GU10 LED Build Thread (Chinese Ebay Lights)

[Belac]

The RGBs are crap. They talk about them in a few posts. The colors are all strange and they are weak lights compaired to regular ones.

There are a few people who are starting to experement with the Violets, as well as other colors.

[Modder man]

I am thinking about using these over 33gal long tanks for store displays. How many do you guys think I would need just to light them up for the fish? How high off the water will they need to be so they dont spotlight?

[mcarroll]

You know I never thought about that. And I know your right. Because when I buy bulbs for my planted tanks you want something with a really high CRI and a good kelvin to boot, if you can find both on one bulb. Never clicked in my head for some reason. Though you are right there is a point where artifical light just doesn't go and I think anatic is probably the starting point.

 

It would be impossible to have true 'full spectrum' lighting as it is usually called with leds. They have a range per LED and there always will be some gaps. Think I am going to call it color enhancemnet lighting from now on.

 

"Color enhancement." I like that. :-) "Our fixture has top quality white LED's as well as Color Enhancement™..."

 

So I have read almost this entire thread today. My question is....has anyone tried the Violet or RGB versions? I found a 3X1 Violet here...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3W-3x1w-UV-Ultraviolet-Color-LED-Bulb-purple-light-395nm-405nm-lamp-/180892577479?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&var=480145547872&hash=item2a1e09aec7

 

and a RGB here....

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Epistar-Dimmable-GU10-3-3W-9W-6W-BLUE-Coloured-LED-Spotlight-Lamp-50W-RGB-Globe-/281044554034?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Wall_Lights&hash=item416f8f9132

 

I'm looking to supplement my Ecoray LED's on both of our tanks. These seem perfect for what I am looking for, but have only saw the white and blue builds so far.

 

On UV

Wavelength on that UV is quite low (UV-A rays to be exact)...I'd be extra careful not to spend a lot of time around that light with naked eyes. I.e. inside a canopy where all you see of this light is through the tank glass+water is better.

 

Also something to keep in mind is how relatively powerful these low wavelengths are due to their lack of absorption by water. IMO, it is unlikely to ever be a good thing to lens these up to 30º due to this as well...I just see corals bleaching.

 

Factoid: the sun emits about 32 watts/m² in total of UV light (100nm - 400nm) at ground level.

 

That (1m²) is a little more than the surface area of a 120 gallon tank, for reference. If you figure it this way, a 20-long would only get about 7 watts of UV from sunlight. (This is just to give the gist of what mother nature is working with....not really sure how this translates to watts in LED emitters, but depending on emitter efficiency it might be close.)

 

So, inside a canopy and with a wide-dispersion lens - either "checked" or maybe even frosted - it may be a worthy experiment. But it would definitely be an experiment. :-)

 

A better wavelength to taget, IMO, is something close to 420nm. This has the greatest ability to penetrate water (near 100% in pure water) so seems like a logical wavelength for photosynthesis to "like a lot". This is where I'd experiment if I had the time+funds at the ready.

 

Just for reference: LED-DNA has a 10-pack of 420-425nm beads on sale for $35. Not familiar with the seller, but by the numbers this is a great deal. the_jonvh has waterproof 5050 LED strips in all lengths ranging down from $38 for 5 meters. Also a good deal by the numbers....and intensity should be fine due to lack of absorption by water. Running on 12v, these also make dimming easier if that should be needed.

 

On RGB

That listing is confusing as heck....it's for a blue bulb, but has RGB written all over it. Before anything else, I typically cut a wide berth for communication difficulties but would seek a seller who can at least make clear listings.

 

RGB bulbs (since that's what the question was about) are typically sold as 3 watt bulbs. Which is true...but one has to realize that RGB means that each color has it's own emitter.

 

3 watts = 1 watt red + 1 watt green + 1 watt blue

 

What's more, since this RGB is designed to put out "white" light, all three emitters have to be balanced with one another. No big deal until you consider than red emitters are not as bright (run at lower power) as the others, so the green and blue are both run at correspondingly lower output. So, even at "maximum on" a 3w RGB bulb is only going to be 2 watts or so....closer to 1 watt if you are trying to get something like reef lighting from it.

 

The net of it is that RGB is what it is....if you want color-shifting or effects they are neat.

 

It's worth pointing out that unless specified to be otherwise, the beam angle on these "GU10 size" RGB bulbs are quite narrow - at most 30º I'd say. They are not ideal for lighting a room, for example (though I use one this way for fun anyway). I also can't see anyone really liking these for tank lighting. If I were lighting a fish only tank and had to have RGB type lighting, I think I'd try a 10- or 20-watt floodlight style RGB fixture as they should have a much wider output angle while still being bright enough to light up a tank.

 

-Matt

[mcarroll]

I am thinking about using these over 33gal long tanks for store displays. How many do you guys think I would need just to light them up for the fish? How high off the water will they need to be so they dont spotlight?

 

I think the standard array of 3x1watt GU10's would be overkill if you're just lighting up fish.

 

I think I might try cool white 5050 strip lights in that scenario.

 

How high are you able to mount whatever lights you go with?

 

-Matt

[Modder man]

i dont have a whole lot of space, that is the other concern. I have maybe 7-8 inches between tanks

[4ptbuck]

Just read through this entire posting.

Very interesting.

 

Anybody try these bulbs?.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dimmable-3x3W-GU10-9W-LED-Spot-Light-Lamp-Bulb-Cool-White-110v-220v-energy-/170971068495?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item27ceab784f

 

$1.99 a pop for 3x3 GU10. Seems too good...

[Belac]

"Color enhancement." I like that. :-) "Our fixture has top quality white LED's as well as Color Enhancement™..."

 

 

On UV

Wavelength on that UV is quite low (UV-A rays to be exact)...I'd be extra careful not to spend a lot of time around that light with naked eyes. I.e. inside a canopy where all you see of this light is through the tank glass+water is better.

Matt if you go into business makeing lights you are welcome to use that term. I get a marketing % of the profits.

 

There was a thread a few weeks ago about some one feeling funny from spending a lot of time near a tank which they had put UV stunner strips in recently. Personally I will have to admit UV leds made my eyes shimmer/dance for quite a while when I turned them on while looking at them. (Wasn't compleatly on purpose, I also didn't expect that unplesent of a suprise when it happend.)

 

Personally I don't really trust UV lights that are very strong. Seeing as you use UV to kill stuff in many applications.

[4ptbuck]

Thinking about this some more, has anybody used a track lighting, or flexible power strip system for this yet?

I took a look around, and the problem is finding a GU10 socket to plug in.

They have GU10 heads, but they are bulky. A simple socket with a 'twist in' instead of the leads would be perect.

[mcarroll]

Just read through this entire posting.

Very interesting.

 

Anybody try these bulbs?.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dimmable-3x3W-GU10-9W-LED-Spot-Light-Lamp-Bulb-Cool-White-110v-220v-energy-/170971068495?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item27ceab784f'>http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dimmable-3x3W-GU10-9W-LED-Spot-Light-Lamp-Bulb-Cool-White-110v-220v-energy-/170971068495?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item27ceab784f

 

$1.99 a pop for 3x3 GU10. Seems too good...

 

You know what they say about something that seems too good.... $5.50 in shipping.

 

Search through this thread for details on 3x3 bulbs in general. In short, they won't be running at more than 4-5 watts...and they're overkill to begin with. 3x1 bulbs are way more than powerful enough.

 

-Matt

[mcarroll]

i dont have a whole lot of space, that is the other concern. I have maybe 7-8 inches between tanks

 

One GU10 bulb plus the socket is 3+ inches, so I wouldn't recommend these bulbs for your solution. How will you get in and out of the tanks to feed or sell stuff? ...without getting the lights wet??? These bulbs aren't waterproof at all.

 

You could still try out a few GU10's by mounting some sockets and see what you think. You'll want no smaller than 90º optics I'd say...that will still give you a ~8" diamater light spread at the water surface.

 

It's an inexpensive experiment if you still want to try...$1.50 or so for three sockets and $15 or less for three bulbs should be plenty to give you an idea what the light will look like and if you think it's safe.

 

I do think I'd look at some waterproof options like 5050 LED strips and/or flood lights.

 

Personally I think the strips would be the best fit. Get (if you don't have) at least one 12-volt, 1-amp power supply and a 1-meter 5050 strip - about $5 each depending on the seller.

 

I'd start with at least a cool white 1m strip and one power supply. Add more (white and/or a blue) if you like the first one or just wanna try a full setup. (There are lots of ways to do the 12v power supply if you're wiring up a bunch of these...stick with a small 1A power adapter if you're just testing one out.)

 

It may take two or three of these 1m strips (24-26 watts) to light up a tank adequately, depending on what you're trying to light.

 

-Matt

[Nitro Reef]

This is what I came up with so far for my 5.5g tank. When I get my other color led beads I'll adjust the color a little bit. The camera I have really doesn't show the true color.

 

 

 

[Modder man]

One GU10 bulb plus the socket is 3+ inches, so I wouldn't recommend these bulbs for your solution. How will you get in and out of the tanks to feed or sell stuff? ...without getting the lights wet??? These bulbs aren't waterproof at all.

 

You could still try out a few GU10's by mounting some sockets and see what you think. You'll want no smaller than 90º optics I'd say...that will still give you a ~8" diamater light spread at the water surface.

 

It's an inexpensive experiment if you still want to try...$1.50 or so for three sockets and $15 or less for three bulbs should be plenty to give you an idea what the light will look like and if you think it's safe.

 

I do think I'd look at some waterproof options like 5050 LED strips and/or flood lights.

 

Personally I think the strips would be the best fit. Get (if you don't have) at least one 12-volt, 1-amp power supply and a 1-meter 5050 strip - about $5 each depending on the seller.

 

I'd start with at least a cool white 1m strip and one power supply. Add more (white and/or a blue) if you like the first one or just wanna try a full setup. (There are lots of ways to do the 12v power supply if you're wiring up a bunch of these...stick with a small 1A power adapter if you're just testing one out.)

 

It may take two or three of these 1m strips (24-26 watts) to light up a tank adequately, depending on what you're trying to light.

 

-Matt

 

 

Right now there are flourescent fixtures over the tanks, would there be any advantage in switching to the strip lights?

[mcarroll]

This is what I came up with so far for my 5.5g tank. When I get my other color led beads I'll adjust the color a little bit. The camera I have really doesn't show the true color.

 

Nice build - I dig it!

 

If you cut off all your flow for the pics that should help a lot. The lensing from the surface waves has to make it impossible for the camera's little brin to make perfect sense of the photo. Does make the sand bed look all trippy in photo #3! :-)

 

Right now there are flourescent fixtures over the tanks, would there be any advantage in switching to the strip lights?

 

Depends on your current wattage, but my guess is that you will find (e.g.) 32-watts of 5050 LED strip per tank much less for power usage and it may even turn out to be more light.

 

Of course an actual power measurement (Kill A Watt meter) of your current light and at least one 5050 strip to test is all you'd need to verify for yourself. Easy! Even if you just add up the nominal watts on the florescent bulb label and multiply by number of bulbs "on duty" you can figure pretty closely.

 

For reference, I get a desktop LUX reading of about 230 from my 80-watt (nominal) florescent fixture running "nice" cool white bulbs. I pull about 170-lux from 1m of cool white 5050 strip (~14 watts) at the same distance - but coverage is about 1/2 or less because of how I cut and layed out the strip to concentrate the light output more. Even with all that, I can see that I'll be able to light that space with much less than 80 watts.

 

I haven't tested more than the one I have obviously, but based on this one I figure for the white light component for (e.g.) reef lighting I'd need two such layouts to light my 36x18x19h tank at ~12 from the water surface. A bit dim with only one. Probably OK for some fish only tanks.

 

-Matt

[Nitro Reef]

Got my ultra violet led beads today. Only took 11 days, the quickest ever. They're rated at 420nm-435. When I get a chance I'll solder one in and post a pic.

[Polarcollision]

There was a thread a few weeks ago about some one feeling funny from spending a lot of time near a tank which they had put UV stunner strips in recently. Personally I will have to admit UV leds made my eyes shimmer/dance for quite a while when I turned them on while looking at them. (Wasn't compleatly on purpose, I also didn't expect that unplesent of a suprise when it happend.)

 

 

Personally I don't really trust UV lights that are very strong. Seeing as you use UV to kill stuff in many applications.

UV radiation causes thymine dimers and if polymerases can't repair the damage, you'll end up with mutated DNA that could lead to cancers, collagen damage, cataracts, etc. 150-365nm are considered the most damaging wavelengths, with UVB (320-290 nm) causing the most damage to the eye.

[Nitro Reef]

I saw that RapidLED is selling a UV lighting kit. Does anyone know the wavelength of the UV led beads they use? It doesn't state the specs in the description. I just want to make sure that I won't be endangering anything I put in my tank or anyone around it if I put a few UV beads in my lights.

[rafastank727]

http://www.rapidled.com/violet-uv-led/

[Nitro Reef]

thanks rafastank727

[Chino]

You can get basic kits at radio shack, walmart even sells irons back in the automotive section. Harborfreight has them too. Though from experence I would tell you to not get the 'hobby' kit that is supposed to be a wood burner, hot knife, and a soldering iron. I always get cold joints when I use it for a soldering iron. I ended up fixing my old iron and useing it out of frustration with my 'new' one. Don't get led free solder if you can help it. A lot of the led free is crappy long term.

 

Plenty of videos on youtube about how to solder.

one is pretty good, what I watched of it.

 

Thanks man I appreciate. Still debating if I should try this.

 

Off topic, I purchase this bulb http://www.ebay.com/itm/110965393994?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 for my chaeto and my chaeto has tremendous growth. The bulb gets pretty hot so I doubt it will have a 50,000 hour life. The seller is from the US and ships super fast.

 

Only issue Im having right now is cyano in my sump.

[Belac]

Experences seem to be that they don't last if they are bigger then 1w x 3 leds.

I got my blue lights in today. I have all my lights and all but one socket. Time to start on the fixture, I just need to use a drill press.

[mcarroll]

Thanks man I appreciate. Still debating if I should try this.

 

Off topic, I purchase this bulb http://www.ebay.com/itm/110965393994?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 for my chaeto and my chaeto has tremendous growth. The bulb gets pretty hot so I doubt it will have a 50,000 hour life. The seller is from the US and ships super fast.

 

Only issue Im having right now is cyano in my sump.

 

Any chance you can take a power measurement from that bulb? If it's powered like mine, it's only running at 4 or 5 watts. Yours appears to have a larger heat-sink than mine, which should be a good thing. Mine do get a lot hotter than my 3x1w's but I'm not sure they're dangerously hot. (Dangerous to their longevity I mean.) OTOH if yours is really running anywhere close to 9 watts, then you may be very well right in your doubts. Time will tell though - not many people have run these bulbs for very long AND written about it so there really is little prior experience to gauge from.

 

FWIW, the main point of not using these is that the 3x1w format is already way adequate in terms of power for 90% of all cases - even overkill in some.

 

4x1w, 5x1w and 3x3w all run at around the same wattage and all are pretty much overkill for any nano reef. (And a majority of "non-nano's" too!)

 

I think for purposes outside of lighting a reef (e.g. household lighting) these 4x, 5x and 3x3 bulbs would find a better use case. For example, the 3x3's are often made with Cree LED's....perhaps a bonus for color matching if you already have a lot of Cree lighting in the same space. (Having two or three different "warm white" colors competing in the same space can be disconcerting or downright ugly.)

 

-Matt

[Chino]

Experences seem to be that they don't last if they are bigger then 1w x 3 leds.

 

I got my blue lights in today. I have all my lights and all but one socket. Time to start on the fixture, I just need to use a drill press.

 

Yeah, just wanted to try it out since I was looking for LED lighting in my sump. Post some pics when you get that new fixture built!

 

Any chance you can take a power measurement from that bulb? If it's powered like mine, it's only running at 4 or 5 watts. Yours appears to have a larger heat-sink than mine, which should be a good thing. Mine do get a lot hotter than my 3x1w's but I'm not sure they're dangerously hot. (Dangerous to their longevity I mean.) OTOH if yours is really running anywhere close to 9 watts, then you may be very well right in your doubts. Time will tell though - not many people have run these bulbs for very long AND written about it so there really is little prior experience to gauge from.

 

FWIW, the main point of not using these is that the 3x1w format is already way adequate in terms of power for 90% of all cases - even overkill in some.

 

4x1w, 5x1w and 3x3w all run at around the same wattage and all are pretty much overkill for any nano reef. (And a majority of "non-nano's" too!)

 

I think for purposes outside of lighting a reef (e.g. household lighting) these 4x, 5x and 3x3 bulbs would find a better use case. For example, the 3x3's are often made with Cree LED's....perhaps a bonus for color matching if you already have a lot of Cree lighting in the same space. (Having two or three different "warm white" colors competing in the same space can be disconcerting or downright ugly.)

 

-Matt

 

As always your responses are always so detailed and elaborate. Thank you. As far as power measurement, how do I go about doing this? Im only using this for my sump so it shouldnt be over kill. Just wanted to have a bit more than 2watts on the chaeto. I guess I shouldve went with a warm white because its promoting cyano when left on 24/7.

 

The heatsink is pretty large.

 

[mcarroll]

As far as power measurement, how do I go about doing this? Im only using this for my sump so it shouldnt be over kill. Just wanted to have a bit more than 2watts on the chaeto. I guess I shouldve went with a warm white because its promoting cyano when left on 24/7.

A killAWatt meter (around $20 for the basic unit, which Is what I have) is my preferred tool for analyzing power usage. It'll give you real time stats on your line power as well as whatever you plug into it - including, Volts, Amps, Watts, Hz, Power Factor and Volt-Amps, as well as counters for Killowatt-hours and time. Super handy for a lot of things to me.

 

For your chaeto, a straight red bulb (either 660nm or the more common 630nm should work) might even be a good option. With 30° lenses intensity shoud be great, as long as the narrow spot will hit all your chaeto.

 

Also 24/7 lighting isn't apropriate for chaeto anyway - 16/7 should be plenty, and it's likely the cyano will disappear along with the 24hr period. Further, photoinhibition (reduced growth) is likely if there's no night period. People who use types of caulerpa need a 24/7 photoperiod to keep the algae from entering it's sexual reproductive phase - nasty stuff! And one of the main reasons people started using chaeto in the first place. :-)

[Chino]

A killAWatt meter (around $20 for the basic unit, which Is what I have) is my preferred tool for analyzing power usage. It'll give you real time stats on your line power as well as whatever you plug into it - including, Volts, Amps, Watts, Hz, Power Factor and Volt-Amps, as well as counters for Killowatt-hours and time. Super handy for a lot of things to me.

 

For your chaeto, a straight red bulb (either 660nm or the more common 630nm should work) might even be a good option. With 30° lenses intensity shoud be great, as long as the narrow spot will hit all your chaeto.

 

Also 24/7 lighting isn't apropriate for chaeto anyway - 16/7 should be plenty, and it's likely the cyano will disappear along with the 24hr period. Further, photoinhibition (reduced growth) is likely if there's no night period. People who use types of caulerpa need a 24/7 photoperiod to keep the algae from entering it's sexual reproductive phase - nasty stuff! And one of the main reasons people started using chaeto in the first place. :-)

 

Thanks Matt. I'll grab a kilawatt meter soon and give you the stats.

 

Straight red? Ive read this somewhere but it didnt seem like many people used it. Is there any red bulbs on ebay? I may give it a try if going 16/7 photo period does not work.

[Belac]

There are plenty of red ones on ebay.

I got the first part of the fixture finished today. Stayed late and used the drill press and bored out 11 holes in a 2x4 to hold all the sockets. I have a templet to drill holes for wires tomorrow. Shooting to have this powering up by saturday, want to take it to a LFS that has a PAR meter and see what the fixture clocks in at. One of the guys there really wants to see it because he thinks he may go this route on his pico.