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brandon429

9 year old 1 gallon pico reef, last full tank shot before cleaning

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https://imageshack.com/i/idwEB5Edj

 

 

I can't figure out with my ipad browser how to make the pic stick on the page but here's the link

 

Would one of you computer savvy posters repost this pic as a big full tank shot ! Would be better than boring link.

 

I pmd this crowded pic to maritza the vase reef its a send off for the old crowded bearded sage that is the reefbowl which has never had rocks or sand removed since 2006

this is whats coming regarding pico reef science 2015:

 

-the specifics we've discussed in Roland's .7 pico reef post will now be applied to my tank. Any advice about mini cycles ever given out is now going to be applied in house and w have the same predictability, its time to descale the inside of my pico, use vinegar to literally melt all sps off the walls and all the coralline, clean out the sandbed via removal and rinse, and use majano wand to kill off the red mushrooms that invaded and killed some long term corals, and put the whole biosystem back together without a mini cycle or loss.

 

A much more insulting undertaking than just bringing some live rock home from the pet store, as a tie in to cycle and mini cycle threads we might reference with this thread one day

 

It'll take about a week to zap all the mushrooms off current LR and get the new bowl ready. I've searched all over town for the large vases but they are out! I was going to use new bright glass but its not avail so ill vinegar zap this one.

 

I will put all substrate back minus 1/3 that way the new bowl arrange will be open and allow for another ten years

 

Combining feeding only with water changes is how the deep sand bed lasted this long, they normally spoil sooner, but its time for full cleaning and a bright new start. This aquarium is nearly ten yrs algae free not because of chasing nutrients or ever caring about exact po4 levels, excessive export cleanliness, or luck...its free because of the laws of obligate hitchhikers and how they run independent of nutrient levels. By killing potential invaders until their DNA is no longer in the tank (except for red mushrooms lol) no algae can grow but cyanobacteria can grow because they get in via contamination pathways commonly. Controlling import and action upon emergence of any algae is the total key to being algae free.

 

Can you imagine how unique it is to know your tank cannot be taken by any algae? Even invasive red mushrooms follow the rules of obligate hitchhikers and if you let one remain, expect 200 in a few yrs if you have an inaccessible rock scape. This rebooted reefbowl is about catching it up to 2015 tank control standards

 

The gelidium I once had as a concern was peroxide burnt and can be no more, unless its reimported.

 

 

The rocks w be in a holding vat while I work on burning off mushroom invasion

 

The empty vase with sps nearly coating it 360 degrees will be filled with vinegar until all the sps melts off and I won't put it on the glass again! Mistake from 2008 lol couple years after start I thought it would be neat to have antler prongs growing off the glass there a post here somewhere that shows day 1 of the plug.

 

I'll put back in the sand that was washed and the live rock and corals made free of invading red mushrooms. This has been a helpful experiment to show that when you time your pico reef feeding to water changes its not hard to run a deep sand bed and the rocks are not laden with phosphates. No gfo or phosphate binding or anything other than an airstone runs the reefbowl.

 

 

 

This fully stacked rock arrangement does not allow for full access to all areas, so my rescape will leave out some rock and have more open water. I'll concentrate the old corals I have left, the blastos have been in a vase reef since 2001, as a little pile in the center aquascape with some red brain thats not been stung yet.

 

Old tanks getting a reboot and then reusing the same substrates are a nice way to continue longevity testing in the pico reef. I could have easily let this system go longer untouched until it was sealed over but why not interrupt the light blocking and crowding and give the old LPS in there a fresh start for this decade.

 

B

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interesting micro details

 

https://imageshack.us/i/p8NLwbguj

 

this is the inside shot, most of the inner glass surfaces are built up with sps burms like this one

 

notice how before the alien invasion the sps had grown right up to the water line as it does in nature, an actual fringing reef made itself here...then mushrooms stung it out in vital space competition, then coralline took over and other corals in time would make use of the increased surface area as vital space over and over until all vital space was used up.

 

I have old pics somewhere that show this exact shot with full montipora overgrowth covering the opening of the bowl but I ground that out with a dremel to make room for lower corals. The sps that remained at the base was the source of this inch wide micro fringing reef inside the reefbowl

 

 

https://imageshack.com/i/ey5zuT7Ej

heres an f10 ish generation of blastomussa from a long distant 2001 parent colony. this entire mass started as a one cm side bud of a new polyp from the side of colonies passed down since 2001 and grew to lock my rock stack in place. im having to physically break rocks that generated inside the vase just like a real reef

 

this shows, for the first time, the scale of sps encrusting working down the glass

 

https://imageshack.com/i/p5PdEfraj

 

to the right, the sps was stung by those blasto colonies above so it died.

But to the left, we see the blue living margin marching on to colonization, this was a blue sps strain that actually was my worst invader lol

 

now this is live rock, made in the reefbowl:

https://imageshack.com/i/id90IpCDj

https://imageshack.com/i/ipuPCN41j

 

for the purposes of predicting and testing cycles and mini cycles and how to guarantee you won't have one, we can agree live rock loaded inside and out like this is the ideal test~

 

these are calcareous tubeworms that flourished over time dining on the intrinsic feeds within the tank as in nature and from good quality frozen feed mixes like cyclopeeze

 

 

how much algae do we see on rocks that were kept in the presence of imperfect nutrients for nearly a decade but where algae was once disallowed? zilch. how damaging has 35% peroxide been to my live rock benthics, the whole system now that we can see details, and by extension the bacterial balance of the system? none.

 

peroxide used correctly has no long term bad impacts, we are seeing the step by step disassembly of the most peroxide tested reef on the planet.

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I know you are going to get rid of those mushrooms. But I admit, the way they have grown around the curve of the vase like that looks pretty neat. :happy:

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WEIRDDDDD! I LOVE IT!

 

Im curious- does it smell at all? Just from the long since maintained DSB :)

 

Also, how large water changes do you do? Any supplemental dosing/foods?

 

Here are the photos (per your request)

wEB5Ed_zpsaz1np4a9.jpg

 

NLwbgu_zpsq75bbwog.jpg

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Harry thank you those are just right size, here's a description about the vase, and a fts from 2009 before aliens took over lol

 

 

http://www.nanoreefblog.com/features/pico-reefs/the-history-of-pico-reef-biology

 

I had about 16 kinds of established sps lps

 

the smell seems normal but I havent changed out dsb yet I expect it will be bad! I feed once a week and simply change water 100% an hour after, for 9 yrs. dosing is occasional two part, no auto topoff is used these are partially sealed systems. my salinity is more stable using no support gear than any sized home reef tank, if we turn down the air input a little for a vacation it will go 6 days no topoff .023-.024 which is a very acceptable slow increase for all but the most finicky starfish.

 

 

*in pics of old tanks, some of the param history in the details can be found at the water line interface. zoom in and look for algae areas if any. systems that teetered on eutrophication have the algae and cyano details here along the coral abutment

 

keeping this bright high energy area free of algae not by grazing but by simple nongrowth because corals out competed it remarks on the ion consistency of the surrounding water and the oligotrophic or eutrophic histories as well.

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Harry thank you those are just right size, here's a description about the vase, and a fts from 2009 before aliens took over lol

 

 

http://www.nanoreefblog.com/features/pico-reefs/the-history-of-pico-reef-biology

 

I had about 16 kinds of established sps lps

 

the smell seems normal but I havent changed out dsb yet I expect it will be bad! I feed once a week and simply change water 100% an hour after, for 9 yrs. dosing is occasional two part, no auto topoff is used these are partially sealed systems. my salinity is more stable using no support gear than any sized home reef tank at all.

 

I have some really nice sized vases of assorted shapes, extra small heater, air pump, etc- debating if I want to just set up something similar today! Also have both dry and live rock readily available in my house. mmmmmm

 

What light are you using? I have a old Par38, and also have a AquaIllumination Nano just sitting on a shelf for the last few months. Ill try to get a few pictures of Vase Options in a bit

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Fascinating to see the progression in this 9 year old vase. With such limited access making removal of a dominant speciese very difficult/impossible, it is understandable that a reset would be necessary.

 

Good luck on getting all those 'Shrooms removed as just the tiniest bit of tissue left over will quickly become a new polyp...then a lot more polyps :(

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thats true its alien flesh.

 

-majano wand-

Hidden secret for shroom erad

The electrolysis does kill the cells when well treated, agreed its no real catchup if flesh is left, I see algae battles using peroxide in the same way. Its the cell kill boost that edges out just manual removal w no cell kill

 

The problem was accessing them all in tank, they were wedged in places I could not get the wand, and the rule of pico reef longevity is taking total command over anything that tries to command your reef. So we come to the 100% full soak in white vinegar for five hours. The sps plating on the glass is currently the worst invader imo...total shading of all below, and only vinegar will remove it, acid etching!

 

Now this holding vat here is my pico reef hotel, with only a few controllable shrooms to zap

 

I'm not including much of the rock that was covered ill trade it in for frag cr.

 

So pleased. About 100 shrooms are stuck to the rock work and on the glass I've scraped most off now and rest will be melted with vinegar in about 5 mins

 

all the dark areas here are sps and coralline I once let spread onto glass and is obscuring the light passing to corals ive had in a vase since 2001.

https://imageshack.com/i/hlK095Ecj

 

https://imageshack.com/i/eyYdT26gj

 

And the ones left here I can literally chip off the sections and reimport no flesh. I'll never use corallimorphs again unless its those 200.00 ones lol feel free to take over jawbreaker mushrooms right

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it crossed my mind to just use new fiji pink sand and not even bother rinsing the old

 

it w have fresh new color, low work, and w run at least verified another 9. I think its no longer beneficial to keep old sandbed when a full sink change allows for renewed bioloading in the main tank as a strong 2.0 using same live rock base and some 9 yr old colonies of favites and blasto and duncan

 

it was no longer fun to have shrimp or crabs in the totally obscured reefbowl, a reopened aquascape is a refresher. the point of the switch is that it can be done with no recycle, by separating fine live rock from the previously undisturbed sandbed quickly, then either cleaning or replacing that bed and reusing rocks and coral. it is preserving the biosystems ability to process basic functions of a biome that used to be thought impossible by online posters, that a recycle couldn't be avoided. we knew in 2001 that wasn't the case w pico reefs.

 

I like the look of that hard earned shroom scape above, theres age detail and its interesting we find those as invaders they sure have a neat orange hue

 

this thorough acid cleaning and sandbed fix are per decade resets that make room for new calcification

 

one day even this chopped down version will be pressed into the glass again, this crowded bowl above is shown open and new in my old reefbowl vids and this amount of crowding is the result of new rock mass grown over the years

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Best of luck with the reboot and looking forward to many more years of the 'Reef in Vase' :)

 

Speaking of algae flourishing in an envionment lacking nutrients, here's an interesting read on Crater Lake in Oregon (that I visited last week) that you might find interesting:

 

http://www.craterlakeinstitute.com/natural-history/ecology-aquatic-ecosystems.htm

 

The lake is one of the clearest is considered 'hyper-oligotrophic'. Despite this, the primitive fauna (algae and moss) is relatively varied and quite abundant, extending down to 425 ft due to the exceptional water clarity. Although it is freshwater, comparisons can be made with pristine oceanic reef water in regards to the very low concentration of available nutrients and the ability of algae to thrive in such conditions.

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seabass   

Did you ever find that baby rock flower anemone that I sent you?

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seabass I did not, sure appreciate that tons though~

the best I can guess is it was stung by these reds. I had seen it fastened to the rock at one point but it was so tiny and motile I soon lost it in the mix

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seabass   

It could be alright. It might still be the size of a zoanthid. Plus, I'm not sure what color it was when I sent it (some turned bright green, while others turned out to be neutral in color). I've even found them hiding other other anemones before. Who knows, you might suddenly find it someday.

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andrewkw   

I can see why you did this, but why not trade / sell / give away the mushrooms instead of killing them?Also you never mention them but are these hydroids? They look like them http://imageshack.com/i/id90IpCDj I have them in my pico / display but they are very very slow to takeover, taking years to make any kind of progress so I just remove what I can and it keeps them at bay.

I wonder what this will look like in another 9 years... Good luck with everything look forward to continuing to follow the Vase..

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I did give away a rock with several on them back to the lfs, the only reds I burnt off were on the vase glass. its taking 24 hours of solid 5% vinegar to cut through all that sps, its 90% done I w be able to reassemble tonite. I have a few reds left on the incoming rocks that need to be melted, its just not any value to the lFS or locals to take the damaged ones after ive scraped them off, they are like majanos to many. the lfs got a good 50 or so on my trade in live rock, and i used that to offset price of a new bag of caribsea live sand. I could have easily rerinsed my old, but to save work i threw it out and am using a new round. Going bare bottom was an option but it looks strange in a reefbowl, the sand holds the rocks up to the globe area for clear viewing. since it was unimpactful i went ahead and used sand again.

 

 

Hey that pic didn't come through can you repost

 

The tubes i had posted on the live rock I guessed were fanworms that retract, perhaps there are hydoids that have little red and brown fans that retract as well thats no surprise regarding marine diversity if so. mine were abutted up against my blastos and didnt sting them, and the tubes are easily broken off and seemed calcified like the lr fanworms but who knows I appreciate any ID of benthic filter feeders

 

was able to have pods and more micro brittle stars and some limpets xfer over into the holding container as reseeds for the new tank, what Ill do differently is no more sps on the glass this round.

 

Id really wanted to find a new same vase and use new glass, we aren't sure how hobby thin glass holds up to constant reef lighting for a decade but I guess another round is upcoming, couldnt find a new vase so i am just burning mine clean.

the last sps is melting off the glass should be ready by lunch

 

5 pm yesterday

https://imageshack.com/i/hlK095Ecj

 

1230 today nearly dissolved sps masses

https://imageshack.com/i/p50HJBQoj

 

how benthic life reveals cycling details:

 

these are fanworm crowns off the lr that are opened soon after I put the bowl back together all clean

 

https://imageshack.com/i/p8lMz6eXj

they do not open when free ammonia or any other insult is present. Each day these and many others are opened is a day you know nothing died from this transfer even though it was corals sitting in a still container. a trip home from the pet store with purple live rock is much easier on lr than what I just did in the thread yet benthic life that only open in acceptable params came out fast. we would watch them another few days to ensure no dead worms etc

 

these benthic organisms are the indicator of success or fail, but the actual action taken to ensure no cycle was a quick xfer of corals and lr to a holding vat that has no rotten nutrient stores. that was in the sandbed, all the ammonia production capability was in the sandbed not the rock, so i tossed the bed and started fresh. moving the rocks and corals back in isn't lethal, so nothing has died.

 

when you pair benthic assessment with coral polyp opening and consistency and feeding responses you can gauge free ammonia levels in an amazing and predictable manner. if you control your organics and know their location and isolate them, you will not get free ammonia. This is so reliable that I've never owned or needed an ammonia test kit from any brand name since I started keeping reefs. in learning the biology method I simply took samples to the pet store, which coincidentally was the first time I learned .25 on most api test kits mean zero.

 

You can tell alot about cycling stages and levels off pics.

 

 

Here's the final clean shot, no cycle, ready for another decade zero livestock loss.

 

https://imageshack.com/i/eyEcyMqfj

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thanks man!! That is neat to see without a link. its suprising how much diversity those mushrooms killed but ive saved for certain future production:

 

14 yr continual blasto from reefbowl 1 2001 (it brought the gelidium into this reefbowl here but peroxide fixed)

5 yr red brain

a tiny tiny nub of duncan from 2009

The live rock but used less and traded some in, open scape this round.

 

 

and I'll get some new frags to add.

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Brandon that looks great mate!

 

Are you going to start a tank journal dedicated to this one now?

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thanks for checking out the vcleanup J

 

I decided my progression is too slow it would be boring lol

Need to find another hosting site other than imageshack for some reason nr won't let me make the posts so Harry was nice to help

 

that brain coral used to cover that whole rock, we can chart the regrowth here ill update annually again and I predict in two years we will have it back full, time w tell~

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Nice! Now we can all see how this progresses (because we can see into it) :)

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It was just a huge eyepatch blackout I'm so glad maritza the vase reef pumped me up to get it cleaned and not procrastinate further lol I was getting secretly urged to act and thats good to kick into gear.

 

I had got to not liking it very much but now won't mind getting this brain and blastos and a couple acans I have my eye on as a very low key low maintenance decade cruiser, I want to catch up to Pauls old tank lol

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A pico reef is cleaned and restarted. Big story?

 

Yes, it is.

 

This vase was the first pico reef I have ever heard from. Up to that point, every expert hold the opinion that reef-keeping requires a huge water quantity and a big motor pool of equipment. Brandon proved, that they were all wrong. The story behind the story is, that there are so many people who put ones foot down, because they never tried something new. Of course experience of experts can save from beginners mistakes... but on the other hand there have to be some people breaking rules in order to bring the hobby forward. And Brandon broke rules, and his reef was noticed all over the world. I guess, this reef is the origin of the hole marine nano hype, leading on to that forum, leading on to thousands of picos and our scene of nano reefers.

Cleaning up this reef is not the end of it, but- in some way- an era comes to an end.

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I want to catch up to Pauls old tank lol

 

Anything's possible :)

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A pico reef is cleaned and restarted. Big story?

 

Yes, it is.

 

This vase was the first pico reef I have ever heard from. Up to that point, every expert hold the opinion that reef-keeping requires a huge water quantity and a big motor pool of equipment. Brandon proved, that they were all wrong. The story behind the story is, that there are so many people who put ones foot down, because they never tried something new. Of course experience of experts can save from beginners mistakes... but on the other hand there have to be some people breaking rules in order to bring the hobby forward. And Brandon broke rules, and his reef was noticed all over the world. I guess, this reef is the origin of the hole marine nano hype, leading on to that forum, leading on to thousands of picos and our scene of nano reefers.

Cleaning up this reef is not the end of it, but- in some way- an era comes to an end.

 

I remember seeing this tiny vase seven years ago and routing for it to succeeed long term...and here it still is :)

 

Certainly one of the best examples of the power of using natural physical and biological processes to maintain a relatively large biomass in relation to a small volume of water for an extended period of time. Bravo!

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