Adventures in keeping a SPS reef

[ryans.salty.crew]

Do what makes you happy and don't forget to enjoy the beauty of what you have. I've seen people in the hobby that struggle to even have any corals. Sorry to hear about the j.o.b.

[Llorgon]

On 11/8/2023 at 6:53 AM, mcarroll said:

Glad to see the tank update, the rest is obviously a bummer.  Hang in there, man!

Thanks, Hopefully things get better and I can get back to enjoying the hobby again.

On 11/8/2023 at 7:04 AM, ryans.salty.crew said:

Do what makes you happy and don't forget to enjoy the beauty of what you have. I've seen people in the hobby that struggle to even have any corals. Sorry to hear about the j.o.b.

Good point. I might just be a soft coral capable guy, not the worst. I have had more compliments on the pulsing xenia then any other coral I have had. Job thing does suck, but such is life in the tech sector. Not the first time I have been laid off and it won't be the last.

[mcarroll]

3 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I might just be a soft coral capable guy, not the worst.

If you want a simpler coral focus, dedicated mushroom tanks look GREAT almost no matter how much (or little) you want to spend on it.  (I don't advise adding them to a mixed stony coral system though....they don't mix well IME.)

[Llorgon]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:10 PM, mcarroll said:

If you want a simpler coral focus, dedicated mushroom tanks look GREAT almost no matter how much (or little) you want to spend on it.  (I don't advise adding them to a mixed stony coral system though....they don't mix well IME.)

There are some cool looking mushrooms. Lots of colour options. I will look to add some of them. I will probably stick with soft corals and things I know I can keep alive and growing like acans. I'm really bummed at how big of a hit my acan collection took. I have also had good luck with rockflower anemone's so I might add one or two of them as well.

 

I will also need to address my aiptasia issue. I have been killing them manually, but that is a losing battle.

 

All this went I get a job though!

[Llorgon]

Is there any saving this a can? It's got 2 heads left. I got most of the aiptasia off from around it and I am working on the algae.

[Llorgon]

It's been awhile, I thought I should do a tank update. I'm back working so I'm trying to get the fun back into the hobby.

 

I have basically just let the tank run the last little while. It's been about a month and a half or so since the last water change. In that time I have fed the fish, refiled the ato reservoir and scrapped the front glass once a week. 

 

As a result, things have gone pretty smoothly all things considered. I'm still struggling with algae mostly on the back wall and a few places on the rocks. The few corals I do have, have been growing. The pulsing Xenia is taking over though, as expected. 

 

The things I need to focus on now are:

 

What the heck do I do with this tank. Soft corals, sps,lps, anything I like, something more unique, tear it all down?

 

I need to try and get the Xenia under control

 

Why has my GSP lost all it's green and not grown in 6months?

 

Aiptasia... There's so many of them, everywhere... Killing them by hand doesn't make a dent. Nudibranches are $50 each here. 

 

The usual hair algae or whatever it is. Still working on that.

 

Why does Coraline not grow on my rocks?!

 

I need to reconnect my apex to my network. It has been unable to connect for who knows how long now.

 

I badly need to trim the chaeto in the refugium and recalibrate my skimmer.

 

I also tested my water today for the first time in quite awhile.

Alk: 6.5

Cal: 495

Mag: 1330

Nitrate: 0

Phosphate: 0.031

 

I seem to be dosing a huge amount of alk for what little stoney corals I have in the tank. I'm currently dosing 12ml a day and I'm going to bump it up to 15ml and see if that slowly brings all up.

[rimga123]

corals look nice and healthy!

i love to see this tank back on track

nutrients on the low side and some algae still around. but i am sure that you will get them under control now that you back at it!

 

 

[Llorgon]

3 hours ago, rimga123 said:

corals look nice and healthy!

i love to see this tank back on track

nutrients on the low side and some algae still around. but i am sure that you will get them under control now that you back at it!

 

 

Thanks! It is definitely better than it has been.

 

I'm really not sure what to do about the nutrients. I last tested my water around early Nov and nitrates were at 0 then. I started to dose a bit of nitrates each day for a week and things started to go south. I was getting lots of cyano and more gha growth.

 

Looking back at the tank notes, when the original version of this tank was running well and things were growing, nitrates were also reading 0. Things started to go wrong when I tried to bring them up and keep them up. Maybe the tanks happy place is at 0?

I do still have algae growth/chaeto growth and I need to clean the glass weekly. So there is some nutrients there... I think.

[mcarroll]

On 2/7/2024 at 5:32 PM, Llorgon said:

I need to try and get the Xenia under control

Looking at this as "success" or "out of control" is a choice.  If you like Xenia, then this is a jamming tank...."out of control" only in the the good way. 😉

 

If you look at this as out of control (don't like Xenia THAT much), then I think it might be wise to admit defeat, say the Xenia won and sell the rock (patiently – for $$$) as Xenia live rock on (eg) craigslist.

 

On 2/7/2024 at 5:32 PM, Llorgon said:

Why has my GSP lost all it's green and not grown in 6months?

 

Aiptasia... There's so many of them, everywhere... Killing them by hand doesn't make a dent. Nudibranches are $50 each here. 

 

The usual hair algae or whatever it is. Still working on that.

 

Why does Coraline not grow on my rocks?!

 

I need to reconnect my apex to my network. It has been unable to connect for who knows how long now.

 

I badly need to trim the chaeto in the refugium and recalibrate my skimmer.

 

I also tested my water today for the first time in quite awhile.

Alk: 6.5

Cal: 495

Mag: 1330

Nitrate: 0

Phosphate: 0.031

Nutrient Levels

With hair algae and Xenia  AND a chaeto refugium keeping nutrient levels so low, it's not too surprising to hear that the other things you listed are struggling.  Fish should be well fed.  If you think feeding more would be over-feeding, then I think you have to consider either eliminating some nutrient removal (chaeto would go first IMO) or dosing nutrients to maintain at least minimum levels.

 

Coral Warfare

If you aren't already using a little activated carbon, maybe consider it....large Xenia population and the significant Leather coral population both would suggest using it.  Some or all of your coral problems "could be" allelopathy going on between corals.

 

Aiptasia

What, if anything, are you doing to help them spread?  Broadcast feeding should be avoided when at all possible, until they are gone.

 

If you aren't helping them out "too much" then you should be able to make headway with something like Aiptasia X.

 

If you had to say on average how many aiptasia are there per rock?

 

Using Peppermint Shrimp or even a Klein's Butterflyfish is a good option, but compared to Aiptasia X they are not without some level of risk to other corals.  (Again look up old threads where folks have used them before before you decide on either.)

 

It's hard to imagine $50/nudi being worth it for Bhergia.   I dunno if you'd need more than 5-10 to get started, but that translates to anywhere between $250 and $500 worth of Aiptasia control!!  Pretty much kills any economy in going this route.  (You could start a whole new tank for $500!). For what it's worth, I see them for $12/each online....probably not including shipping.  There's a LOT of room between $50 and $12, so maybe you can haggle for a better price locally but still support someone working to provide a local supply?

[Llorgon]

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Looking at this as "success" or "out of control" is a choice.  If you like Xenia, then this is a jamming tank...."out of control" only in the the good way. 😉

 

If you look at this as out of control (don't like Xenia THAT much), then I think it might be wise to admit defeat, say the Xenia won and sell the rock (patiently – for $$$) as Xenia live rock on (eg) craigslist.

Very true. It is a success, it grows... a bit too well. I like the xenia, just not that much of it and it's crowding other corals I like more.

 

I put out some more feelers for xenia and actually got a couple takers. And maybe one person interested in a trade for other softies!

 

I'm not going to admit defeat...yet.

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Nutrient Levels

With hair algae and Xenia  AND a chaeto refugium keeping nutrient levels so low, it's not too surprising to hear that the other things you listed are struggling.  Fish should be well fed.  If you think feeding more would be over-feeding, then I think you have to consider either eliminating some nutrient removal (chaeto would go first IMO) or dosing nutrients to maintain at least minimum levels.

Once I get this stupid Apex back connected to the internet my plan was to lower the hours the refugium light is on. Plus I really need to trim back the chaeto.

 

Fish are good food wise, I think. I feed them frozen once a day. I could add some pellets in the morning though and see how that goes.

 

I probably have to dose. This tank always seems low on Nitrate, but the tank always goes out of whack when I dose... so I am always a bit hesitant...

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Coral Warfare

If you aren't already using a little activated carbon, maybe consider it....large Xenia population and the significant Leather coral population both would suggest using it.  Some or all of your coral problems "could be" allelopathy going on between corals.

I do have carbon in the tank, but I haven't changed it in months. It's definitely time. I didn't think of coral warfare. Good point! I will replace the carbon today while doing my water change.

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Aiptasia

What, if anything, are you doing to help them spread?  Broadcast feeding should be avoided when at all possible, until they are gone.

I broadcast feed frozen food for the fish each night, but that's it. And I am pretty sure they eat 95% of it. If I feed the acans, I turn the flow off and put the reef roids directly on them. So I don't think I am doing much to really help them spread.

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If you aren't helping them out "too much" then you should be able to make headway with something like Aiptasia X.

 

If you had to say on average how many aiptasia are there per rock?

I counted 25 on one part of a rock... they are in the sand, the rocks, on the back wall... just everywhere.

 

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Using Peppermint Shrimp or even a Klein's Butterflyfish is a good option, but compared to Aiptasia X they are not without some level of risk to other corals.  (Again look up old threads where folks have used them before before you decide on either.)

It would be great to get a fish that would solve my aiptasia problems, but they all seem to also eat coral! I also looked into the aiptasia eating file fish since I could get a captive bred one, but it seems a bit risky. I had a peppermint shrimp in a 10g I had and it ate all the aiptasia. So I think I would try that route again if I can find them in stock.

 

17 hours ago, mcarroll said:

It's hard to imagine $50/nudi being worth it for Bhergia.   I dunno if you'd need more than 5-10 to get started, but that translates to anywhere between $250 and $500 worth of Aiptasia control!!  Pretty much kills any economy in going this route.  (You could start a whole new tank for $500!). For what it's worth, I see them for $12/each online....probably not including shipping.  There's a LOT of room between $50 and $12, so maybe you can haggle for a better price locally but still support someone working to provide a local supply?

The local supply is $50/nudi. I can order them online for anywhere between $14-$40 each, but that would include shipping. So if I was looking for 6 ish to start it would still be $100+ for them. At one point I got 2 free ones from a guy closing down his tank... the clowns ate one and pulled another off the rock. So peppermint shrimp might be the way to go.

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I probably have to dose. This tank always seems low on Nitrate, but the tank always goes out of whack when I dose... so I am always a bit hesitant...

"out of whack" how?

 

It would be ideal to have the algae 90+% cleared out before you start dosing for obvious reasons – you want to to boost your corals, not the algae! 😉 

 

If it does come to dosing, it doesn't make much sense to dose AND run a macro algae fuge....your right hand is just working against your left hand.

 

Maybe start by only increasing phosphates to 0.05 ppm (ie no change to NO3) and see how that change alone goes for a week or a month?  Then make a small increase to nitrates up to around 5 ppm if it still seems like an adjustment is needed.

 

6 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I do have carbon in the tank, but I haven't changed it in months. It's definitely time. I didn't think of coral warfare. Good point! I will replace the carbon today while doing my water change.

Cool.  You can see how things go over the next week/month with fresh carbon....see if you can notice any difference/improvement.

 

6 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I counted 25 on one part of a rock... they are in the sand, the rocks, on the back wall... just everywhere.

Well, if you feel like taking them on, start with one "zone" at a time and focus JUST ON THAT until it's clean. (Even if it takes a few separate cleaning sessions.)

 

IMO at least, DO NOT try to work on the whole tank at once.  When you spread your work all over the tank and then step back to look at the result it can feel like you aren't making progress at all .

 

Once you have them reduced down to the areas/individuals that you CANNOT get to with Aiptasia X, you will be in a much better position to consider additional measures like Berghia, etc.

 

6 hours ago, Llorgon said:

It would be great to get a fish that would solve my aiptasia problems, but they all seem to also eat coral! I also looked into the aiptasia eating file fish since I could get a captive bred one, but it seems a bit risky. I had a peppermint shrimp in a 10g I had and it ate all the aiptasia. So I think I would try that route again if I can find them in stock.

Some aiptasia eating fish are a MUCH safer bet than others – some fish REALLY focus on aiptasia with preference – but at the bottom line when all the aiptasia are gone, I think a polyp is a polyp.  Aiptasia are mostly defenseless compared to most other polyps – not toxic, no stony skeleton, etc – so IMO the "preference" is logical, even if it isn't strict.

 

IMO peppermint shrimp are more fun that those fish too. 😉 

 

I haven't had a file fish before (not the captive bred "aiptasia eaters" anyway), but they don't sound to be any less risk than the other good fish options...and they look like a freshwater fish.  Not very appealing as an option, at least on the surface.  🤷‍♂️

 

 

[Llorgon]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

"out of whack" how?

I think the last time I tested my water was November and nitrates came out to be 0. When I slowly started to dose nitrates over the course of a week I ended up with an explosion of gha and cyano. And then gha starting to overtake corals.

 

Whereas when the tank has nitrates at 0, I'm still getting coral growth and pretty good colour. There's algae growth, but not to nuisance levels.

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

It would be ideal to have the algae 90+% cleared out before you start dosing for obvious reasons – you want to to boost your corals, not the algae! 😉 

 

If it does come to dosing, it doesn't make much sense to dose AND run a macro algae fuge....your right hand is just working against your left hand.

 

Maybe start by only increasing phosphates to 0.05 ppm (ie no change to NO3) and see how that change alone goes for a week or a month?  Then make a small increase to nitrates up to around 5 ppm if it still seems like an adjustment is needed.

I may need to try this over a longer period of time. A week might have been too quickly.

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Cool.  You can see how things go over the next week/month with fresh carbon....see if you can notice any difference/improvement.

The only coral that is unhappy right now is a Kenya tree I put in there. Changing the carbon and a water change hasn't made it happy yet.

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Well, if you feel like taking them on, start with one "zone" at a time and focus JUST ON THAT until it's clean. (Even if it takes a few separate cleaning sessions.)

 

IMO at least, DO NOT try to work on the whole tank at once.  When you spread your work all over the tank and then step back to look at the result it can feel like you aren't making progress at all .

Oh I tried this! 1 day for each section. By the end of the week they were popping up in the first section I worked on!

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Once you have them reduced down to the areas/individuals that you CANNOT get to with Aiptasia X, you will be in a much better position to consider additional measures like Berghia, etc.

 

Some aiptasia eating fish are a MUCH safer bet than others – some fish REALLY focus on aiptasia with preference – but at the bottom line when all the aiptasia are gone, I think a polyp is a polyp.  Aiptasia are mostly defenseless compared to most other polyps – not toxic, no stony skeleton, etc – so IMO the "preference" is logical, even if it isn't strict.

 

IMO peppermint shrimp are more fun that those fish too. 😉 

 

I haven't had a file fish before (not the captive bred "aiptasia eaters" anyway), but they don't sound to be any less risk than the other good fish options...and they look like a freshwater fish.  Not very appealing as an option, at least on the surface.  🤷‍♂️

 

 

I thought the aptasia eating file fish looked pretty interesting. I do agree that the peppermint shrimp probably adds more personality to the tank.

[Llorgon]

Tank update for the day.

 

Apex - after an hour and a bit of fighting with the Apex, I got it connected to my new Wi-Fi and fusion again! Hurray!!

 

I changed the refugium light time from 12hrs to 7. So I'll see over the course of the week if nitrates go up or not.

 

Refugium. Here's what it looked like 

 

And below the chaeto

 

I removed a bit over half of the chaeto. That should reduce the uptake of nutrients... Hopefully. 

 

Here's the big bowl I removed.

 

 

I switched out the carbon today as well. Unfortunately I only got half a bag since that's all I had left. I'll have to pick some more up tomorrow.

 

I found this in the sump, any idea on what it is?

 

 

I also did a water change, removed some algae and tried to make a bit of a dent in the aptasia.

 

A bit of an interesting update on the Xenia situation. I got a few bites today. 2 people came by to pick some up, someone is open to trading a finger leather coral for some Xenia and one guy has a 700g predator tank and said he will take as much as I want to sell to him! 

 

Still no takers on the Kenya trees though.

 

So I should be able to free up some coral space for more interesting soft corals.

[mcarroll]

4 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Oh I tried this! 1 day for each section. By the end of the week they were popping up in the first section I worked on!

Either that was a bit of a fluke OR they might be doing better off the broadcast fish feeding than you think.  They don't really spread unless they're getting fed.  

 

If you think maybe that's the case, the only suggestion I'd have is to shut off the pumps while you feed the fish.  Something I never do or really recommend, but in this case sounds like it would be called for....at least until they are under control (ie gone).

 

Also, I'm a little surprised that you got a 100% success rate on that one day per section....I almost always have to go back 2-3 times on a rock if there are a bunch of them.  Any chance you think you may have just had some hiding you didn't get on the first round?

 

4 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I found this in the sump, any idea on what it is?

Sponge?

 

 

 

Sounds like you're getting some momentum!! 🙂 

 

[Llorgon]

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Either that was a bit of a fluke OR they might be doing better off the broadcast fish feeding than you think.  They don't really spread unless they're getting fed.  

It could be a combination of both. It doesn't look like the food gets to them, but obviously something is.

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If you think maybe that's the case, the only suggestion I'd have is to shut off the pumps while you feed the fish.  Something I never do or really recommend, but in this case sounds like it would be called for....at least until they are under control (ie gone).

 

Also, I'm a little surprised that you got a 100% success rate on that one day per section....I almost always have to go back 2-3 times on a rock if there are a bunch of them.  Any chance you think you may have just had some hiding you didn't get on the first round?

I'm sure I didn't get all of them on the first go. I just got all the ones I could see. Also the aptasia x seems to be a bit hit and miss on if it actually kills them the first time or not.

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Sponge?

 

Maybe? It's kinda cool whatever it is.

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

Sounds like you're getting some momentum!! 🙂 

 

Definitely some momentum. Got rid of some Xenia, which I was surprised how easily it pulls off the rocks with tweezers. And I will be trading some for a finger leather today.

[mcarroll]

41 minutes ago, Llorgon said:

It could be a combination of both. It doesn't look like the food gets to them, but obviously something is.

I'm sure I didn't get all of them on the first go. I just got all the ones I could see. Also the aptasia x seems to be a bit hit and miss on if it actually kills them the first time or not.

Definitely isn't a magic bullet.  🙂  But then, what is?  Persistence rules.  Maybe still go from rock to rock, but focus on one rock for a whole week?  Something like that?

 

41 minutes ago, Llorgon said:

Maybe? It's kinda cool whatever it is.

Tells you there's enough particulate and/or dissolved organic matter for it to grow there.  Might be a clue about how/why the aiptasia are able to do so well.  

 

Also makes me wonder if there could be any correlation between the refugium output and the aiptasia's feeding success?  "Food for the reef" is kinda one of the main ideas behind operating a refugium, even if this isn't what anyone has in mind when they think about a fuge.

 

41 minutes ago, Llorgon said:

Definitely some momentum. Got rid of some Xenia, which I was surprised how easily it pulls off the rocks with tweezers. And I will be trading some for a finger leather today.

Nice!

[Llorgon]

On 2/10/2024 at 11:26 AM, mcarroll said:

Definitely isn't a magic bullet.  🙂  But then, what is?  Persistence rules.  Maybe still go from rock to rock, but focus on one rock for a whole week?  Something like that?

Not a bad idea. I've done a week of trying to kill all the aptasia from around the acans. Again, seemed to work great but I had to be constantly on it. Once one popped up more soon followed.

 

On 2/10/2024 at 11:26 AM, mcarroll said:

Tells you there's enough particulate and/or dissolved organic matter for it to grow there.  Might be a clue about how/why the aiptasia are able to do so well.  

 

Also makes me wonder if there could be any correlation between the refugium output and the aiptasia's feeding success?  "Food for the reef" is kinda one of the main ideas behind operating a refugium, even if this isn't what anyone has in mind when they think about a fuge.

Hmm this could be. I have a ton of tube like things in the refugium. Might be feather dusters? And lots of little sponges and whatever that big thing is on the side, there's actually a couple of those.

 

So you are probably onto something with that theory. When I fed my fish last night, I watched to see how much food wasn't eaten and most that fell to the bottom was cleaned up by the tangs. So some is making it's way past the fish, but not a ton.

On 2/10/2024 at 11:26 AM, mcarroll said:

Nice!

 

[Llorgon]

I did some more work on the tank yesterday. Having a good streak of tank maintenance going. 

 

I did another round of aptasia x on the stupid aptasia. 

 

I recalibrated the red sea doser. It wasn't too far off which was good. I also tested my alk and I've got it up to 7.4 now.

 

I'm slowly trying to increase nutrients. I upped my feeding and dosed a bit of nitrate.

 

I was able to pickup more carbon so I now have about a bag and a half of fresh carbon in the sump.

 

Corals for the most part are doing well except the Kenya tree. It has been closed up for about 4 days now.

 

I have sold and traded a bunch of Xenia. I'm not sure you can tell, but I got rid of a bunch that was shading my montipora and I can now see the sunset I think it is montipora.

 

 

I picked up a few corals from another reefer. He bought an established 300g tank and had a bunch of coral he doesn't want so he gave me a bunch for free!

 

I got a couple finger leathers

 

 

Some branching GSP. Hopefully it does better than the current GSP I have.

 

And I'm not sure what this one is

[Llorgon]

I sold off most of the Xenia today. It frees up so much room for coral! Then Kenya tree I had in there was almost instantly open again once all the Xenia was removed.

 

I did have to reglue all the corals I put on the rocks on the weekend. Luckily they all seem fine.

 

I also did some more aptasia killing! There were so many hiding in the Xenia! Hopefully I made a decent dent in them.

 

Now I need to figure out what other corals to add and where's the best place to put those giant Kenya trees?

[Llorgon]

I'm trying to find a good place to put all the Kenya trees from the 25g. Since they are pretty big, I am thinking of putting them on the sand in the bottom right of the tank.

 

These are the Kenya trees in question. There are 5 of them all on one rock.

 

I'm not sure if I should cut them off the rock or just move the rock all together. I do like the rock in the tank where it is currently...

 

I've started my search for peppermint shrimp. Does anyone know if they ship well? I can get some locally, but they are $40/each!

 

I've been trying to put together some stocking lists for corals, fish and inverts. 

 

I'm still having trouble what kind of soft corals to add next. Maybe some mushrooms, anemone maybe? I don't know a ton of soft corals. I'll probably check online and pickup things that look interesting.

 

Fish, I'd like to add a few more so the tank doesn't look so empty. If possible, I'd like to try and get captive bred fish. I'm thinking a coral beauty, but haven't decided on what else to add. Maybe a few smaller fish?

 

Inverts, I have a decent list, but open to suggestions.

3 peppermint shrimp

Money cowrie - I have 1, but they are cool and would like to get some more.

Cleaner shrimp - would this and the peppermint get along?

2x porcelain crab

Fighting conch

Then restock snails

Any other inverts that would make the tank more interesting?

 

Overall most of the corals seem to be much happier with a bunch of the Xenia gone. I'll probably try and sell more of it.

[rimga123]

id say just cut off the kenya trees, but try to leave as little flesh on the rock as possible, otherwise it will just grow back.

 

mushrooms and anemones are my new big craze, so I am a bit bias towards them, but you couldn't go wrong with some ricordia floridas and yumas. rhodactis come in a great variety of colors. but can be very aggresive. these days you can even get discosoma mushrooms with impressive colorations. all super easy to keep!

anemones are also great, but can be aggresive. bubble tips are a bit annoying, they become (or can become) like a fancier aipatasia, rock flower nems are expenvie, and mini maxi carpet anemones are super aggresive (not all), but the colors are amazing! and you can make a few bob back if they multiply.

 

seems like your current corals are doing great now, so if you dont have a sever PTSD from your last experience, you could try hammers and torches again?

 

inverts- I swear by money cowries and fighting conches, they are the best algae eater that I have ever seen. they dont get lazy when they get bigger, like turbos, conches will also go after long stringy hair algae that wouldnt be touched by turbos.

i could only imagine that peppermint shrimps ship well, here in Ireland all of them are imported and I rarely see or hear of any not making the transport. although I personally never had good luck with them going after aiptasia. Even if they did at the beginning they would eventually get lazy and just wait till i feed the tank.

Porcelain crabs are mesmerizing creatures, especially if you have an anemone or other anemone like coral for them to host.

 

I'd say that if you went ahead with what you have planned there, you'll be happy enough. I can't see any of the stock that you mentioned clashing between each other

 

 

 

[Llorgon]

10 hours ago, rimga123 said:

id say just cut off the kenya trees, but try to leave as little flesh on the rock as possible, otherwise it will just grow back.

I was leaning towards this too. I can cut them, glue them to another piece of rock and put that into the tank.

10 hours ago, rimga123 said:

mushrooms and anemones are my new big craze, so I am a bit bias towards them, but you couldn't go wrong with some ricordia floridas and yumas. rhodactis come in a great variety of colors. but can be very aggresive. these days you can even get discosoma mushrooms with impressive colorations. all super easy to keep!

anemones are also great, but can be aggresive. bubble tips are a bit annoying, they become (or can become) like a fancier aipatasia, rock flower nems are expenvie, and mini maxi carpet anemones are super aggresive (not all), but the colors are amazing! and you can make a few bob back if they multiply.

I have only had one musroom, it was one of the first corals I bought for my first 10g...I killed it... so much for indestructible!

But there are some cool looking mushrooms! I quite like the fuzzy ones.

 

I had a rockflower before. I really liked it and wanted to get more, but ya they are expensive. I have never had an actual anemone before. I would definitely like to try it if I can find a cheap one.

 

10 hours ago, rimga123 said:

seems like your current corals are doing great now, so if you dont have a sever PTSD from your last experience, you could try hammers and torches again?

As much as I like the euphyllia, I just never seem to have great luck with them long term. They grow to 3 heads -> die back to one -> grow back to 5+ -> die all together. It's a pattern now. I have no idea why they do this. It's not like all the euphyllia do it at once either. I have a gold hammer in my other tank and it's not really growing or doing anything. It is at the 3 head point though.

 

I think for now, I am going to keep this tank as a softy tank minus the 3 SPS that survived (2 montis and a forest fire). And I will eventually move the acans into my smaller tank.

10 hours ago, rimga123 said:

inverts- I swear by money cowries and fighting conches, they are the best algae eater that I have ever seen. they dont get lazy when they get bigger, like turbos, conches will also go after long stringy hair algae that wouldnt be touched by turbos.

i could only imagine that peppermint shrimps ship well, here in Ireland all of them are imported and I rarely see or hear of any not making the transport. although I personally never had good luck with them going after aiptasia. Even if they did at the beginning they would eventually get lazy and just wait till i feed the tank.

Porcelain crabs are mesmerizing creatures, especially if you have an anemone or other anemone like coral for them to host.

 

I'd say that if you went ahead with what you have planned there, you'll be happy enough. I can't see any of the stock that you mentioned clashing between each other

 

 

 

I have one money cowrie and I only see it once in awhile, but it's a pretty cool little snail. I have only tried a peppermint shrimp once, but it cleaned out all the aptasia in the 10g I had it in.

 

I keep looking through fish to try and decide on stocking. Part of me thinks adding a bunch of little gobies and stuff would be interesting. Seeing all these little fish hanging and swimming around everywhere, but I am not sure that would work out.

 

Picture those large freshwater tanks with all the schools of small fish, but saltwater. I don't think there are any small schooling reef fish though...

 

[mcarroll]

On 2/15/2024 at 11:11 PM, Llorgon said:

I can get some locally, but they are $40/each!

If people are *actually paying* $40/ea, then breed your own:

 

12 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I was leaning towards this too. I can cut them, glue them to another piece of rock and put that into the tank.

You will want to look up fragging leather corals (soecifically Kenya's if possible) since it goes really different from stony corals.

 

12 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I have only had one musroom, it was one of the first corals I bought for my first 10g...I killed it... so much for indestructible!

That's worth another try IMO.  (At least if you like mushrooms.)

 

12 hours ago, Llorgon said:

As much as I like the euphyllia, I just never seem to have great luck with them long term. They grow to 3 heads -> die back to one -> grow back to 5+ -> die all together. It's a pattern now. I have no idea why they do this.

If I recall correctly your system has had some extended bouts with low nutrients.  Euphylias like lots of nutrients – so they were never really comfortable for long.

 

12 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Picture those large freshwater tanks with all the schools of small fish, but saltwater. I don't think there are any small schooling reef fish though...

None.  All the schooling fish are too big for home aquariums.  You do see them in gigantic public aquariums tho.

 

Fish that small out in the open on a reef GET EATEN.

 

Maybe consider one or more Barnacle Blennies?

 

 

[Llorgon]

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If people are *actually paying* $40/ea, then breed your own:

Ya, the little LFS is pretty pricey. I can order them in for cheaper online. It sounds like they ship ok, so I will definitely do that. Unfortunately it's not as cheap as it is in the states.

 

Breeding peppermint shrimp would be an interesting experiment though!

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

You will want to look up fragging leather corals (soecifically Kenya's if possible) since it goes really different from stony corals.

Is it? I've always cut them with scissors and then glueing them to a piece of rock. I guess I'll have to look into it!

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That's worth another try IMO.  (At least if you like mushrooms.)

Definitely. There are some cool looking mushrooms out there that could add some nice colour to the tank!

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If I recall correctly your system has had some extended bouts with low nutrients.  Euphylias like lots of nutrients – so they were never really comfortable for long.

Correct. None of the euphyllia in this tank survive. In my 25g I had the opposite problem of nutrients being 5-10 nitrate and around 0.1 phosphate. That's where the euphyllia would do their 1 head to 3 to 1 to 5+ then dead.

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

None.  All the schooling fish are too big for home aquariums.  You do see them in gigantic public aquariums tho.

 

Fish that small out in the open on a reef GET EATEN.

 

Maybe consider one or more Barnacle Blennies?

 

 

I'll check out barnacle blennies. I was thinking 2-3 rainfords gobies. It sounds like they can live in groups and the captive bred ones don't have issues eating.

[mcarroll]

3 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Breeding peppermint shrimp would be an interesting experiment though!

It pre-dates reefing in terms of. saltwater hobbies.  👍

 

3 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Is it? I've always cut them with scissors and then glueing them to a piece of rock. I guess I'll have to look into it!

In general they're too slimy for glue...I guess "your mileage may vary" 😉 ...folks seem to use rubber bands and toothpicks a lot. 

 

3 hours ago, Llorgon said:

In my 25g I had the opposite problem of nutrients being 5-10 nitrate and around 0.1 phosphate. That's where the euphyllia would do their 1 head to 3 to 1 to 5+ then dead.

Those are pretty good numbers, BUT....if you saw them as a "problem" and were doing things to get "low nutrients", then THAT could've been the problem.

 

3 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I'll check out barnacle blennies. I was thinking 2-3 rainfords gobies. It sounds like they can live in groups and the captive bred ones don't have issues eating.

I always thought those were interesting looking, but they never eat....as you alluded.  

 

I haven't seen a captive bred one yet....would be amazing to see one eat in person.