Tulip's Topic of Answeerss :)

[HVani]

A cleaner shrimp won't be able to remove things like ICH, the parasites are too deep. It's best to QT fish before adding them to the tank to make sure they are healthy.

[jedimasterben]

You had already filled the tank and were planning on stocking it after the cycle finished, that's pretty soon. You don't really have any "opportunities" to explore. There are a few options, and most of them are ruled out as being bad for your tank's health and stability.

 

Please, please, please continue asking questions, but when you are given advice from many people, please take it. I'm not asking you not to question things that may sound fishy (pun intended ), but when several people chime in that have the same response, that should start setting you on the right path.

 

The longer you let the tank sit before getting it going, the more it will cost you without getting any enjoyment out of it.

 

If you do not want to spend any more money on it, I would empty the tank until you are ready for it financially.

 

If you don't mind spending another small amount, to get the tank up to par where it would need to be to get it going on the initial cycle, do the following:

 

 

1) Drain the tank. Fill with freshly mixed saltwater using distilled or RO water. $10 or less.

 

2) If you want the sand I offered you earlier, let me know. I will send you exactly what you will need to get a proper sandbed in that tank, just the cost of shipping. If not, purchase a small bag of sand, 5-10lbs, will cost you $5-10. You will only want a 1" layer or less, with less being preferable in a nano tank.

 

3) Add another few pounds of dry rock. Go for a total of 10lbs. Probably $10 more than you have spent.

 

4) Buy this filter: Aquaclear 50 HOB $29 shipped

 

5) I will also send you some chaetomorpha macroalgae with the sand if you buy that filter. Again, free. This will help break down and get rid of nutrients in your tank, but it will require a moddable filter such as the Aquaclear.

 

6) You should be all set after that. Let the tank sit for a month,topping off daily or every other day with distilled. In this time, please purchase a test kit. This one from API is $22 shipped.

 

7) By that point, you should be into the algae bloom part of the cycle. Purchase a cleanup crew from Reefcleaners.org for ~$20. After dropping in the snails, let it sit for another week and you are ready to add a fish.

 

8) Purchase a clown fish, probably $10 at your LFS. I would also purchase some frozen mysis shrimp to feed it. They come in packs of small cubes, but one clown does not need one cube. Cut the cube into four pieces and feed only one piece at a time per day, no more than once per day in that tank, as this may still be too much food. Also look into some Selcon to mix with the food.

 

9) Wait two weeks, testing your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate at least twice a week. Test immediately if the fish begins to look or act differently than normal.

 

10) Purchase second clown fish if no ammonia or nitrite spikes happen near the end of that two week period.

 

11) Continue measuring ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels for another two weeks.

 

12) As long as there are no ammonia or nitrite spikes near the end of that two week period, and your nitrate stays below 40ppm with water changes and the chaeto (preferably below 20ppm), purchase a skunk cleaner shrimp. Monitor ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels for two weeks, then after that, I would test once every two weeks at the least, just to make sure that nothing is building up.

 

 

 

 

In addition, "cleaner" shrimp will definitely pick off any parasites and dead skin, but it's very, very doubtful that the fish will have any parasites at any time, and most likely won't let the shrimp work on them (some fish don't let the shrimp come near them). They will not help with disease of any type, nor will they be able to get to any parasites living in the fish's gills or under their slime coat.

 

Basically, if any fish gets sick, treat it, but not in the same tank as the shrimp or the shrimp will die.

[crailtap25]

What filter media are you using?

It says in my post. A power filter is what im using, it should be good for flow, and filtration..

 

 

lmao

[Deleted User 3]

A cleaner shrimp won't be able to remove things like ICH, the parasites are too deep. It's best to QT fish before adding them to the tank to make sure they are healthy.

 

Aww So only outer parasites. Makes sense. What if you're only have two fish, and you're getting them at the same time. Still QT them?

 

 

You had already filled the tank and were planning on stocking it after the cycle finished, that's pretty soon. You don't really have any "opportunities" to explore. There are a few options, and most of them are ruled out as being bad for your tank's health and stability.

 

Please, please, please continue asking questions, but when you are given advice from many people, please take it. I'm not asking you not to question things that may sound fishy (pun intended ), but when several people chime in that have the same response, that should start setting you on the right path.

 

The longer you let the tank sit before getting it going, the more it will cost you without getting any enjoyment out of it.

 

If you do not want to spend any more money on it, I would empty the tank until you are ready for it financially.

 

If you don't mind spending another small amount, to get the tank up to par where it would need to be to get it going on the initial cycle, do the following:

 

 

1) Drain the tank. Fill with freshly mixed saltwater using distilled or RO water. $10 or less.

 

2) If you want the sand I offered you earlier, let me know. I will send you exactly what you will need to get a proper sandbed in that tank, just the cost of shipping. If not, purchase a small bag of sand, 5-10lbs, will cost you $5-10. You will only want a 1" layer or less, with less being preferable in a nano tank.

 

3) Add another few pounds of dry rock. Go for a total of 10lbs. Probably $10 more than you have spent.

 

4) Buy this filter: Aquaclear 50 HOB $29 shipped

 

5) I will also send you some chaetomorpha macroalgae with the sand if you buy that filter. Again, free. This will help break down and get rid of nutrients in your tank, but it will require a moddable filter such as the Aquaclear.

 

6) You should be all set after that. Let the tank sit for a month,topping off daily or every other day with distilled. In this time, please purchase a test kit. This one from API is $22 shipped.

 

7) By that point, you should be into the algae bloom part of the cycle. Purchase a cleanup crew from Reefcleaners.org for ~$20. After dropping in the snails, let it sit for another week and you are ready to add a fish.

 

8) Purchase a clown fish, probably $10 at your LFS. I would also purchase some frozen mysis shrimp to feed it. They come in packs of small cubes, but one clown does not need one cube. Cut the cube into four pieces and feed only one piece at a time per day, no more than once per day in that tank, as this may still be too much food. Also look into some Selcon to mix with the food.

 

9) Wait two weeks, testing your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate at least twice a week. Test immediately if the fish begins to look or act differently than normal.

 

10) Purchase second clown fish if no ammonia or nitrite spikes happen near the end of that two week period.

 

11) Continue measuring ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels for another two weeks.

 

12) As long as there are no ammonia or nitrite spikes near the end of that two week period, and your nitrate stays below 40ppm with water changes and the chaeto (preferably below 20ppm), purchase a skunk cleaner shrimp. Monitor ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels for two weeks, then after that, I would test once every two weeks at the least, just to make sure that nothing is building up.

 

 

 

 

In addition, "cleaner" shrimp will definitely pick off any parasites and dead skin, but it's very, very doubtful that the fish will have any parasites at any time, and most likely won't let the shrimp work on them (some fish don't let the shrimp come near them). They will not help with disease of any type, nor will they be able to get to any parasites living in the fish's gills or under their slime coat.

 

Basically, if any fish gets sick, treat it, but not in the same tank as the shrimp or the shrimp will die.

 

 

Filled it? I haven't filled it with anything but the substrate but i took it out. I just wanted to see what It looked like basically.. No water, no rocks, nothing...Where did I say I filled it? Also if you read my other replies you'll see i already ordered sand, a test kit among other things. Clown fish are 30 bucks at my LFS. I'm not buying anything there. I already have directions on what to do from herranton..

[jedimasterben]

Filled it? I haven't filled it with anything but the substrate but i took it out. I just wanted to see what It looked like basically.. No water, no rocks, nothing...Where did I say I filled it? Also if you read my other replies you'll see i already ordered sand, a test kit among other things. Clown fish are 30 bucks at my LFS. I'm not buying anything there. I already have directions on what to do from herranton..

$30 at your LFS?!?!?! Holy crap! Mine sells them for $7!

 

Apparently I'm getting threads mixed up. I could have sworn you had initially filled it with tap water and that was what sparked the discussion.

[Deleted User 3]

$30 at your LFS?!?!?! Holy crap! Mine sells them for $7!

 

Apparently I'm getting threads mixed up. I could have sworn you had initially filled it with tap water and that was what sparked the discussion.

 

No i haven't filled with anything. I was just inquiring, i was reading up online about using tap, with the conditioner thing, etc, and had a question & asked. I never filled anything up.

 

& yeah my LFS SUCKS. They sell their LR for 7 a pound too which to me is expensive compared to online. They only offer huge amounts of salt, for way more than if i ordered online + shipping.. yeah. Everything there is expensive. The test kit there that I got for 19.99 was 59.99..

[Trogdor447]

& yeah my LFS SUCKS. They sell their LR for 7 a pound too which to me is expensive compared to online. They only offer huge amounts of salt, for way more than if i ordered online + shipping.. yeah. Everything there is expensive. The test kit there that I got for 19.99 was 59.99..

 

 

my one lfs sells it for 7 a lb the other for 4-5 a lb.. depends on his day..

 

They have to make money to stay in business.. Where as the online vendors will cut their throat and sell the test kits for cost - so you combine other things that are marked up to your order. Although 59.99 is a bit ridiculous - you dont even want to know the market up factory parts for cars from the dealers...

[patback]

my one lfs sells it for 7 a lb the other for 4-5 a lb.. depends on his day..

 

They have to make money to stay in business.. Where as the online vendors will cut their throat and sell the test kits for cost - so you combine other things that are marked up to your order. Although 59.99 is a bit ridiculous - you dont even want to know the market up factory parts for cars from the dealers...

My girlfriend worked at a "discount " aftermarket auto part store. They bought car parts for around 3 dollars and sold it from anywhere from 70-100.

[Deleted User 3]

my one lfs sells it for 7 a lb the other for 4-5 a lb.. depends on his day..

 

They have to make money to stay in business.. Where as the online vendors will cut their throat and sell the test kits for cost - so you combine other things that are marked up to your order. Although 59.99 is a bit ridiculous - you dont even want to know the market up factory parts for cars from the dealers...

 

Haha, well mine wasn't too bad a markup @ the place i was looking at, but it was mostly labor that killed me, but 1600 bucks they wanted for outer tie rod ends, one bearing +pressing, a drive axle, and front brakes & alignment..

 

My girlfriend worked at a "discount " aftermarket auto part store. They bought car parts for around 3 dollars and sold it from anywhere from 70-100.

 

So i'm thinking maybe i should have went to school for doing mechanic #### and own my own shop.. i'd be a billionaire. lol Except i'm too nice.. i'd feel bad ...

[siwelk]

I'm not the 'normal' newbie.. i'm not starting for a while because I have to look up some more things and ask some more questions..

But you are.

 

Everything contained within this thread can be found here:

 

Good luck.

[Deleted User 3]

But you are.

 

Everything contained within this thread can be found here:

 

Good luck.

 

No, from what ive heard the newbies start things and don't research or ask questions, and then go help my this is this way...

[ajmckay]

Hey...

 

Okay I just skimmed the thread... People here are helpful, but sometimes a little opinionated

 

I saw it mentioned earler in the thread that starting a SW tank isn't rocket science. Fortunately for most of us it really isn't. But, there are some key fundamental biological facts that will help you immensely in creating a thriving habitat for fish, invertebrates, & corals.

 

Here are my thoughts for you:

1) Read up and gain a thorough understanding of the nitrogen cycle. This process is the primary driver in our tank, without it an aquarium would not sustain life very easily. IMO having a thorough understanding of the nitrogen cycle will help you most with establishing a new aquarium. Equipment is important, however, it's also about personal opinion, budget, etc... The biology here works the same in every tank and will help you make good choices in setting up and maintaining your tank.

 

2) Don't get too caught up on equipment. There are some obvious things to stay away from (not reef safe supplements/chemicals, improperly sized heaters, etc.. Other things like bioballs, biowheel filters, metal halide vs. T5HO vs. LED, protein skimmers, biopellets, and sumps are all personal preference, and while they may fit into a particular design very well (or essential in some cases), they're not going to significantly impact the health of your tank on a biological level.

 

3) I would never recommend anyone use tap water or well water. But on the other hand I can't really say that you should never use tap or well water. I used it for a year without trouble. Only when I really started getting into corals did I switch to filtered water. While the water is obviously the most important thing we put into our tanks, most of our livestock can adapt to less-than-RO/DI water. It's true that there are many corals that would not do well with tap water, however for a simple fish only with live rock tank with maybe a shrimp or 2 and some soft corals it's not likely to harm your tank if treated properly with chemical conditioners and maybe a simple carbon filter.

 

4) Use your own judgement when reading on internet forums Most people are well intentioned. It's tough though if you get conflicting advice. A lot of the stuff in the beginners forum seem to follow a certain "do this, but not that" formula. While it's not necessarily a bad thing, just make sure you understand clearly what advice you're being given before following it. There are many many ways to start an aquarium. Your plan to take it slow is fine. There are tons of ways to save $$ on your build without sacrificing health, you just have to be ready to deal with longer wait times and/or more maintenance.

 

5) If you're planning to start your tank with dry rock then you'll need a catalyst of some sort. Something to decay and break down in the tank. Pure ammonia is pretty popular, but a little fish food or something works too. IMO a small chunk of cured LR is best though. Once you start the tank just remember to take it slow (remember the nitrogen cycle? it's bacterial in nature so it needs time). If you have any other questions, ask.

 

Good luck.

[Deleted User 3]

Hey...

 

Okay I just skimmed the thread... People here are helpful, but sometimes a little opinionated

 

I saw it mentioned earler in the thread that starting a SW tank isn't rocket science. Fortunately for most of us it really isn't. But, there are some key fundamental biological facts that will help you immensely in creating a thriving habitat for fish, invertebrates, & corals.

 

Here are my thoughts for you:

1) Read up and gain a thorough understanding of the nitrogen cycle. This process is the primary driver in our tank, without it an aquarium would not sustain life very easily. IMO having a thorough understanding of the nitrogen cycle will help you most with establishing a new aquarium. Equipment is important, however, it's also about personal opinion, budget, etc... The biology here works the same in every tank and will help you make good choices in setting up and maintaining your tank.

 

2) Don't get too caught up on equipment. There are some obvious things to stay away from (not reef safe supplements/chemicals, improperly sized heaters, etc.. Other things like bioballs, biowheel filters, metal halide vs. T5HO vs. LED, protein skimmers, biopellets, and sumps are all personal preference, and while they may fit into a particular design very well (or essential in some cases), they're not going to significantly impact the health of your tank on a biological level.

 

3) I would never recommend anyone use tap water or well water. But on the other hand I can't really say that you should never use tap or well water. I used it for a year without trouble. Only when I really started getting into corals did I switch to filtered water. While the water is obviously the most important thing we put into our tanks, most of our livestock can adapt to less-than-RO/DI water. It's true that there are many corals that would not do well with tap water, however for a simple fish only with live rock tank with maybe a shrimp or 2 and some soft corals it's not likely to harm your tank if treated properly with chemical conditioners and maybe a simple carbon filter.

 

4) Use your own judgement when reading on internet forums Most people are well intentioned. It's tough though if you get conflicting advice. A lot of the stuff in the beginners forum seem to follow a certain "do this, but not that" formula. While it's not necessarily a bad thing, just make sure you understand clearly what advice you're being given before following it. There are many many ways to start an aquarium. Your plan to take it slow is fine. There are tons of ways to save $$ on your build without sacrificing health, you just have to be ready to deal with longer wait times and/or more maintenance.

 

5) If you're planning to start your tank with dry rock then you'll need a catalyst of some sort. Something to decay and break down in the tank. Pure ammonia is pretty popular, but a little fish food or something works too. IMO a small chunk of cured LR is best though. Once you start the tank just remember to take it slow (remember the nitrogen cycle? it's bacterial in nature so it needs time). If you have any other questions, ask.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you. I'm using mostly dry rock & sand with a couple peices of live rock, to create the bacteria. From what i gathered I think i know the nitrogen cycle alright, but after i get all the physical things figured out i'll look more on it, again still not setting up.. lol.

 

PS for who asked, i forgot who.. I'm using a whisper power filter with a carbon filter media and its got a sponge in front of it.

[TeflonTomDosh]

5) If you're planning to start your tank with dry rock then you'll need a catalyst of some sort. Something to decay and break down in the tank. Pure ammonia is pretty popular, but a little fish food or something works too. IMO a small chunk of cured LR is best though. Once you start the tank just remember to take it slow (remember the nitrogen cycle? it's bacterial in nature so it needs time). If you have any other questions, ask.

 

Good luck.

Heard this works well for getting the cycle started

[patback]

Haha, well mine wasn't too bad a markup @ the place i was looking at, but it was mostly labor that killed me, but 1600 bucks they wanted for outer tie rod ends, one bearing +pressing, a drive axle, and front brakes & alignment..

 

 

 

So i'm thinking maybe i should have went to school for doing mechanic #### and own my own shop.. i'd be a billionaire. lol Except i'm too nice.. i'd feel bad ...

Mechanics don't make much... Parts distribution and warehouse managers are the ones with the Guap.

[patback]

But anyways, pro tip. If I get conflicting answers, whether both are right in a way or one is right and the other is complete bologna, I always double check with my own research and implement the method that works for my purposes and intentions. Forums are great, but use it as a nudge in The right direction.

[Deleted User 3]

Heard this works well for getting the cycle started

 

Hahahahhaha.

 

But anyways, pro tip. If I get conflicting answers, whether both are right in a way or one is right and the other is complete bologna, I always double check with my own research and implement the method that works for my purposes and intentions. Forums are great, but use it as a nudge in The right direction.

 

I do the same thing! If I don't get a direct answer, or its one answer vs one answer, ill google and find the answer that has more people talking about it or what not.

 

Whoo hoooo. Got my sand today, washed it and put in it, now it can sit there SANS water for a while. Some guy has some RODI water he'll give me (30 gal!), now i just need to find more buckets with lids.. but I hae time, he said whnever i need to come just let him know. Hes about 20 min from me tho. Hopefully my POS car will get there eventually. I might start the tank next month or july. depending on what I can all get for cheap/free from others. Otherwise august! Got the salt today too, so i think all i'm left with is the water, the dry & live rock and a hydrometer. I think. I'm going to update my OP to show what i have now and what I don't, and my plan so no one can get confused

[patback]

I would put the sand back into the bag and close it up. Dust will collect on it and be a pita.

[Deleted User 3]

I would put the sand back into the bag and close it up. Dust will collect on it and be a pita.

 

Have all the hole and stuff covered. If i can get the water and rocks in the next week or 2 i'll start that process up, i'm getting LR from a friend Sunday probably, and the water i just need buckets. I'm still debating. I don't mind if it costs me more to run until I put something in. When its done cycling i'll put the CUC in there, so not like it'll be super boring. I don't mind waiting. So.

[jedimasterben]

I'm going to update my OP to show what i have now and what I don't, and my plan so no one can get confused

Good plan!

[Deleted User 3]

Good plan!

 

whoo hoo. Eventually i'll post in the members aquariums section but thats later when i start my tanker up. PS how long can you keep LR not in a tank?

[patback]

whoo hoo. Eventually i'll post in the members aquariums section but thats later when i start my tanker up. PS how long can you keep LR not in a tank?

Anything longer than 15 minutes will begin to cause

Die off. technically

 

 

 

An hour would probably be okay before you begin rodycing ammonia and another cycle.

[siwelk]

Eventually i'll post in the members aquariums section but thats later when i start my tanker up.

If you think you need a running tank to start a Member's Aquarium thread, you'd be sadly mistaken.

[Deleted User 3]

Anything longer than 15 minutes will begin to cause

Die off. technically

 

 

 

An hour would probably be okay before you begin rodycing ammonia and another cycle.

 

Hmm okay. So I should get water n do the salt in it before the LR gets here from my friend then.

[patback]

That would be ideal.

 

Edit: don't fill it up all the way with water. Remember water displacement.