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Cultivated Reef

Adventures in keeping a SPS reef


Llorgon

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5 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Now for my very unscientific approach. I removed all the cyano from the algae on the centre rock of the 75g, took some scissors and cut it down as close to the rock as I could. Which left it at around the same length as the back wall of the 25g pictured above. I then took the snail and placed it directly on the small patch of algae. That was last night, this morning the snail is still on the rock, but it never ate any of the algae. Again, could be lots of reasons why, but I have never seen any snails/crabs in the 75g make any sort of visible dent in any of the algae. The urchin I tried did make a small patch clear then died.

Sounds like you have your first "volunteer patch" for a new peroxide spot treatment.  🙂 

 

FYI, in lab tests cyano was much more susceptible to peroxide than green algae was.

 

5 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Either way, another pest I am losing to...

Dang.   We never benefit from "letting them be"...

 

Aiptasia X them and BE GONE WITH THEM. 😉   Seriously, aiptasia are easy targets as long as they don't get out of control – which means into every crevice where you can't get to them.

 

Knock em out easy while you still can!

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On 5/26/2023 at 9:34 PM, mcarroll said:

Sounds like you have your first "volunteer patch" for a new peroxide spot treatment.  🙂 

I will give that a try tomorrow night and see how it goes. I can't seem to find anything other than 3% locally, but I can order food grade peroxide online.

On 5/26/2023 at 9:34 PM, mcarroll said:

 

FYI, in lab tests cyano was much more susceptible to peroxide than green algae was.

 

Dang.   We never benefit from "letting them be"...

Ya, that was my bad. They were very unhappy looking and would die back on their own for a long time. 

On 5/26/2023 at 9:34 PM, mcarroll said:

 

Aiptasia X them and BE GONE WITH THEM. 😉   Seriously, aiptasia are easy targets as long as they don't get out of control – which means into every crevice where you can't get to them.

 

Knock em out easy while you still can!

I did a round of aiptasia X yesterday morning. I can see most of them are unaffected...

 

Anyways, did a water change yesterday morning, sucked up as much algae and cyano as I could. Then left to visit my parents. I came back this afternoon to mostly all the cyano being back and the algae I removed from the acans once again smothering them... In a day. And to top it off, the long nose hawkfish managed to jump through the egg crate and was dried up on top of the tank...

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17 hours ago, Llorgon said:

They were very unhappy looking and would die back on their own for a long time. 

That's actually pretty strange.....not sure I've ever heard of aiptasia doing that.  🤔

 

17 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I can see most of them are unaffected...

If you are still getting your technique down, then be patient with your progress.

 

Once you get the method of hitting then down pat, it's practically bulletproof.  

 

Make sure you watch some YouTubes.....Red Sea's vid is slightly idealized, but clearly gives you the basic method:

 

17 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I came back this afternoon to mostly all the cyano being back and the algae I removed from the acans once again smothering them... In a day.

 Cyano can definitely grow (and recede) fast.  I'm a little surprised green algae would rebound that quickly....but it's a good datapoint.

 

Obviously continue manual algae removal.   (You said you were siphoning algae out.  Are you also getting in the tank with your fingers to pluck it down to rock level very often?  Those are the only places that snails are going to be able to hold down for you.)

 

When is the next CUC supplement arriving?    

 

It's worth saying (or repeating) that a good rule of thumb is "up to" 2 Turbo snails per gallon.   You're still nowhere near that yet (correct me if I'm wrong).   Seems like it might be time to close that gap to a more significant degree.   Seems like somewhere north of 1 Turbo per gallon would be a good target.

 

If you're going to commence with the peroxide plan, then IMO it will be useful to have a SMALL amount of hermit crabs to perform aggressive cleanup of dying algae.  (Can't remember what your hermit population has been.)

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50 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

That's actually pretty strange.....not sure I've ever heard of aiptasia doing that.  🤔

Ya, when all the corals were dying a whole bunch of aiptasia died off with them. Like in that first week when the tank went from no algae to whatever this stuff is, they all died off. Up until a couple months ago any that were in the tank where very shrivelled an unhappy. Now they look normal and have started to grow

50 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

If you are still getting your technique down, then be patient with your progress.

 

Once you get the method of hitting then down pat, it's practically bulletproof.  

 

Make sure you watch some YouTubes.....Red Sea's vid is slightly idealized, but clearly gives you the basic method:

Hmm I have been doing that, at least as best I can. I will do another round tonight.

50 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 Cyano can definitely grow (and recede) fast.  I'm a little surprised green algae would rebound that quickly....but it's a good datapoint.

 

Obviously continue manual algae removal.   (You said you were siphoning algae out.  Are you also getting in the tank with your fingers to pluck it down to rock level very often?  Those are the only places that snails are going to be able to hold down for you.)

Ya, I'm not surprised by cyano coming back, but whatever this algae is just keeps coming. Manual removal is when I have time. I try and do it nightly when I can. I get about a cup out of the stuff at a time.

50 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

When is the next CUC supplement arriving?    

 

It's worth saying (or repeating) that a good rule of thumb is "up to" 2 Turbo snails per gallon.   You're still nowhere near that yet (correct me if I'm wrong).   Seems like it might be time to close that gap to a more significant degree.   Seems like somewhere north of 1 Turbo per gallon would be a good target.

No plans on more cuc yet. They all only seem to stay on the glass except the one snail. No matter how many times I have moved them. Anytime I add more, it mostly just helps the glass stay a bit cleaner, but that's it. Even the snail that has been staying on the one middle rock, hasn't kept the algae from growing back. I know I need more, but with the exception of ceriths, nothing lasts long. Turbo snails haven't lasted more than a week. I think I've tried about 7 now.

50 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

If you're going to commence with the peroxide plan, then IMO it will be useful to have a SMALL amount of hermit crabs to perform aggressive cleanup of dying algae.  (Can't remember what your hermit population has been.)

I have a few hermits, I haven't counted in awhile. I would say maybe 5?

 

Another thing I have noticed is I still cannot get coraline to grow on the rocks. If I leave the glass for a week, I have specs of it everywhere, but the rocks has nothing.

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17 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Ya, when all the corals were dying a whole bunch of aiptasia died off with them. Like in that first week when the tank went from no algae to whatever this stuff is, they all died off. Up until a couple months ago any that were in the tank where very shrivelled an unhappy. Now they look normal and have started to grow

That's weird!!  Wondering if anyone else agrees?

 

To me that almost sounds like a chemical exposure or something....like something metallic fell into the tank and corroded.  🤔

 

Something.  Hm.

 

17 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Another thing I have noticed is I still cannot get coraline to grow on the rocks. If I leave the glass for a week, I have specs of it everywhere, but the rocks has nothing.

It seems to grow better on the undersides of rocks for me than on top of the rocks....I think the light levels may be too high on the rocks in most areas of our tanks.  The side glass is off-axis from the lights which reduces intensity...so that's probably favorable to coralline.

 

17 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Here is some photos of the algae under a microscope. Not great pictures, but the best I could do.

Nice work!!

 

http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Chlorophyceae/siphonous_greens/Bryopsidales/DERBESIA/Derbesia_key.htm

 

Back out a mag level or two and see if your stuff matches the microscope shot there.  The form is variable to a degree as the text points out.

 

Looks like you have a nice collection of other microbes in the pic too.  👍

 

Another revisit:  Maybe think about adding a UV and/or micron filter to mostly eliminate further spreading?  

 

Manual removal+snails can get there too, but this should make the overall process go faster, especially since you can only get into the tank to hit the algae as often as you can.  

 

It won't make the manual removal of large algae any faster tho....should just make it less and a less of a task over time.  Patches you clean down to the rock shouldn't come back...or MUCH more slowly if they do.  (Again, the tank still need adequate herbivore coverage to complete the equation.)

 

It also won't make clearing the green algae out of those coral colonies any easier.  I think I've mentioned that I didn't have good luck with the coral that I couldn't get the hair algae out of.....ultimately lost a volleyball-sized birdsnest colony to it.  Anyway, fragging is another option for corals in that shape.  Does your LFS do fragging?  It's a severe option that's not without some risk, but the chunks you're left with can get a much more thorough cleaning than you're able to do now.

 

P.S.   Does the rock you used in this tank have an interesting story in any way?  Was it dead or alive, clean or algae covered, etc, when you got it?

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48 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

That's weird!!  Wondering if anyone else agrees?

 

To me that almost sounds like a chemical exposure or something....like something metallic fell into the tank and corroded.  🤔

 

Something.  Hm.

I thought it was weird. In my experience aiptasia never go away. I did a few ICP tests and no metals came back, checked all the equipment as well. Even replaced the heaters just in case.

48 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

It seems to grow better on the undersides of rocks for me than on top of the rocks....I think the light levels may be too high on the rocks in most areas of our tanks.  The side glass is off-axis from the lights which reduces intensity...so that's probably favorable to coralline.

Interesting. Maybe I need to lower my lighting. I don't really have much left for SPS anyways...

48 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

Nice work!!

 

http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Chlorophyceae/siphonous_greens/Bryopsidales/DERBESIA/Derbesia_key.htm

 

Back out a mag level or two and see if your stuff matches the microscope shot there.  The form is variable to a degree as the text points out.

 

Looks like you have a nice collection of other microbes in the pic too.  👍

 

Another revisit:  Maybe think about adding a UV and/or micron filter to mostly eliminate further spreading?  

I never did find the space for UV. Under the tank is crowded enough. I could do micron filter. Any recommendations for that? I have been using filter floss that gets changed every day to 2 days.

48 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

Manual removal+snails can get there too, but this should make the overall process go faster, especially since you can only get into the tank to hit the algae as often as you can.  

 

It won't make the manual removal of large algae any faster tho....should just make it less and a less of a task over time.  Patches you clean down to the rock shouldn't come back...or MUCH more slowly if they do.  (Again, the tank still need adequate herbivore coverage to complete the equation.)

 

It also won't make clearing the green algae out of those coral colonies any easier.  I think I've mentioned that I didn't have good luck with the coral that I couldn't get the hair algae out of.....ultimately lost a volleyball-sized birdsnest colony to it.  Anyway, fragging is another option for corals in that shape.  Does your LFS do fragging?  It's a severe option that's not without some risk, but the chunks you're left with can get a much more thorough cleaning than you're able to do now.

Not sure if any of the LFS do fragging. I will have to ask. I figured I would take out the acans and the space invaders and do some peroxide scrubbing on them. But I agree, when algae takes over them I haven't had good luck either...

48 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

P.S.   Does the rock you used in this tank have an interesting story in any way?  Was it dead or alive, clean or algae covered, etc, when you got it?

Now that you mention this, this tank has had 3 iterations.
1. Powerhead melted and killed everything in the tank - drained all water, new sand, restart
2. Dinos which ended with a lot of algae similar to this where nothing would eat it. All inverts and corals died, only fish survived. Broke the tank down to move.
3. This version of the tank. The tank had been empty for a year before that. New sand and rock except one rock from my 25g that had a similar algae, but had been sitting outside for a year.

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4 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I thought it was weird. In my experience aiptasia never go away. I did a few ICP tests and no metals came back, checked all the equipment as well. Even replaced the heaters just in case.

 

I can't think of a real theory as to what happened to the rock, but at this point it might seem a bit cursed.  😆😬

 

4 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Interesting. Maybe I need to lower my lighting. I don't really have much left for SPS anyways...

If you had them turned up for "SPS" then yeah maybe.  A light meter would erase those questions.  (free lux meter app to start; handheld lux meter for $15 for the long run, at min.  Highly recommended.)

 

4 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I never did find the space for UV. Under the tank is crowded enough. I could do micron filter. Any recommendations for that? I have been using filter floss that gets changed every day to 2 days.

I would recommend running both (or either one) right in the display tank.  Keep in mind that is should be temporary.

 

Marineland's Polishing Filter is a solid choice for small needs like this.   (I use two when I have a larger tank to use them on.)

 

I think one of the bigger Coralife or Green Killing Machine UV filters would work.  (It's a bigger size tank, right? 🤔)

 

4 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Now that you mention this, this tank has had 3 iterations.
1. Powerhead melted and killed everything in the tank - drained all water, new sand, restart
2. Dinos which ended with a lot of algae similar to this where nothing would eat it. All inverts and corals died, only fish survived. Broke the tank down to move.
3. This version of the tank. The tank had been empty for a year before that. New sand and rock except one rock from my 25g that had a similar algae, but had been sitting outside for a year.

So the rock in this tank is all new rock and sand except for one rock?

 

What was't the "all new" rock's origin?

 

(Did I get that all right?)

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1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

 

I can't think of a real theory as to what happened to the rock, but at this point it might seem a bit cursed.  😆😬

Honestly it seems like this tank is cursed. Nothing seems to go right with it.

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

 

If you had them turned up for "SPS" then yeah maybe.  A light meter would erase those questions.  (free lux meter app to start; handheld lux meter for $15 for the long run, at min.  Highly recommended.)

I believe these are the lux readings from the seneye I took way back.PXL_20221111_184503674.thumb.jpg.e702350e663aebfc27305c44501ab38f.jpg

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

 

I would recommend running both (or either one) right in the display tank.  Keep in mind that is should be temporary.

 

Marineland's Polishing Filter is a solid choice for small needs like this.   (I use two when I have a larger tank to use them on.)

 

I think one of the bigger Coralife or Green Killing Machine UV filters would work.  (It's a bigger size tank, right? 🤔)

It's a 75g, I had a green killing machine for Dinos at one point, maybe I still have it. I can order the polishing filter and see how that goes.

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

 

So the rock in this tank is all new rock and sand except for one rock?

 

What was't the "all new" rock's origin?

 

(Did I get that all right?)

Rock in this tank is dry rock from the LFS. Ordered I think 50lbs. And one rock that was previously in my 25g but I removed it because it was covered in algae, it then sat outside for a year before it went into this tank.

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2 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I believe these are the lux readings from the seneye I took way back.

Generally around 100 PAR or better....should be fine if this is the same config you're running now.  👍

 

2 hours ago, Llorgon said:

It's a 75g, I had a green killing machine for Dinos at one point, maybe I still have it. I can order the polishing filter and see how that goes.

The UV bulb usually has a year of good use.  (It should be specific on the box or in the instructions.  Could be from 6 months to 2 years.)

 

If you think you had it in service for a whole year, then you'll wanna pick up a new bulb for this deployment.

 

2 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Rock in this tank is dry rock from the LFS. Ordered I think 50lbs. And one rock that was previously in my 25g but I removed it because it was covered in algae, it then sat outside for a year before it went into this tank.

Hm.  Any chance you think switching to actual live rock makes sense?

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19 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Generally around 100 PAR or better....should be fine if this is the same config you're running now.  👍

No change in settings since those readings were taken. I did shorten the photo period though by about 1.5hrs.

19 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

The UV bulb usually has a year of good use.  (It should be specific on the box or in the instructions.  Could be from 6 months to 2 years.)

 

If you think you had it in service for a whole year, then you'll wanna pick up a new bulb for this deployment.

I think I used it for about 6 months. I can't seem to find it though...

19 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

Hm.  Any chance you think switching to actual live rock makes sense?

Actual live rock would be great, but it's not something you can easily come by here in Canada. You can't seem to get actual ocean live rock here. One LFS sells liverock they have had in their system, but they ship it with wet newspaper on it, not sure how much good that would do.

I got a couple smaller pieces from a LFS in town, but they only sold a couple pieces to me because they wanted to get rid of the kenya tree's on it.

 

I have been keeping my eye out on the local forums, but nothing has come up that wasn't already covered in algae from a tank shut down.

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Post algae cleaning tank pics. If the house wasn't for sale, it would definitely be a good time to stock up on coral to fill some space.

 

The GSP is still not colouring back up. Polyps are out, but the green just isn't coming back.

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13 hours ago, Llorgon said:

Actual live rock would be great, but it's not something you can easily come by here in Canada. You can't seem to get actual ocean live rock here. One LFS sells liverock they have had in their system, but they ship it with wet newspaper on it, not sure how much good that would do.

That's how the bulk of live rock has always been shipped.  (The insides of the rock are the refugium that never dries out.)  👍

 

If the store is local, they wouldn't be shipping to you. (Would they??) Can you go see the rock before buying?  (Highly recommended.)

 

This would be a big change so not to be considered lightly.  But I know I'd be seriously considering it.

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8 hours ago, Llorgon said:

The GSP is still not colouring back up. Polyps are out, but the green just isn't coming back.

In the short term, I bet leather corals would do better in there.  (Just avoid the weedy ones.)  

 

The one (?) you have looks pretty nice.  🙂 

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7 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That's how the bulk of live rock has always been shipped.  (The insides of the rock are the refugium that never dries out.)  👍

 

If the store is local, they wouldn't be shipping to you. (Would they??) Can you go see the rock before buying?  (Highly recommended.)

 

This would be a big change so not to be considered lightly.  But I know I'd be seriously considering it.

It's local ish. About 4hrs drive, but I order most of my stuff from them since it's the biggest store closest to me. I can request certain size rocks, but that's about it.

7 hours ago, mcarroll said:

In the short term, I bet leather corals would do better in there.  (Just avoid the weedy ones.)  

 

The one (?) you have looks pretty nice.  🙂 

The toadstool I have in there is doing really well. I wouldn't mind some different coloured ones. And ya, the pulsing xenia is quickly spreading...

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9 hours ago, Llorgon said:

It's local ish. About 4hrs drive, but I order most of my stuff from them since it's the biggest store closest to me. I can request certain size rocks, but that's about it.

The toadstool I have in there is doing really well. I wouldn't mind some different coloured ones. And ya, the pulsing xenia is quickly spreading...

Isn't that a Cabbage Leather or something smack on top of the rocks?   (Looks great.)

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12 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Isn't that a Cabbage Leather or something smack on top of the rocks?   (Looks great.)

oh yes! Sorry, thought you meant the toadstool for some reason. Yes, it's doing pretty well. I could definitely add more.

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6 hours ago, Llorgon said:

oh yes! Sorry, thought you meant the toadstool for some reason. Yes, it's doing pretty well. I could definitely add more.

All of the leathers would be great!  ('cept the weedy ones).

 

I was just singling out the cabbage cuz it was looking so great but not getting a callout like the Toadstool got. 😉😉 

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We officially have a moving date of June 24th. I am having some aquarium maintenance people come in and move this tank for me on the 28th.

 

After the move, I can start looking into corals again and getting some more fish. I might get a file fish to hopefully eat the aiptasia and I would like to replace the long nose hawkfish that jumped the other weekend.

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mitten_reef
On 6/6/2023 at 1:48 PM, Llorgon said:

We officially have a moving date of June 24th. I am having some aquarium maintenance people come in and move this tank for me on the 28th.

 

After the move, I can start looking into corals again and getting some more fish. I might get a file fish to hopefully eat the aiptasia and I would like to replace the long nose hawkfish that jumped the other weekend.

my suggestion for the tank move, take this opportunity to reset the tank

  1. get a fresh bag of sand, or two or three when you set this thing back up.  Ditch the old sand, you'll be surprised how much crap is collected, no matter how well you maintained the sand. 
  2. unmount all existing corals from you rocks, put them on plugs or tiles.
  3. take the rocks out and powerwash any surface crap off of them. then dunk them in RODI bucket to get rid of tap water.  most bacteria will survive, as long as the rocks never dried out.      

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/8/2023 at 10:54 PM, mcarroll said:

Lid is a must for hawkfish.

 

Good luck with the move – stay chill!  🙂 

I have the eggcrate lid. I didn't think it was thin enough to make it through, but I guess I was wrong.

 

On 6/9/2023 at 10:09 AM, mitten_reef said:

my suggestion for the tank move, take this opportunity to reset the tank

  1. get a fresh bag of sand, or two or three when you set this thing back up.  Ditch the old sand, you'll be surprised how much crap is collected, no matter how well you maintained the sand. 
  2. unmount all existing corals from you rocks, put them on plugs or tiles.
  3. take the rocks out and powerwash any surface crap off of them. then dunk them in RODI bucket to get rid of tap water.  most bacteria will survive, as long as the rocks never dried out.      

 

 

Those are good suggestions! I will most likely be replacing the sand. That alone might make a huge difference.

 

So to update on this fun process of house selling. The deal to buy our house fell through on financing on the last day, actually we gave them an extra day. So that's a bummer. We did get another offer on the weekend, but it's a subject to sale. So they have to sell their place, remove subjects then we remove subjects on our new place. Overall, I'm no longer holding out hope that we will be moving this year.

 

On the tank front, algae continues to grow, but not quite to the same extent. It feels like something is turning the corner on that front. I'm seeing coral growth in the 2 montiporas, forest fire and some of the acans. Although the algae is still really bothering them. The tank has been a bit neglected between house showings, packing(although that is on hold) and general chores and spring/summer vacations. It's been about 3 weeks without water change.... I finally got some time yesterday to remove algae and holy crap, anything I grabbed had at least one or more bristleworms in it. They are everywhere! I will probably have to look into some sort of population control for them.

 

I might get the same company that was going to do the move to come in and do an algae removal on the corals. I'm just not getting the time lately.

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On 6/19/2023 at 6:45 PM, Llorgon said:

I finally got some time yesterday to remove algae and holy crap, anything I grabbed had at least one or more bristleworms in it. They are everywhere! I will probably have to look into some sort of population control for them.

This increase in your "endemic" cleanup crew is a sign of die-off happening (or possible overfeeding).  

 

Worm populations scale (up and down) pretty rapidly in response to food supply.

 

If this is something new, then IMO there's a new food supply causing their population increase.  

 

Lots of algae die-off sounds hopeful, but seems likely as the main culprit.

 

Unless you think food you're adding is the culprit, IMO don't do anything to slow them down....just be happy they are doing their job as intended. 🙂🙂

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  • 4 months later...

So a bit of a long over due update...

 

We tried to sell our townhouse and buy a house this spring / summer. We almost sold our place twice... The first offer we had fell through on financing. Then then place we wanted to move to and had a subject to sale offer on got a subject free offer, so we lost that. We got a second offer on our place with a subject to sale on it. July 13 my wife was laid off then on the 15th we found out our place was going to sell, half hour after the call from the realtor I found out I was going to be laid off... So we collapsed all deals and here we are. 

 

It's now November and neither of us have jobs because the tech sector has gone to shit.

 

So after that fun spring/summer/fall, the tank was pretty neglected. Other than feeding the fish, I did nothing with the tank. I think I've done 2 water changes since June...

 

And honestly the tank isn't looking as bad as it has. Montipora and forest fire are growing, same with the toadstool and leather. The pulsing Xenia is slowly taking over. The space invaders looks to be recovering and even the gsp that hasn't grown is starting to turn green again.

 

Unfortunately the acans really took a hit. Between algae and aiptasia I have lost most of them.

 

To be honest, the tank has been more of a chore than a source of joy lately and I have been thinking of selling it all and leaving the hobby for awhile. I'm going to try and be more involved with the tank and try and clear out the aiptasia and make a final decision when I'm back working again.

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