Kinda's Large Tank Adventure (LTA)

[Tired]

Don't get me wrong, it's great that you're taking some of the advice here, that's always good. Kudos for listening, learning, and not just trying to insist that you're right. But you do need to take the advice about slowing way down. It's probably one of the most important pieces of advice there is. You'll enjoy the hobby way more if you take your time and do things at a reasonable rate, rather than rushing ahead for initial gratification and eventually crashing. 

[Kindanewtothis]

On 6/5/2021 at 4:13 PM, Clown79 said:

prime will help but if you are using an api or other liquid ammonia test, your future results won't be accurate, just thought it would be good to let you know that.

 

Prime effects the results of liquid regeant tests.

How long until I can test again ?

[Clown79]

24 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

How long until I can test again ?

If there is no fish in the tank, just let it cycle on its own

[Kindanewtothis]

2 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

If there is no fish in the tank, just let it cycle on its own

Just wanted to monitor it.

[seabass]

21 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Just wanted to monitor it.

You can test it as often as you wish.  However, if you were dosing Prime, I'd use a Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge to monitor it.  If you weren't dosing Prime, then your current test kit is probably adequate.

[Kindanewtothis]

8 minutes ago, seabass said:

You can test it as often as you wish.  However, if you were dosing Prime, I'd use a Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge to monitor it.  If you weren't dosing Prime, then your current test kit is probably adequate.

Sorry if I'm slow but I use prime once yesterday, what I want to know is how long is my current test ineffective?

[Clown79]

18 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Sorry if I'm slow but I use prime once yesterday, what I want to know is how long is my current test ineffective?

48hrs

[seabass]

Everyone, please pardon me while I get into the weeds about Prime a little here.  Prime temporarily (for between 24 and 48 hours) converts free ammonia (NH3) into ammonium (NH4+); afterwards, the remaining ammonium is permitted to convert back to free ammonia.

 

Total ammonia is the sum of free ammonia and ammonium.  At a high pH, ammonium is converted to free ammonia.  While at typical seawater pH levels, some ammonium converts to ammonia (NH3):

 

A lot of our test kits reflect total ammonia.  With salicylate based kits, it's because the reagents raise the pH of the sample.

 

We use Prime during an ammonia spike because ammonium is less toxic than free ammonia.  The nitrifying bacteria can still process ammonium, so we are not breaking the nitrogen cycle.  However, if testing total ammonia, we won't see this conversion.

 

Plus, depending on the reagents used, the use of Prime can affect the color of the resulting sample.  This color shift is sometimes misinterpreted as a higher level of ammonia.  Prime makes kits using Nessler's reagent result in a more brownish color, and can affect the chloride ion in salicylate based kits.

 

However, the Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge only tests for free ammonia (better reflecting the actual toxicity of the water when using Prime).  And since the Ammonia Alert Badge doesn't use Nessler's or sodium salicylate reagents, it's color is unaffected by the use of Prime.

[Kindanewtothis]

Flame angel is not helping the RG to get out...

[seabass]

Give it some time.  But I hope they all learn to get along.

On 5/8/2021 at 7:33 AM, seabass said:

It's hard to predict just how each fish will react.

 

We kind of discussed this a month ago:

On 5/8/2021 at 7:33 AM, seabass said:

I suspect the royal gramma might hide at first, then gain confidence.

On 5/8/2021 at 8:18 AM, seabass said:

Plus, clownfish and angelfish can get fairly aggressive.

On 5/8/2021 at 4:08 PM, seabass said:

The two clownfish and the dwarf angelfish should be alright together.  However, like you said, they might be a little much for some other fish.

[Kindanewtothis]

The feeding went well, they "met" officialy. It seems that it gave confidence to the RG and he is now peeking out.

[Kindanewtothis]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Give it some time.  But I hope they all learn to get along.

 

We kind of discussed this a month ago:

I remember all that, I'm just giving updates.

[Jakesaw]

Awesome,  I hope all goes well. 

 

RG is one of my favorite nano fish in spite of losing mine. 

 

Hope it plays out well. 

[seabass]

52 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I remember all that, I'm just giving updates.

I get it, and appreciate that.  I was simply pointing out that their behavior isn't all that unexpected.

 

I'm just happy that there doesn't seem to be signs of outward aggression, and that everyone is still healthy.

 

It's been a bit of a nail-biter, but everything might get through relatively unscathed.  Time to coast for awhile, and enjoy what you've created. 👍

[Kindanewtothis]

About the 10 gallons, many lfs recommand cycling the tank with a fish. It is clear now that this not the way to go. But how then? Just the rocks? I red about adding an uncook shrimp. I'm lost in all this. Since I had an ammonia spike the cycle is started and that's it? Sorry if you feel you already answered.

[Tired]

To cycle a tank, you need an ammonia source to feed the bacteria. Fish release ammonia, so cycling with fish does work, but it's inhumane- the ammonia burns their gills, causing them pain and potentially permanent damage. Adding a small piece of dead shrimp can work okay, as that will decay and release ammonia. Some people "ghost feed", putting a pinch of fish food in every day. Both those methods are less controlled, though. The best way is to get pure, bottled ammonia, and dose it. Raise the ammonia to 2ppm on a regular basis, and that will provide plenty of food for the bacteria.

 

Once you can raise the amount of ammonia to 2ppm, and then have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and some nitrates in 24 hours, the tank is cycled and ready for fish. It's not recommended to add corals at that point, but some hardy species may work. 

[seabass]

Well, you stated that this rock was live and taken from a mature saltwater tank.  However, either this rock was left out of the water for a significant amount of time (which caused die-off), or it wasn't what they sold it as.  If it was mature rock which was kept wet, you wouldn't have seen an ammonia spike in your quarantine tank.  That's why I never take someone else's word and I test for ammonia after several days before adding livestock (or even when adding the rock to a tank with livestock).

 

The new rock which is in your 50 gallon tank is currently being cured.  By the way, you should be checking that tank for ammonia too, as that rock might be creating a significant amount of ammonia.

 

With the remaining rock that is in the 10 gallon tank, is there any non-bacterial life on it?  If so, you don't want to add any ammonia, or an ammonia source.  However, and I stated how new it looked, if it doesn't have any life on it, you could use the fishless cycling method (basically as outlined by Tired):

• Dose ammonium chloride to 2ppm
• Wait for ammonia to fall to 0.25ppm
• Repeat until your tank can process 2ppm down to 0.25ppm within 24 hours

I'm not a fan of letting flesh rot in your tank as an ammonia source.  This adds excess organics, as well as inorganic nutrients (phosphate and nitrate).

 

However, for your situation, I'd probably just let the ammonia become undetectable in your 10 gallon tank.  Maybe dose your bottled bacteria in the 10 gallon too.  But keep the rock that you transferred into your 50 gallon tank in there for a few weeks (while it becomes fully cured).  Then when you place it back in, your tank will be ready for your shrimp goby and shrimp.

[Clown79]

55 minutes ago, Kindanewtothis said:

About the 10 gallons, many lfs recommand cycling the tank with a fish. It is clear now that this not the way to go. But how then? Just the rocks? I red about adding an uncook shrimp. I'm lost in all this. Since I had an ammonia spike the cycle is started and that's it? Sorry if you feel you already answered.

Cycling with fish is considered inhumane and old school.

 

Your tank already has ammonia present, there really isn't any need to add a shrimp. Adding the shrimp is to produce ammonia, which you alreafy have in the tank.

 

I'd just add bacteria supplement and let the tank cycle on its own.

[Kindanewtothis]

44 minutes ago, seabass said:

it wasn't what they sold it as. 

That must be it but there is life on these rocks and coraline algae. They were out of the water for about 45 minutes for the transport (I know...)

 

 

[seabass]

Next time bring some 5 gallon buckets half full of saltwater to transport your live rock.  45 minutes isn't that long, but at a minimum, it should have been wrapped in wet towels or even newspaper during transport.

 

Have you checked ammonia in your 50 gallon tank lately?

[Kindanewtothis]

5 minutes ago, seabass said:

Have you checked ammonia in your 50 gallon tank lately?

Yesterday, 0. I'll test it again tonight.

[seabass]

Great!  I figured that it might be OK, but I'd hate for you to expose all of your fish to high ammonia.

[rough eye]

i didn't think people normally cycle quarantine tanks.

[Kindanewtothis]

7 minutes ago, rough eye said:

i didn't think people normally cycle quarantine tanks.

Well it's not really a qt tank anymore...

[seabass]

27 minutes ago, rough eye said:

i didn't think people normally cycle quarantine tanks.

They probably should, even if just using bio-media in a HOB filter.  It would be harder setting up (and cycling) an emergency hospital tank.