gus6464 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 3 power cords is not THAT bad. A sunpower has 3 power cords and no one complains about that. Link to comment
DaveFason Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There are pros and cons to everything. Before things really took off ( the past few years ) most units came with a couple power supplies. As things progressed some started moving to one/two cords. The Mini series runs off two power supplies and the DUO/QUAD three. On the website is breaks down the power supplies included. I have been in the hobby for some time too. It was normal to have separate cords for certain items. It also allowed for easy swapping IF something happened. The Nano Box line does NOT need to be plugged into any dedicated on/off power outlet so you could always just run a small power strip of a 3:1 power plug for it. Simply plug it in and you are set. An issue with one massive power supply is the cost involved. Have you ever looked at the price of a Radion power supply? Even AI sells the simple desktop power supply for $50. I tried to have a product that was affordable and easy to swap IF something were to happen to a supply. I normally charge $25-40 for a power supply and 7.95-$10 for the fan/usb chargers. Any who things will be changing. I do listen to people and like to hear feedback. I also pride myself that I keep up with peoples threads, answer questions and try to keep up with the times. Believe me, I listen! I do always find it funny about APEX running systems as most will say how streamline it works for them. Then when you look under the tank there are wires, modules, plugs, dosers and all types of inspector gadget stuff going on. Each module has a plug and then some have extra wires to connect one another. Again I am working on and thanks for the feedback. -Dave Link to comment
pgrVII Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There are pros and cons to everything. Before things really took off ( the past few years ) most units came with a couple power supplies. As things progressed some started moving to one/two cords. The Mini series runs off two power supplies and the DUO/QUAD three. On the website is breaks down the power supplies included. I have been in the hobby for some time too. It was normal to have separate cords for certain items. It also allowed for easy swapping IF something happened. The Nano Box line does NOT need to be plugged into any dedicated on/off power outlet so you could always just run a small power strip of a 3:1 power plug for it. Simply plug it in and you are set. An issue with one massive power supply is the cost involved. Have you ever looked at the price of a Radion power supply? Even AI sells the simple desktop power supply for $50. I tried to have a product that was affordable and easy to swap IF something were to happen to a supply. I normally charge $25-40 for a power supply and 7.95-$10 for the fan/usb chargers. Any who things will be changing. I do listen to people and like to hear feedback. I also pride myself that I keep up with peoples threads, answer questions and try to keep up with the times. Believe me, I listen! I do always find it funny about APEX running systems as most will say how streamline it works for them. Then when you look under the tank there are wires, modules, plugs, dosers and all types of inspector gadget stuff going on. Each module has a plug and then some have extra wires to connect one another. Again I am working on and thanks for the feedback. -Dave Truth. The brick (literally the size of a brick) power supply of my maxspect 60w was very cumbersome to hide whereas my duo has a small power supply easily hidden behind the desk,with the cord wrap on my wall really that's all you see from my duo,sleek baby And not to derail the thread,but it kinda depends what you are needing and wanting,I like t5s but hate replacing bulbs twice a year,what works or appeals to some may not for others. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 The problem with making a fixture smaller and relying on fan cooling is that the fans will be the first thing to fail - they almost always are. Shortly thereafter the electronics would fail from heat stress. Thermal overload protection. Temp gets too high a sensor shuts it all down and illuminates a warning LED. Cheap and easy and would make the units smaller. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There are pros and cons to everything. Before things really took off ( the past few years ) most units came with a couple power supplies. As things progressed some started moving to one/two cords. The Mini series runs off two power supplies and the DUO/QUAD three. On the website is breaks down the power supplies included. I have been in the hobby for some time too. It was normal to have separate cords for certain items. It also allowed for easy swapping IF something happened. The Nano Box line does NOT need to be plugged into any dedicated on/off power outlet so you could always just run a small power strip of a 3:1 power plug for it. Simply plug it in and you are set. An issue with one massive power supply is the cost involved. Have you ever looked at the price of a Radion power supply? Even AI sells the simple desktop power supply for $50. I tried to have a product that was affordable and easy to swap IF something were to happen to a supply. I normally charge $25-40 for a power supply and 7.95-$10 for the fan/usb chargers. Any who things will be changing. I do listen to people and like to hear feedback. I also pride myself that I keep up with peoples threads, answer questions and try to keep up with the times. Believe me, I listen! I do always find it funny about APEX running systems as most will say how streamline it works for them. Then when you look under the tank there are wires, modules, plugs, dosers and all types of inspector gadget stuff going on. Each module has a plug and then some have extra wires to connect one another. Again I am working on and thanks for the feedback. -Dave Radion power supplies are INSANELY expensive because they are proprietary yada yada. You are doing it right by making yours pretty universal in that aspect. Apex units aren't THAT cumbersome. This is ALL of my equipment to run my entire tank in a 18x24 area. I'd say that is pretty damn good. Had to hide my Radion power supplies behind the stand because they are so big. Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Nobody is bashing the company or the fixtures. People began talking about their controllers and how many wires they have but each of those are usually running one piece of equipment. Yes, having a ton of equipment can be a hassle so if there is a way to cut down on the wires and especially the sockets being used then it's definitely a benefit. This thread initially had NOTHING to do with controllers and managing the cables for the rest of an aquarium. Here is the important part of the thread: 1 - I asked if there was a way to cut the number of plugs by putting the fan and LEDs together 2 - Dave said he is already working on it but technical and cost issues need to be handled End Result: Suggestion has been responded to and already under consideration = thread is done. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Nobody is bashing the company or the fixtures. People began talking about their controllers and how many wires they have but each of those are usually running one piece of equipment. Yes, having a ton of equipment can be a hassle so if there is a way to cut down on the wires and especially the sockets being used then it's definitely a benefit. This thread initially had NOTHING to do with controllers and managing the cables for the rest of an aquarium. Here is the important part of the thread: 1 - I asked if there was a way to cut the number of plugs by putting the fan and LEDs together 2 - Dave said he is already working on it but technical and cost issues need to be handled End Result: Suggestion has been responded to and already under consideration = thread is done. Thread isn't done because you say it is. Seems like people still have input they would like to add. Nothing wrong with evolving the thread to cover more aspects of tank keeping. Link to comment
evanski Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Thread isn't done because you say it is. Seems like people still have input they would like to add. Nothing wrong with evolving the thread to cover more aspects of tank keeping. Honestly, what can you expect from a guy from Chapel Hell? Probably a Tar Whole fan and everything... Link to comment
Tom@HaslettMI Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 This won't solve the "too many wires" comcerns of some, but it does eliminate one plug. Check it out... http://www.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=400738 Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 This won't solve the "too many wires" comcerns of some, but it does eliminate one plug. Check it out... http://www.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=400738 Plus if you use an AI controller you can get that USB power Link to comment
braaap Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 This won't solve the "too many wires" comcerns of some, but it does eliminate one plug. Check it out... http://www.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=400738 I worry about using those because the plastic housings always concern me. I've seen a few of them burn up by just having a lamp, charger and clock using them. Not that brand or same unit but similar. Plus if you use an AI controller you can get that USB power Apex really should put one USB plug on their base unit for a web cam or something. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I worry about using those because the plastic housings always concern me. I've seen a few of them burn up by just having a lamp, charger and clock using them. Not that brand or same unit but similar. Apex really should put one USB plug on their base unit for a web cam or something. Web cams use USB power? I had no clue haha. You can always use a cheap USB wall port Link to comment
DaveFason Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yep. Now you have done a great job with the wire management but to my point. You have five different modules for just the APEX correct? Again you have done a great job and thanks for the feedback! Radion power supplies are INSANELY expensive because they are proprietary yada yada. You are doing it right by making yours pretty universal in that aspect. Apex units aren't THAT cumbersome. This is ALL of my equipment to run my entire tank in a 18x24 area. I'd say that is pretty damn good. Had to hide my Radion power supplies behind the stand because they are so big. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yep. Now you have done a great job with the wire management but to my point. You have five different modules for just the APEX correct? Again you have done a great job and thanks for the feedback! 4. 2 Energy Bars, Base unit, WXM for full Radion control. So not nearly as bad as some. Cant justify $250 for a Salinity monitor etc. Is there a way to run the bluefish off the light power? Because I might understand incorrectly but it has to be connected to the light at all times anyways right? I've never looked into the bluefish much because I have no need for it right now. I know the mini is integrated but not sure the power requirements. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 4. 2 Energy Bars, Base unit, WXM for full Radion control. So not nearly as bad as some. Cant justify $250 for a Salinity monitor etc. Is there a way to run the bluefish off the light power? Because I might understand incorrectly but it has to be connected to the light at all times anyways right? I've never looked into the bluefish much because I have no need for it right now. I know the mini is integrated but not sure the power requirements. Dude you have a Radion.... Why worry about Bluefish LOL Link to comment
braaap Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Web cams use USB power? I had no clue haha. You can always use a cheap USB wall port A lot of them do. The entire point is eliminating plugs lol. Dude you have a Radion.... Why worry about Bluefish LOL Because I would entertain getting a NanoBox for another tank in the future. Not all my tanks will be able to use a Radion. Say if I got a small desktop tank for work. Right now I'd use a AI Prime. 1 power supply. I'd rather use a Mini though. Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Thread isn't done because you say it is. Seems like people still have input they would like to add. Nothing wrong with evolving the thread to cover more aspects of tank keeping. Then you're taking this thread completely off topic since it has nothing to do with the original suggestion/question. It would be more appropriate to simply make a new thread if you want to discuss lighting/tank controllers (hmm, maybe in the lighting/equipment sections of the forum??). Honestly, what can you expect from a guy from Chapel Hell? Probably a Tar Whole fan and everything... Just to clear the air, I do attend UNC as a graduate student. Heaven forbid I try to keep a thread that I started on topic. What was I thinking?!?! Then again, common sense is rare on the internet. On that note, I'm unfollowing this thread. Dave, thanks for the responses and the clarification on the plugs and possible future improvements. Just one more year and hopefully I'll be able to afford a Duo or maybe even a Quad. Link to comment
Horerczy Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's possible to bring a mini down to one power supply but it's costly. The cheapest way using quality parts (because using one of those $3 china special DC/DC converters to drop one plug is a bad idea) would be meanwell scwXXX-05 DC/DC constant voltage converters do l to power the storm or bf mini. Problem is those are $8-$12 each and would require a new PCB made to accommodate them as well as a new driver box with vents and preferably a tiny fan (~$8). as the DC/DC CV step down converters tend to make a lot of heat. All in all probably an up cost of $50 just to eliminate one plug. So interest of a mini tide with two plugs for $300 you note have a one plug tide for $350. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's possible to bring a mini down to one power supply but it's costly. The cheapest way using quality parts (because using one of those $3 china special DC/DC converters to drop one plug is a bad idea) would be meanwell scwXXX-05 DC/DC constant voltage converters do l to power the storm or bf mini. Problem is those are $8-$12 each and would require a new PCB made to accommodate them as well as a new driver box with vents and preferably a tiny fan (~$8). as the DC/DC CV step down converters tend to make a lot of heat. All in all probably an up cost of $50 just to eliminate one plug. So interest of a mini tide with two plugs for $300 you note have a one plug tide for $350. That is buying single parts and pieces. I'm sure buying bulk could lower that price point significantly and then be worked into the price of the unit accordingly. Link to comment
Merthynia Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 That is buying single parts and pieces. I'm sure buying bulk could lower that price point significantly and then be worked into the price of the unit accordingly. But how many would you have to buy to bring the cost down to a price point that would be worth it to the end consumer? Dave is one man so he is limited by the amount of units he can crank out per week. Since he also doesn't have a gigantic warehouse (I assume) he is also limited by storage. Plus, he would be tied into these parts for years if he ends up purchasing them like that and they either aren't up to the standards he has set or if he decides to go another direction later. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 But how many would you have to buy to bring the cost down to a price point that would be worth it to the end consumer? Dave is one man so he is limited by the amount of units he can crank out per week. Since he also doesn't have a gigantic warehouse (I assume) he is also limited by storage. Plus, he would be tied into these parts for years if he ends up purchasing them like that and they either aren't up to the standards he has set or if he decides to go another direction later. I have no idea. I'd assume several hundred. But they can be used across 4 or 5 lines of lights easily. Obviously he would have to do some testing to ensure they met quality standards etc. Dave said to hang tight he is working on something. I'm sure he is. The discussion is still good to have though. I had no idea all that was necessary what Horerczy said. Link to comment
Merthynia Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have no idea. I'd assume several hundred. But they can be used across 4 or 5 lines of lights easily. Obviously he would have to do some testing to ensure they met quality standards etc. Dave said to hang tight he is working on something. I'm sure he is. The discussion is still good to have though. I had no idea all that was necessary what Horerczy said. I'm sure he has something awesome up his sleeve. It'll be great to see whatever it ends up being. Link to comment
Horerczy Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Dave's fan of choice for the tide (quads and duos use a different size and the hybrid uses its own size which is basketless I believe) can buy had for as little as $3.52/Each @ 500 piece price break on digikey. For a tide an SCW05B-05 for the mini would be the ideal unit. On the duo and quad Dave needs to step up to the SCW05C-05. Neither of these components are all that easy to source bulk afaik and I've looked. The only bulk seller I've located that I trust self them for a bulk price of $8.75/Each @ 25 unit price break. And they only have 20 of one in stock while the other has an 11 week lead time currently. Dave could make something to do the same thing but after parts prototyping and assembly it wouldn't be any cheaper and would take up more space. I don't know what Dave spends on the bodies to get them but we're now looking at a mini tide sized driver box to accommodate a fan. Also increased mill time to cut vents in the driver boxes. The new driver board wouldn't be too expensive. The footprint for an SCW08B-05 is the same as an ldd-h so it's just a matter of getting design reworked to accommodate the different pin out. All in all $50 is a conservative estimate but one in betting wouldn't be too far off from reality. Link to comment
braaap Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 ^ Ya but sourcing them on a website is much different than sourcing them straight from the manufacturer. That is what he does is my guess. Only way to make a decent profit is to cut out that middle man. Link to comment
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