Edited November 30, 2007 by SPS20

[PurpleUP]

Nope. I would still reccomend drilling the tank if at all possible. Internal overflows are better than siphon-based ones. I don't know about brand names, really. I know lifereef makes a very solid product, and has been doing so forever. I would trust the construction of anything they make with my life. (if somehow there could possibly be a situation where my life depended on an overflow box, hehe)

 

The one I have doesn't really have a brand name. It was made by a local reefer about 10 years ago. The guy was handy with acrylic, so he made his own sumps, overflows, skimmers, etc. and sold them through the LFS. I have no idea what happened to the guy, since the LFS he sold his wares through went out of business 6 years ago.

 

Wait... you do run an overflow on your system, don't you? I mean, your tank isn't drilled and you have a sump, so you must. Yours is designed differently, but doesn't it also function on a siphon principle?

 

Now i'm just confused lol.

 

Tell you what, i'll take some close ups of my overflow tonight, so you can see exactly what the hell it is I have been yammering on about the past several posts.

 

- Josh

 

Yeah, my ADA tank does run an overflow, but it uses an aqua-lifter for auto re-start in the event of a power outage. The outflow from the tank isn't as powerful as I'd like to be, so I have to run a surface skimmer in addition to pull water down from the top. It's one of those AIO economical solutions, designed to reduce the possibility of flooding. The sump is more like a hybrid wet/dry canister filter.

[SPS20]

Yeah, my ADA tank does run an overflow, but it uses an aqua-lifter for auto re-start in the event of a power outage. The outflow from the tank isn't as powerful as I'd like to be, so I have to run a surface skimmer in addition to pull water down from the top. It's one of those AIO economical solutions, designed to reduce the possibility of flooding. The sump is more like a hybrid wet/dry canister filter.

 

Well, the proof is always in the pudding. If your tank is still as happy as it looks now in 6 months, I would say the filter system is doing its job. I like the concept of it, with the integrated top-off system and skimmer. I bet there is some part of you that wants to start hacking that filter apart and modding it to get increased performance. At least, part of me would want to. (and the other part would slap me silly for wanting to mutilate my expensive equipment)

[PurpleUP]

Well, the proof is always in the pudding. If your tank is still as happy as it looks now in 6 months, I would say the filter system is doing its job. I like the concept of it, with the integrated top-off system and skimmer. I bet there is some part of you that wants to start hacking that filter apart and modding it to get increased performance. At least, part of me would want to. (and the other part would slap me silly for wanting to mutilate my expensive equipment)

 

HAHAHA. you read my mind.

[SPS20]

I read somewhere today that blue Psammocora will get REALLY blue if kept under dim light. So, I shaded a small section of the coral (maybe 1 square inch) from the metal halide light by moving the return nozzle on that end of the tank to be directly over the coral. It still gets some indirect light, but not a whole lot. I'm going to watch that little section of the coral and see if:

1. It remains happy and healthy

2. The color changes at all in that section

 

If this is true, and it does get more colorful under dim light, and survives and grows well, than Psammocora would be a great SPS to try in lower-light softie tanks. Its got a nice color and texture, but so few people keep it. Hell, I had never even heard of the stuff until I got that piece ID'ed! Is it really hard to find, or have I just overlooked it all these years?

 

I love little mini-experiments. I'll let you all see the results (if there are any) in a few weeks or so.

 

- Josh

Edited November 30, 2007 by SPS20

[SPS20]

So, I have been slowly ramping up the amount and frequency of feeding for the corals over the course of the past few weeks. The idea is to make this change slowly, so that the microfauna that constitute the bulk of my CUC have a chance to catch up to the new load and reproduce.

 

I have noticed a few changes so far as a result. My phosphate and nitrate remain at undetectable levels, so the tank's denitryfying capacity hasn't been taxed too much, but I have noticed an increase in algae growth. I will be introducing more herbivores soon to help compensate, but I haven't decided exactly what, yet. The tank is obviously too small for a tang (which would be my first impulse in a larger tank in this situation) so I was thinking perhaps some more snails, a sea hare, or a lettuce slug. I'm not sure yet. The corals definitely look great as a result of the increased feedings, and the water quality is holding up fine, so far.

 

Here are a few pics I snapped off today:

 

My Cycloseris, close up:

 

A close up of my pink Pocillopora. You can see some of the algae growth I was talking about at the base of the coral. It really doesn't seem to be bothering any of the corals yet, but I think its time to get more herbivores in there just the same. There are so many of thriving species of macroalgae that popped out of the rock, it is truly amazing. I LOVE this live rock.

 

My hector's goby, in his hangout, hovering directly above the heliofungia. He will just hover here sometimes for minutes on end, nearly perfectly still. He's a neat fish, and is always busy working on his burrow underneath the rocks, sifting sand, nipping at tufts of algae, or hunting pods.

 

The Xenia is starting to really take off. Its time to place small rocks around the colony as a border to contain it. When it grows onto the small rocks, I'll remove them and take them to the LFS for credit. If I didn't do that, this stuff could easily take over my tank. This is taken through the right end of the tank, which is encrusted with tubeworms, so don't mind them.

 

I love the way my Bali Green Slimer looks against the background of my Favia. It looks like some kind of alien landscape.

 

More to come,

 

- Josh

Edited December 6, 2007 by SPS20

[Dj Orion]

hey i noticed that you seem to keep your anthelia at a very shot height. I have the same color anthelia in my 21g and it always seems to be grown much longer than yours (the stalks are about the same lenght as your xenia) I keep them under pc's right now, but they are going to be moved into my new ap 24 hqi. do you think that once they get more light, they will stop growning as much in length? (stop reaching for the light) I would just like to keep them shorter because there are some coo leathers that are on the same rock, and they suffocate them.

[SPS20]

Anthelia does tend to grow a bit closer to the rock in brighter light. Thats probably why. However, its also possible you have a slightly different variety which tends naturally to be taller.

[c est ma]

Great pics, Josh. I especially like the goby--very cool looking fish--and the Cycloseris, as I'm a fungiid fanatic.

 

--Diane

[TJ_Burton]

I want some of that blue anthelia!!! Haven't ever seen it in my area... =(

[SPS20]

I want some of that blue anthelia!!! Haven't ever seen it in my area... =(

 

Well, where do you live? If its close to me we should swap some frags!

Edited December 6, 2007 by SPS20

[SPS20]

In a few months it will be time to change my metal halide bulbs. (2 x 150W HQI) At the moment, I am using 2 Coralife 10k bulbs, and they seem to be working fine so far. My SPS have nice coloration and growth, and seem healthy. However, next time I want to try something a tiny bit more blue. I have tried the coralife 20k bulbs, and they are a nice blue color, but a bit too low in the PAR department to get the kind of growth i'd like to see from my corals. I don't have a whole lot of experience with 150W bulbs, as this is the first time I have used a 150W MH fixture. Before this tank, I have always used 250W and above, and I realize two bulbs of different wattage but the same color temperature (even made by the same manufacturer) are not going to give the same exact spectral signature. For example, I have noticed that Coralife 150W 10k bulbs are a wee bit yellower than their 250W 10k bulbs.

 

So, I am asking for reccomendations. What 150W bulbs would you reccomend? I don't supplement my lighting, its just metal halide pendants, so I am looking for a bulb that fills the following requirements:

 

1. 150W DE HQI (obviously)

2. Medium to high par values for the wattage. I know a 6500K is the highest par, but I want more blue than that. Is there a good compromise bulb?

3. I want something that will have enough blue to it to cause some flourescence.

4. I want something that will both bring out the colors visually, and help encourage pigmentation over the longer term.

5. Something above 10k color temp.

 

Ideas? What do others use? What bulbs do you like? Are there any bulbs you would definitely reccomend I avoid? I'd like to get as much input as possible before its time to actually change the bulbs.

 

These are some of the possibilities (I am open to others as well)

XM 10k, 15k, and 20k

Radium 20k

Phoenix 14k

Ushio 10k, 14k, and 20k+

Blue Life SPS 10k, 14k, and 20k

Megachrome 13k and 14.5k

AB 10k and 20k

 

- Josh

Edited December 6, 2007 by SPS20

[psam]

These are some of the possibilities (I am open to others as well)

XM 10k, 15k, and 20k

Radium 20k

Phoenix 14k

Ushio 10k, 14k, and 20k+

Blue Life SPS 10k, 14k, and 20k

Megachrome 13k and 14.5k

AB 10k and 20k

 

- Josh

 

Right now I'm on the Ushio 14K. Very good bulb after burn in, no need for actinic. The 2 geisemann you listed, despite the color temp, are very white. The 14.5K is nice, very bright, and similar to the Ushio 14K, but needs actinic, imo. Radium 20K is so so, Phoenix is junk imo if on electronic ballast - very monochromatic blue wash. Of the list, I've used all I just mentioned, 150w DE on electronic ballast. Also worth mention , the reeflux 12K is a very nice bulb, although low PAR.

[SPS20]

So, I changed the aquascaping in my tank over the last few days. I didn't move any of the larger rocks, but I did snap all the aquacultured corals that were still attached to their bases off their rocks and epoxied them where I want them to stay, long term. I fragged my green slimer as well.

 

I have been experiencing some increased algae growth since I have been feeding my corals more heavily. The corals have never looked better, but now I have tufts of green algae here and there. Time to add herbivores. I think i'll add a dozen or so trochus snails next weekend.

 

So here are some shots of the tank taken today:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here is a pic of a new fish I got today. He is about 3/4" long, is a goby, but nobody in the LFS knew what he was. Any ideas? He likes to perch upside down in caves, eats fine, and is totally non-agressive. The LFS said they had him for several months, and nobody wanted to buy him since he has a habit of swimming upside down in the bag, which has made several people refuse to purchase him. I'm not sure if he is "damaged" in some way, or if thats just the way his species is. It is rather disconcerting to see a fish swimming upside down. So, they gave me the fish for free. The store said that he hitched in on a shipment of gracilaria, and has no clue what he is, other than that he is a goby. (which seems obvious enough to me just by looking at him)

 

More to come,

- Josh

Edited December 10, 2007 by SPS20

[dtfleming]

Looks like an evita goby