Foam?! And Diagoms Already?? Help lol

[1891Bro]

On 9/21/2019 at 3:21 PM, Clown79 said:

Not sure. I had osteoporosis in my tank, the same dino strain that causes red tide, it never smelled.

My mom has osteoporosis. Brittle bones 🦴! Lol. 

[j.falk]

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Can you post a full tank photo as well as a closeup of the algae in question?  It usually helps if the pumps are off and the white lights are on, or you use a flash.

 

Chrysophytes are known to foam up in the wild, but I've never seen that in a tank.

My wife just called...she took some of my water to her lab and looked at it under a microscope.  She saw something that looked like dinos (that were not moving), cyano, and some red things that were moving all over the place (I'm assuming copepods).  I'm going to stop in to see for myself after dropping my stepson off at school.  I'm tired of playing the guessing game with whatever this is...I want this issue resolved.

 

[j.falk]

Well fudge...I definitely have Osteoporosis dinos.  * sigh *

 

They looked just like this:

 

 

[mcarroll]

Still not too sure on the reason for the foaming, unless you saw something like this (Chrysophytes) in your sample:

Don't think you'd see them moving though.  If not this, then I think the foaming is coincidental to the dino's...unrelated just also present.

 

Maybe this from my Dino thread on R2R for the fast-movers you saw?  Another dino, Oxyrrhis spp., that eats some harmful dino's:

Quote

 

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

@Beuchat this Ostreopsis cells look HUGE compared to the Oxy's...seems like they should be about double the Oxy's size......did you get a positive ID on which Ostreopsis? Harmful Marine Dinoflagellates indicates that O. mascarenensis is remarkable in the genus for it's size – >130µm...

mcarroll 

 

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

...but more Ostreopsis and Prorocentrum cells. Their sizes are typical. Here is clear video from Gregg Mendez (user Pants - site: algaeid.com) of Oxyrrhis Marina ingesting some small cell amphidinium. The mode of feeding is engulfing the entire cell. It spins around the cell to force it into...

taricha

 

 

 

 

 

On 9/21/2019 at 11:20 AM, j.falk said:

When I was in Florida last year during the red tide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide#List_of_common_red_tide_genera

 

So not "commonly" Ostreopsis (and red tide is sort of a generic term)....but there's another more general term for these blooms where Ostreopsis fits in "commonly":  Harmful Algae Bloom 

 

There are a few kinds of HAB's.  The coolest has to be the luminescent blooms.  Still harmful, but magical.  (Why can't we get THESE dino's instead?? LOL)

 

 

On 9/20/2019 at 6:58 PM, j.falk said:

I'm trying to figure out what might be causing it?  Since I noticed the foam, I've changed 75% of the water daily 6 days in a row

My guess it that nitrates or phosphates or both are non-existent and the water changes just hit that nail on the head at 75% force 6 times in a row.  Dino-forge!

 

If you dose phosphates (and maybe nitrates too since there's nothing to feed yet) you can probably get things going the right direction.  Just don't let things go longer than necessary before you dose.

 

(If you didn't start with live rock, consider starting over with live.  Simpler than fixing this AND better.  Should be cheaper in the long run too.  Even mail-order aquaculture rock.)

[mcarroll]

Sorry @FrancineJ for hijacking....may be useful to your situation too, not sure.  🙂

 

 

@j.falkDo you have a thread on this tank yet?

[FrancineJ]

Haha it’s all good @mcarroll

[FrancineJ]

Just to let everyone know... my foam just went away on its own after a couple weeks... I didn’t change anything it just wasn’t there and hasn’t come back lol

 

[j.falk]

2 hours ago, FrancineJ said:

Just to let everyone know... my foam just went away on its own after a couple weeks... I didn’t change anything it just wasn’t there and hasn’t come back lol

 

Mine finally went away as well after taking out some of the Marco rock and adding new pieces of live rock.

[FrancineJ]

5 hours ago, j.falk said:

Mine finally went away as well after taking out some of the Marco rock and adding new pieces of live rock.

That’s great... I never figured out what caused mine but I’m glad it’s gone lol 

maybe it has something to do with dry rock because I used Caribsea LifeRocks in that tank...

[j.falk]

1 hour ago, FrancineJ said:

That’s great... I never figured out what caused mine but I’m glad it’s gone lol 

maybe it has something to do with dry rock because I used Caribsea LifeRocks in that tank...

I'm almost wondering if dry rock contains dormant dinos somehow?

[FrancineJ]

7 minutes ago, j.falk said:

I'm almost wondering if dry rock contains dormant dinos somehow?

It does seem odd that we both started with dry rock... different type but still... it does seem to have some kind of connection 🤔

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, j.falk said:

I'm almost wondering if dry rock contains dormant dinos somehow?

Good question!

 

It's nothing to do with dormancy.

 

Dino's are a normal part of sea life, like coral.

 

Folks invite dino blooms the same way as any algae bloom – by the way they run the tank.

 

Hobby mythology regarding algae and nutrients figures in strongly.

 

Dead rock is one key ingredient though.  

 

Thinking "clean rock" is somehow "good" is another.

 

Thinking "no nutrients" is somehow "good" is another.

 

Thinking that miracle cures for algae exist is a big one.

 

Thinking that algae is bad is another big one.

 

Thinking nutrient levels have something to do with causing algae blooms is another.

 

Could go on (a lot) but it's a pretty considerable list already.

 

Sounds pessimistic but everything that newbs learn these days (where does it come from, facebook?!?!) seems to be more or less completely wrong.  Often the exact opposite of what's really true.

 

Follow all those myths to their logical conclusion and it's hard to imagine an outcome other than pest-algae hell...which is dino's.

 

Even the oldest, most out of date reefing book wouldn't lead newbs so far out of bounds.

 

Wait, no.  Dead rock is good as long as you bleach it first.  A video says so.

[FrancineJ]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Good question!

 

It's nothing to do with dormancy.

 

Dino's are a normal part of sea life, like coral.

 

Folks invite dino blooms the same way as any algae bloom – by the way they run the tank.

 

Hobby mythology regarding algae and nutrients figures in strongly.

 

Dead rock is one key ingredient though.  

 

Thinking "clean rock" is somehow "good" is another.

 

Thinking "no nutrients" is somehow "good" is another.

 

Thinking that miracle cures for algae exist is a big one.

 

Thinking that algae is bad is another big one.

 

Thinking nutrient levels have something to do with causing algae blooms is another.

 

Could go on (a lot) but it's a pretty considerable list already.

 

Sounds pessimistic but everything that newbs learn these days (where does it come from, facebook?!?!) seems to be more or less completely wrong.  Often the exact opposite of what's really true.

 

Follow all those myths to their logical conclusion and it's hard to imagine an outcome other than pest-algae hell...which is dino's.

 

Even the oldest, most out of date reefing book wouldn't lead newbs so far out of bounds.

 

Wait, no.  Dead rock is good as long as you bleach it first.  A video says so.

I was referring more to the foaming part... not the Dino’s..... I have a couple of tanks... big and small and I just never had that foam before lol

[Clown79]

12 hours ago, j.falk said:

I'm almost wondering if dry rock contains dormant dinos somehow?

All tanks have dino's present in them, all the time.they come out of dormancy when the conditions are right and then they thrive.

 

They are part of the ecosystem.

[Clown79]

On 9/27/2019 at 7:27 AM, j.falk said:

My wife just called...she took some of my water to her lab and looked at it under a microscope.  She saw something that looked like dinos (that were not moving), cyano, and some red things that were moving all over the place (I'm assuming copepods).  I'm going to stop in to see for myself after dropping my stepson off at school.  I'm tired of playing the guessing game with whatever this is...I want this issue resolved.

 

It may not be osteo then. Osteo moves constantly and rapidly.

[FrancineJ]

20 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

All tanks have dino's present in them, all the time.they come out of dormancy when the conditions are right and then they thrive.

 

They are part of the ecosystem.

Ya I am aware of that part but it was so so soon into my cycle... I don’t remember now because this post is so old lol 

 

but the foam part was a mystery to me and I had never experienced it before 

[mcarroll]

Dino's not moving might be non-blooming dino's....which is what should happen when nutrient levels are raised.  (Not sure anyone has photographed them in this state yet, so yours might be a first if you can confirm the same "behavior" in other samples from your tank.

 

Or they might be dead dino's.

 

Non-blooming (as far as I know.....much less has been written on their non-blooming behavior) dino's are known for being epiphytes, which don't move, they're anchored to a larger algae usually.

[Clown79]

16 minutes ago, FrancineJ said:

Ya I am aware of that part but it was so so soon into my cycle... I don’t remember now because this post is so old lol 

 

but the foam part was a mystery to me and I had never experienced it before 

I got the bubbles when using an hob, then they just disappeared

[FrancineJ]

Now we are having issues with a major bubble algae problem... I don’t know what to do as I don’t want to add a couple emerald crabs as they are hit and miss and with our luck will eat the corals but it’s everywhere!! 😥

[Clown79]

3 minutes ago, FrancineJ said:

Now we are having issues with a major bubble algae problem... I don’t know what to do as I don’t want to add a couple emerald crabs as they are hit and miss and with our luck will eat the corals but it’s everywhere!! 😥

I just pick them out

[FrancineJ]

Just now, Clown79 said:

I just pick them out

That’s what we are going to try... maybe using some tweezers or a blade to get them off without popping them....

 

someone else said they used Vibrant (the cleaner stuff that’s supposed to get rid of algae) but he mentions they don’t list bubble algae but it has worked for him....

 

I have some already so I might try using both methods... Manual removal and the vibrant and hope for the best! 
 

it’s so bad one of my big Trochus snails was covered in it lol 😂 I had to pull the poor guy out and clear him off lol

[mcarroll]

16 minutes ago, FrancineJ said:

Now we are having issues with a major bubble algae problem... I don’t know what to do as I don’t want to add a couple emerald crabs as they are hit and miss and with our luck will eat the corals but it’s everywhere!! 😥

Please post a pic.  "Major" is a kind of a relative term.  😉 

 

Like Clown said, pick them out if you can't/won't get a CUC to do it. 

 

You're right that crabs will be hit or miss. 

 

YOU are the CUC that needs to tend to this....or leave it alone as the case may be.   For me and a lot of people, Bubble Algae occasionally comes and goes on its own and never becomes a problem....so help us to know by posting a pic of the "outbreak".

 

Also, what are your nitrate and phosphate levels if you could post them?  In general Bubble Algae seems to be like hair algae (both are green algae) and grows really well and spreads when nutrient levels are down.

 

Don't panic!   No need for magic bullet style cures. 

 

They do nothing about the conditions that made the algae grow in the first place, so when the cure is gone the algae is back.  (Or another even worse algae.)

[j.falk]

5 hours ago, Clown79 said:

It may not be osteo then. Osteo moves constantly and rapidly.

I'm not sure if this matters or not, but the water was cold when we tested it...once it warmed up on the slide in front of the microscope light they started moving around.

4 hours ago, FrancineJ said:

That’s what we are going to try... maybe using some tweezers or a blade to get them off without popping them....

 

someone else said they used Vibrant (the cleaner stuff that’s supposed to get rid of algae) but he mentions they don’t list bubble algae but it has worked for him....

 

I have some already so I might try using both methods... Manual removal and the vibrant and hope for the best! 
 

it’s so bad one of my big Trochus snails was covered in it lol 😂 I had to pull the poor guy out and clear him off lol

Vibrant has several very good reviews for ridding tanks of bubble algae.

[FrancineJ]

8 minutes ago, j.falk said:

I'm not sure if this matters or not, but the water was cold when we tested it...once it warmed up on the slide in front of the microscope light they started moving around.

Vibrant has several very good reviews for ridding tanks of bubble algae.

Thanks I’m gonna try it and I’ll post what happens... I’ll try for a couple weeks just with the vibrance and if I don’t notice a huge difference I will start with manual removal...

[mcarroll]

No risk in doing it manually...and you are likely to learn in the process like this.   

 

All the risk is with dosing chemicals like this...and if you get the best case scenario and it works, then there's nothing for you to learn.

 

IMO "tricks" like this are for people who take care of tanks that they are never around and which weren't built with their own money.  A maintenance company who does that is who makes and sells this product.  So go figure.

 

On your own tank where you (should) have nothing but time and the want/need to learn, I don't see how magic bullets can make sense.  Not even if they work.

 

Top search result from Google just now to hopefully temper your decision even more:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-vibrant-always-work-for-bubble-algae.352649/

"I have been using Vibrant for about three months trying to rid my aquarium of bubble algae. I have upped my dosing schedule and amount used as I see no results. Can one overdose? Anyone else not able to get bubble algae under control using Vibrant? Success using something else?"

 

They could have gotten rid of it manually in three months time!   LOL   Are they dedicated to using this product or to getting rid of the algae?   

(no more pressure....I promise..... but please do update with your progress either way you go!)