THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[atoll]

My post wasn't aimed at you but I have to admit it did remind me and prompted me to write it as I have seen so many other posts along the lines of I bought a tank with XYZ filtration and want to keep whatever. The questions then follow along the lines of "can I keep" or "is it good enough" etc. Other issues then follow like "I can't fit a skimmer in my tank" or "I wish I had bought a tank with a sump etc etc",

 

I am sure you do indeed have a plan. Some systems can grow with you while others you just have to bin and start again depending on what changes in the animals you wish to keep. Upgrading of aquariums is very common of course and we don't always start off in a hobby knowing we will want to upgrade at some point.

Thanks for the additional details!

 

I think the second method you describe is something I'd prefer since I'd like to keep the display relatively minimal. A reactor and/or skimmer of sorts could work well for me...but I don't like the idea of "over-cleaning" on reef tanks. As you mentioned before...these methods can potentially strip out nutrients needed by the inhabitants...though I am sure observing and recording these parameters would minimize this risk. I think the real key may lie in the quality of live rock we select. I'll admit I've never started with really nice, established, "premium" rock, uncured or otherwise. I think I'll ditch my idea of dry rock seeding and start off with some high quality, established live rock for my next setup.

 

I'm also interested in your thoughts on macro as a means of nutrient export when weighed against the Berlin Method. I understand macroalgae has the capacity to absorb just about everything including PO4 (I have a bit of planted tank background as well), so they should be beneficial...but I'm just not sure what to think when it comes to a quality live rock vs marco fuge type of setup. Marcos work at a much slower rate from what I understand...but I have read of cases where only marco was used in a fuge with very good results. In my own personal experience with fuges/marcos...they didn't help much at all, and my macros eventually dissolved completely...sending the absorbed nutrients back into my system...not fun. I would be willing to give it another go though...as you said, every setup is different and will respond differently to different methods.

 

So perhaps a combination of live rock, marcos, and supplementary mech/chem/skim filtration would be more ideal in the long run. Of course, this adds to the complexity a bit...but I'm not necessarily opposed to that. A little periodic marco trimming and filter changing wouldn't kill me.

 

As far as a substrate is concerned, again there are many thoughts on selection. Personally, I am leaning towards using a minimal amount of crushed coral (the Caribsea Florida variety). I think I'm convinced that a low depth and larger grain size will discourage detritus from collecting while giving a large amount of surface area for aerobic bacteria to grow. Many don't like the look of this though, but the benefits seem to outweigh the aesthetics for me on this one. It should be easier to work with (and thus clean) as well and not get blown around quite as easily.

 

As for DSBs, I've done a bit of research on them in the past and was not personally convinced it would be viable in our nano reefs. If anything, they eventually lead to a noxious, detritus filled sand environment, which when disturbed could release what would amount to hydrogen sulfide bomb. Not worth the trouble or risk for me.

 

Your practical advice is great, and seems to be just about standard of what most of us follow on here. Testing water is certainly a key we should all use to determine how to cope with imbalances, etc.

 

Regarding the "berlin/cryptic" idea...yes, my idea was a dark zone that would encompass most of the fuge. It was just semantics. I'll probably stay away from cryptic filtration methods for now though...but perhaps I'll revisit it someday when I have the capital to fund such an experiment.

 

A totally natural system (minimal chemical filtration/without a skimmer) seems more appealing to me in theory, I'll admit. Along those lines...how about selecting creatures that tolerate, or even prefer a higher nutrient environment (akin to a lagoon) and attempting to recreate this environment? In theory, this should lead to a "less maintenance (semantics)" system, correct? Less chemical/skimming requirements? Of course, this would certainly limit the variety of inhabitants included (likely to just softies, maybe some lps), but an interesting thought I've had over the years.

 

As to your last paragraph...I totally agree. I'm guilty of this myself. My previous setups have ranged from simple to complex, and IME the simpler ones seem to to be longer lasting. I plan to utilize as much automation as I can afford with my next build. This in turn, I believe, should help me quite a bit in my endeavors.

 

This discussion has certainly has helped clear my mind quite a bit, and I think I have a bit more direction in terms of what methodologies to keep in mind regarding my next tank. Thanks again Albert (not Alan)!

 

 

Agreed completely. Don't get me wrong though, I have a plan in mind as far as inhabitants go, and I am functioning under the pretext that this is "nano-reef" and not "nano-fishonly". I'd say a vast majority of us on here are here namely for the corals.

 

It was simply a few questions regarding filtration methods in general which I scaled down to a method that might work for me and what I have planned (provided in my previous posts - I don't blame you if you didn't read my nearly-book-long posts in this thread though).

[Paul.b]

Thank you! I would love to learn more about them and their requirements. That is a creature that I would like to own when I have my own place, one that I'm not going to move out of in say a year. A place in time where my life is stable so that its life can be, too. As for what it wants for Christmas? a new rock to slither over (if I were to get the dragon pipefish since I briefly glimpsed somewhere earlier that they don't swim that much) or maybe some extra special pods (or something of the sort) to eat? I really am just guessing here.

They swim about as well as Paris Hiltons dog. In other words, they don't swim at all. I don't even know if they know how to swim.

 

Albert, now I need one of those red pipefish. I should have a Janss pipefish in a few days, I hope.

[albertthiel]

 

They swim about as well as Paris Hiltons dog. In other words, they don't swim at all. I don't even know if they know how to swim.

 

Albert, now I need one of those red pipefish. I should have a Janss pipefish in a few days, I hope.

 

Yes that red one is something else indeed but not sure they are available in the Trade given that they are rare as was pointed out in the Video but then who knows, they may be around ... very small though ...

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Thanks for the additional details!

 

I think the second method you describe is something I'd prefer since I'd like to keep the display relatively minimal. A reactor and/or skimmer of sorts could work well for me...but I don't like the idea of "over-cleaning" on reef tanks. As you mentioned before...these methods can potentially strip out nutrients needed by the inhabitants...though I am sure observing and recording these parameters would minimize this risk. I think the real key may lie in the quality of live rock we select. I'll admit I've never started with really nice, established, "premium" rock, uncured or otherwise. I think I'll ditch my idea of dry rock seeding and start off with some high quality, established live rock for my next setup.

 

I'm also interested in your thoughts on macro as a means of nutrient export when weighed against the Berlin Method. I understand macroalgae has the capacity to absorb just about everything including PO4 (I have a bit of planted tank background as well), so they should be beneficial...but I'm just not sure what to think when it comes to a quality live rock vs marco fuge type of setup. Marcos work at a much slower rate from what I understand...but I have read of cases where only marco was used in a fuge with very good results. In my own personal experience with fuges/marcos...they didn't help much at all, and my macros eventually dissolved completely...sending the absorbed nutrients back into my system and leaving me with a mess to clean up...not fun. I'm not thoroughly convinced that they are an efficient means of nutrient export (especially compared to some sort of bacterial solution, perhaps that live within live rock?), but I would be willing to give it another go though. As you said, every setup is different and will respond differently to different methods.

 

So perhaps a combination of live rock, marcos, and supplementary mech/chem/skim filtration would be more ideal in the long run. Of course, this adds to the complexity a bit...but I'm not necessarily opposed to that. I'm a bit of a minimalist at heart (I run my planted tanks this way), but a little periodic marco trimming and filter changing wouldn't kill me. I just know the easier and more accessible I make it, the more success I'll have tong term.

 

As far as a substrate is concerned, again there are many thoughts on selection. Personally, I am leaning towards using a minimal amount of crushed coral (the Caribsea Florida variety). I think I'm convinced that a low depth and larger grain size will discourage detritus from collecting while giving a large amount of surface area for aerobic bacteria to grow. Many don't like the look of this though, but the benefits seem to outweigh the aesthetics for me on this one. It should be easier to work with (and thus clean) as well and not get blown around quite as easily.

 

As for DSBs, I've done a bit of research on them in the past and was not personally convinced it would be viable in our nano reefs. If anything, they eventually lead to a noxious, detritus filled sand environment, which when disturbed could release what would amount to hydrogen sulfide bomb. Not worth the trouble or risk for me, although the Jaubert system is quite interesting.

 

Your practical advice is great, and seems to be just about standard of what most of us follow on here. Testing water is certainly a key we should all use to determine how to cope with imbalances, etc.

 

Regarding the "berlin/cryptic" idea...yes, my idea was a dark zone that would encompass most of the fuge. It was just semantics. I'll probably stay away from cryptic filtration methods for now though...but perhaps I'll revisit it someday when I have the capital to fund such an experiment.

 

A totally natural system (minimal chemical filtration/without a skimmer) seems more appealing to me in theory, I'll admit. Along those lines...how about selecting creatures that tolerate, or even prefer a higher nutrient environment (akin to a lagoon) and attempting to recreate this environment? In theory, this should lead to a "less maintenance (semantics)" system, correct? Less chemical/skimming requirements? Of course, this would certainly limit the variety of inhabitants included (likely to just softies, maybe some lps), but an interesting thought I've had over the years.

 

As to your last paragraph...I totally agree. I'm guilty of this myself. My previous setups have ranged from simple to complex, and IME the simpler ones seem to to be longer lasting. I plan to utilize as much automation as I can afford with my next build. This in turn, I believe, should help me quite a bit in my endeavors.

 

This discussion has certainly has helped clear my mind quite a bit, and I think I have a bit more direction in terms of what methodologies to keep in mind regarding my next tank. Thanks again Albert (not Alan)!

 

 

Agreed completely. Don't get me wrong though, I have a plan in mind as far as inhabitants go, and I am functioning under the pretext that this is "nano-reef" and not "nano-fishonly". I'd say a vast majority of us on here are here namely for the corals.

 

It was simply a few questions regarding filtration methods in general which I scaled down to a method that might work for me and what I have planned (provided in my previous posts - I don't blame you if you didn't read my nearly-book-long posts in this thread though haha).

 

Drift Monkey ... here are some quick answers to the points you bring up ... I have to take care of packing books, sign them and dedicate some and then go to the post office to sent out the books and some Critter Torches ...

 

On the rock : a good quality will do the job for you so whether or not you want to buy premium (whatever the real definition of that is) may not be necessary. I just used cured Totoka rock and some live sand and that worked just fine for me. My book has a large number of pages on all the rock varieties ... may you want to get the e-Version to start with so you can read up on all of them as there are so many different types and dealing with them is clearly explained. But again all you need IMO is some good quality cured rock and go from there. Add some live sand and let the tank cycle and you are ready to add whatever it is you decided on ...

 

On Macro-Algae : yes they export nutrients and will uptake phosphates for sure. Given that you provide them with the right kind of light they should not die off on you but will grown and will indeed need trimming on a regular basis. IMO placing them in the sump is best but you can add some of them in the DT as well ... just not Caulerpa IMO as it grows too fast and in all directions and needs too much work to keep it under control and you are looking for minimal maintenance so I would use different types ... 6500 K light over the fuge should give you good and continuous growth and no die-off IME ... Trim as I said when necessary.

 

Set them up in a fuge as part of the sump or as a fuge separate from the sump and add live rock to it and some live sand and put some CUC's in there too, and if you add pods to the fuge they can multiply in there and will provide a supply of food for your fish and some corals that can trap them.

 

Yes on the adding mech and chemical filtration, as that will certainly help in keeping the water quality up ... all of it works together and helps you with a better environment for your life forms. Want to leave chem filtration out ? You can, you will just need more water changes IME, based on the testing you do and what they show for the nutrient levels.

 

Add a skimmer ... that is device I would not leave out unless you have a real small tank substitute the effect and benefit of the skimmer by adjusting how much water you change and how often.

 

A low depth of sand if indeed a good idea ... see previous post for the suggested depths.

 

Do not use too coarse substrate as that will allow detritus to work its way into it ... not too fine either as that packs too much, and can lead to issues with anaerobic activity if it is a little too large (high) ... The medium sized grain is probably the better one to go with. At least in my experience.

 

Note that the larger the grain size the less surface area for bacterial growth you have, medium will offer a lot more area,. and fine of course even more but fine is not recommended due to the packing effect ... so medium size is what I would go with as I said.

 

I would not get into DSB's for a Nano .. IMO not a good idea and you pointed some of the issue out.

 

Yes dispense with the cryptic fuge and run just a regular one .. .much easier to maintain too.

 

And as you say ... depending on what life forms you add, some of the water purification and nutrient export will happen as well and can indeed reduce required maintenance ...

 

Now if as you say you want a more natural system ... min. chem filtration and no skimmer .. then a lot of what we have been writing about can be disregarded. You can certainly start your tank up that way and if things do not work out the way you want, you can always add chem filtration and even the skimmer ...

 

Hopefully this gives you some more ideas and a perspective on how you can set your Reef up ... if anything is still unclear let me know ...

 

Thanks

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Mandarin Fish are not Gobies even though there are often referred to it that way, they are Dragonets

 

An article on care and characteristics

 

Link :

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-09/fish/index.php

 

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

Yes that red one is something else indeed but not sure they are available in the Trade given that they are rare as was pointed out in the Video but then who knows, they may be around ... very small though ...

 

Albert

Maybe so, but you got to admit, they are really cool.

This year I think I will be diving on some of the outer Hawaiian Islands but they are not found there. Not that they would let me take one home. The last time I dove in Hawaii (40 years ago) I just collected rock and carried it home on my lap. Now you can't even put your lap on your lap.

[albertthiel]

Maybe so, but you got to admit, they are really cool.

This year I think I will be diving on some of the outer Hawaiian Islands but they are not found there. Not that they would let me take one home. The last time I dove in Hawaii (40 years ago) I just collected rock and carried it home on my lap. Now you can't even put your lap on your lap.

 

Yes cool they are for sure ... and as say not around Hawaii ... and I think that nowadays you can't even NSW from there :-o let alone fish or rock who knows maybe even empty seashells and not a wet diving suit either :-o Tough they are there nowadays for sure

 

But ... yes, that is a "great" looking fish indeed.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

An Introduction to Refugiums

 

This is an article by Quality Marine ...

 

Link :

 

http://www.qualitymarine.com/News/Feature-Articles/Intro-to-Refugium-Algae-(04/22/12)

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

If anyone is thinking about getting a green moray I have a story about one I encountered.

I was diving in Mexico once and the guy in front of me pointed to this huge green moray eel. He was in a Volkswagon size rock and his head was sticking out of one end and his tail was sticking out the other end so I estimate the thing to be 8 or 10' long.

I pointed it out to the genius behind me in case he wanted to take a picture, but I didn't think he wanted to take a picture of himself tickling the eel under his chin like

Cousteau used to do. So the eel, who probably never met Mr. Cousteau, takes this guys entire hand into his mouth, halfway up to his elbow and he is shaking him violently.

I was watching and hoping the eel would eat him completely so I could get on with my dive and make believe I never saw the guy. But at that depth blood appears black and he was making this big black stain like a giant squid would do so I had to appear surprised and horrified. (I actually scolded the eel for not finishing him off)

So now we have to drag this idiot back to the boat, then to a Mexican hospital and wait the rest of the day (on my vacation) until they stitched him up.

When we got back to the hotel, he was a big hit as he was telling the tale of how this man eating eel attacked him while he was just minding his own business.

 

That is one reason why I almost never dive in any group. I go someplace, hire a guide and dive. If we are in some tropical place my wife dives with me.

Of course most of my dives are off my own boat here in new York and I don't have to deal with any of that. In the 45 or so years I have been diving, I never got bit by anything. But there was this one time when I was diving here and the visability here is about 2'. Something big hit me and kept smacking my face and wrapping itself around my head.

It was a little nerve wracking but it was a cormorant bird. They dive for fish and swim through the water with their 4' wings, not like a duck that swims with it's feet.

It was one of these things on top of the lighthouse. As a matter of fact, I think that is him on the left, I can tell from his smirk.

 

 

Here we are on top of that lighthouse. It was abandoned many years ago and I was out there as a consultant.

 

 

And this is what they leave all over the place.

 

[eitallent]

I just love it (not) when people do stupid things, that not only affects themselves but anyone around them, and expect everyone else to drop everything to help them out of their predicament!

 

I guess some people were spoiled rotten as kids and feel that they can do what they want. Then they feel that it is only right that others come to save them from their predicament!

 

Well, I am glad you were there to save that idiot so that you could re-tell the story. I had a good laugh at his stupidity. I also enjoyed your obvious surprise at his stupidity!

[albertthiel]

A Member sent me a PM with questions about Euphyllia corals ...

 

Rather than posting a long answer the better way, IMO, to approach his/her questions is to re-post the very detailed article by James Fatherree, that covers all the species, and includes a large number of images as well on the species that are typically available in the trade

 

Link :

 

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/corals

 

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

If anyone is thinking about getting a green moray I have a story about one I encountered.

I was diving in Mexico once and the guy in front of me pointed to this huge green moray eel. He was in a Volkswagon size rock and his head was sticking out of one end and his tail was sticking out the other end so I estimate the thing to be 8 or 10' long.

I pointed it out to the genius behind me in case he wanted to take a picture, but I didn't think he wanted to take a picture of himself tickling the eel under his chin like

Cousteau used to do. So the eel, who probably never met Mr. Cousteau, takes this guys entire hand into his mouth, halfway up to his elbow and he is shaking him violently.

I was watching and hoping the eel would eat him completely so I could get on with my dive and make believe I never saw the guy. But at that depth blood appears black and he was making this big black stain like a giant squid would do so I had to appear surprised and horrified. (I actually scolded the eel for not finishing him off)

So now we have to drag this idiot back to the boat, then to a Mexican hospital and wait the rest of the day (on my vacation) until they stitched him up.

When we got back to the hotel, he was a big hit as he was telling the tale of how this man eating eel attacked him while he was just minding his own business.

 

That is one reason why I almost never dive in any group. I go someplace, hire a guide and dive. If we are in some tropical place my wife dives with me.

Of course most of my dives are off my own boat here in new York and I don't have to deal with any of that. In the 45 or so years I have been diving, I never got bit by anything. But there was this one time when I was diving here and the visability here is about 2'. Something big hit me and kept smacking my face and wrapping itself around my head.

It was a little nerve wracking but it was a cormorant bird. They dive for fish and swim through the water with their 4' wings, not like a duck that swims with it's feet.

It was one of these things on top of the lighthouse. As a matter of fact, I think that is him on the left, I can tell from his smirk.

 

Here we are on top of that lighthouse. It was abandoned many years ago and I was out there as a consultant.

 

And this is what they leave all over the place.

 

 

Great story Paul that illustrates real well how ignorant some people who dive are ... they learned how to Scuba dive but have no clue about what they may encounter and what to stay away from or not ... and in this case .. well what happened explains it, this guy obviously had not clue what the large Morays can do to you ...

 

And what is the most baffling is that the guy wanted to make himself look like a "hero" .. when he could have been a gonner if you had not intervened ...

 

And I looked at that Cormoran you pointed out ... and yes he is indeed "challenging" you to come close to him so he can give you another dose of how his wings feel :-o :-o

 

Great story and good of you of course for probably saving that guys life

 

Albert

 

 

 

 

I just love it (not) when people do stupid things, that not only affects themselves but anyone around them, and expect everyone else to drop everything to help them out of their predicament!

 

I guess some people were spoiled rotten as kids and feel that they can do what they want. Then they feel that it is only right that others come to save them from their predicament!

 

Well, I am glad you were there to save that idiot so that you could re-tell the story. I had a good laugh at his stupidity. I also enjoyed your obvious surprise at his stupidity!

 

 

 

+1 for sure

[albertthiel]

Paul , have you ever tried using Red Worms ( Eisenia fetida ) to feed your fish ?

 

I know that they are used as bait when fishing and also for composting but I seem to remember that many years ago we could get them and used them as fish food ... and wiggling they do ... I think they may also be referred to as Night Crawlers by some, and Trout Worms and Tiger Worms, and I am sure a bunch of other common names ..

 

Just wondering ...

 

Albert'

[albertthiel]

Video of the Jebao WP40 Power Head / Pump

 

Quite some flow but probably a litte too much for small reefs as you will see

 

 

Link :

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=464032797011104&set=o.163998433717717&type=2&theater

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

Paul , have you ever tried using Red Worms ( Eisenia fetida ) to feed your fish ?

 

I know that they are used as bait when fishing and also for composting but I seem to remember that many years ago we could get them and used them as fish food ... and wiggling they do ... I think they may also be referred to as Night Crawlers by some, and Trout Worms and Tiger Worms, and I am sure a bunch of other common names ..

 

Just wondering ...

 

Albert'

I don't think I ever used red worms but I have many times used earthworms or nightcrawlers. They are great anemone food and of course puffers, triggers and most larger fish go nuts over them.

I just fed my tank white worms and it seems they are a perfect food for mandarins as they eat them like spaghetti and go nuts over them. They still get new born brine every day and I won't stop that because the mandarins can pick on them for a few hours from the feeder in between hunting pods.

But if anyone wants to raise mandarins, put some of the white worms in a shallow dish and the mandarins will eat every one. They stay alive for a very long time but the fish eat them so fast it is hard to tell. I can't put a dish of them in my tank because I have to many fish and they rarely even make it to the bottom of the tank. Even my possum wrasse comes out in the front to eat them. But my dragon pipefish won't try them. He eats new born shrimp but is excellent at hunting pods and stays right at the front glass and slithers like a snake. I never saw him swim and doubt that he can.

[albertthiel]

I don't think I ever used red worms but I have many times used earthworms or nightcrawlers. They are great anemone food and of course puffers, triggers and most larger fish go nuts over them.

I just fed my tank white worms and it seems they are a perfect food for mandarins as they eat them like spaghetti and go nuts over them. They still get new born brine every day and I won't stop that because the mandarins can pick on them for a few hours from the feeder in between hunting pods.

But if anyone wants to raise mandarins, put some of the white worms in a shallow dish and the mandarins will eat every one. They stay alive for a very long time but the fish eat them so fast it is hard to tell. I can't put a dish of them in my tank because I have to many fish and they rarely even make it to the bottom of the tank. Even my possum wrasse comes out in the front to eat them. But my dragon pipefish won't try them. He eats new born shrimp but is excellent at hunting pods and stays right at the front glass and slithers like a snake. I never saw him swim and doubt that he can.

 

Thanks and if you used Night Crawlers then I think you did use them as that is one of the common names they are given. They remain fairly small and as you say are kind of earthworm-like. I'll have to dig up a picture and post it so you can see which ones I was referring to.

 

Glad to read those white worms are working out that well for you .. well not really for you :-o but for your fish.

 

Thanks for the details on how the fish react and what to do for Mandarins ... Nice that the Possum Wrasse is actually coming out for the worms as most who have one typically may complain they hardly ever see their (of course there are always exceptions).

 

Albert

[Drift Monkey]

Drift Monkey ... here are some quick answers to the points you bring up ... I have to take care of packing books, sign them and dedicate some and then go to the post office to sent out the books and some Critter Torches ...

 

On the rock : a good quality will do the job for you so whether or not you want to buy premium (whatever the real definition of that is) may not be necessary. I just used cured Totoka rock and some live sand and that worked just fine for me. My book has a large number of pages on all the rock varieties ... may you want to get the e-Version to start with so you can read up on all of them as there are so many different types and dealing with them is clearly explained. But again all you need IMO is some good quality cured rock and go from there. Add some live sand and let the tank cycle and you are ready to add whatever it is you decided on ...

 

On Macro-Algae : yes they export nutrients and will uptake phosphates for sure. Given that you provide them with the right kind of light they should not die off on you but will grown and will indeed need trimming on a regular basis. IMO placing them in the sump is best but you can add some of them in the DT as well ... just not Caulerpa IMO as it grows too fast and in all directions and needs too much work to keep it under control and you are looking for minimal maintenance so I would use different types ... 6500 K light over the fuge should give you good and continuous growth and no die-off IME ... Trim as I said when necessary.

 

Set them up in a fuge as part of the sump or as a fuge separate from the sump and add live rock to it and some live sand and put some CUC's in there too, and if you add pods to the fuge they can multiply in there and will provide a supply of food for your fish and some corals that can trap them.

 

Yes on the adding mech and chemical filtration, as that will certainly help in keeping the water quality up ... all of it works together and helps you with a better environment for your life forms. Want to leave chem filtration out ? You can, you will just need more water changes IME, based on the testing you do and what they show for the nutrient levels.

 

Add a skimmer ... that is device I would not leave out unless you have a real small tank substitute the effect and benefit of the skimmer by adjusting how much water you change and how often.

 

A low depth of sand if indeed a good idea ... see previous post for the suggested depths.

 

Do not use too coarse substrate as that will allow detritus to work its way into it ... not too fine either as that packs too much, and can lead to issues with anaerobic activity if it is a little too large (high) ... The medium sized grain is probably the better one to go with. At least in my experience.

 

Note that the larger the grain size the less surface area for bacterial growth you have, medium will offer a lot more area,. and fine of course even more but fine is not recommended due to the packing effect ... so medium size is what I would go with as I said.

 

I would not get into DSB's for a Nano .. IMO not a good idea and you pointed some of the issue out.

 

Yes dispense with the cryptic fuge and run just a regular one .. .much easier to maintain too.

 

And as you say ... depending on what life forms you add, some of the water purification and nutrient export will happen as well and can indeed reduce required maintenance ...

 

Now if as you say you want a more natural system ... min. chem filtration and no skimmer .. then a lot of what we have been writing about can be disregarded. You can certainly start your tank up that way and if things do not work out the way you want, you can always add chem filtration and even the skimmer ...

 

Hopefully this gives you some more ideas and a perspective on how you can set your Reef up ... if anything is still unclear let me know ...

 

Thanks

 

Albert

 

My definition of "quality live rock" is extra-porous, lightweight, established live rock...preferably uncured. I understand other methods can work...I just think the biodiversity of such rock is probably an advantage. Tukani and Totoka come to mind.

 

Perhaps I'll give marcos another try.

 

I think I will try a methodical, staged setup...adding equipment and such as my water parameters dictate.

 

Yes...indeed this has given me quite a bit of perspective as well as a general direction I can work towards. With the underpinnings sorted out, finding a setup that works for me (and perhaps not work for someone else) is what I'll strive for.

 

Thanks for putting up with me Albert. Maybe you can follow along with my build once I get it up and running...

[albertthiel]

Nutri-Water ... Too good to be true ?

 

Has anyone used this and has experience with this what sounds too good to be true "water" with the special "QX23" (?) additive ...

 

I am not saying that one cannot use it when the tank has been running for a while .. but instant no cycle, put fish in right away etc ... sounds a bit .... ??

 

Link :

 

http://www.nutriseawater.com

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

My definition of "quality live rock" is extra-porous, lightweight, established live rock...preferably uncured. I understand other methods can work...I just think the biodiversity of such rock is probably an advantage. Tukani and Totoka come to mind.

 

Perhaps I'll give marcos another try.

 

I think I will try a methodical, staged setup...adding equipment and such as my water parameters dictate.

 

Yes...indeed this has given me quite a bit of perspective as well as a general direction I can work towards. With the underpinnings sorted out, finding a setup that works for me (and perhaps not work for someone else) is what I'll strive for.

 

Thanks for putting up with me Albert. Maybe you can follow along with my build once I get it up and running...

 

Fully agree on that one ... porosity and keeping the pores open by regularly blowing off whatever accumulated on the LR is definitely a plus ... I personally use the Totoka ... lightweight as you say and very porous.

 

I brought the total weight down to about 1 lb per gallon, from an initial 2 per gallon, and did so slowly ... some advocate that more rock is better and some advocate that if live sand is present that less is just fine .. I second the 1 lb per gallon after the tank has aged for some time, but starting up with the higher amount and having a layer of LS of say 1 inch or a bit more (and keeping it clean)

 

I think that if you go that way you cannot go wrong ... and yes give the macro algae another try in the fuge with the correct type of lighting for algae growth and it think you will find that they will not die off (I posted a link to an article on refugiums that you probably read and that makes good recommendations as to what type of algae to keep and grow in a fuge).

 

+1 on the methodical ... that's the way to go .. and glad I was able to help a little and I will definitely be following your thread (let us know once it is set up).

 

And no need to apologize .. feel free to share our thoughts, questions, suggestions, findings etc ... any time Drift Monkey ... so don't be a stranger now .. thanks

 

Albert

[brandon429]

That water Albert is what the guys at tanked use Ive noticed. Whether or not their filtration systems are pre seeded I don't know but they have used that water it was just in the last episode where the tennis shoes were in the tank.

[atoll]

One of my pearly dartfish disappeared a few days ago and I have not seen it since. I have taken a good look around the tank which has a 4" surround to help prevent fish jumping out. I can find no trace of it not even in the overflow on which I placed a loose fitting cover. The other is still there and seems happy enough. maybe something in the tank got it who knows.

[Paul.b]

 

 

Thanks for the details on how the fish react and what to do for Mandarins ... Nice that the Possum Wrasse is actually coming out for the worms as most who have one typically may complain they hardly ever see their (of course there are always exceptions).

 

Albert

 

 

When a fish goes into my tank they have to learn what they are supposed to do to be happy and live a long life. Fish like a Possum wrasse will always hide so I shoot some worms in the back so he stays healthy while he is contemplating swimming in the front. Eventually I shoot the food closer to the front and soon that possum wrasse will be sitting on the couch beside me watching re-runs of Bonanza.

[albertthiel]

That water Albert is what the guys at tanked use Ive noticed. Whether or not their filtration systems are pre seeded I don't know but they have used that water it was just in the last episode where the tennis shoes were in the tank.

 

Brandon ... do you have a link for that site or thread ... In the interim on my FB group Nano-Reef Aquariums (which is open to anyone to join) I received a reply from Frank Aguirre, from Canada, who is a highly respected Hobbyist but also an installer of very large systems and even consults for Public Aquariums if positive about it but he did not clarify whether he meant for use once a Nano is set up of whether it can be used in the manner that the Company describes (instant cycle - start up right way) ... so I am waiting for more info.

 

Of course I guess that one of the issues for some could be that due to the weight shipping could run rather high .. but we'll see ... I;'ll have to gather some more info on it I guess before formulating an opinion about it ... so not sure yet what to say about it.

 

The only thing that kind of make me wonder is that if it were that good, as described by the Company, then why is it not more widely seen discussed on Forums and why are not more Hobbyists using it .. you know if it did indeed what it says it should do then I would expect its use to be far more widespread.

 

More to follow I guess ..

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

One of my pearly dartfish disappeared a few days ago and I have not seen it since. I have taken a good look around the tank which has a 4" surround to help prevent fish jumping out. I can find no trace of it not even in the overflow on which I placed a loose fitting cover. The other is still there and seems happy enough. maybe something in the tank got it who knows.

 

Sorry to read that Les but as you know with so many hiding spaces in your tank it may still show up .. odd thing is though that the 2nd one is there but not the other one ... and I guess you did not find a corpse anywhere either.

 

What do you think may have happened, or if you think it is predation ... and if so what could have gotten to it ... I don't seem to remember that you have carnivores in that tank or anything else that would grab fish and kill them off ...

 

Odd indeed. Keep us posted ... and sorry for the possible losss ..

 

Albert

[atoll]

Thanks Albert,

All I can say it was there one day swimming and eating with the other and the next day no sign and no sign since.

I don't knowingly have anything in my tank that could have predated on it but one never really knows. I have a red LED torch now not the ones you have one I bought off eBay and I will do a few night time hunts with it but I am not hopeful,

Sorry to read that Les but as you know with so many hiding spaces in your tank it may still show up .. odd thing is though that the 2nd one is there but not the other one ... and I guess you did not find a corpse anywhere either.

 

What do you think may have happened, or if you think it is predation ... and if so what could have gotten to it ... I don't seem to remember that you have carnivores in that tank or anything else that would grab fish and kill them off ...

 

Odd indeed. Keep us posted ... and sorry for the possible losss ..

 

Albert