NanoTopia's ZEOvit 80L [ ]

[pyronus]

I have 4 Acan colonies, they are always happy with their feeders out at night and during the day. I suspect there is too much light for them and they would do better in a shaded area. They sit on the sand in between my rock islands so they are already as far away from the light, and in as little flow as possible. I probably run my MP20 too high also, I suspect that running it any higher than 50% is more than enough. The SPS don't mind but the other LPS in the tank are probably not enjoying it as much.

[Gramophone]

Tank looks amazing, NanoTopia! This is what I did when I saw your new FTS ----->

[NanoTopia]

I have 4 Acan colonies, they are always happy with their feeders out at night and during the day. I suspect there is too much light for them and they would do better in a shaded area. They sit on the sand in between my rock islands so they are already as far away from the light, and in as little flow as possible. I probably run my MP20 too high also, I suspect that running it any higher than 50% is more than enough. The SPS don't mind but the other LPS in the tank are probably not enjoying it as much.

 

Yes it's hard sometimes to keep LPS and SPS in the same tank, but it can be done, just have to move things around until their happy

 

 

Tank looks amazing, NanoTopia! This is what I did when I saw your new FTS ----->

 

Thank you Gramophone

 

That was taken just before I discovered some corals had AEFW's. I had to remove some colonies, sadly. But when things are recovered I'm adding some more corals. Thanks for tuning in.

[Kfmmartin19]

Hey Nano...I have an idea...

How about one of these for your tank?

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_di...amp;pcatid=2285

 

The males are sweeeet. It would be pushing it size-wise but im gonna get one for my 30 sooooo...I bet u could get away with it . As an added bonus, these things are ruthless when it comes to hunting pests in sps...just saying...

 

Wadda you say??

[JR!]

the 6line that i got cleaned the whole tank in 3 days and i havent seen one since

[Deleted User 4]

the 6line that i got cleaned the whole tank in 3 days and i havent seen one since

 

+1

[NanoTopia]

Hey Nano...I have an idea...

How about one of these for your tank?

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_di...amp;pcatid=2285

 

The males are sweeeet. It would be pushing it size-wise but im gonna get one for my 30 sooooo...I bet u could get away with it . As an added bonus, these things are ruthless when it comes to hunting pests in sps...just saying...

 

Wadda you say??

 

 

the 6line that i got cleaned the whole tank in 3 days and i havent seen one since

 

 

+1

 

Thanks guys for your suggestions. I think when retailers are referring to flat worms, they are meaning the genus Convolutriloba or polyclad flat worms, and not AEFW, Amakusaplana acroporae. AEFW's are unique in that they are virtually invisible to the naked eye and only feed on the tissue of genus Acropora. I have not seen any documented reports of wrasses eating AEFW's off Acropora corals directly. I have known them to eat them from the water column however, they need to be manually blown off the coral first. This procedure risks spreading and redistributing the flat worm to other corals in the tank, as not all the flat worms may be caught by the wrasse(s) before landing on another host. I have chosen not to blow the corals off in the tank for the time being, but rather blow them off when they are in the dip solution only. If this method fails to work, I will consider a wrasse for the tank and begin blowing off the corals in the tank.

 

I am still open to any article stating that any certain species of wrasse will eat AEFW off Acropora. Anyone have an article?

[Deleted User 4]

Six-line wrasse does eat aefw.

[NanoTopia]

I am aiming for eradication of AEFW's. The link provided only suggests that some wrasses eat pests off corals, this information is vague and unfounded. I have looked at this site before, the information is often too basic to be effective. I am not suggesting that some flat worms could not be eaten from the Acropora, as this may be possible. I do not believe any wrasse species can eradicate this specific pest from Acropora. First, the wrasse may not be able to reach deep into the intricate structure Acropora sp. often has, places that AEFW may be feeding. Secondly, the eggs would have to be consumed as well, eggs may be laid in inaccessible areas for the wrasse to find. In addition, I have not read that wrasses eat AEFW eggs, although they may.

[Deleted User 4]

The whole point is to help the state of situation you're in. I didn't say six-line wrasses will be 100% effective. But surely, it will contribute a lot to your tank especially if it's infested with aefw. It probably won't reach into the deep end structures of the acropora, but as soon as those aefw move outer for feast, the wrasse will be able to eat them like nothing. I think dipping the acros along with adding a wrasse will help exterminate the problem to its fullest. Just my input.

[NanoTopia]

The whole point is to help the state of situation you're in. I didn't say six-line wrasses will be 100% effective. But surely, it will contribute a lot to your tank especially if it's infested with aefw. It probably won't reach into the deep end structures of the acropora, but as soon as those aefw move outer for feast, the wrasse will be able to eat them like nothing. I think dipping the acros along with adding a wrasse will help exterminate the problem to its fullest. Just my input.

 

Thanks IIX, your input is much appreciated here, a wrasse may be in my future

[Deleted User 4]

Thanks IIX, your input is much appreciated here, a wrasse may be in my future

 

Haha, you welcome. Just curious if you had a thing against wrasse? lol

[albertthiel]

Thanks guys for your suggestions. I think when retailers are referring to flat worms, they are meaning the genus Convolutriloba or polyclad flat worms, and not AEFW, Amakusaplana acroporae. AEFW's are unique in that they are virtually invisible to the naked eye and only feed on the tissue of genus Acropora. I have not seen any documented reports of wrasses eating AEFW's off Acropora corals directly. I have known them to eat them from the water column however, they need to be manually blown off the coral first. This procedure risks spreading and redistributing the flat worm to other corals in the tank, as not all the flat worms may be caught by the wrasse(s) before landing on another host. I have chosen not to blow the corals off in the tank for the time being, but rather blow them off when they are in the dip solution only. If this method fails to work, I will consider a wrasse for the tank and begin blowing off the corals in the tank.

 

I am still open to any article stating that any certain species of wrasse will eat AEFW off Acropora. Anyone have an article?

 

Not sure if you have seen this video (dipping)

 

 

And yes based on what I find quite a few fish will eat them when they are free floating but I have only found one that picks them of the corals but may inflict more damage than good ... Novaculichthys macrolepidotus

 

FWIW

[Spirofucci]

Ha! I think you need to bend to peer pressure and get a 6line, lol! Glad to hear things are recovering.

 

Those recent pics are amazing!!!!!

[NanoTopia]

Not sure if you have seen this video (dipping)

 

 

And yes based on what I find quite a few fish will eat them when they are free floating but I have only found one that picks them of the corals but may inflict more damage than good ... Novaculichthys macrolepidotus

 

FWIW

 

Thanks Albert, I have been all over YouTube and other forums looking for information in the last couple of weeks, I had seen this video. I use Revive from Two Little Fishes, this product works quite well and tends not to brown out corals as much as some other products. Some use medications for dips, I don't see the point really, dislodging them from the coral in the dip is not difficult, and I really don't need to kill them at that point.

 

Novaculichthys macrolepidotus, aka Sea Grass Wrasse, is interesting however, like other wrasses they may only pray on other polyclads. I would be real interested to see any documentation stating they feed on AEFW specifically, could you provide a link of where you found out they eat AEFW off coral tissue? If this is indeed the case, I do wonder if the damage, as you say, they may inflict prying them off the coral would be worse than the worms damage. Thank you for taking the time to post here Albert, it is very appreciated

 

 

Ha! I think you need to bend to peer pressure and get a 6line, lol! Glad to hear things are recovering.

 

Those recent pics are amazing!!!!!

 

Thank you Spirofucci, I seriously have nothing against a nice wrasse, kidding aside, I have not found, in all my extensive searches a wrasse species noted to feed off AEFW's that are attached to the coral. One that can get into the intricate crevices of a acropora coral, seek out and eat AEFW egg masses, and rated for a 20 gallon tank. When I do, I will buy one that day. For now I will dip and manually inspect/remove egg masses, as I feel it is the most effective way of removing AEFW's from the coral in my situation.

 

Things will be just fine, as I have found out recently, many "award winning" SPS tanks around the world claim to have had or currently have at least some AEFW in their tank. It is not uncommon these days, especially with thanks that are SPS heavy. They are slow eaters but will not stop until every last bit of coral tissue has been consumed on every coral they deem desirable.

 

I am double dosing Zeovit Flatworm Stop daily as recommended by Thomas Pohl, I may even go triple dose if needed. Although Zeovit FWS product did not prevent AEFW's to become established in my tank, the product may have worked to prevent them from feeding on some acros in my tank. My Cali tort, ORA Red Planet, and blue stag shows NO signs of infestation to date. Zeo FWS is not a medication, rather a mix of unidentified vitamins or other that helps establish a thicker slime coat on acropora species coral, a slime coat that AEFW's do not like. It needs to be used long term and indefinitely to be effective against AEFW, at least this is what Thomas Pohl says.

 

Thanks for checking in, I will post another picture of the A. millepora that I have been dipping and treating next to the original photo in a week or so

[albertthiel]

Thanks Albert, I have been all over YouTube and other forums looking for information in the last couple of weeks, I had seen this video. I use Revive from Two Little Fishes, this product works quite well and tends not to brown out corals as much as some other products. Some use medications for dips, I don't see the point really, dislodging them from the coral in the dip is not difficult, and I really don't need to kill them at that point.

 

Novaculichthys macrolepidotus, aka Sea Grass Wrasse, is interesting however, like other wrasses they may only pray on other polyclads. I would be real interested to see any documentation stating they feed on AEFW specifically, could you provide a link of where you found out they eat AEFW off coral tissue? If this is indeed the case, I do wonder if the damage, as you say, they may inflict prying them off the coral would be worse than the worms damage. Thank you for taking the time to post here Albert, it is very appreciated

 

here is a link to the Green Coris Wrasse eating them (scroll down till you see the image too)

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1832972

 

and a new Zeovit product

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2012/01/18/zeovit-flatwormstop/

 

I looked for the link for the Sea Grass Wrasse but it was part of a post on a message board and I cannot find it again ...

 

If I find it I'll post it here

[neuwave]

I feel everythig your going thru. I've had numerous people send me links of fish that "eat" the free floating worms and the occasional nip off the coral but to me it seems more like a temp solution. A type of population control but not eradication of the worms. I'm trying to do research into acro crabs. If you think about it, these animals are crawling within the acro at all times. Even gettig into the nooks and crannies of the coral compared to a wrasse swimming by. Giving them the best chance at finding and eating egg clusters within a coral. Anther reason I want to find more info on this is because my infected mili was within a 1/8 inch from anther acro that has an acro crab. Which didn't get infected. This is basic observation hence why I'm looking for any concrete research.

[albertthiel]

Thanks Albert, I have been all over YouTube and other forums looking for information in the last couple of weeks, I had seen this video. I use Revive from Two Little Fishes, this product works quite well and tends not to brown out corals as much as some other products. Some use medications for dips, I don't see the point really, dislodging them from the coral in the dip is not difficult, and I really don't need to kill them at that point.

 

Novaculichthys macrolepidotus, aka Sea Grass Wrasse, is interesting however, like other wrasses they may only pray on other polyclads. I would be real interested to see any documentation stating they feed on AEFW specifically, could you provide a link of where you found out they eat AEFW off coral tissue? If this is indeed the case, I do wonder if the damage, as you say, they may inflict prying them off the coral would be worse than the worms damage. Thank you for taking the time to post here Albert, it is very appreciated

 

Here is some more info :

 

Acropora-Eating Flatworm

The Acropora Flatworm is starting to become prevalent in the United States, and has been recognized in Germany for the last few years. This unidentified species is a more aggressive species of flatworm that consumes the actual tissue of Acropora sp. corals at a rapid rate. This flatworm is white to opaque in color, and is mostly oval in shape, making them very difficult to notice in the display aquarium. They seem to prefer species of Acropora that have shorter polyps, and are most commonly found on Staghorn types and Tricolor species. This flatworm is very invasive, and immediate action should be taken if noticed in your aquarium.

 

Symptoms & Signs

The Rust Brown Flatworm can be seen on top of corals, and normally in areas of low flow in the reef aquarium. The Acropora-Eating Flatworm can be recognized by the rapid tissue loss in certain colonies of Acropora, and their presence will be known by the gold to brown egg masses that they leave behind on the bare coral skeletons.

 

Treatment

The best way of controlling flatworms is by prevention. Maintaining low nutrient levels in the aquarium with the use of carbon and aggressive protein skimming, along with increased water flow will help to reduce the populations of these pests. Proper quarantine of new specimens, and all aquatic life before they are placed in the display aquarium will keep the initial introduction of flatworms to a minimum.

 

Natural means of control include: Wrasse of the genus Pseudocheilinus, such as the Six Line Wrasse (P. hexataenia), Halichoeres Wrasse, such as Yellow Wrasse (H. chrysus), Macropharyngodon Wrasse such as the numerous Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon sp.), and Dragonets such as the Spotted Mandarin (Synchiropus picturatus). The Blue Velvet Nudibranch (Chelidonura varians) is very effective at consuming flatworms in the aquarium, but is very sensitive to changes in water chemistry and has a short life expectancy in the home aquarium.

Although the species mentioned above will consume flatworms, they may not feed on all of the different species that inhabit the aquarium, nor will they typically rid the aquarium completely. Also be sure that your aquarium is appropriate for the fish, as some of the species do have special requirements and increased care levels in the home aquarium.

Another method of removing flatworms from an infected colony is by performing a brief freshwater bath or dip. Flatworms are very sensitive to salinity changes; by dipping the colony in dechlorinated freshwater for 5 to 10 seconds and then shaking the colony while submerged in the bath of freshwater, will cause the worms to lose their grip and fall to the bottom of the container. Be sure the freshwater has the same temperature and pH as the aquarium's water in order to reduce the amount of stress on the colony.

The last method involves manual removal. Siphoning seems to work the best, as the flatworms do not keep a very strong grip on the colony. A small diameter airline tubing works very well for soft leather coral colonies and some species of mushrooms. Be careful not to damage the coral with too strong of a siphon. For the more delicate mushrooms and LPS corals, small syringes work very well. It is possible to get the syringe very close to the flatworm and gently draw the worm into the syringe without harming the coral.

With severe infestations, you may have to employ a combination of all methods mentioned above in order to eliminate or even control the populations of these pests.

 

From LiveAquaria.com

[Daniel Name]

Hello!

 

Very nice tank!

 

Congrats!

 

Dan

[Asureef]

Melev shared some of his experience with aefw on his page here. I think, it's an interesting read and his outcome seemed good. Aefw infestation is one of the biggest nightmares for most SPS keepers, including myself. I thought I had some at one point. If you have a tri-color acro, you may want to do a close examination. To me, they are a pest magnet and usually the first to stress or show signs.

 

I'm sure you will win this battle, good luck!

[albertthiel]

Melev shared some of his experience with aefw on my his page here. I think, it's an interesting read and his outcome seemed good. Aefw infestation is one of the biggest nightmares for most SPS keepers, including myself. I thought I had some at one point. If you have a tri-color acro, you may want to do a close examination. To me, they are a pest magnet and usually the first to stress or show signs.

 

I'm sure you will win this battle, good luck!

Thanks for the link but there seem to be two threads going on about this and I posted that link and other ones to that thread earlier today ... but thanks for the post as indeed AEFW is becoming a bigger and bigger issue it seems.

 

I do not have the issue as I have not Acropora or other SPS's that could carry them.

 

I do have a M. setosa but that is a real small one that I just got and it was broken off a large one at the LFS where I go, from one of his display tanks that is full of SPS corals and does not have the issue either.

 

Thanks for the post ...

[Kfmmartin19]

NanoTopia...did u see the pic of the Hoeven's? Not as aggressive and better looking than 6 line IMO.

 

P.S. You are winning TOTM whether u want to or not

[NanoTopia]

here is a link to the Green Coris Wrasse eating them (scroll down till you see the image too)

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1832972

 

and a new Zeovit product

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2012/01/18/zeovit-flatwormstop/

 

I looked for the link for the Sea Grass Wrasse but it was part of a post on a message board and I cannot find it again ...

 

If I find it I'll post it here

 

Albert,

 

Thanks again for the links.

 

I did read through the first link, the entire thread, I may have missed it but I did not read of anyone positively identifying the wrasses in question actually eating AEFW directly off the corals. Many fish will eat them in suspension after they have been basted off the coral. I am looking for positive proof or even anecdotal evidence of a fish of any species physically feeding on AEFW's while the worms are still attached to the coral.

 

I think it was by assumption only that the wrasses may have ate them off the corals. And even if they did, did they eat the eggs? It's the eggs that make this pest so hard to eradicate fully from aquaria, blowing off corals, dipping and basting is the easy part. Finding and removing all the eggs proves a bit more challenging. This is absolutely necessary as dipping does not affect the eggs in any way.

 

I think many reefers believe they have beat AEFW's when they no longer see them fly off when basting. This is a huge mistake IMO, eggs incubate for 21 days, when they hatch the almost microscopic worms make their way onto the coral tissue and begin grazing. The damage on the coral is very difficult to detect with the naked eye at this point. It is not until they begin to mature and lay eggs that it becomes evident they are still in the reef. Then the process continues cyclically for the life of the reef.

 

As far as I know, the only sure fast method for eradicating AEFW permanently from an aquarium is to remove all corals, whether they show signs of infection or not. QT, dip, and baste once or twice a week for 3-4 months. This is the only way to be sure you have destroyed all eggs and worms. Any eggs left in the aquarium (not attached to the removed corals) will hatch and starve to death in time. Drastic measures to be taken IMO, but like antibiotics, if you don't finish the cycle, you may not have killed all the bacteria, and in time they will multiply and your back to square one.

 

Sorry to ramble on here, I think we as aquarists tend to gravitate toward quick fixes for everything that goes wrong in our aquariums, you just can't do this in the case of AEFW's. If you want it gone, it's going to take some time and effort.

 

Thanks again Albert for all your involvement here, it is sincerely appreciated

 

PS- Albert, I started a thread a while back regarding a Zeovit product that was new on the market called Flat Worm Stop (FWS). I started using the product back in May of this year, but only Prophylactic-ly. At the time I had no idea I had AEFW's.

 

Christine

[albertthiel]

Albert,

 

Thanks again for the links.

 

I did read through the first link, the entire thread, I may have missed it but I did not read of anyone positively identifying the wrasses in question actually eating AEFW directly off the corals. Many fish will eat them in suspension after they have been basted off the coral. I am looking for positive proof or even anecdotal evidence of a fish of any species physically feeding on AEFW's while the worms are still attached to the coral.

 

I think it was by assumption only that the wrasses may have ate them off the corals. And even if they did, did they eat the eggs? It's the eggs that make this pest so hard to eradicate fully from aquaria, blowing off corals, dipping and basting is the easy part. Finding and removing all the eggs proves a bit more challenging. This is absolutely necessary as dipping does not affect the eggs in any way.

 

I think many reefers believe they have beat AEFW's when they no longer see them fly off when basting. This is a huge mistake IMO, eggs incubate for 21 days, when they hatch the almost microscopic worms make their way onto the coral tissue and begin grazing. The damage on the coral is very difficult to detect with the naked eye at this point. It is not until they begin to mature and lay eggs that it becomes evident they are still in the reef. Then the process continues cyclically for the life of the reef.

 

As far as I know, the only sure fast method for eradicating AEFW permanently from an aquarium is to remove all corals, whether they show signs of infection or not. QT, dip, and baste once or twice a week for 3-4 months. This is the only way to be sure you have destroyed all eggs and worms. Any eggs left in the aquarium (not attached to the removed corals) will hatch and starve to death in time. Drastic measures to be taken IMO, but like antibiotics, if you don't finish the cycle, you may not have killed all the bacteria, and in time they will multiply and your back to square one.

 

Sorry to ramble on here, I think we as aquarists tend to gravitate toward quick fixes for everything that goes wrong in our aquariums, you just can't do this in the case of AEFW's. If you want it gone, it's going to take some time and effort.

 

Thanks again Albert for all your involvement here, it is sincerely appreciated

 

PS- Albert, I started a thread a while back regarding a Zeovit product that was new on the market called Flat Worm Stop (FWS). I started using the product back in May of this year, but only Prophylactic-ly. At the time I had no idea I had AEFW's.

 

Christine

Yes indeed, you are absolutely right ... many may indeed be under the false impression that they beat the problem, only to find out a few weeks later that they did not, and not understanding why as they will state they they did not add anything new to their aquarium.

 

Indeed getting totally rid of it takes a long time as you point out and it is not clear to me whether those who have infected SPS's actually realize it.

 

OTOH this thread, and others, will spread the knowledge in a fairly short amount of time I feel and hope, and more and more hobbyists will become aware of what needs to be done in addition to what they were already doing that did not solve the problem (t's akin to QT'ing fish that have marine ich and then putting them back in the tank within a week or so, and then find that they get reinfected).

 

Hopefully some of the more authoritative authors will pick up on the matter and do some research and then publish it for everyone to read. To some degree I believe this is already happening but I have not seen any articles yet that are widely available.

 

On the Wrasse, I did read it on one of the forums, problem is I cannot find back which one it was or which thread it was on whatever forum I looked at (and I did look at a good number of them).

 

What may be the issue that needs to be clarified is if that or another wrasse eats the flatworm off the coral, does it actually damage the coral in the process, as if that is the case the issue then becomes more severe as tissue loss will more than likely lead to more problems with those Corals.

 

I did see your other thread and have been following it, and will continue to do so.

 

Thanks for your post and I hope that you can get your personal tank issue under control and not loose your coral or corals.

 

And yes I fully agree that the whole Amakusaplana acroporae issue needs to be taken very seriously by all who keep SPS corals.

 

Hopefully we'll see some more lit on them come out soon.

[Lalani]

I'm not a huge fan of SPS but this tank is kinda hot.