Jebao has done it again...

[basser1]

Looks like Jebao has come out with a knock-off Gyre. First it was the Hhydor-Flo pumps, now the Maxspect......

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2015/12/17/jecod-cross-flow-wave-pumpjebao-gyre-pump-knock-off-surfaces-as-jecod-cross-flow-wave-pump/

[HarryPotter]

Sweet! Looks promising

[Benny314]

Well if companies will out source the construction of their products to the lowest Chinese manufacture then these things will happen lol.

These are probably made by the same under paid workers who build the gyre, just put in a different box.

The article states they'll be made with lower grade components, I'd put money on these being identical in construction, just in a box that doesn't have a brand name commanding a premium price.

[ajmckay]

Well if companies will out source the construction of their products to the lowest Chinese manufacture then these things will happen lol.

These are probably made by the same under paid workers who build the gyre, just put in a different box.

The article states they'll be made with lower grade components, I'd put money on these being identical in construction, just in a box that doesn't have a brand name commanding a premium price.

 

Eh I wouldn't count on them being identical. Many companies in China (and other places, even the U.S.) have pretty much mastered reverse engineering of a product. There will no doubt be changes in materials and overall fit & finish. I'm not saying these changes will make for a crappy product, but likely it won't be the same quality as the Gyre - at least for now.

 

I myself respect patents and the IP of others, as long as they're put to good use. In other words if Maxspect suddenly dropped the quality of their gyre, or they sold it for a crazy price then yes I see that as a perfect opportunity for someone else to "try to do it better" - regardless of patents. IMO patents shouldn't be used to make people or companies rich, but rather to foster ideas and innovation.

[Benny314]

As the saying goes "everything is made in china". Why do you think all DC return pumps had the same body shape to start with..... They were all produced by the same factory(s) and the colour of the plastic used to make them was changed along with the name on the box depending on what the brand the pump was being sold under wanted. These are almost certainly made by the same factory who were commissioned to assemble the gyres.

[gulfsurfer101]

Well I've heard nothing but junk reviews from the over priced gyre! I respect the fact that they did the research involved and all that but they are still offering a inferior product with the cheapest parts involved in a fancy packaging. Thier cries fall on deaf ears imo! It's like this, if Jack is jerking me off offering me honda in Ferrari kit car at a Ferrari price tag and john is giving me the same thing down the road at a honda price tag then f### Jack d I'm going to my boy John, or jeabo in this matter!

[Benny314]

Well I've heard nothing but junk reviews from the over priced gyre! I respect the fact that they did the research involved and all that but they are still offering a inferior product with the cheapest parts involved ina fancy packaging. Thier cries fall on dwaf ears imo! It's like this, if Jack is jerking me off offering me honda in Ferrari kit car at a Ferrari price tag and john is giving me the same thing down the road at a honda price tag then f### Jack d I'm going to my boy John, or jeabo in this matter!

 

This is exactly my argument with regard to vortech mp pumps.

I am for ever reading about people complaining their fancy no wire in the tank pump that cost them £350+ has failed/become annoyingly noisy/broken during routine cleaning in the first few months to a year of owning them and it will cost another £100 or so for a bearing kit/wet side etc when I can by at least 7 similar output jebao pumps for the same initial cost of one vortech. I have been using jebao RW's since setting up my 75g a year ago and none of them have missed a beat yet and better still I can choose to point the flow diagonally across the tank if I want. Can't do that with a vortech.

All manufactures will look to build products as cheaply as possible to get the biggest mark up. Clearly as the article illustrates the gyres must be some where the other side of a 300% mark up if the jebao knock off is a third of the retail price.

[gus6464]

Gyres are kinda junky. I have the 150 and the rotors are absolute trash. The tiniest snail and they rip to shreds. It was a not a premium product to begin with. The pricing of the Jebao gyre looks to be ~$120 for the 45watt one so I will definitely pick one up to try.

[Tamberav]

 

This is exactly my argument with regard to vortech mp pumps.

I am for ever reading about people complaining their fancy no wire in the tank pump that cost them £350+ has failed/become annoyingly noisy/broken during routine cleaning in the first few months to a year of owning them and it will cost another £100 or so for a bearing kit/wet side etc when I can by at least 7 similar output jebao pumps for the same initial cost of one vortech. I have been using jebao RW's since setting up my 75g a year ago and none of them have missed a beat yet and better still I can choose to point the flow diagonally across the tank if I want. Can't do that with a vortech.

 

 

I have 3 vortechs from 2012 and they run great. I wouldn't have picked up 2 more after my 1st one if the 1st one wasn't so solid. I have a RW4 that runs well too. My only complaint is the mp10 isn't really strong enough for a 40B SPS imo.... and the price of a MP40 is ehhhh. For bigger tanks I would probably go jaebo just for the price point. For smaller... can't beat a used $100 Mp10 in good condition imo.

 

You will find people with different opinions and experiences on every pump.

 

I can't speak for gyre's longevity. This knockoff has my attention though simply because the gyre is too new to prove its reliability to me.

[Benny314]

 

 

I have 3 vortechs from 2012 and they run great. I wouldn't have picked up 2 more after my 1st one if the 1st one wasn't so solid. I have a RW4 that runs well and two.

 

You will find people with different opinions and experiences on every pump.

 

I can't speak for gyre's longevity. This knockoff has my attention though simply because the gyre is too new to prove its reliability to me.

 

Yes you are quite right people only generally take to the internet etc to complain.

 

However in my mind a product being offered for such a large amount of money should be well built and last years with out needing regular repair. A lot of vortech failures appear to be from poor setup as I understand the wet and dry side need to be perfectly aligned otherwise you end up with bearing noise and failure, also a lot of people seem to blame running the pump at full chat to be the cause of failure?

The biggest complaint in this topic is the gyre rotors are fragile and tear up easily when fouled.

Both of these high end pumps clearly have some basic design flaws that cause these complaints, if I was to pay that much for a pump I'd want it idiot proof. It's fairly obvious marine critters could well make their way/be sucked into the pump during normal operation, why isn't the gyre designed to cope with this and how is it the vortech can be miss aligned during instillation or run so hard it causes failure.

[gulfsurfer101]

I had major problems with ecotech customer service. I had to send my mp20 back in because no matter how many times I reset it would give me a fail code till it just refused to work altogether. Thankfully it was under warranty. It took them about two and a half months to get it back to me. Soon after that the bearing needed replacing and was constantly giving me a fail code but it was no longer covered by warranty because it was over the 1yr mark now. I cried to them to fix it and that three months of it's original warranty it had sat there forgotten in thier hands. They agreed only if I paid for shipping. It wasn't long after that it started getting stuck again and when I called them up to explain that a 300 dollar pump shouldn't be such a pain in the @$$ they basically treated me like a chump. I sold that pos lemon for a 100 and told the guy my issue then he went and filed a pp complaint basically robbing me over it because he couldn't get it to work but still refused to return it. Anyway f### ecotech all the way around. At least if my jeabo pump goes out I knew what I was buying to begin with and I'll just buy another one. Zero ####'s given!

[zsxking]

Funny how my experience regarding vortech vs jebao pump is completely reversed. My mp10 has been running for 2 years and still going strong, while my RW 4 died after 9 months.

 

But back to this new jebao pump, I'm more interesting in what controller it come with. Because the controller of jebao RW is pretty underwhelming. I mean, no speed control in w1 and w2 mode? What a joke ...

 

Also wondering how much does maxspect patternes gyro. They surely didn't invent that type of rotor. So I would imaging there are room to walk around the pattern and still make a similar style pump.

[Tamberav]

I had major problems with ecotech customer service. I had to send my mp20 back in because no matter how many times I reset it would give me a fail code till it just refused to work altogether. Thankfully it was under warranty. It took them about two and a half months to get it back to me. Soon after that the bearing needed replacing and was constantly giving me a fail code but it was no longer covered by warranty because it was over the 1yr mark now. I cried to them to fix it and that three months of it's original warranty it had sat there forgotten in thier hands. They agreed only if I paid for shipping. It wasn't long after that it started getting stuck again and when I called them up to explain that a 300 dollar pump shouldn't be such a pain in the @$$ they basically treated me like a chump. I sold that pos lemon for a 100 and told the guy my issue then he went and filed a pp complaint basically robbing me over it because he couldn't get it to work but still refused to return it. Anyway f### ecotech all the way around. At least if my jeabo pump goes out I knew what I was buying to begin with and I'll just buy another one. Zero ####'s given!

 

Sounds shitty, Mp20's are were the blue box generation, ya?

 

My feelings is Jaebo 1st gen type stuff isn't super awesome and then they tweak it and make it better. Example is the controller change for their wp series, and they removed the light sensor I think? Because it didn't work right? I remember the propeller changing color too although I don't know if that effected functionality.

[tautog83]

I agree first genereation of the wp's didnt go over all that great, but the r line seems to work so good . Ive had mine about a year now and no problem at all. the people who defend the mp's are people who feel guilt that they spent $400 for something that thas a little smaller foootprint inside the tank. Im not saying the the vortech isnt a good product at all the its just the price tag doesnt justify it. I mean 2 mp40's are 800?? like keep saying that yourself until it sounds silly. The gyre's went over like a lead balloon and like the previous poster said you bet its probably made in same factory . In fact its probably the smart thing to do now,. let people buy your new product at crazy prices and if it goes over bad, make a "cheaper" knockoff . its probabbly almost identical with some changes to the outside for a 1/3 rd of the price. It gives new reefers and old ones who wanted to try the gyre a new option and genereates sales. Instead of adapting to the market ecotech keeps targeting once audience and thats the one with a lot of money . Like i said all good products but you can find pretty similiar performance for 1/3 of the cost

[gulfsurfer101]

Sounds shitty, Mp20's are were the blue box generation, ya?

 

My feelings is Jaebo 1st gen type stuff isn't super awesome and then they tweak it and make it better. Example is the controller change for their wp series, and they removed the light sensor I think? Because it didn't work right? I remember the propeller changing color too although I don't know if that effected functionality.

Yes the mp20 was the blue box generation! I was all suportive of them when they first came out however that ended really fast. I've used both the wp and rw series pumps from jeabo and they do everything they claim to do! Like I said though it was pretty heartbreaking knowing I had purchased a brand new very expensive peice of equipment that was too soon out of date as soon as they introduced the mp10 and turned their back on the mp20's. At least when my 65 dollar pumps go out someday I'll feel that I have gotten every dollar I paid for them. Now if I could just get my hands on one of these new pumps before I reset up my 75g I'd be a happy guy!

[Benny314]

Funny how my experience regarding vortech vs jebao pump is completely reversed. My mp10 has been running for 2 years and still going strong, while my RW 4 died after 9 months.

 

But back to this new jebao pump, I'm more interesting in what controller it come with. Because the controller of jebao RW is pretty underwhelming. I mean, no speed control in w1 and w2 mode? What a joke ...

 

Also wondering how much does maxspect patternes gyro. They surely didn't invent that type of rotor. So I would imaging there are room to walk around the pattern and still make a similar style pump.

 

What do you mean can't adjust the speed in W1 and W2. The dial controls how often the pulse is and the 'speed' button increases the pump power from 30-100% incrementally. The only none controllable function is ELSE which runs random pulses and power all the way up to 100%.

[zsxking]

 

What do you mean can't adjust the speed in W1 and W2. The dial controls how often the pulse is and the 'speed' button increases the pump power from 30-100% incrementally. The only none controllable function is ELSE which runs random pulses and power all the way up to 100%.

It can only adjust the pulse. But the speed is always 30%~100%. I wanted to something like 10%~40%, but that's no go.

[Tamberav]

I agree first genereation of the wp's didnt go over all that great, but the r line seems to work so good . Ive had mine about a year now and no problem at all. the people who defend the mp's are people who feel guilt that they spent $400 for something that thas a little smaller foootprint inside the tank. Im not saying the the vortech isnt a good product at all the its just the price tag doesnt justify it. I mean 2 mp40's are 800?? like keep saying that yourself until it sounds silly. The gyre's went over like a lead balloon and like the previous poster said you bet its probably made in same factory . In fact its probably the smart thing to do now,. let people buy your new product at crazy prices and if it goes over bad, make a "cheaper" knockoff . its probabbly almost identical with some changes to the outside for a 1/3 rd of the price. It gives new reefers and old ones who wanted to try the gyre a new option and genereates sales. Instead of adapting to the market ecotech keeps targeting once audience and thats the one with a lot of money . Like i said all good products but you can find pretty similiar performance for 1/3 of the cost

 

I think guilt is the wrong idea. I think this can be a very expensive hobby and some people have $ to burn. Some people spend hundreds on a coral, which could die... or $100's on a fish. A designer clownfish? $100? $150? $300? People buy the newest and "greatest" lighting when cheaper options have arguably shown good results.

 

TBH I feel guilty about buying fish. lol I just lost a $50 goby because it found a tiny gap in the hood. Fish jerky! I was pretty upset to see that $50 bill light on fire....

[jestep]

Awesome, might as well make Hydor's lawsuit a class action at this point.

[BluCrab]

Much rather buy a Jebao pump or power head and save $$ , the RW4 , models work fine and so does my Dc6000. Great products ! Plus if one goes out I'd rather go buy a new one . $50-120 is worth it vs $299- $400

I'm about to go pick up two RW-8s

[jestep]

As the saying goes "everything is made in china". Why do you think all DC return pumps had the same body shape to start with..... They were all produced by the same factory(s) and the colour of the plastic used to make them was changed along with the name on the box depending on what the brand the pump was being sold under wanted. These are almost certainly made by the same factory who were commissioned to assemble the gyres.

 

Someone tried to make this argument with all of the knockoff carbon fiber bike components coming out of china, and they eventually found none were produced in the same factories. Almost all were reverse engineered, but they usually come up way short on quality control, and don't have a number of engineering specs that make the originals significantly higher quality and longer lasting. Judging from the failure rate of jebao products, I'd be surprised if that wasn't the same case here.

[Benny314]

 

Judging from the failure rate of jebao products, I'd be surprised if that wasn't the same case here.

 

Bare in mind we've already established there are as many complaints about high priced products failing. Just doesn't hurt your wallet as much when a cheap product fails.

[basser1]

 

Bare in mind we've already established there are as many complaints about high priced products failing. Just doesn't hurt your wallet as much when a cheap product fails.

 

And to that I say Amen...

 

I'm neither defending or knocking Jebao, but I have one of their dosers, the DP4. It's a knock-off of one of the more expensive dosers, the GHL Proflux (the older model). So far, it's doing a great job and very accurate all at a cost of around a $100 bucks vs. $300 for the GHL...

[Tamberav]

 

And to that I say Amen...

 

I'm neither defending or knocking Jebao, but I have one of their dosers, the DP4. It's a knock-off of one of the more expensive dosers, the GHL Proflux (the older model). So far, it's doing a great job and very accurate all at a cost of around a $100 bucks vs. $300 for the GHL...

 

I want the apex doser but god damn... I just can't swallow the cost for TWO dosers. If it had 3, I would be on board. I think eventually I will give in though Something about having everything integrated into the apex is just appealing.

 

Right now i have the cheap BRS dosers but they work.

 

 

 

Bare in mind we've already established there are as many complaints about high priced products failing. Just doesn't hurt your wallet as much when a cheap product fails.

 

The MP10's were out long before the jaebos. I think it is good to have competition though to try and keep prices under control. I got my 1st mp10 before jaebos existed. I bought it because it had battery backup ability. It has paid for itself every winter when our power goes out from snow storms. I would like to upgrade from mp10 to gyre though, just too nervous being it is such a new product. I'm sure it will get upgrades and new generations through the years to try and address issues. It already got a new mounting bracket because of noise. I will probably wait for feedback on this jaebo gyre and try one of those if it looks promising. My bet is it gets reworked a few times by jaebo though.

 

Personally I think jaebo hurts pumps like koralia more than vortech. The people who want value for their $ probably would go koralia if jaebo didn't exist. Koralia was basically the choice if you didn't want to pony up for vortech or tunze. Now jaebo is the choice.

[tautog83]

All of the jebao fails? There are a lot ecotech problems too and for 400 personally a stripper should jump out of the box ..excuse my comparison but that's how I feel . I had 2 mp10 fail granted it was when they first released it but still if you do some research plenty of problems out there . the whole Reef builder article is based on speculation too let the consumer decide or make a review when you see the actual product . I mean he's bashing the product when the original gets mediocre reviews to begin with .