Paneubert's 40G Breeder - Round 2

[paneubert]

Well the two damsels are pretty active, although one seems to have a much darker face/mouth than the other.  It is sort of an optical illusion that I can't quite figure out.  Almost looks like he is missing some of his jaw or mouth.  I try to stare really close to the glass, but he won't hold still.  

 

The Coral Beauty is in hiding, but I can see it a bit, and it appears to be ok.  Not laying on its side or heavy breathing or anything.  So it seems the fish either completely melted in shipping, or were totally fine.  

 

My main frustration with the deaths is that it means that if I decide to re-order, or replace locally, I need to extend the time I have my ugly QT tank sitting on my living room floor spreading salt spray in a 3 foot radius from the foam/sponge filter.  I wanted to get all my fish now and be done with it.....

[Clown79]

Tanks looking good.

 

Love all the nems!

 

I'm sorry you had so many issues with the delivery. I went through a similar situation and it's very frustrating just sitting and waiting. 

 

So sorry some of the fish didn't make it. 

 

 

[paneubert]

16 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Tanks looking good.

 

Love all the nems!

 

I'm sorry you had so many issues with the delivery. I went through a similar situation and it's very frustrating just sitting and waiting. 

 

So sorry some of the fish didn't make it. 

 

 

Thanks. It is a bummer. The remaining fish seem really active. So at least that is a plus. I dosed them with some Metronidazole and Praziquante this morning to get my QT process started. Might start testing and raising copper slowly over the next few days. I had added a bunch of carbon when the QT was fallow after the clowns went into the display tank. So I am guessing the copper was removed between then and now. I took the carbon out when I added the meds.  Will test to see. 

[A Little Blue]

Look at the bright side. Fish that survived this hellish trip are going to be extremely hard to kill. Gotta love fish/coral that can take a punch and just shakes it off. 

[paneubert]

Just tested my Alk since I haven't measured it in a bit.

 

.46 = 8.3 dKH

 

Was 9.3 on the 10th.  So only a drop of 1 dKH in 15 days.  Not surprising since nothing is growing other than algae.  Haha.  

 

Dosed back up to 9.5 and will start to monitor more frequently to get a better idea of daily consumption.  

[skyscraper2290]

Sorry to hear about the fish! At least a couple survived! Are you getting replacements for the fish that were lost? 

[paneubert]

Just now, skyscraper2290 said:

Sorry to hear about the fish! At least a couple survived! Are you getting replacements for the fish that were lost? 

Probably.....well at least I do plan to for the wrasse.  Most likely locally.  I don't care as much about the gramma since that was more something my kids wanted and the price put me over the free shipping level.

 

I guess that is the silver lining here?  I got free shipping (on the original order), and a refund for the ones that died.  Since the price of the ones who lived was cheaper than if I bought locally, I am sort of ahead in the end?  At least when it comes to $$$$ spent.  But the question is how much will a new six-line cost locally versus what I paid online...

[paneubert]

Well, the Coral Beauty jumped sometime yesterday while I was at work.  Nice and crispy when I found her after work 😞  My wife said not to replace it since she now knows they are not super reef safe.  I feel bad since she seemed to really want a Coral Beauty.

 

So since I was down to only having the damsels in QT, and knowing I would get a refund for the Coral Beauty, I figured another round of online ordering might be worth it.  Here is what should ship tonight and arrive tomorrow (Friday).  If they screw up the shipping again, at least there is Saturday as a buffer for delivery.

 

Sailfin/Algae Blenny  (Indonesia) - Large - Hey, why not get something to help with my hair algae?  I have plenty of herbivore food to supplement with as well. 
Six Line Wrasse (Fiji) - Medium - The one fish I really want, other than my existing Maroon Clown pair.   So of course I bought a replacement for my melted one.
Royal Gramma Basslet (Caribbean) - Medium - The one fish my wife wants.  Which is funny.....since last time she claimed the Coral Beauty is the one fish she wants. 

Talbot's Damselfish (Indonesia) - Medium, Qty: 2 - This is 2 in addition to the existing 2 I have in QT.  I forgot how much I liked them last time my tank was set up.  So it was actually sort of nice that I had the opportunity to buy a few more.
Three Stripe Damselfish (Fiji) - Medium, Qty: 3 - Wanted to get above the free shipping level, and these guys will provide some interesting color change from all my "rainbow" fish.  Classic black and white stripes.

 

I am a little worried that I am stocking the tank heavy, but the damsels are small.....right?  Haha.  Make me feel better!  The Gramma  is a "nano" sized fish.  The damsels will stay small.  The six-line won't get THAT big (but I know he needs lots of swimming room).  And I have a sump and a skimmer, and reactors.  So yeah......maybe I will live to regret this.....we will see.  Hopefully not.

 

I think I am actually more worried about how I have a lot of "aggressive" fish.  The Gramma might need to learn some confidence.......

[A Little Blue]

Looking forward to your experience with new batch of fish. Should be a handful. Lol 👍

[skyscraper2290]

Sorry to hear about the coral beauty after surviving the shipping mishap. At least you got a new shipment coming in! Looking forward to seeing the new fish

[paneubert]

Everyone is alive.

 

Most are using all the cracks and crevices to hide.

 

[skyscraper2290]

Glad they all made it safe and sound this go around!

[paneubert]

And so it begins......

 

[paneubert]

 

 

Uhhhhhhh. don't choke on that dude......(it is a Cerith snail in his mouth if you can't tell).

 

[paneubert]

Yargh.......dead Six-Line Wrasse in QT tank.

 

At this point I just want to get one local and not even QT it.  Just to get it into the display tank and eating/acclimating...

[skyscraper2290]

This has been a rough week fish wise for you! Just finding a nice healthy one local might be your best bet at this point. 

[paneubert]

18 hours ago, skyscraper2290 said:

This has been a rough week fish wise for you! Just finding a nice healthy one local might be your best bet at this point. 

Went to my LFS for the first time in a while (now that I think about it, nothing in this tank is from my LFS so far...hahaha.  How is that for supporting local).  They had a six-line, so I picked it up and told the guy that if I have an ich outbreak, I was going to curse his name.  His response was "hey man, it wasn't me who sold you this fish".  Not sure what to make of that.

 

They also had this guy for really cheap.....the Rock Flower Anemone Army grows.  This guy is probably twice the size of the ones I got from AquaSD.  And around the same price.

 

 

Photo below for size comparison with one from Aqua SD.  The perspective is a bit off actually.  The Aqua SD one is super colorful, but not actually as big as it looks in the photo.  It is closer to the camera than the new one.  Anyway, super happy with the new guy as long as he does not wander far.  I always place them where I want them and then hope they don't move much.  If he moves down to the sand, that is fine with me.  He probably won't move backwards since there is a big maxi-mini nem hiding on the far side of that rock.  Haha.  Real estate is getting tight in the tank.  Also.....ignore the hair algae....

 

 

 

[paneubert]

Boooooo......he moved behind that rock as of this morning.,  They all seem to stay where I put them on day 1, then move overnight when the lights are off.  I am going to give him a few days and then see where he is.....  He is really close to a couple Maxi-Mini nems.  I am not sure how that would work out long term.  Not sure if they will sting each other or anything. 

[mcarroll]

That's a ton of coral additions for a tank <2 months.  😉 

 

To get better results with fish I would let your coral and anemones settle and stabilize and then in a few weeks or months, begin adding fish slowly, 1-2 at a time, with a month or two in between additions at minimum.  If you can buy from a high quality LFS (and know how to spot un/healthy fish) then you might be able to skip QT going this route.  QT is certainly easier with fewer fish.  And with long breaks between additions at least your QT won't be up all the time. :)

 

Have you tested for phosphates before or after adding all these corals?  Nitrates?  (The anemone's hiding makes me ask.)

 

Any sign of coraline algae growth yet?

[paneubert]

17 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

That's a ton of coral additions for a tank <2 months.  😉 

 

To get better results with fish I would let your coral and anemones settle and stabilize and then in a few weeks or months, begin adding fish slowly, 1-2 at a time, with a month or two in between additions at minimum.  If you can buy from a high quality LFS (and know how to spot un/healthy fish) then you might be able to skip QT going this route.  QT is certainly easier with fewer fish.  And with long breaks between additions at least your QT won't be up all the time. 🙂

 

Have you tested for phosphates before or after adding all these corals?  Nitrates?  (The anemone's hiding makes me ask.)

 

Any sign of coraline algae growth yet?

Thanks for the comment.

 

I've never seen anything supporting corals adding to the bio-load to any significant extent.  Have you?  Serious question.  Not trying to be contrarian.  They seem to consume way more nutrients than they excrete and anywhere I have ever seen the question of "is it bad to add a lot of coral at once" posed, the consensus has usually been "add as many coral as you want at the same time" due to that.  In my opinion the worst thing they can do is go to war with each other.  But tank age would have little to do with that. 

 

Nitrates and phosphates are both at zero, which may be a good or bad thing depending on who you ask!  Haha.  Do you think it is acting like an ULN tank and that is impacting the anemones?  Or that it is potentially high nutrients?  The hair algae ate up what was in there and now basically stays at zero, with me slowly removing it manually each day.  When I first added the corals, I was feeding pretty heavy with filter feeder food, so I spiked phosphates due to that.  I forgot how little powdered food it takes, and I am sure I was majorly overfeeding.  I have some cheato in the sump that limps along so far.  Have not needed to trim it.  And that is with my refugium light on 24/7 om the cheato chamber.  Also have not fed any powdered food in a few weeks.  I have cleaned my glass.......3 times....ever?  So that might be a good indicator of how low nutrients are in there.

 

If anything, I think the anemones hiding is based on my lighting.  The ones that run seem to settle in lower light or partial shadows.  Plus you gotta remember that I have something like 15 anemones in there and only a couple hide.  The rest are happy exactly where I placed them on day 1.  It is the pretty ones that hide on me!  Haha.  Bummer....

 

I figure if i start losing anyone in the display tank then I will have to troubleshoot, but so far all death has been in shipping or QT tank.  Display corals, fish, and inverts have been doing "swimmingly" (other than running away from me to hide and the one cerith snail who I think got eaten by an anemone).

 

A little coralline is showing up on the glass, and a bit on some of the rocks.  The one rock I nuked with Hydrogen Peroxide is still really white, but gives a good contrast to how the other rocks are darkening.  Reminds me of my old tank when I added chunks of "new" dry rock to the established tank.  Very clear difference between old and new rock.  

[skyscraper2290]

Glad you were able to find a six line locally, how is he doing so far? The rock nems are looking great! Seeing yours always makes me want to get one!

[paneubert]

3 minutes ago, skyscraper2290 said:

Glad you were able to find a six line locally, how is he doing so far? The rock nems are looking great! Seeing yours always makes me want to get one!

It is funny.  The six line hangs out with the clowns a lot.  I assumed he would be scared and hide for a few days, but he has been active since being put in the tank.  Not a ton of hunting and pecking the first day, but a lot more of that today.  The clowns seem to ignore him, which is also nice I guess.  There was the risk that the female maroon would get territorial.  But she seems fine with him.  Feeding time tonight was action packed.  The clowns are little divas when it comes to their pellets, so I have to drop one or two in at a time, and only in a specific area of the tank.  If the pellets hit the sand, they ignore them.  So it is a lot of me saying "Are you ready?  Are you ready for more?"  The six line came over and basically told the clowns that he was way less picky and would eat whatever they ignored before they could lazily swim over to get a sinking pellet.  The weird thing is that the clowns seem to sometimes have a hard time with some of the "bigger" pellets (even though they are all tiny pellets), but the six line with his narrow/pointy face seemed to be able to suck them right in.  Go figure. 

[skyscraper2290]

Haha I love six lines, really neat fish. I was originally thinking about getting one again but ultimately decided against it because I want peaceful fish for the tank. It sounds like he went right into the DT? Clowns can be so weird, I used to get bit by my clowns before I had to take down my tank every time I put my hand in the water. 

[paneubert]

Yeah, I did not put him in QT.......which begs the question why my other fish are still in QT....haha.  I justify it by going with the school of thought that says Wrasses are less susceptible to ich due to their thick mucous coats....  So yeah....I will go with that in order to sleep well at night.  He did come from the same LFS that gave me ich 6 years ago, but they have moved locations since then, and it has been 6 years.  Don't make me think about it!  Haha.  Yikes.  

 

The fish in QT will most likely go into the display in another week or so.  I mostly have just been letting them simmer in QT with copper and whatever meds are still floating around.  Nobody is showing any signs of sickness.  Seems to either be death within 24 hours, or just fine forever.  

[mcarroll]

14 hours ago, paneubert said:

Nitrates and phosphates are both at zero

This is what you need to watch out for – it is not a goal.  🙂  A growth spurt, such as from adding a bunch of corals, will run down the system's available nutrients and can cause a nutrient-crash...where levels reach zero.  

 

Your anemone has to acclimate to new lighting – which is a phosphate-intensive process.  (Nutrient-intensive in general, really.)  When he started to get burned and there were minimal-to-no resources available for repair, he ran for the shade.  This helps him to avoid damage in the first place, and lets him bide his time in acclimating under the current circumstances.  (Bleaching out would be the alternative if he couldn't find cover.)

 

Not having much in the way of fish-load is actually hurting more than just your heart right now...it's limiting the amount of nutrients going into the tank just at the time the tank's going through (or went through) a growth spurt.

 

I would suggest removing the macro algae from the equation – the tank doesn't need it, and it might be delaying your anemone's acclimation as well as the growth of your corals.

 

15 hours ago, paneubert said:

A little coralline is showing up on the glass, and a bit on some of the rocks.

That's a good sign, but it will starve out too under these conditions.  

 

I still wouldn't do anything more than remove the unnecessary competition from the equation.  Perhaps some light broadcast feeding if you can.  Gotta be light so you don't spike the nutrients in the tank the other direction...using a whole food like baby brine shrimp or Reef Nutrition's ROE that has excellent boyancy and relatively low nutrients (vs flake or pellet foods) will be the best option.  (low but of the correct profile)

 

From what you've said, your tank wasn't so low in nutrients before.  

 

That would explain any anemones that didn't run as well as corals that acclimated without problems.  You're right that light is related....more light creates a demand for more nutrients....especially phosphate.  (I have lotsa articles on this on my blog, but don't wannt clog your thread with em....just check out the Coral section.  If you search there on "anemone" you'll get a really good one.)

 

Your tank probably has (or had) a reservoir of phosphates attached to available aragonite surfaces to draw on for some time – that plus trace sources of nitrogen is probably what's growing the algae you're seeing.  

 

For better or worse, algae can use that phosphate directly by settling and growing right on the source.

 

Your corals and anemones need it to be dissolved first.  

 

This puts the corals second in line for this nutrient source 

 

It possibly even makes this source competitively unavailable to them.

 

If your macro isn't dying off, that's a good sign.....just don't let it keep competing with your corals.

 

If needed you can always restart the macro section after the fish go in....after your tank actually shows some need for it again.  🙂 🙂