10 Minutes a day to keep your water perfect

[HecticDialectics]

I'm about to go into the 9th grade I think I'll know all about that real soon.

 

Our 9th grade school has open campus. That means I'll be able to see you during lunch, you know, when I order french fries, and you ring up my order... then I have to help you count out nickels and pennies to give me correct change.

[TheWAND]

I'm about to go into the 9th grade I think I'll know all about that real soon.

 

Our 9th grade school has open campus. That means I'll be able to see you during lunch, you know, when I order french fries, and you ring up my order... then I have to help you count out nickels and pennies to give me correct change.

Uncalled for.

 

Your tone throughout this whole thread has been very immature. Hopefully mods will lock this informative thread, which you polluted with your great science soon before you can ruin what was initially a good thread.

[HecticDialectics]

lol. THIS guy. End fact is, you really shouldn't be p*ssing off just because someone is giving a husbandry suggestion. That is all it is. Who are you to say that your way is the only right way of caring for a reef?

 

Here, let me quote the most important part of my post you guys don't seem to be able to understand

 

All I'm suggesting is that there's another reason why your tank took a turn for the worse when you modified your water change schedule. Small changes daily or large changes every week or two, effectively, work almost exactly the same, with small ones resulting in a few percent less change over the course of a month or two.

[TheWAND]

Here, let me quote the most important part of my post you guys don't seem to be able to understand

LOL. Think of this: removing a 1 day build of nutrients as opposed to letting it build for 7 days. That's the difference between 20 nitrate at the end of the week and 3 nitrate at the end of each day.

 

It's actually not the same. Either way will work though. But tbh I found the daily changes make keeping a nano so much easier, while it was nowhere near practical for a large tank.

[reefer916]

At 14 I know more than y'all will ever know.

 

Thanks for proving my point. A know it all teenager with no real life experience.

[Formula462]

I'm about to go into the 9th grade I think I'll know all about that real soon.

 

Our 9th grade school has open campus. That means I'll be able to see you during lunch, you know, when I order french fries, and you ring up my order... then I have to help you count out nickels and pennies to give me correct change.

 

lol you are too funny. you got it all figured out huh?

 

btw, i went into the ninth grade a year early. at 14, you are on pace with the hoi polloi.

 

and no i wouldn't be the guy at the fast food restaurant (i am smart enough to know not to eat that nasty crap)

 

you might be right about having to help whatever minority dropout is helping you with your supersized mcfry order. those idiots are used to dealing with adults and adults carry plastic.

[TheWAND]

Thanks for proving my point. A know it all teenager with no real life experience.

 

 

lol you are too funny. you got it all figured out huh?

 

btw, i went into the ninth grade a year early. at 14, you are on pace with the hoi polloi.

 

and no i wouldn't be the guy at the fast food restaurant (i am smart enough to know not to eat that nasty crap)

 

you might be right about having to help whatever minority dropout is helping you with your supersized mcfry order. those idiots are used to dealing with adults and adults carry plastic.

Yes. In my town we label kids like these "Punks." But on the internet I think we call them trolls.

[HecticDialectics]

LOL. Think of this: removing a 1 day build of nutrients as opposed to letting it build for 7 days. That's the difference between 20 nitrate at the end of the week and 3 nitrate at the end of each day.

 

If your tank has nitrates increasing by 3ppm a day, please tell me, exactly how big of a water change do you have to do every day so that, at the end of 7 days, you have 3ppm of nitrates remaining in your tank.

 

I can't wait for your answer. This should be great fun.

 

And for those following along at home, that are actually doing their homework on reefkeeping, check out this page: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

 

And so everyone can put this article in perspective, it's written by Randy Holmes-Farley

Here's his bio.

Randy Holmes-Farley has a BA in chemistry and biology from Cornell University (1982) and a PhD in chemistry from Harvard University (1986). He has 57 patents, numerous publications and several awards in a variety of chemical fields. In 1992 he helped start a pharmaceutical company (GelTex Pharmaceuticals). It was eventually bought by Genzyme where he now has the title of Vice President, Chemical Research. Randy is also the co-inventor of two commercial pharmaceuticals (Renagel and WelChol).

[TheWAND]

If your tank has nitrates increasing by 3ppm a day, please tell me, exactly how big of a water change do you have to do every day so that, at the end of 7 days, you have 3ppm of nitrates remaining in your tank.

 

I can't wait for your answer. This should be great fun.

Gallon a day, I take weekends off for water changing. Normally I wouldn't answer a punk, but feeding trolls is SO MUCH FUN.

 

Maybe after his first beer will he be more laid back.

 

Went to the article. Saw too many pictures that look like school and immediately headed for the nearest exit. Maybe after a year of college you'll find that school reading is more than enough.

[Euphyllia]

LOL. Think of this: removing a 1 day build of nutrients as opposed to letting it build for 7 days. That's the difference between 20 nitrate at the end of the week and 3 nitrate at the end of each day.

 

It's actually not the same. Either way will work though. But tbh I found the daily changes make keeping a nano so much easier, while it was nowhere near practical for a large tank.

 

Very nicely put. I now understand the significance of a daily WC versus a weekly WC.

Hectic & Formula, it's fun to read your posts in this thread. It's making my day.

[HecticDialectics]

Gallon a day, I take weekends off for water changing. Normally I wouldn't answer a punk, but feeding trolls is SO MUCH FUN.

 

Correct answer: If your tank is adding 3ppm of nitrates per day to the water, to remove 3ppm a day from your tank requires a 100% water change.

 

[Euphyllia]

[TheWAND]

Correct answer: If your tank is adding 3ppm of nitrates per day to the water, to remove 3ppm a day from your tank requires a 100% water change.

 

You don't get it do you? The point of a WC is also to remove things that add nutrients to your tank....

 

Why am I arguing with this 14 year old is beyond me.

 

I'm just going to go back to my original argument... TO EACH HIS OWN. Now if you don't have anything helpful to say about the OPs original post, then please, and I mean this in the most polite way, GTFO.

[Euphyllia]

You don't get it do you? The point of a WC is also to remove things that add nutrients to your tank....

 

Why am I arguing with this 14 year old is beyond me.

 

I'm just going to go back to my original argument... TO EACH HIS OWN. Now if you don't have anything helpful to say about the OPs original post, then please, and I mean this in the most polite way, GTFO.

 

Are Hectic and Formula both teens?

Just trying to catch up with the story so I can follow the drama better.

[Formula462]

You don't get it do you? The point of a WC is also to remove things that add nutrients to your tank....

 

i don't see how he does not get that, oh wait yes i do.

 

edit: and yeah this is getting stupid i'm done. i am gonna go look at my pretty tank(s) with actual living corals and other assorted organisms in them. HD you gotta try this sometime it's great . just don't think too hard about it or you'll suck all the fun out of it more than you are already trying to.

[HecticDialectics]

Are Hectic and Formula both teens?

 

Nah, I just said that for fun when those two started to revert to name-calling instead of having a discussion on water changes. I'm actually in my mid-late 20s.

 

Those two aren't even disagreeing with me anymore. I'm not even sure what they're arguing about.

 

I never said small daily changes don't work. In fact, I said that they work almost as well as at reducing nutrients as larger weekly changes. And that's true. It's basic math.

 

All I said was that, to the guy who claimed switching from daily changes to weekly changes made his tank crash all of a sudden with algae everywhere, there was obviously a cause other than weekly water changes... because weekly and daily water changes effectively reduce nutrients almost exactly the same amounts.

[HecticDialectics]

If you don't want the thread closed then contribute something useful to the discussion.

 

If you can't contribute to the discussion, then stop responding to it.

[Formula462]

Nah, I just said that for fun when those two started to revert to name-calling instead of having a discussion on water changes. I'm actually in my mid-late 20s.

 

Those two aren't even disagreeing with me anymore. I'm not even sure what they're arguing about.

 

I never said small daily changes don't work. In fact, I said that they work almost as well as at reducing nutrients as larger weekly changes. And that's true. It's basic math.

 

All I said was that, to the guy who claimed switching from daily changes to weekly changes made his tank crash all of a sudden with algae everywhere, there was obviously a cause other than weekly water changes... because weekly and daily water changes effectively reduce nutrients almost exactly the same amounts.

 

for being as smart as you are supposed to be, your reading comprehension sure sucks. i never said that i switched from daily to weekly water changes. i said i switched from my normal WC schedule to a NO WC schedule supplemented with dosing on the advice of a "pro".( i was fairly new to nanos at that time) didn't work for me. that's all i am saying. it caused my tank to have excess nutrient build up and caused all sorts of mayhem. i guess this is what i should of said. "if it ain't broke, at least in your situation, don't fix it." and thank god you aren't 14, i was really worried about you for a while. although i am still a little put off by the fact your are obviously arithmetically gifted, but can't figure out what exact part of your 20's you are in.

 

edit: last part is obviously a joke. let's just all be friends. that's what this place is for anyway. i am violently competitive( character flaw) and sometimes i can't get the wheels to slow down. i could also tell you weren't 14 after reading enough, i only thought theWAND knew something i didn't. i haven't been on here in a while. the bold, underlined portion is my contribution. oh and the WC schedule was that of my old tank, my new baby gets a little siphoned out anytime i see anything i don't like. i am going full anal on this one.....wait

[HecticDialectics]

Ah, yeah I can see how no changes would lead to chaos on a tank for a new owner.

 

I'd personally never be able to keep up with daily water changes. I dunno if it's cause I'm lazy or busy or both lol. I've just always used other means of nutrient control and export than water changes. I'd never recommend a newb tank owner to never do water changes. But some of my best growth was on a 3g I almost never changed the water in, just topped off with kalkwasser. Never had algae problems, had a happy lil clown goby I'd feed a few super small pellets every day or so.

 

I wish I wasn't so lazy to change my water every day. I bet it gives you a lot more time to enjoy the tank every day instead of running past it.

[Atomic081]

I actually understand HDs math behind this and he is correct. One 35% water change is going to be more beneficial over a week than seven 5% water changes. Its simple math. This doesn't take into account that we want our tanks to be as stable as possible and seven 5% water chances will shock a system less than one 35% water change. It also doesn't address that we can do seven 8% water changes over a week and we cannot do a 56% water change once a week without the possibility of shocking a system. The ability to do lots of smaller water changes over a weeks time will keep a tank more stable while letting you get as much and sometimes much more water changed over the period of a week.

 

To each his own, but there is some good information here. If water changes were not such a hassle and we all had tons of spare time, then I think a lot of small water changes would be great for any tank.

 

my 2cents.

[TheWAND]

Math blows my mind.

[Formula462]

Ah, yeah I can see how no changes would lead to chaos on a tank for a new owner.

 

I'd personally never be able to keep up with daily water changes. I dunno if it's cause I'm lazy or busy or both lol. I've just always used other means of nutrient control and export than water changes. I'd never recommend a newb tank owner to never do water changes. But some of my best growth was on a 3g I almost never changed the water in, just topped off with kalkwasser. Never had algae problems, had a happy lil clown goby I'd feed a few super small pellets every day or so.

 

I wish I wasn't so lazy to change my water every day. I bet it gives you a lot more time to enjoy the tank every day instead of running past it.

 

it takes me literally 10 mins to do. and to clarify i don't do it every day, but at least three times a week. i would almost call it vacuuming the #### off the sand when it shows up rather than a WC. the water coming out is almost a by-product in a way. i work full time and go to college 3 nights a week. although if i wouldn't have thought i owned the world at 18 i would already be done with the college part lol.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

ok so i just cant help my self here.

 

just throwing this out there, but when you remove 5% and total that (which is what happens when you replenish the water in the tank) and then do another 5% reduction you dont get 10%.

 

i cant quite explain the mathematics behind this adequately so ill let this do it instead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage

 

it pains me to say what im about to say....... but, I think HD is right on this one.

[HecticDialectics]

O

 

Hmmm because I started this thread and you pissed off enough people here. Yes, your math is correct, but the rest you need to learn through experience.

 

Again, start your own thread and stop posting on this one.

 

Ok sorry everyone I can't help you with water change information any more cause reefer916 said so.

[Formula462]

ok so i just cant help my self here.

 

just throwing this out there, but when you remove 5% and total that (which is what happens when you replenish the water in the tank) and then do another 5% reduction you dont get 10%.

 

i cant quite explain the mathematics behind this adequately so ill let this do it instead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage

 

it pains me to say what im about to say....... but, I think HD is right on this one.

 

lol i work retail while going to school and that made me think of something funny that happens all the time. i work inside of a macy's but i work for luxottica (sunglass hut) macy's always has these dumb ass promotions with extra percentage discounts on top of sales that are already discounted. for example, they will have a sale of something at 25 percent off and have a promotion that if you use your macy's card you get an additional 20 percent off the discounted total. people always think i work for macy's and try to get me to ring up their #### for them. they always ask me, "so it's 25 percent off already and then i get another 20 percent off of that too? so i get 45 percent off?" and i have to tell them yes, you get 20 percent off the new total after 25 percent off, and no, that's not 45 percent off. they look at me like i am stupid and i look at them the same.