Drift Monkey's ADA 60-P (Rebooted!)

[RollaJase]

Cheap car, expensive tank!

 

I've got it all wrong!!!

[brad908]

If you're gonna throw away your money on depreciating assets, it might as well be a bad ass aquarium.

[RollaJase]

Amen brother.

[Drift Monkey]

Nice to see you have returned.

 

Be careful in that phosphate thread, I'm not sure I still agree with everything I thought at the time, but it was an interesting thread.

 

Can you repost any pics of your old pico? The links don't work anymore.

 

I like the scape.

 

Following along for the build / restart.

 

OOoh on the quick vac, I could use that for my sump.

 

Nothing to worry about there, I was just unaware of a thread of that nature existing on N-R. It was good to see the TRT guys on here, even though I was late to the party. Reading some of their stuff whilst planning my rebuild was actually quite instrumental. What they're saying is correct though (especially on a scientific level)...but cut through the arguments from both sides and it still boils down to nutrients in, nutrients out. I just happen to agree that detritus removal before eventual breakdown is the most efficient, cost effective means of keeping nutrients low in any given system. I've had my bouts with being fooled by the "sand experts" as well (see my previous thoughts on how keeping a "cryptic sump" would be beneficial ), but I now realize anything else I add to the system I already have is basically a bandaid and more unneeded cost/upkeep. Dedicated husbandry still trumps band-aid fixes. Besides, I'd rather spend money on corals than expensive equipment/upkeep methods.Thus, I arrived at the conclusion of keeping it as simple as possible.

 

If you have any thoughts on phosphate, I'd love to hear them and possibly clear up what was trying to be argued in the thread.

 

 

I'll dig up more pics of my pico for you if you'd like. I'm surprised you remembered it...I didn't think it was anything special, although I did learn quite a bit from keeping it.

 

The scape has actually changed yet again. I didn't like how unstable the rocks were and it really hindered me from siphoning when I constantly had to be weary of disturbing the rock, so it got redone in a more stable fashion. I actually removed a couple of rocks from the dt and chucked them in the sump...this actually allowed me to push the rock structures a bit closer together, leaving the ends/middle a little more open for the quick vac/siphoning. Everything collects nicely below the MP10 for easy removal...so that's nice. I'll snap a pic of the new scape soon!

 

Thanks for following!

 

The quick vac has been a nice tool for junk removal. Funny thing is, after I siphoned all the sand/tiny rubble up last wc, I shook off more loose sand/tiny pieces of rubble during my rescape...leaving me in a similar predicament.

 

I never thought of one for the sump...stop tempting me to spend money I don't have haha!.

 

It works too!

 

Cheap car, expensive tank!

 

Ah, the money pits we collect...

 

I've got it all wrong!!!

 

You seem to have both!

 

If you're gonna throw away your money on depreciating assets, it might as well be a bad ass aquarium.

 

Agreed!

[Jay Wee]

Glad your rebooting. 2nd time is always the best. i recently rebooted and downgraded to a smaller tank. Are you keeping it Bare Bottom? Think you should! Looks amazing. And having the maxspect lights bounce off the bottom glass will look really nice.

 

How's that eheim vac? I almost purchased the eheim vac but really didn't wanna drop $60 on it so I'm thinking of the $10 TOM's vac.

[Drift Monkey]

Glad your rebooting. 2nd time is always the best. i recently rebooted and downgraded to a smaller tank. Are you keeping it Bare Bottom? Think you should! Looks amazing. And having the maxspect lights bounce off the bottom glass will look really nice.

 

How's that eheim vac? I almost purchased the eheim vac but really didn't wanna drop $60 on it so I'm thinking of the $10 TOM's vac.

 

Glad I'm rebooting too, thanks! Yup, it's staying bare bottom! Thanks for the compliment! I'm still diggin' the Razor, it's still going strong and hasn't missed a beat. I'll I've done is revise the timer settings and blue/white channels and I think I have it where I want it now.

 

The vac is pretty good...but I'll def agree it is a bit pricey. I ended up getting it off Amazon for about $50 shipped. It does work well though, it does what I need it to do, so I can't complain. The impeller it uses is run by a magnet (much like some internal filters) which prevents the motor from getting burnt out when stuff gets stuck...pretty cool design.

 

The Tom's vac is decent from what I've read, I've never used it so I couldn't compare them for ya. I'm kinda an Eheim fan though (return pump, canister for my planted shrimp tank, and now this).

 

I'll have to take a peek at your "downgraded" tank when I get a chance!

[markalot]

I've always enjoyed looking at Picos and the things that get crammed into such a small space. Nano tank talent still amazes me, I see people fitting more corals in a 20 gallon than I can fit in my 150, and it still looks nice.

 

I just hit a big phosphate bump in my 150 that browned all my SPS so I am re-evaluating what I thought to be true. I never had measurable phosphates in my 40 breeder using the same sand (type, 150 sand was all new) and a crappy skimmer but bigger water changes. Obviously I have an export problem that I need to work out. I believe in what the TRT guys say for the most part, except for Greg and his stance on refugiums. I don't like the attitude either, but that thread turned into something worthwhile.

 

I am still on the fence about what I would call passive vs active export. Passive being something that can stand some neglect and still work (like a refugium) while active is much more efficient but will not work if neglected. It seems to me the longest lived tanks always have some method of passive export along with other means of export.

[Drift Monkey]

I've always enjoyed looking at Picos and the things that get crammed into such a small space. Nano tank talent still amazes me, I see people fitting more corals in a 20 gallon than I can fit in my 150, and it still looks nice.

 

I just hit a big phosphate bump in my 150 that browned all my SPS so I am re-evaluating what I thought to be true. I never had measurable phosphates in my 40 breeder using the same sand (type, 150 sand was all new) and a crappy skimmer but bigger water changes. Obviously I have an export problem that I need to work out. I believe in what the TRT guys say for the most part, except for Greg and his stance on refugiums. I don't like the attitude either, but that thread turned into something worthwhile.

 

I am still on the fence about what I would call passive vs active export. Passive being something that can stand some neglect and still work (like a refugium) while active is much more efficient but will not work if neglected. It seems to me the longest lived tanks always have some method of passive export along with other means of export.

 

Mine didn't get properly "filled" I would say...but I'd love to revisit them at some point on a very simple level. Biggest problem with picos is evap. I guess I kinda do have a pico right now, now that I think of it. I have a jar on my desk right now with some life in it!

 

"Measurable" phosphates is a tricky topic to begin with, but suffice it to say, unfortunately we don't have the means necessary to test them with any discernable accuracy (yet). You def have an excessive phosphate issue if our hobby kits can pick it up, but the best way to check for phosphates is by using algae as a biomarker. If you have an excess amount, it's safe to say you have a phosphate issue. This could be from any number of issues...detritus hiding in the sand from over feeding, detritus build up under/between the rocks, in the sump, etc. You're on the right track with more aggressive water changes, but honestly, a nice skimmer goes a hell of a long way in those larger systems. I'll have to check out your 150 thread to get a better feel!

 

I don't think the all the TRT guys absolutely HATE refugiums, but they see it as inefficient (and lazy) way to deal with the more obvious solution of detritus removal. Many of them agree that it will and def can work on systems where our desired biotope animals require or thrive in higher phosphate concentrations, but then again it boils down to what type of environment you are trying to replicate. From what I gather, they are less "anti-fuge/algae" than they are about keeping the proper biotope environment for our inhabitants. The attitude part comes from being a bit defensive as they were not on their "home" forum...they certainly don't seem to come off like this on TRT. To be fair, with so many people in that thread blindly holding on to their refugium ideas without knowing why/how they work or don't work, and straw man arguments (hell, or just throwing out insults)...I'd eventually get frustrated too!

 

I'll agree...but I will add that personally, I feel proper husbandry is the way to go. It doesn't take much neglect for either type of system to start going bad, but keeping a fuge will not delay the inevitable forever. This similar to how DSB/huge amount of LR systems seemingly can last quite a while, but are a "ticking time bomb" of sorts due to how efficient calcium carbonate is at binding phosphate. Hell, the chaeto in my fuge was never able to keep up with the algal infestation that happened in my dt after my RBTA died, although this isn't exactly the best example.

 

The "passive" export system is more likely your LR/sand binding up phosphates. These phosphate "sinks" can house a ton of phosphate over time...all the while the stewart thinks he's fine with being lazy and letting gunk collect, because hey, everything looks fine. Don't get me wrong, this method can and does work, but for someone in it for the long haul...it likely won't. Considering many people don't even keep their setups for that long...it can absolutely work! Combine that with the fact that algae isn't terribly efficient at even binding phosphate and you get the wrong tool for the job. Why even attempt to band-aid when direct removal/wc is staring you in the face? Hence, my mantra - keep it simple!

[markalot]

I have no algae in the display and my Tangs and Foxface are hungry. It's an odd thing having a big tank and it may be I would have a huge issue in a smaller tank but I can't see it. The issue literally slapped me in the face.

 

I was developing great color then my KH started to rise while I was increasing my Kalk saturation. This was expected so I backed off dosing by 50% but KH continued to rise. I didn't want to overreact so I backed of dosing another 50% and it still rose, so I turned off the doser and it still rose, so I poured straight RO/DI into my topoff container to dilute the Kalk and it finally stopped rising at 10.5 KH, up from 8.5 just a week earlier.

 

I experienced rapid browning of corals, some burnt tips on one coral, stn on other corals. Slowly KH fell and I resumed a standard Kalk saturation (2tsp / gallon RODI) and it stabilized at 8 and has been holding steady. At some point while it was falling i decided to test Nitrates and Phosphates and there is was, .2 PO4 using the Salifert high resolution technique. Not only that but Nitrates were at 15!

 

I'm still not sure what happened. It would be easy to suspect phosphates rose to the point that calcification slowed or stopped, which caused the sudden rise in KH, but I have no way to prove that. I also doubt that over the course of just one week, in 150 gallons of water, phosphates suddenly hit some magic number that put a halt to all SPS growth.

 

This was taken days before the incident, and it completely browned in 2 days and I thought I might lose it.

 

Something really bad happened really fast. Did that something cause the PO4 to spike and what the heck was it?

 

I try to comment on the most mundane things in my threads that make them boring as hell but perhaps there is some nugget of info that might give me a clue.

[Drift Monkey]

I have no algae in the display and my Tangs and Foxface are hungry. It's an odd thing having a big tank and it may be I would have a huge issue in a smaller tank but I can't see it. The issue literally slapped me in the face.

 

I was developing great color then my KH started to rise while I was increasing my Kalk saturation. This was expected so I backed off dosing by 50% but KH continued to rise. I didn't want to overreact so I backed of dosing another 50% and it still rose, so I turned off the doser and it still rose, so I poured straight RO/DI into my topoff container to dilute the Kalk and it finally stopped rising at 10.5 KH, up from 8.5 just a week earlier.

 

I experienced rapid browning of corals, some burnt tips on one coral, stn on other corals. Slowly KH fell and I resumed a standard Kalk saturation (2tsp / gallon RODI) and it stabilized at 8 and has been holding steady. At some point while it was falling i decided to test Nitrates and Phosphates and there is was, .2 PO4 using the Salifert high resolution technique. Not only that but Nitrates were at 15!

 

I'm still not sure what happened. It would be easy to suspect phosphates rose to the point that calcification slowed or stopped, which caused the sudden rise in KH, but I have no way to prove that. I also doubt that over the course of just one week, in 150 gallons of water, phosphates suddenly hit some magic number that put a halt to all SPS growth.

 

This was taken days before the incident, and it completely browned in 2 days and I thought I might lose it.

 

Something really bad happened really fast. Did that something cause the PO4 to spike and what the heck was it?

 

I try to comment on the most mundane things in my threads that make them boring as hell but perhaps there is some nugget of info that might give me a clue.

 

The herbivores might have been masking the algae problem...leaving you with no visible sign of increasing PO4. In a tank that large, it might have been creeping up for a while without you knowing it. How often do you clean the sand btw?

 

Nitrates likely aren't the issue there...I'm thinking the large KH (and corresponding pH) swing made the SPS more unhappy than anything. Careful with your carbon dosing too...there are some pitfalls with that method as well.

 

Nice skimmer btw.

[pj86]

Hey Drift Monkey, it has been a while. Nice to see you are rebooting the ADA-60P. Looks clean and sleek. What are your plans in the long run? SPS?

[Drift Monkey]

Hey Drift Monkey, it has been a while. Nice to see you are rebooting the ADA-60P. Looks clean and sleek. What are your plans in the long run? SPS?

 

It's been a while PJ, glad to see you're ok (and moving back to Austin!). Thanks, she'll be even more minimalistic this go around. Plans (right now anyway) are to maybe try my hand at keeping a lower nutrient system with mainly SPS. Other inverts (crustaceans) will be also included...simply because I can't resist 'em.

[Drift Monkey]

Something I recently ordered came in on Wednesday. I figured I may as well get baseline measurements from my current water and impending freshly mixed wc saltwater. Hopefully they aren't too far off...it's all the same Reef Crystals after all. I ordered some CR2032 button batteries for my TDS meter too since it was complaining about being low on juice and I can't have that!

 

 

 

Anyway, new scape pics:

 

 

I feel like the color rendition of the lighting was probably the most accurate in this one...the rest are more blue than in real life. Phone/tablet pics...what you gonna do. I have an cheap DSLR I probably need to bust out.

 

 

Less rock.

 

 

I don't know if it comes through in pictures, but I was trying to create somewhat of a "trench" in the middle to help give it little (tiny) bit of perspective/depth.

 

The left structure kinda reminds me of my old (pre-reboot) scape's shape and feel while attempting to use some of the vertical space to my advantage. It's very stable too...I can bump it and it won't fall apart. I think SPS would look cool growing off of it. I like the shadow cast by the top rock too, but wonder if it'll have any use.

 

The right side is a relatively flat, broad structure that would bring a different type of aesthetic/way of mounting corals. I'm thinking zoas and such along the bottom sections of either rock and SPS up top. This one I made stable too...I can slide either structure around relatively easy during cleaning, so that's a plus.

 

I kept ample open space between the rocks and the tank glass...hopefully this keeps build-up easy to spot/vac/siphon. There is also pretty minimal contact with the rock and the bottom too, allowing water to freely move around every rock. As you can see, debris collects pretty neatly on the right side under the vortech. Keeping this tank low nutrient and mainly stocked with highly photosynthetic animals is the game plan.

[brad908]

looks good. miss my 60p

[Jay Wee]

Dude how you make that rock on the left defy gravity and stand up like that.

[Drift Monkey]

looks good. miss my 60p

 

Thanks. You essentially have a much deeper slightly taller version now yourself! Liking it?

 

Dude how you make that rock on the left defy gravity and stand up like that.

 

 

Yeah the rock structure is actually unchanged from the previous scape, I just removed the third rock that was also on the bottom to clean it up some. It was never weight bearing to begin with...so I just took it out. Looks better without it and it's an interesting effect (I think so anyway).

 

The trick is, the bottom rock sort of comes to a point towards the back and the top rock has a big hole/crater in it that sort hooks on the the bottom rock. It's pretty damn solid too - all without glue!

[brad908]

Thanks. You essentially have a much deeper slightly taller version now yourself! Liking it?

 

I love the 4" of extra width mine offers. But the 60p had so many memories and transformations haha

[Drift Monkey]

Another new toy came in the other day...it's too pretty not to take a couple shots of...

 

 

The Vertex Aquaristik Cleaner-Mag Duplex. Who names this stuff?

 

 

Shiny.

 

 

The little "Vertex" etching on the outside magnet was a nice subtle touch. These things are beautiful!

 

I misplaced my nimble nano super (it's around here somewhere! ) so I decided I needed a replacement. I think I like this thing a bit better (it squeezes between my overflow box and right plane very easily ). Nothing wrong with the nimble though, that thing has served me well for multiple years (and on multiple tanks).

[Drift Monkey]

Some weird results with the Read Sea test kits...the Ca and Mg seem ok...but my alk is apparently too low for the test to measure? I'm measuring freshly mixed saltwater (1.025 sg).

 

Mg - 1200-1220 ppm

kH - too low for titration test?

Ca - 380-390 ppm

 

When I titrate the alk solution, I've barely use any titrant (.27-.28 ml) before I see the color change from blue to purplish, to redish. The minimum testable level uses .38 ml of titrant for a reading of 1.9 Meq/l or 5.5 dKH.

 

But, if I'm doing the math right (0.01 ml titant = 0.05 meq/L or .14 dKH), the test result has the water sitting at 1.35 neq/L or 3.78 dKH? Dafuq? I tested the pH for fun too and it registered at a normal 8.4.

 

Edit: Stranger still, I just did a test of my tank water and am getting a reading of 2.15 meq/l or 6.02 dKH.

[Jay Wee]

Seeing your tank really makes me want to go ADA style but i'm thinking MAME overflow. OMG I just setup my Nano and already thinking of changing. BTW, hows that IKEA stand holding up?

[Drift Monkey]

Seeing your tank really makes me want to go ADA style but i'm thinking MAME overflow. OMG I just setup my Nano and already thinking of changing. BTW, hows that IKEA stand holding up?

 

The MAME is awesome...but in the end I felt it was too expensive and the box I have moves more water.

 

The IKEA stand is still...standing.

[RollaJase]

Did you figure out what was wrong with your Alk? Those titration tests are tricky to get right but once you know how to do it you should be all goo. The Red Sea youtube channel has great step by step videos for all of the titration tests.

[Drift Monkey]

Did you figure out what was wrong with your Alk? Those titration tests are tricky to get right but once you know how to do it you should be all goo. The Red Sea youtube channel has great step by step videos for all of the titration tests.

 

Followed the titration videos to a T several times to get those results, so I doubt that's it. I've stopped caring about it for now....just been letting my rock purge. Stuff is still coming off the rocks...been vacuuming and changing 4 gallons out a week since I've had it back up and running.