Neutral White Luxeon Rebel ES

[jedimasterben]

Finally, a good place to get neutral white Rebel ES LEDs that don't cost a ton.

 

http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-...utral-White.htm

 

324lm minimum at 1A, and at 3.0v!

 

To compare, an R3-binned CREE XP-G puts out 305lm at 1A, uses 3.15w, so slightly more power and less light. Not to mention cost. The CREE will cost you $4.25 minimum, up to $5.50 at some places! The Rebel ES in neutral white is $3.19 at Steve's shop!

 

If lower cost for more light doesn't do it for you, then CRI may just do the trick.

 

CRI stands for color rendering index, and is measured 0-100. Wikipedia defines CRI as:

...a quantitative measure of the ability of a light source to reproduce the colors of various objects faithfully in comparison with an ideal or natural light source.

 

In laymans terms, a higher CRI means that colors look more accurate to what they actually are under sunlight. More = better.

 

A standard incandescent bulb at 2700-3200k is considered 100 CRI. A 14,000K Ushio 250w metal halide bulb is 70 CRI, which is not optimal, though they give splendid light because of their wide spectrum.

 

CREE neutral white LEDs (XP-G and XM-L) have a CRI of 75, which is pretty good, will give you great coloration.

 

The Neutral white Rebel ES, however, is 85 CRI. This will give even better color rendition, which is exactly what you want over your display tank.

 

 

More light, less power, and a much better CRI, all at a cheaper price, what's not to love.

 

I can't wait to get mine in, my royal blue Rebel ES will be here soon, and the neutrals will arrive along with some cyan, green, and deep red Rebel ES. Cool blues will be up in a couple of weeks, Steve said. Once that happens, my tank should be set up and ready to go, and get a proper review with lots of pics. I wish I could get my hands on a PAR meter, can anyone hook a brother up?

 

Soon, the Luxeon M LED will be readily available. Preliminary numbers are 1120lm at 11v, 1A (11w), while the neutral XM-L is 845lm at 3.35v, 3A (10w). The M is only available in 3000K for right now, but once a neutral is available, Steve will being stocking them, and mentioned somewhere around $8 apiece. The XM-L just got kicked off its throne, too. I'm excited.

[Baroose_Le]

I need a bigger brain but this is interesting and informative and I want to subscribe to your newsletter...

[McJosh13]

I agree with jedimasterben, this LED is FAR superior to the Cree XP-Gs. I had 18 4500k XP-Gs on my tank previously and was not happy with the color (mainly the purplish tint) I had on my tank previously. I tried everything to get rid of the tint (addition of turquoise + deep red, changing my 440nm royal blues to ones with a higher wavelength, addition of cool blues) and nothing would get rid of it. After switching them for the 5000k Rebel ESs my tank looks MUCH better. The purple tint is completely gone and the colors are more vivid.

There will be pictures to follow when I can get my friend with a DSLR camera to come over and take some for me

[Veng]

I'd like to see some tank pictures, or side by sides before I'm going to be ready to dethrone something based on a spec sheet.

[jedimasterben]

I'd like to see some tank pictures, or side by sides before I'm going to be ready to dethrone something based on a spec sheet.

CREE has never had the throne for best looking LED, thats alays been Bridgelux and Luxeon, CREE is only more widely knon. the Rebel ES has been out for a while, just not cheaply available, but now that it is, CREE XP-G just aren't worth it anymore.

[Deckoz2302]

I'm on the rebel boat...

[McJosh13]

I'd like to see some tank pictures, or side by sides before I'm going to be ready to dethrone something based on a spec sheet.

 

Cee XP-G only earned the "throne" because of its wide availability and price. Look at 90% of the DIY fixtures using these and you will see purple unless the whites are turned up very high. This has been the answer to getting rid of the purple, turning up the whites very high and it mostly goes away. The problem is that not everyone wants a 10000k look and if you look at mh bulbs you'll see that 14k is a much more popular color temp. Now with this led, a 14k look is easily achievable and looks really good, without the dark/purplish tint most 14k Cree led setups have.

[Deckoz2302]

The only white Cree led that doesn't look purple are the cool white XML which are 5-8k . But at 2-3amp they are heat monsters and require active cooling.

[Paleoreef103]

The only white Cree led that doesn't look purple are the cool white XML which are 5-8k . But at 2-3amp they are heat monsters and require active cooling.

To be fair, I'm willing to bet the Rebel Ms are also going to be heat monsters. Anyway, I'm watching this intently. I'm running crees, but I would like to see more with Rebels.

[Veng]

CREE has never had the throne for best looking LED, thats alays been Bridgelux and Luxeon, CREE is only more widely knon. the Rebel ES has been out for a while, just not cheaply available, but now that it is, CREE XP-G just aren't worth it anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I like the spec sheet, it looks really good on paper. But what I want some real test data on these things. I can't tell you how many times I have had a product on my desk that doesn't do what the spec sheet says it does.

[Deckoz2302]

More then likely....but at 1amp vs 2 or 3amp on the XML at least save a little in cost and power. We shall see

[DaveFason]

I've always used Rebels and always will. Redfish and I had both Rebel and XP on spectra graphs and even with a regular Rebel the output was a tad higher. Now things have only improved on both sides ( CREE/Phillips ) but still the Rebel looks better to me. The trade off has always been a higher price but things are starting to come down.

 

Again this was with a regular Rebel and a older XP.

 

As of now my favorite LED configuration has been...

1 - deep red

2 - blue

5 - royal blue

3 - cool white

2 - neutral white

 

All Phillips.

 

-Dave

 

P.S - Future has Luxeon M emitters. Not mounted.

[malawian]

i have never seen anything but Crees but I dont think I have much of a purple look at all. I do run NW and CW at 15:17 white:RB.

 

Would like to see these new LEDs though, unfortunately I cant wait for them to come out and i definitely cant wait to get an opinion on them. I do eagerly want to hear about it though.

[blasterman]

Could you clowns spreading the myth that neutral white tanks are 'purple' please go back to Reef Central and wipe the hemp stains off your monitor? Seriously, I'm sick of hearing it, and so are a lot of us. If anything it's cool-white based tanks that are giving the LED / Reef industry a bad name, and cool-white LED's vary in both CCT *and* CRI far more than neutrals by an order of magnitude. If you can't dial in a tank running neutrals to not be purple the problem is between keyboard and chair, not the lights.

 

In regards to CRI, at 4000k and lower what it really means is you have a correct balance between red and amber. In order to increase efficiency in LEDs you decrease the amber component because it's a very inefficient color to reproduce. This costs you CRI, but makes the LED visually brighter per watt.

 

Since 90% or something of all LED's produced go in non color intensive applications like street lights there's no real motivation to produce really high CRI LED's. However, all the big name LED makers have made significant improvements in red/amber efficiency, so we're seeing this start to trickle down. An 85 CRI, neutral rebel at over 100lumens per watt is likely to make a good reef light to build around. I still don't like their royals, but it's a personal aethestic. No reason you can't match XT-Es and Neutral Rebels.

 

Also, just to defend Cree a bit, they tend to be conservative on CRI while Luxeon is a bit lose on CRI ratings. There are a lot of low CRI Rebels out there disguised as regular CRI, and I have a few of the darlings. If the Rebel is indeed binned at a minimum 85 CRI and it's not just marketing BS it's the emitter to use.

[phasezero]

Could you clowns spreading the myth that neutral white tanks are 'purple' please go back to Reef Central and wipe the hemp stains off your monitor? Seriously, I'm sick of hearing it, and so are a lot of us. If anything it's cool-white based tanks that are giving the LED / Reef industry a bad name, and cool-white LED's vary in both CCT *and* CRI far more than neutrals by an order of magnitude. If you can't dial in a tank running neutrals to not be purple the problem is between keyboard and chair, not the lights.

 

I'm not doubting it's possible to get a great tank with neutral white/RB. I didn't just google neutral white/ Royal blue combo's and make statements based off peoples terrible pictures . I spent the $250 for cree neutral white and royal blues from rapidLED and built the thing to see the purple.

[McJosh13]

Could you clowns spreading the myth that neutral white tanks are 'purple' please go back to Reef Central and wipe the hemp stains off your monitor? Seriously, I'm sick of hearing it, and so are a lot of us. If anything it's cool-white based tanks that are giving the LED / Reef industry a bad name, and cool-white LED's vary in both CCT *and* CRI far more than neutrals by an order of magnitude. If you can't dial in a tank running neutrals to not be purple the problem is between keyboard and chair, not the lights.

 

Blaster, there's no reason for you to be rude and why don't you just speak for yourself because I haven't heard anyone else #####ing and whining every other post besides for you.

 

If you can't acknowledge that purple tinted tanks are a problem with many NW/RB setups then I think you are on crack because it's one of the most often reported problems with these setups and you can see that if you look at the pictures people have posted.

 

Also, just to defend Cree a bit, they tend to be conservative on CRI while Luxeon is a bit lose on CRI ratings. There are a lot of low CRI Rebels out there disguised as regular CRI, and I have a few of the darlings.

 

I would love to see the data to support that claim and the low CRI ANSI Rebels you are always complaining about are spec'd at a low cri in their datasheet, just take a look.

[madfx]

Blaster, there's no reason for you to be rude and why don't you just speak for yourself because I haven't heard anyone else #####ing and whining every other post besides for you.

 

lol

I've noticed his posts typically have a pissy vibe.

[jedimasterben]

If anything it's cool-white based tanks that are giving the LED / Reef industry a bad name, and cool-white LED's vary in both CCT *and* CRI far more than neutrals by an order of magnitude.

This. Lots of this. People need to see more tanks lit properly with LEDs before they become anti-LED.

 

In regards to CRI, at 4000k and lower what it really means is you have a correct balance between red and amber. In order to increase efficiency in LEDs you decrease the amber component because it's a very inefficient color to reproduce. This costs you CRI, but makes the LED visually brighter per watt.

I'd like to see someone take a low-CRI cool white LED and add an amber LED and see what it does.

 

Since 90% or something of all LED's produced go in non color intensive applications like street lights there's no real motivation to produce really high CRI LED's. However, all the big name LED makers have made significant improvements in red/amber efficiency, so we're seeing this start to trickle down. An 85 CRI, neutral rebel at over 100lumens per watt is likely to make a good reef light to build around. I still don't like their royals, but it's a personal aethestic. No reason you can't match XT-Es and Neutral Rebels.

This. No manufacturer makes LEDs made for aquariums, and sales made for such a reason don't even make a mark against what they actually make them for.

 

Also, just to defend Cree a bit, they tend to be conservative on CRI while Luxeon is a bit lose on CRI ratings. There are a lot of low CRI Rebels out there disguised as regular CRI, and I have a few of the darlings. If the Rebel is indeed binned at a minimum 85 CRI and it's not just marketing BS it's the emitter to use.

Steve bought the 85 CRI bin specifically.

 

I would love to see the data to support that claim and the low CRI ANSI Rebels you are always complaining about are spec'd at a low cri in their datasheet, just take a look.

I have seen this happen before, so it is uncommon, but it still has happened.

 

I've noticed his posts typically have a pissy vibe.

He's got a ####load of information and experience, and has tried and tried to tell people that LEDs aren't the devil, setups specifically with cool whites hold that title.

[Deckoz2302]

As I stated before.....only cool white to use is a XML t6 at high amp....the nuetrals and xpgs have horrible color rendition

 

Sorry - turned exposure way down

 

All colors ....no purple here?

 

Cool white T6 alone

 

The reason Jedi mentioned the rebels is because they replicate the t6 output....at lower power. Higher brightness and a little higher cri

[Paleoreef103]

I just thought about running Rebel ES neutral whites w/ cree Royal blues and I think there might be a benefit to running it that way. As we know, a white LED is simply a blue LED coated with a phosphor that alters the wavelength of some of the light. Because Rebels use rebel royal blues as the base they have a large spike at 445 nm consistent with where most rebel royals peak. Cree royals peak at 455. This means that combining rebel es neutrals with cree royal blues you'll have a broader spectrum in the 440-460 nm range which should result in a bit more pop than either would generate by themselves.

[McJosh13]

I just thought about running Rebel ES neutral whites w/ cree Royal blues and I think there might be a benefit to running it that way. As we know, a white LED is simply a blue LED coated with a phosphor that alters the wavelength of some of the light. Because Rebels use rebel royal blues as the base they have a large spike at 445 nm consistent with where most rebel royals peak. Cree royals peak at 455. This means that combining rebel es neutrals with cree royal blues you'll have a broader spectrum in the 440-460 nm range which should result in a bit more pop than either would generate by themselves.

 

I agree, this is what I'm running now and it looks outstanding. The 452nm xt-e are the perfect wavelength to go with these.

 

My current setup:

 

16 white: 12 5000k rebel es, 4 6500k rebel es

20 blue: 14 Cree xt-e rb 452nm, 6 Cree xp-e cool blue

3 cyan

3 deep red

[jedimasterben]

I agree, this is what I'm running now and it looks outstanding. The 452nm xt-e are the perfect wavelength to go with these.

 

My current setup:

 

16 white: 14 5000k rebel es, 3 6500k rebel es

20 blue: 12 Cree xt-e rb 452nm, 6 Cree xp-e cool blue

3 cyan

3 deep red

What is your tank footprint, and what amperage are you running them at? Are the exotics Rebels or Bridgelux/Semi?

[McJosh13]

What is your tank footprint, and what amperage are you running them at? Are the exotics Rebels or Bridgelux/Semi?

 

The tank is an oceanic 30gal cube approx 18.5"x20.5"x19.5"deep. They are on 4 dimmable channels using Meanwell's and Boostled's typhoon controller. I originally bought the deep reds and turquoise from Milad, but recently switched one of the 495nm turquoise for a cyan rebel to see if I liked it better. I do prefer the rebel cyan but am waiting for Steve to offer them cheaper before I replace the others because at other websites they are like $5 each. Really what I would like to see the most is a Rebel Cyan/Deep Red/Cool Blue 3-up board.

 

These are my levels:

 

Channel 1: Whites max set to 1A running at 80%

Channel 2: 452nm XT-Es max set to 700ma running at 80%

Channel 3: XP-E cool blues max set to 800ma running at 70%

Channel 4: Cyan and Deep Red max set at 500ma running at 70%

 

* Note these levels are in no way set in stone and I'm still dialing them in to where I like them the most. Also be aware that the drivers do not seem to dim totally linearly (ex. If I have 1 channel set to 100% and one set to 80% the difference in actual dimming is not really 20% difference in output, it is probably more like 10%)

[jedimasterben]

The tank is an oceanic 30gal cube approx 18.5"x20.5"x19.5"deep. They are on 4 dimmable channels using Meanwell's and Boostled's typhoon controller. I originally bought the deep reds and turquoise from Milad, but recently switched one of the 495nm turquoise for a cyan rebel to see if I liked it better. I do prefer the rebel cyan but am waiting for Steve to offer them cheaper before I replace the others because at other websites they are like $5 each. Really what I would like to see the most is a Rebel Cyan/Deep Red/Cool Blue 3-up board.

 

These are my levels:

 

Channel 1: Whites max set to 1A running at 80%

Channel 2: 452nm XT-Es max set to 700ma running at 80%

Channel 3: XP-E cool blues max set to 800ma running at 70%

Channel 4: Cyan and Deep Red max set at 500ma running at 70%

 

* Note these levels are in no way set in stone and I'm still dialing them in to where I like them the most. Also be aware that the drivers do not seem to dim totally linearly (ex. If I have 1 channel set to 100% and one set to 80% the difference in actual dimming is not really 20% difference in output, it is probably more like 10%)

Steve now has Rebels available in cyan, green, and deep red. He is working on getting cool blue Rebels, but there wasn't a good bin available, so he's gonna keep his eyes peeled for them. They are $3.50 each, and he lowered the price on the CW, NW, and royals to $3.20.

 

That is a good idea for a three-up Rebel board, especially since they can take a LOT more heat than the BL/Semi LEDs can, so they can be ran at their full strength. The only problem with that is the red LED has a max amperage of 700ma, vs 1A for the cyan and cool blue.

[DaveFason]

FYI - There is only ES in white and royal blue.