THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[joeyhatch11]

Thoughts on these leds, powered by a 660ma driver, over a 15x15x7 tank, May only be using 4 of them, with 7x455 blues also on a seperate 660ma driver.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-1W-3W-White-5...=item564fb591a0

[albertthiel]

A few Tank Pictures taken yesterday

 

 

The left side of the tank

 

 

 

The large Pavona (close up of the leafy part)

 

 

 

The Yumas, with Teen Yuma visible

 

 

 

Duncan, looking good, with a small new head growth visible

 

 

 

Oops no this one is not in my tank and not one of my dogs either :-)

 

 

I also discovered a small growth of "Caulerpa" macro-algae in the tank, that appeared out of absolutely nowhere two days ago, after the tank has been running since early June, that's over six months and nothing was added that could have had Caulerpa on it. The "runner" can clearly be seen,

 

At this point it is so small still that it is hArd to tell which species exactly it is. It could be C. peltata (probably), or depending on how it develops it could be C. racemosa, but based on the growth pattern so far it looks more like C. peltata.

 

I wish it was Acetabularia spp. but it does not look like it. :-(

 

Pictures to follow.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Thoughts on these leds, powered by a 660ma driver, over a 15x15x7 tank, May only be using 4 of them, with 7x455 blues also on a seperate 660ma driver.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-1W-3W-White-5...=item564fb591a0

5000 K ? Seems low to me but what do you have in the tank ? And you say you want to run 4 of these units and add to them. Can you clarify somewhat more pls and I noticed this is for a Torch light !

 

Albert

Edited December 8, 2012 by albertthiel

[joeyhatch11]

I was told that 5K mixed with some 455 blues would help my corals grow a bit better. Currently I have the tank stocked with kenya, ricordia, zoas and mushrooms. The 4 white leds I'm currently running were labled 19k, not knowing any better at the time I thought Id get the kind of look you would see from a T5 19K so I went with them. Since installing them, the corals have not grown except for the Kenya. They open everyday and extend out but zero growth. So when I posted up about this I was told a 5-6500K would help promote better growth so I ordered those 5k's. Yes I see that they are labled "torch" but I was going by the "K" rating when I saw them. I figured they have to be better than what I have now right? The plans were to replace the 4x19K's with these 5K's. The 455 blues are ran on there own driver.

[albertthiel]

Pictures of the Caulerpa growth (at this point looks like C. peltata)

 

Pictures are highly zoomed in on the very small growth ...

 

12/06

 

 

 

12.07

 

 

 

And what C. racemosa looks like. There is a similarity but the current growth is not developed enough to make a definite ID ... I'll let it grow for a while as long as it does not get out of hand.

 

 

Too early to take a picture of what it looks like today .. lights not on.

 

Appeared out of the blue after the tank has been set up for 6 months + and I did not add anything to the tank that could have brought this in. Just tell you what can survive and not appear until conditions are right for it, and note that both NO3 and PO4 are not detectable in this tank.

 

Albert

Edited December 8, 2012 by albertthiel

[albertthiel]

I was told that 5K mixed with some 455 blues would help my corals grow a bit better. Currently I have the tank stocked with kenya, ricordia, zoas and mushrooms. The 4 white leds I'm currently running were labled 19k, not knowing any better at the time I thought Id get the kind of look you would see from a T5 19K so I went with them. Since installing them, the corals have not grown except for the Kenya. They open everyday and extend out but zero growth. So when I posted up about this I was told a 5-6500K would help promote better growth so I ordered those 5k's. Yes I see that they are labled "torch" but I was going by the "K" rating when I saw them. I figured they have to be better than what I have now right? The plans were to replace the 4x19K's with these 5K's. The 455 blues are ran on there own driver.

455 blue is in just about the best absorbency for photosynthesis and may have a small peak at 420 (actinic). 5000 K is daylight with 6500K being better.

 

Note though that with the corals you have in the tank you do not really need any advanced type of lighting as those corals will do well under H5's H5TO's and even under 6500 K CFT lights.

 

And by the way Kenya Trees grow rapidly and adapt easily to different lights and can spread quickly as they can actually self-frag and drop branches that attach somewhere and grow to a new coral, and if that continues you will have them all over the tank.

 

IMO any 6500 K type of light with enough intensity based on the size of your tank should do fine for you.

 

But you can try the ones you linked to as they are not expensive and if they do not give the desired results you can always go back to what you have supplemented by some actinic

 

Albert

[joeyhatch11]

Thank you so much for your replies. Ive asked this question before and instead of people helping they just made fun of the choices I've made and offered no helpful advice or links to anything better. So again thank you. Joe

[Paul.b]

Well in Paul's large tank some may actually make it ... Hopefully so ...

With almost 30 fish in there that are used to eating small live food, I seriously doubt it, unless they find one of the bottles with a small neck to hide in.

Dam, I should have kept that beer can in there.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Paul.b

[albertthiel]

Thank you so much for your replies. Ive asked this question before and instead of people helping they just made fun of the choices I've made and offered no helpful advice or links to anything better. So again thank you. Joe

You are welcome and if you have more questions feel free to post them here and I'll be glad to help if I can

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

With almost 30 fish in there that are used to eating small live food, I seriously doubt it, unless they find one of the bottles with a small neck to hide in.

Dam, I should have kept that beer can in there.

Yes indeed Paul, it is indeed unlikely that any will make it as the other fish in your tank will feast on them before they ever even get beyond the egg stage (unfortunately). But that's how it goes, big fish eat fish eggs and the like.

 

Pity but I have a feeling that by now most of them are gone already.

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

Albert I am sorry my post made you laugh last night and possably disturbed your sleep. That was not my intention but that was only a snippet of a post that I thought was appropriate to mention here.

I am only here to help but I find posts like this disturbing.

I will add it here if I may.

 

I can't believe that there are so many problems in this rewarding hobby. If you read through these forums you will read almost nothing but problems and this is supposed to be a hobby. A hobby is supposed to be fun. If you have been in this for 4 years and for 3 years and 6 months you see nothing but problems, perhaps this is not for you.

I hear stamp collecting is fun and there is absolutely no stress. I feel bad for some members here.

Most posts go something like this:

 

NEED HELP FAST

Please help.

I came home yesterday and I knew something was wrong, The cleaning lady, who I later found out is not really a cleaning lady, or even a lady for that matter, was spralled out on the couch next to my dog, who was dead, the dog, not the lady. OMG I quickly ran to my reef tank but tripped over something, it was my cat, also dead.

When I finally got to the tank the lights were on, but very dim. I realized the tank was dim because my new ORP controller that was behind the tank, was on fire.

I quickly put out the fire and pulled the chain to put on the tank lights. At first all seemed well but then I smelled something. I sniffed around the tank but could not find the problem, then I noticed the cleaning "lady" was standing behind me, with the cat.

The cleaning lady doesn't speak English, or any language that I could tell, but in sign language she explained to me that my wife ran away with Sam. Sam is our butcher, but my wife is a vegetarian.

Now it seemed that the only good thing was my reef tank so I got comfortable in front of the tank and called for my other dog, "Lucky". Lucky took a long time coming to me because lucky was born with only one leg. And for some reason that leg always points north, no matter which way Lucky is facing, that leg points north. As Lucky ran towards me I heard that satisfying sound of his paw on the hardwood floor, "Ker plunk" "Ker plunk" "Ker plunk".

He has a few other, not so serious health problems but he is a loving pet. Lucky sat with me watching the tank. He sits with his back to the tank because Lucky only has one eye, and it faces backward.

As me and Lucky were watching the tank, I noticed that my mandarin seemed to be eating more pods than usual. I found this odd because there are no pods in my tank. On closer inspection I noticed that they were not pods, but lice. I then realized that the cleaning lady, who has hair down to her knees which is always wet, must have washed her hair in the tank.

This cleaning lady came to us about 6 weeks ago, at first I thought she was an envirnmentalist because she had three shopping carts with her, filled to the brim with plastic bottles and cans. When I opened the door the first thing I noticed was that she had on her right foot this really beautiful Yves St Laurent high heel shoe. On her left foot was a timberland boot. The Timberland boot had this sticky substance oozing from the underside but I won't go into that right now.

I asked her if she knew anything about reef tanks, calcium reactors, oxygenators, protein skimmers etc.

She nodded to all my questions so I invited her in. I quickly learned she had this crick in her neck and nods constantly. As a matter of fact, that is the only movement she can make above her waist. She doesn't really have a waist but you get the idea.

Anyway I don't want to stray from my tank problem. As I said, the mandarin was eating, lice, but he seemed to enjoy them. I searched for the other tank inhabitants and noticed my two hermit crabs. One was laying on his side, obviousely in distress. I put on my reading glasses and took a closer look. He has varicose veins and probably a little osteoporosis. The other crab seems fine and was sitting on a roll of pennies. I wondered where the pennies came from until I saw a wad of rolled up twenty dollar bills under the anemone, (who was dead) The bills had a pink rubber band around them and I realized they were from my dresser. The cleaning lady was probably stealing money from me and hiding it in the tank. I was born at night, but not last night. I put two and two together and figured that this cleaning lady might not be all that she seems.

 

Anyway, this is how many posts go on these fish forums. Can't we get some happy posts like:

Yesterday Claudia Schiffer came to my door, she heard I have a reef tank and just loves reef tanks, she also loves to clean and cook and she owns a yacht.

Thats the type of posts I want to hear about.

[Nano sapiens]

^^ - That was amusing

 

Just like sensationalist news on TV...usually, one only hears about the bad happenings. The problems are what gets peoples' attention and what we tend to remember.

 

The two biggest pitfalls I've seen are a lack of understanding in regards to proper maintenance, especially the SB, and the resulting decline in tank health over time that often leads to a crash. The other is an over reliance on high Tech gadgets/chemicals to fix every single little 'issue' (real or perceived).

[Paul.b]

That female mandarin that spawned last night was very skinny when I got her about a year ago. You can see here how her stomach was sunken in and I didn't think she would make it which is the reason I designed that feeder. She spends most of her day on it or next to it even though my tank is filled with pods.

[albertthiel]

Albert I am sorry my post made you laugh last night and possably disturbed your sleep. That was not my intention but that was only a snippet of a post that I thought was appropriate to mention here.

 

Oh you did not disturb my sleep at all in fact on the contrary. I lay down and went into dream land real fast, that until one of my my dog jumped on and off the bed and woke me up, but fortunately I feel back asleep rather quickly, and while awake did not feel the need to worry and go check my tank :-) to make sure my fish were asleep as well ... :-)

 

So no it was not a post that caused any ill effects ... I did have a dream though about your breeding mandarins :-)

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

The two biggest pitfalls I've seen are a lack of understanding in regards to proper maintenance, especially the SB, and the resulting decline in tank health over time that often leads to a crash. The other is an over reliance on high Tech gadgets/chemicals to fix every single little 'issue' (real or perceived).

That is true and I would like to add lazziness. Many people if they are at something long enough they lost interest. For some reason that has not happened to me and if anything I am more attentive to the tank, but not really maintenance. I think that after so many years you can just feel that all is well. I can look at my tank for 5 seconds and notice if something is wrong. That very rarely happens and I don't test anything but in the morning when I go by the tank I put my hand on the glass. From that I can tell the temperature.

After the lights come on I look closely at the base of the corals and can tell if they are growing on the rock or whatever they are attached to. The tips are hard to tell but you can see the thing creeping onto the rock. If I see that, I know all is well. And it usualy is

[albertthiel]

Albert I am sorry my post made you laugh last night and possably disturbed your sleep. That was not my intention but that was only a snippet of a post that I thought was appropriate to mention here.

I am only here to help but I find posts like this disturbing.

I will add it here if I may.

 

I can't believe that there are so many problems in this rewarding hobby. If you read through these forums you will read almost nothing but problems and this is supposed to be a hobby. A hobby is supposed to be fun. If you have been in this for 4 years and for 3 years and 6 months you see nothing but problems, perhaps this is not for you.

I hear stamp collecting is fun and there is absolutely no stress. I feel bad for some members here.

Most posts go something like this:

 

NEED HELP FAST

Please help.

I came home yesterday and I knew something was wrong, The cleaning lady, who I later found out is not really a cleaning lady, or even a lady for that matter, was spralled out on the couch next to my dog, who was dead, the dog, not the lady. OMG I quickly ran to my reef tank but tripped over something, it was my cat, also dead.

When I finally got to the tank the lights were on, but very dim. I realized the tank was dim because my new ORP controller that was behind the tank, was on fire.

I quickly put out the fire and pulled the chain to put on the tank lights. At first all seemed well but then I smelled something. I sniffed around the tank but could not find the problem, then I noticed the cleaning "lady" was standing behind me, with the cat.

The cleaning lady doesn't speak English, or any language that I could tell, but in sign language she explained to me that my wife ran away with Sam. Sam is our butcher, but my wife is a vegetarian.

Now it seemed that the only good thing was my reef tank so I got comfortable in front of the tank and called for my other dog, "Lucky". Lucky took a long time coming to me because lucky was born with only one leg. And for some reason that leg always points north, no matter which way Lucky is facing, that leg points north. As Lucky ran towards me I heard that satisfying sound of his paw on the hardwood floor, "Ker plunk" "Ker plunk" "Ker plunk".

He has a few other, not so serious health problems but he is a loving pet. Lucky sat with me watching the tank. He sits with his back to the tank because Lucky only has one eye, and it faces backward.

As me and Lucky were watching the tank, I noticed that my mandarin seemed to be eating more pods than usual. I found this odd because there are no pods in my tank. On closer inspection I noticed that they were not pods, but lice. I then realized that the cleaning lady, who has hair down to her knees which is always wet, must have washed her hair in the tank.

This cleaning lady came to us about 6 weeks ago, at first I thought she was an envirnmentalist because she had three shopping carts with her, filled to the brim with plastic bottles and cans. When I opened the door the first thing I noticed was that she had on her right foot this really beautiful Yves St Laurent high heel shoe. On her left foot was a timberland boot. The Timberland boot had this sticky substance oozing from the underside but I won't go into that right now.

I asked her if she knew anything about reef tanks, calcium reactors, oxygenators, protein skimmers etc.

She nodded to all my questions so I invited her in. I quickly learned she had this crick in her neck and nods constantly. As a matter of fact, that is the only movement she can make above her waist. She doesn't really have a waist but you get the idea.

Anyway I don't want to stray from my tank problem. As I said, the mandarin was eating, lice, but he seemed to enjoy them. I searched for the other tank inhabitants and noticed my two hermit crabs. One was laying on his side, obviousely in distress. I put on my reading glasses and took a closer look. He has varicose veins and probably a little osteoporosis. The other crab seems fine and was sitting on a roll of pennies. I wondered where the pennies came from until I saw a wad of rolled up twenty dollar bills under the anemone, (who was dead) The bills had a pink rubber band around them and I realized they were from my dresser. The cleaning lady was probably stealing money from me and hiding it in the tank. I was born at night, but not last night. I put two and two together and figured that this cleaning lady might not be all that she seems.

 

Anyway, this is how many posts go on these fish forums. Can't we get some happy posts like:

Yesterday Claudia Schiffer came to my door, she heard I have a reef tank and just loves reef tanks, she also loves to clean and cook and she owns a yacht.

Thats the type of posts I want to hear about.

 

Thanks Paul for bringing some humor to the thread with your posts ... humor is needed ! Especially since we the Holidays are nearly here ... of course you are on Holiday the whole year I guess now :-)

 

You should have checked that Cleaning Lady's Green Card I think !!!!

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

^^ - That was amusing

 

Just like sensationalist news on TV...usually, one only hears about the bad happenings. The problems are what gets peoples' attention and what we tend to remember.

 

The two biggest pitfalls I've seen are a lack of understanding in regards to proper maintenance, especially the SB, and the resulting decline in tank health over time that often leads to a crash. The other is an over reliance on high Tech gadgets/chemicals to fix every single little 'issue' (real or perceived).

That is what sells ... the more sensational the better the News Channels think and so they hardly ever report pleasant and good heart warming news unfortunately. I think that is also why people go to and watch Nascar races, not to see who wins IMO but to see the accidents that happen :-(

 

And yes proper maintenance of sand beds is indeed a very debated topic and I have yet to see a conclusive technical report written by an authoritative source that makes sense to me. Way too many maybe so and maybe this and maybe that, or try this or that ..

 

And on additives ... and automation ... people seem to like too many easy fixes to problems that IMO should never happen to begin with, and that is I guess what Paul is trying to get across ... too many posts about problems. IMO there are way too many additives and far too many that are claiming all sorts of benefits but do not tell us why or what is in the products that are advocated.

 

It also seems that the hobby is starting to shift back to what was being done many years ago and that is more and more equipment and controllers ... which makes it more and more difficult for a lot of people to enter the hobby due to the high expense of all of them. Pity.

 

I guess it is along the lines of "why keep it simple if you can make it complicated" :-)

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

That female mandarin that spawned last night was very skinny when I got her about a year ago. You can see here how her stomach was sunken in and I didn't think she would make it which is the reason I designed that feeder. She spends most of her day on it or next to it even though my tank is filled with pods.

 

Man oh man I wonder how that Mandarin ever made it ? What a sunken belly indeed I can "clearly" see in that picture :-)

 

Now why she is on or nearby the feeder even though the tank is full of pods? Gee Paul .. it's a lot easier to grab them as they exit the feeder than chasing them around in the thank .. Keep It Simple right !

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

That is true and I would like to add lazziness. Many people if they are at something long enough they lost interest. For some reason that has not happened to me and if anything I am more attentive to the tank, but not really maintenance. I think that after so many years you can just feel that all is well. I can look at my tank for 5 seconds and notice if something is wrong. That very rarely happens and I don't test anything but in the morning when I go by the tank I put my hand on the glass. From that I can tell the temperature.

After the lights come on I look closely at the base of the corals and can tell if they are growing on the rock or whatever they are attached to. The tips are hard to tell but you can see the thing creeping onto the rock. If I see that, I know all is well. And it usualy is

 

Well maybe it is not laziness per se, but trying to shave some costs off tank maintenance, and that invariably leads to problems .. which then leads to a lot of hobbyists operating in a "reactive" mode rather than a "proactive" one.

 

Avoid the problem to begin with and prevent it from happening, and no anxiety will come about because of problems that appear. And it will save one a lot of money too ... no need for "it fixes everything" additives!

 

And I also think that the more one "fiddles" with the tank, the more likely one is to get problems to come up. Leave it alone as much as possible, and in most cases it will take care of itself for the most part as long as the basic maintenance is taken care of.

 

I know you do so ... and on another note, how is that rotating scrubber doing ?

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

The rotating algae scrubber is still rotating but I have more hair growing in my ears than hair algae on that scrubber. I guess it is all growing in the trough.

My tank now is severly overloaded and it's a good thing I didn't put in another copperband. If you look at my tank quickly, you may not see any fish, that is because most of them are smaller except for the copperband and fireclowns. Hiding fish sometimes means healthy fish because they are either spawning or cleaning a nest site. Of course it could also mean that they are sick and trying to hide so they don't get molested. My fish don't generally get sick so I don't have that problem but they do spawn. Most of them like to spawn in the back of the tank, under a rock where I can't see them. There are 3 chalk bass in there and they hide under rocks looking for the next meal of worms. There is a school of 6 glass cardinals (or threadfin cardinals) that hang out motionless so they to are hard to see.

But my tank is very simple, it is just about as simple as you can get with no controllers, dosers, or electronic anything. I am also not a big water change fanatic although I do change some water.

As you implied, most problems come from tinkering with the tank and water chemistry. I am not sure what my nitrates are now but I guess around 40. About half the people reading this just fainted.

The SPS corals which can be a guage of tank health are growing nicely and as I said I can tell by the base of them spreading onto the attached rock. The fact that the fish are spawning is an excellent sign that the tank is very healthy.

I say all the time that the most important thing you can do to a tank is not anything difficult, expensive or complicated, it is feeding live or at least fresh, "whole" foods. That is what allows fish to spawn and spawning fish or fish that are in spawning condition don't get sick. Almost never.

Flakes won't do it, a varied diet won't do it, pellets won't do it, Angel formula #42 won't do it.

All you need is live food and if you can get live blackworms you will never have to put up a thread that starts with the word "Help"

[albertthiel]

The rotating algae scrubber is still rotating but I have more hair growing in my ears than hair algae on that scrubber. I guess it is all growing in the trough.

My tank now is severly overloaded and it's a good thing I didn't put in another copperband. If you look at my tank quickly, you may not see any fish, that is because most of them are smaller except for the copperband and fireclowns. Hiding fish sometimes means healthy fish because they are either spawning or cleaning a nest site. Of course it could also mean that they are sick and trying to hide so they don't get molested. My fish don't generally get sick so I don't have that problem but they do spawn. Most of them like to spawn in the back of the tank, under a rock where I can't see them. There are 3 chalk bass in there and they hide under rocks looking for the next meal of worms. There is a school of 6 glass cardinals (or threadfin cardinals) that hang out motionless so they to are hard to see.

But my tank is very simple, it is just about as simple as you can get with no controllers, dosers, or electronic anything. I am also not a big water change fanatic although I do change some water.

As you implied, most problems come from tinkering with the tank and water chemistry. I am not sure what my nitrates are now but I guess around 40. About half the people reading this just fainted.

The SPS corals which can be a guage of tank health are growing nicely and as I said I can tell by the base of them spreading onto the attached rock. The fact that the fish are spawning is an excellent sign that the tank is very healthy.

I say all the time that the most important thing you can do to a tank is not anything difficult, expensive or complicated, it is feeding live or at least fresh, "whole" foods. That is what allows fish to spawn and spawning fish or fish that are in spawning condition don't get sick. Almost never.

Flakes won't do it, a varied diet won't do it, pellets won't do it, Angel formula #42 won't do it.

All you need is live food and if you can get live blackworms you will never have to put up a thread that starts with the word "Help"

My guess Paul is that your Nitrates are probably far lower than that given the amount of algae that are growing in your trough ... with that many algae there nitrates are IMO under control and far lower than the 40 ppm you wrote.

 

And on healthy tanks .. yes letting everything settle and feeding the right foods for corals and fish is definitely one of the main keys to success.

 

You may have lots of fish and corals but since you have not cried for help yet I have to conclude that all is OK in Paul's Reef !

 

Thanks for the details on what you do and how you do it to keep a healthy tank and I am sure you'll share some more

 

Albert

[Nano sapiens]

It also seems that the hobby is starting to shift back to what was being done many years ago and that is more and more equipment and controllers ... which makes it more and more difficult for a lot of people to enter the hobby due to the high expense of all of them. Pity.

 

I guess it is along the lines of "why keep it simple if you can make it complicated" :-)

 

Albert

 

I've noticed the trend, too. Manufacturers and even some journalists help to perpetuate the myth that one just needs more/fancier equipment to fix a particular issue. Many don't realize that a perfectly healthy, long thriving Nano tank can be had and easily maintained with a minimal amount of equipment for a relatively modest amount of money.

[Paul.b]

with that many algae there nitrates are IMO under control and far lower than the 40 ppm you wrote.

 

Your going to make me go and look for a test kit now aren't you?

I am afraid to test, it may be higher than 40 with the amount of fish i have now.

On a lighter note, I found my shrimp, or I should say he found his symbiotic gobi. Both are living together and all is well.

 

Nano tank can be had and easily maintained with a minimal amount of equipment for a relatively modest amount of money.

My fish never cared how much money I spend on the tank. They just want to be healthy.

I would imagine a Nano would be relatively cheap to operate.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Paul.b

[albertthiel]

I've noticed the trend, too. Manufacturers and even some journalists help to perpetuate the myth that one just needs more/fancier equipment to fix a particular issue. Many don't realize that a perfectly healthy, long thriving Nano tank can be had and easily maintained with a minimal amount of equipment for a relatively modest amount of money.

Indeed, the more we complicate our set-ups, the more can go wrong, especially if the equipment is not correctly set up or maintained. Often it is installed and not touched again until something goes wrong with it but no regular maintenance is done on it.

 

Then there are the articles that are written to promote products, and for which those who write get paid to do so. A lot of product reviews fall in that category unfortunately, and a lot of them are not based on any testing that can be reproduced over and over by anyone who wants to. And what about all those magic additives that make lots of claims for what they do but we don't even know what is in them, yet many will buy them because of such reviews and advertising ... Hobbyists use them and see no adverse effects, so they must be good but if you ask them what got better you will find that in most cases they cannot give you an answer.

 

I could give examples but I am not going to .. I am sure you know about quite a few of the ones I am referring to. But ULNS is one of them and here is a good link to the pros and cons if ULNS systems, and you may already know that these systems can have major drawbacks and rather than simplifying things for hobbyists, IMO they complicate things. I am not saying one should not use them but it certainly takes a lot more than an average hobbyist to properly manage such a system than what the Manufacturers claim (not to speak of the cost). Also it is well known that Zeolites do not work well in SW, they do in FW yet some of the ULNS systems rely on Zeolites (of course they do not tell you which ones are used so one has no way to check whether they can actually achieve what is claimed, or whether they are just another area that can be colonized by nitrifying bacteria.

 

Some equipment is needed but going overboard only leads to more that can go wrong.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Your going to make me go and look for a test kit now aren't you?

I am afraid to test, it may be higher than 40 with the amount of fish i have now.

On a lighter note, I found my shrimp, or I should say he found his symbiotic gobi. Both are living together and all is well.

 

My fish never cared how much money I spend on the tank. They just want to be healthy.

I would imagine a Nano would be relatively cheap to operate.

Ho no Paul I do not want you to go buy one because what I think you will find is that you did not need it! With that algae scrubber working as well as it is there should not be any nitrates in tank, well not at the level you indicated. If I had to take a guess (and I know that is dangerous) I would 5 ppm and probably close to zero PO4.

 

Glad the shrimp found the Goby or vice-versa ... now they can start a "romance" :-)

 

Yes Nano's should not be expensive to operate if you keep it simple, but if you start adding all sorts of equipment then the cost can rise rather quickly.

 

But it does come down to regular and proper maintenance as if that is not done in such small water volumes things can get out of control and then yes a lot of actions are going to be needed to get things back under control and that is going to cost money.

 

Gee a friend of mine in CT is running an SPS tank with a canister filter and growing SPS corals like there is no tomorrow and all he does is make sure his calcium and magnesium levels are ok by doing small frequent water changes, and feeding them, and running some T5HO bulbs over that 15 gallon tank.

 

He keeps fragging and selling them to a store in Greenwich and uses that money to buy salt and GFO which he uses to keep his PO4 low, and to change his T5HO bulbs every 6 months or so.

 

Albert