30 Gallon Stocking

[Clown79]

39 minutes ago, jt8791 said:

Crap nitrates bottomed out, I had turned the fuge light intensity up last night not even thinking. That was dumb. Shut the light off for a few days anyways, will be throwing a bit of everything I have on dry food to bring it up. 

Now it has me questioning if it was dinos or diatoms, nitrates were steady at 5 but I ended up doing another 10 gallon water change yesterday which probably brought them too low. Hopefully the cuc is good and hungry

Phos levels are a main issue with dino's.

 

1 time over feeding won't necessarily cut it to raise nutrient levels.

 

If you are struggling with nutrients, maybe the size of waterchange is too much.

 

10g seems a lot.

 

I did 2.5g in a 25g

[jt8791]

Yeah I changed way too much water over the weekend so it's not surprising that they bottomed out, didn't even think of it when I turned the fuge light up. I might have to toss my chaeto and get a new batch when nitrates come back up. Bioload is gonna be really light until the blood orange clowns get some growth in.

 

Sad part is now I'm adjusting the furniture in my living room and seeing what size tank I could fit in here for a second tank, only room the landlord will allow tanks in so far. Thinking most likely a simple budget 20g long for a pair of ocellaris clownfish and a third fish I haven't decided on yet, maybe court jester goby. Probably go cheap with a fluval marine 3.0 being so shallow and see how rbta splits do. It should be enough par if I make the aquascape about 6" high and keep the outside 3" on each side open.

 

Was initially thinking of going with gsp but seems foolish when I will end up with extra rbta's eventually. Also was hoping to make room to fit a 33g long but don't think it will work in this room. I have yet to flood the place so maybe my landlord will cave and allow a tank in my bedroom someday.

 

 

 

[jt8791]

Threw out half the chaeto, debate if I should throw the other half out. I might have to shut the display light off too, at least until nitrates are detectable.

[jt8791]

Threw out the rest of the chaeto, debating if I’m going to need to add a 4th fish or go with a slow growing macro like red ogo. Doing a blackout for 3 days, put trash bags around the tank. Not even sure what would work for a 4th fish, would have to be bigger and probably more aggressive than the six line and clowns.

Slight downside to using ac110s as fuges, seems to turn into a detritus trap regardless of how it’s setup. Gotta start putting them on low flow during feeding time and see if that helps. Worst case pull all the rubble rock and break it up into smaller pieces.

[jt8791]

That might actually be the most logical option, add a coral beauty and start growing red ogo in the fuges to feed the cb. Might have to rehome it if it starts getting cramped, but I can’t think of any other options that would work. That would be super overstocked though, depending how big the clowns get.

It’s either that or start dosing nutrients and go through the never ending headache of chasing numbers but that just sounds aggravating. Feed fish x amount of times a day and change x amount of water at a certain interval, then just use the macro as food for the cb. Chaeto is good for pods and nutrient export but nothing eats it so unless I happen to be going to lfs when I harvest it goes in the trash. Seems like a waste

[Clown79]

Why are you blacking out the tank?

[DevilDuck]

After reading the last 2 pages. My opinion is its time to slow down.

Get your nitrates and phosphate back in detectable ranges by dosing. Then figure out your tank's natural consumption so you can tune your dosing or feedings.

 

 

[jt8791]

Yeah I tried changing too much at once and didn’t think to shut down my fuge light until I got back up to a reasonable bioload. Was having an issue with what I thought was diatoms, assumed nutrients bottoming out would sprout up dinos. Gave up on the blackout, seemed too stressful for the nems.

Went overboard on overfeeding and got a bit of a bloom but n and p are detectable now. I turned the display light intensity and photo period down for now, fuge light is still off but I tossed the chaeto anyways. Don’t think I even have a big enough bioload for chaeto, I couldn’t get hardly any growth which is why I tried turning the fuge light up. Didn’t have much luck growing reg ogo in the fuge before but might try that again

 

The pump I got for the uv sterilizer was too overpowered and honestly cheap junk but I wasn’t surprised for $12. Took the uv offline for now, was sending sand all over and half the time pushing air bubbles. Will feed very lightly, probably just frozen once a day and wait for this bloom to clear. Probably won’t even need the fuge anytime soon with this light bioload.

[jt8791]

Not sure on the coral beauty, hear some people have luck keeping them in a 30 but that would be a major overstock. Might just have to leave the fuge offline until the clowns get bigger. 7” of fish isn’t enough bioload for nems and macro in the fuge but hard to add a 4th knowing these 3 should hit a total of 15”.

 

Had initially planned to keep it just the clowns but don’t want to go through the headache of dosing nutrients and constantly chasing numbers. Probably wouldn’t even be an issue if it wasn’t for these two fuges. They work good somewhat, but I have to slightly overstock or dose nutrients to keep up with both of them.
 

Almost debate if upgrading the wave pumps and trashing the three filters would be the simplest bet, they seem to cause me more problems than they solve. Nevermind all three are detritus traps.

 

[Clown79]

There is no guarantee that adding fish will increase nutrients.

 

I had 2 clowns, a bangaii, midas blenny, and a stark damsel in my 25 lagoon.

 

I fed daily, some days twice a day and struggled to keep 2ppm nitrate. Thats with only 2.5g waterchanges.

 

I had to dose nitrates and phyto to keep both phos and nitrates in my tank. 

 

Thats no skimmer, no macro, no gfo, only floss and 2 tbsp of carbon. 

 

 

[jt8791]

Hmm yeah that is true. Thinking for the detritus build up, I question if the sponges from the ac110 are too pourous? Not sure how to spell it. The ac50 I could buy the prefilter sponge at Petco, think it’s a bit finer. Used those on the 1st tank with ac30 with rubble rock and didn’t get nearly as much detritus through the sponge.

 

I will have to let nutrients build back up for a while and then buy new chaeto. Could try red ogo but if I remember correctly that and sea lettuce didn’t work good in this setup. Start off slow with the light intensity, gotta remember my light is overkill for a refugium.

[jt8791]

Found some black sponges like the fluval evo prefilter sponge, should be able to do all 3 prefilters out of one sponge. Worst case I’ll get some fine filter socks to run over them as well.
 

Maybe 1mm with extras, run till flow slows down then throw another filter sock over to keep most the detritus from floating away when I shut the filter off. It’s quite a chore tear down those filters and scrub the rubble rock, already done that twice.

 

Would give me a chance to remove the aptasia nems under the filter basket.

[jt8791]

Filter sock might not be as simple as I thought but found some 180 micron filter bags that might do the trick if these sponges aren’t enough. Hoping to not have to tear down the filters to clean them every few months. Makes it hard to sustain a copepod population.

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, jt8791 said:

Found some black sponges like the fluval evo prefilter sponge, should be able to do all 3 prefilters out of one sponge. Worst case I’ll get some fine filter socks to run over them as well.
 

Maybe 1mm with extras, run till flow slows down then throw another filter sock over to keep most the detritus from floating away when I shut the filter off. It’s quite a chore tear down those filters and scrub the rubble rock, already done that twice.

 

Would give me a chance to remove the aptasia nems under the filter basket.

Why use sponges at all?

 

Most use just filter floss changed twice a week.

 

Nutrients is different than detritus. You don't want detritus.

[jt8791]

Yeah I keep getting loads of detritus in the rubble rock, trying these sponge but filter floss will be the next option. Also end up with detritus in the impeller, especially the ac50, the ac110s don't act up as often but I have to take the ac50 apart to clean the impeller every so often. Have used the foam filters from the ac110 for a while and everything goes right past it. No telling if these sponges will be any better, looks like the same sponge material the fluval prefilters are made of. $12 gets me enough to make 6 prefilters so I'll give it a shot, quick to swap out with two sets. If it doesn't work I'll try filter floss next.

 

Definitely not pushing another fish, will just quit changing water until I find the routine that works for this setup. The bloom is starting to clear up, saw the six line wrasse eat some frozen food today and the clownfish have been getting along, both in the same nem at the same time which is a first. Figure I'll let the nutrients build back up for a bit and then get some more chaeto and slowly turn the light back on, and figure out a water change schedule that works as well. Hard to get rid of the filters, if I can fix the detritus issue I'll be happy, really it's the only downfall.

 

I can't justify the money to buy hob fuges, could spend that money on new wave pumps but thinking I will hold off on that and quit playing the guessing game with api tests. If I'm gonna buy $300+ wave pumps I might as well buy hanna checkers first, probably do it right and buy the whole set. Seems to be the best route to go from most of what I read, researched other test kits and hanna seems better than trying to match colors. I really can't quite justify the price of hob fuges and have to look at the pump in the tank or possibly having to mod it to avoid flooding and attempt to relocate the pump.

[Clown79]

10 minutes ago, jt8791 said:

Yeah I keep getting loads of detritus in the rubble rock, trying these sponge but filter floss will be the next option. Also end up with detritus in the impeller, especially the ac50, the ac110s don't act up as often but I have to take the ac50 apart to clean the impeller every so often. Have used the foam filters from the ac110 for a while and everything goes right past it. No telling if these sponges will be any better, looks like the same sponge material the fluval prefilters are made of. $12 gets me enough to make 6 prefilters so I'll give it a shot, quick to swap out with two sets. If it doesn't work I'll try filter floss next.

 

Definitely not pushing another fish, will just quit changing water until I find the routine that works for this setup. The bloom is starting to clear up, saw the six line wrasse eat some frozen food today and the clownfish have been getting along, both in the same nem at the same time which is a first. Figure I'll let the nutrients build back up for a bit and then get some more chaeto and slowly turn the light back on, and figure out a water change schedule that works as well. Hard to get rid of the filters, if I can fix the detritus issue I'll be happy, really it's the only downfall.

 

I can't justify the money to buy hob fuges, could spend that money on new wave pumps but thinking I will hold off on that and quit playing the guessing game with api tests. If I'm gonna buy $300+ wave pumps I might as well buy hanna checkers first, probably do it right and buy the whole set. Seems to be the best route to go from most of what I read, researched other test kits and hanna seems better than trying to match colors. I really can't quite justify the price of hob fuges and have to look at the pump in the tank or possibly having to mod it to avoid flooding and attempt to relocate the pump.

Thats the issue with rock rubble. It should be placed in something that can be easily removed so detritus can be siphoned out. Like a basket or media bag. Media bag would need rinsing in waterchange water to remove detritus buildup.

 

Alot of ppl don't really recommend rock rubble for this reason

 

When i ran my hob it was just carbon and filter floss. With every waterchange i used a turkey baster to suck out the detritus. 

 

Sponges will require weekly washes and even then they don't get clean enough. 

[jt8791]

Actually the rubble wasn’t the issue, the impellers and filter basket were plugged with detritus. Will have to see if the new sponges work better, had to trim them down. Was cutting flow right off so I had to tear the filters down and give them a good cleaning.

Sad part was I lost a good chunk of what I think was mysid shrimp in the process. Also tried to break whatever rubble pieces I could into smaller pieces. So filter floss wouldn’t be very effective unless I put it over the filter intakes. Wouldn’t have that big mysid shrimp or pod population without the rubble, so I couldn’t see going without it. 
 

I’m not a fan of running carbon or any chemicals if I can avoid it. Plus running carbon and trying to grow macroalgae don’t work together very well. With a good prefilter sponge or worst case filter floss on the intake I shouldn’t end up with this issue again.

My last tank only had 2 ac30s with rubble rock and with the fluval evo prefilters I hardly had any detritus buildup. I typically rinse my prefilter sponges every couple days anyways.

 

Gonna switch from chaeto to red gracilaria and sea lettuce, seems more fitting to grow food for the urchins. Probably gonna go for the 4th fish, having a heck of a timing even getting nitrates to 5 without macro algae with 3 fish, and that was with massive overfeeding. 
 

I might have to rehome it in a few years but the only fish I can think of that would work with these three would be a coral beauty angel. Probably just toss a handful of each macro in the tank every week but also have a few packages of dried seaweed to use up.

 

Talked to the guys from reefbreeders and apparently my light intensity is up way too high. Slowly bringing it down, had read they like sps lighting so I went 80% blues and violet and 20% white green and red. Brought it down to 60 and 15 so far, guess they run 45 and 15 on a 24” deep tank so I might even have to go down to 30 and 10.

[Tired]

You should sell the chaeto once you take it out. Seems to be a shortage of it lately, so big bags of chaeto shipped by cheap 2-3 day shipping would sell pretty fast. Particularly with mysids involved. 

 

See if you can find a rooster waspfish. Pretty big eaters for their size, but not aggressive, and they don't tend to be bothered by anything else. Venomous, but not particularly dangerous to humans. Sorta like a miniature scorpionfish crossed with a clown goby. 

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, jt8791 said:

Actually the rubble wasn’t the issue, the impellers and filter basket were plugged with detritus. Will have to see if the new sponges work better, had to trim them down. Was cutting flow right off so I had to tear the filters down and give them a good cleaning.

Sad part was I lost a good chunk of what I think was mysid shrimp in the process. Also tried to break whatever rubble pieces I could into smaller pieces. So filter floss wouldn’t be very effective unless I put it over the filter intakes. Wouldn’t have that big mysid shrimp or pod population without the rubble, so I couldn’t see going without it. 
 

I’m not a fan of running carbon or any chemicals if I can avoid it. Plus running carbon and trying to grow macroalgae don’t work together very well. With a good prefilter sponge or worst case filter floss on the intake I shouldn’t end up with this issue again.

My last tank only had 2 ac30s with rubble rock and with the fluval evo prefilters I hardly had any detritus buildup. I typically rinse my prefilter sponges every couple days anyways.

 

Gonna switch from chaeto to red gracilaria and sea lettuce, seems more fitting to grow food for the urchins. Probably gonna go for the 4th fish, having a heck of a timing even getting nitrates to 5 without macro algae with 3 fish, and that was with massive overfeeding. 
 

I might have to rehome it in a few years but the only fish I can think of that would work with these three would be a coral beauty angel. Probably just toss a handful of each macro in the tank every week but also have a few packages of dried seaweed to use up.

 

Talked to the guys from reefbreeders and apparently my light intensity is up way too high. Slowly bringing it down, had read they like sps lighting so I went 80% blues and violet and 20% white green and red. Brought it down to 60 and 15 so far, guess they run 45 and 15 on a 24” deep tank so I might even have to go down to 30 and 10.

Its completely normal to get detritus in filters, even sumps get it.

 

Thats why you have to clean them.

 

My hob was cleaned every 2-3 months, my back chambers in my aio were vacuumed every month.

 

The detritus comes from within the tank, its the particles you don't see. 

[jt8791]

 

52 minutes ago, Tired said:

You should sell the chaeto once you take it out. Seems to be a shortage of it lately, so big bags of chaeto shipped by cheap 2-3 day shipping would sell pretty fast. Particularly with mysids involved. 

 

See if you can find a rooster waspfish. Pretty big eaters for their size, but not aggressive, and they don't tend to be bothered by anything else. Venomous, but not particularly dangerous to humans. Sorta like a miniature scorpionfish crossed with a clown goby. 

That’s cool looking, not seeing them available anywhere though. Not sure either lfs I use would be able to get them.
 

Yeah i should have taken that last batch of chaeto to the lfs, it was massive but filthy, detritus, cyano hair algae who knows what else in it and I pulled it at night. This wasn’t much, just shy of 4 cups.
 

Wasn’t worth the drive to trade it in. My usual lfs is 40 minutes away with about $5 in tolls, I’ve gotta get easy pass at some point. Another lfs 15-20 minutes away but never seen them carry macroalgae.

 

yeah I’m sure I will have to deep clean the filters from time to time but makes it difficult to maintain a pod population so hoping prefilters will keep it as clean as possible in the meantime so I don’t have to do it as often.

[Tired]

Yeah, that's the downside to waspfish. Not common to find for sale. 

 

Remind me what fish you have? None of the ones listed in your first post are super aggressive, but I don't much feel like reading the whole thread to see if you've had any changes. 

[jt8791]

Pair of blood orange clowns and a six line wrasse 

 

I changed up my stocking, was gonna do just the clowns but quickly ran out of nutrients. Clowns are only about 2” right now 6 line is 2.5-3

[jt8791]

Ha I don’t blame you for not wanting to read the whole thing, this build went in circles. 

[Tired]

You could do a watchman goby and pistol shrimp. Fun to watch, and they keep to themselves under the rocks, so nothing will hassle them. You could also add a clown goby. They perch on rocks, and have a nasty-tasting slime coat that protects them from bullies. Because they perch, the watchman won't care about one. 

[jt8791]

I just pulled a watchman goby and pistol shrimp a few weeks ago, all set with doing that again. I’m not sure I want to add a small peaceful goby with these three, feel like that would be asking for trouble. Also not a big fan of clown gobies anyways, especially not for this tank. Won’t be any rocks to perch once the nems fill in also.
 

Probably not a lot of options I could add that would work, either way it would probably have to be bigger than the clowns and at least close to the same size as the wrasse. Female clown is a bully, wrasse is mellow but doubt that will last if I add a fish smaller than him, especially a peaceful one. She tolerates the wrasse, terrorizes the male clown.