10 Minutes a day to keep your water perfect

[gmckay]

here we go... everything you ever wanted to know about water changes

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

 

 

Wow. Nothing like cold, hard facts and scientific observation to prove beyond doubt that small, frequent water changes are less effective than large, less frequent changes.

 

Although it sounds reasonable that small frequent water changes are good, the evidence shows otherwise.

[reefer916]

Wow. Nothing like cold, hard facts and scientific observation to prove beyond doubt that small, frequent water changes are less effective than large, less frequent changes.

 

Although it sounds reasonable that small frequent water changes are good, the evidence shows otherwise.

 

I didn't really get the beyond a doubt that large water changes are better than smaller daily water changes. His example is on a 100 gallon system utilizing equal 30% water changes and using the same amount of water daily. It's true that if you spread 30 gallons out over a month daily with only a few ounces changed isn't going to have the impact a once a month 30 gallon water change is going to provide on nitrate reduction. However, keeping a 100 gallon vs. a nano provides different needs and as I always said there's more than one way to run a tank. It also depends on what kind of livestock your trying to keep and various other factors.

 

It also didn't mention his feeding schedule or what kind of livestock he's keeping. I like the 2 gallon daily water changes because it allows me to overfeed my tank, which provides my corals the color and growth they've been getting without letting excess nutrients build up in my system from food that wasn't eaten.

 

I think it's great that all of us read articles, which helps us figure out the different methods to keep our systems. However, my maintainence routine is different between my 95, 45, 24, and 12 gallon reef systems. The only system I do the daily water changes is my 24 gallon, which holds over $5k in corals and I stand by the results I've obtained over the last 2 years using this method in a nano.

 

I've done 30 gallon monthly water changes and the best results are from a 20-25 gallon water change every two weeks in my 95. My 12 gallon is a macro, lps, and softee tank in my office and I wanted low maintainence, so I only have to do water changes every 6-8 weeks. My 45 gallon is cycling still and is currently stable enough to add corals, but I don't want to rush things and let it age for 3 months before adding my LE corals.

 

I've personally received the best results in my 24 gallon and the daily water changes are easy. I would do it in my 95 gallon, but it's not cost effective and I get good results from the water changes every two weeks. My 24 gallon definitely has the best results out of all of my tanks and I intend to keep the daily water changes up when I transition to the 45 gallon because my corals are out growing my 24.

 

As you can see there isn't one method that's "The Best". If you have a really nice setup and would like to share that would be awesome. My experience with reefers who post articles in threads because they read something comes up all of the time. You could look at the beginning of this thread and look up the know it alls who read something. You'll notice that all of them are no longer in the hobby or have experienced tank crashes since. Not guys I'd be taking advice from and I'm more interested in reefers who have done their own studies and not people who read something and are now experts.

[HecticDialectics]

I didn't really get the beyond a doubt that large water changes are better than smaller daily water changes. His example is on a 100 gallon system utilizing equal 30% water changes and using the same amount of water daily. It's true that if you spread 30 gallons out over a month daily with only a few ounces changed isn't going to have the impact a once a month 30 gallon water change is going to provide on nitrate reduction. However, keeping a 100 gallon vs. a nano provides different needs and as I always said there's more than one way to run a tank.

 

No, ratios are ratios. It doesn't matter if it's a 10 gallon tank or a 100 gallon tank. A 30% change is a 30% change. A 1% change is a 1% change.

[RayWhisperer]

I dunno. He clearly states in the very beginning of the article that water change needs would be dictated by what your desired outcome would be. (Not an exact quote)

 

So, assuming the OP wants to limit nitrate, have the ability to overfeed, and replenish trace elements, I'd say his method is a good one.

 

Besides, if he's happy, WTF does it matter to anyone else? Sure, some will disagree. Many disagree with me. I, however, have the ability to eliminate them *evil giggle*.

[HecticDialectics]

I dunno. He clearly states in the very beginning of the article that water change needs would be dictated by what your desired outcome would be. (Not an exact quote)

 

So, assuming the OP wants to limit nitrate, have the ability to overfeed, and replenish trace elements, I'd say his method is a good one.

 

Besides, if he's happy, WTF does it matter to anyone else? Sure, some will disagree. Many disagree with me. I, however, have the ability to eliminate them *evil giggle*.

 

OP or the author?

 

Very small daily water changes simply cannot limit nitrates, replenish trace elements, or create an ability to overfood as much as larger, even tho less frequent, water changes.

 

It's basic math. lol

 

If it works for him, more power to him. But if it works, it's not because of the math. It's because he's actually not overfeeding, doesn't have nitrate problems, etc.

[reefer916]

OP or the author?

 

Very small daily water changes simply cannot limit nitrates, replenish trace elements, or create an ability to overfood as much as larger, even tho less frequent, water changes.

 

It's basic math. lol

 

If it works for him, more power to him. But if it works, it's not because of the math. It's because he's actually not overfeeding, doesn't have nitrate problems, etc.

 

Yep, its basic math, so could you calculate what 2 gallons a day with a 4 gallon water change once a week would be on 16 gallons of water volume? I'm assuming the author of the article isnt letting his nitrates get up to 100 ppm with a tank full of sps.

 

Your right, I don't have a nitrate issue, but I don't want one and that's why I use this method. If you spread out a 70% water change over a week you could reduce nitrates without shocking your corals. Sure if we were only trying to change out 30%, but as you can see with this method you change out a much larger % per week. Thus reducing any buildup of excess nutrients.

 

There's more things to this hobby besides math calculations. I'll stick with what's works for me and everyone else who has had positive results. Not one negative experience posted...

[reefer916]

Thanks Raywhisperer..

 

By the way, I think hectic may need water in his tank before commenting on husbandry and the right way to reef. Just another guy who reads something and believes what he reads is the only way. I get nothing out of posting, but just sharing my reefing experiences over the last 3 yrs.

[TheWAND]

OP or the author?

 

Very small daily water changes simply cannot limit nitrates, replenish trace elements, or create an ability to overfood as much as larger, even tho less frequent, water changes.

 

It's basic math. lol

 

If it works for him, more power to him. But if it works, it's not because of the math. It's because he's actually not overfeeding, doesn't have nitrate problems, etc.

I used to feed 3-4 times a day in a NC 12. Before when I did daily water changes, I kept nitrates at 0. I got lazy and went back to weekly 5g changes. My nitrates quickly got out of hand, and only diminished when I went back to daily water changes.

 

It really takes experience before you can become so opinionated about something, especially in this hobby.

 

Think of it like this, sure, your ratios go down of water % changed if you go through a whole week, but instead, you are taking out the nutrients added on a daily level. This actually contributes to a more stable water quality.

[HecticDialectics]

No. Seriously. You're working with percentages here. Unless you're siphoning out the excess food from the bottom of the tank every day when you do your tiny water change... it really is basic math. I mean, I'm glad it's working for you, but you can't beat the laws of the universe.

 

At the very least, doing a 5 gallon change once every 5 days or 1 gallon every day would result in close parameters.

 

There is absolutely no way, if you were changing the same total amount of water, that ANY significant difference you saw between daily and weekly changes were because you were not doing so consistently.

[reefer916]

No. Seriously. You're working with percentages here. Unless you're siphoning out the excess food from the bottom of the tank every day when you do your tiny water change... it really is basic math. I mean, I'm glad it's working for you, but you can't beat the laws of the universe.

 

At the very least, doing a 5 gallon change once every 5 days or 1 gallon every day would result in close parameters.

 

There is absolutely no way, if you were changing the same total amount of water, that ANY significant difference you saw between daily and weekly changes were because you were not doing so consistently.

 

You realize that we are breaking the laws of the universe by keeping these animals in a synthetic environment. A decade ago keeping sps corals were for the highly advanced reefers. The introduction of LR, skimmer, high quality salts, and additives have changed many ways of thinking.

 

Also, you realize that this method has not only allowed me to keep a healthy reef, but many others as well. Math calculations are great, but to say that your way is the law of the universe is flawed. The thread never says that daily water changes are more effective than an equal weekly water change. This method allows us to do a much larger water volume change than what has been done in the past through weekly or monthly. Most of the food can't be syphoned out on the sandbed because its microscopic and stays in the water column, unless its consumed or breakdown into phosphates, nitrates, etc.

 

Once you get your tank up and filled with corals you'll realize that there's more to it than simple math. Good luck on your reefing.

[Formula462]

This thread got me off my ass to clean the tank. Now if only you could make a thread like this every week

 

 

lol yeah there has been an abundance of people on here preaching NO water changes and dosing every damn day. sure that does work, but it is so unnecessarily expensive. i was starting to go that route but i just have been watching the algae build on the powerheads and crap in the sand. literally hermit crab crap. i started with 3 times weekly WC's just last week, and what do you know EVERYTHING looks a million times better than it ever has. i don't have tons of sps either, so can it before you even get started on telling me i'm wrong. i can safely say for lps and softies it seems to work effing great.

[Formula462]

No. Seriously. You're working with percentages here. Unless you're siphoning out the excess food from the bottom of the tank every day when you do your tiny water change... it really is basic math. I mean, I'm glad it's working for you, but you can't beat the laws of the universe.

 

At the very least, doing a 5 gallon change once every 5 days or 1 gallon every day would result in close parameters.

 

There is absolutely no way, if you were changing the same total amount of water, that ANY significant difference you saw between daily and weekly changes were because you were not doing so consistently.

 

siphoning out crab and snail #### is exactly what i think is making it work so well. i just lightly skim the sand to get all the surface crud up, and i blast the rocks with water and let the fresh floss catch it while simultaneously netting any large detritus. that math stuff makes me laugh. i don't know why every time a new theory rolls around i feel a need to consider it, when i know what works and has worked for me for years.

 

dosing and cutting water changes is what led to my last dino-outbreak tank crash.

[HecticDialectics]

You realize that we are breaking the laws of the universe by keeping these animals in a synthetic environment. A decade ago keeping sps corals were for the highly advanced reefers. The introduction of LR, skimmer, high quality salts, and additives have changed many ways of thinking.

 

Also, you realize that this method has not only allowed me to keep a healthy reef, but many others as well. Math calculations are great, but to say that your way is the law of the universe is flawed.

 

I give up. If you really think that you are somehow mystically breaking the laws of mathematics and think it's comparable to the "miracle" of keeping a reef in a 10 gallon aquarium, there's no helping you understand.

 

I never said it COULDN'T or DOESN'T work. But it's really basic math. Like 6th grade stuff... A single 30% change will ALWAYS reduce nitrates more than 30 1% changes. The fact that you had nitrates zoom out of control shows a problem with YOUR reefkeeping. You did not defy the laws of mathematics. You simply neglected to control all the variable enough to realize exactly what was going on.

 

that math stuff makes me laugh. i don't know why every time a new theory rolls around i feel a need to consider it, when i know what works and has worked for me for years.

 

Same goes for you. 1 gallon of water + 1 gallon of water = 2 gallons of water. Sorry. Doesn't mean your "new theory" (it's not new by the way...) is WRONG. No one said it -couldn't work- lol. But when you're dealing with chemistry... water volumes... dissolved nutrient levels... etc. etc. etc., math absolutely rules the day.

[Formula462]

I give up. If you really think that you are somehow mystically breaking the laws of mathematics and think it's comparable to the "miracle" of keeping a reef in a 10 gallon aquarium, there's no helping you understand.

 

I never said it COULDN'T or DOESN'T work. But it's really basic math. Like 6th grade stuff... A single 30% change will ALWAYS reduce nitrates more than 30 1% changes. The fact that you had nitrates zoom out of control shows a problem with YOUR reefkeeping. You did not defy the laws of mathematics. You simply neglected to control all the variable enough to realize exactly what was going on.

 

 

 

Same goes for you. 1 gallon of water + 1 gallon of water = 2 gallons of water. Sorry. Doesn't mean your "new theory" (it's not new by the way...) is WRONG. No one said it -couldn't work- lol. But when you're dealing with chemistry... water volumes... dissolved nutrient levels... etc. etc. etc., math absolutely rules the day.

 

my new theory? i was talking about the NO water changes and concentrated dosing several times daily being new TO ME. meaning i have successfully kept small reefs for for 4 years now, with minimal hiccups. i only started experiencing problems when i started trying out new methods (again, new to ME) well for me that crap didn't work, i watched nuisance algaes boom and my livestock degrade, i don't overfeed as i can literally watch every single piece of food go into my single fish when i feed. i did everything other than WC's EXACTLY the same, only to watch it slowly die away into a sad brown , bubbly mess. do you have a tank thread btw? i imagine your tank looks better than anyones on here because of the awesome power of the right side of your brain.

 

edit: typo

[HecticDialectics]

Math isn't personal... relax.

 

All I'm suggesting is that there's another reason why your tank took a turn for the worse when you modified your water change schedule. Small changes daily or large changes every week or two, effectively, work almost exactly the same, with small ones resulting in a few percent less change over the course of a month or two.

 

The math says you should look for another reason your tank took such a drastic turn for the worse. If you did the same total volume of water changes, then that cannot possibly be the reason. Maybe you just took less care of it in general when you only did less frequent but larger changes.

 

Go re-read that reefkeeping article from May of 2010 that someone posted. They even did the math for you.

[Formula462]

Math isn't personal... relax.

 

All I'm suggesting is that there's another reason why your tank took a turn for the worse when you modified your water change schedule. Small changes daily or large changes every week or two, effectively, work almost exactly the same, with small ones resulting in a few percent less change over the course of a month or two.

 

The math says you should look for another reason your tank took such a drastic turn for the worse. If you did the same total volume of water changes, then that cannot possibly be the reason. Maybe you just took less care of it in general when you only did less frequent but larger changes.

 

your right it's not. it's just not something i need for reefing. i'm a very smart person with a higher than average i.q., just more of my "brains" come in the form of literal comprehension and artistic abilities. i know 2+2=4. but i also know that letting my fish, snails, and crabs spew excrement all throughout my system and not cleaning it up is dumb idea.

[reefer916]

I give up. If you really think that you are somehow mystically breaking the laws of mathematics and think it's comparable to the "miracle" of keeping a reef in a 10 gallon aquarium, there's no helping you understand.

 

I never said it COULDN'T or DOESN'T work. But it's really basic math. Like 6th grade stuff... A single 30% change will ALWAYS reduce nitrates more than 30 1% changes. The fact that you had nitrates zoom out of control shows a problem with YOUR reefkeeping. You did not defy the laws of mathematics. You simply neglected to control all the variable enough to realize exactly what was going on.

 

 

 

Same goes for you. 1 gallon of water + 1 gallon of water = 2 gallons of water. Sorry. Doesn't mean your "new theory" (it's not new by the way...) is WRONG. No one said it -couldn't work- lol. But when you're dealing with chemistry... water volumes... dissolved nutrient levels... etc. etc. etc., math absolutely rules the day.

 

Let me know when your tank "Brings all the girls from the yard"..lol. Could you just take your 6th grade math somewhere else. You should probably just focus on setting up your tank and stop talking crap on this thread. May need a tank up before we pay attention to your youthful wisdom:)

[Formula462]

Go re-read that reefkeeping article from May of 2010 that someone posted. They even did the math for you.

 

i had a fully functioning successful reef well before may of 2010.

[HecticDialectics]

Let me know when your tank "Brings all the girls from the yard"..lol. Could you just take your 6th grade math somewhere else. You should probably just focus on setting up your tank and stop talking crap on this thread. May need a tank up before we pay attention to your youthful wisdom:)

 

Just trying to help. If you aren't interested in a quest for the truth and would prefer to wallow with your head in the couch cushions, by all means, refuse to think about what's really happening...

[Formula462]

Let me know when your tank "Brings all the girls from the yard"..lol. Could you just take your 6th grade math somewhere else. You should probably just focus on setting up your tank and stop talking crap on this thread. May need a tank up before we pay attention to your youthful wisdom:)

 

 

and YES thank you. HD you don't have a f-ucking tank man. you just think you should be able to because "you've done the math."

 

it's like having some needle pricked virgin trying to tell me how to lay the pipe properly.

[HecticDialectics]

Sorry, thought y'all were capable of rational discussion. Didn't realize I was talkin to two pre-teens. This ain't my first rodeo, girls.

[reefer916]

and YES thank you. HD you don't have a f-ucking tank man. you just think you should be able to because "you've done the math."

 

it's like having some needle pricked virgin trying to tell me how to lay the pipe properly.

 

lol.. That was my thoughts exactly.. What's up with kids these days. With that attitude poor guys going to be a virgin forever because he needs to figure out if 1+1=2 or debate on something he read about in sex ed...haha

 

Hands on is always better than reading. At least that's how I like to do things:)

[HecticDialectics]

At 14 I know more than y'all will ever know.

[Formula462]

lol.. That was my thoughts exactly.. What's up with kids these days. With that attitude poor guys going to be a virgin forever because he needs to figure out if 1+1=2 or debate on something he read about in sex ed...haha

 

Hands on is always better than reading. At least that's how I like to do things:)

 

i started a thread to discuss this phenom. i will get bashed by the nerds, but i don't care. the real reefers will get a laugh. should anyway.

 

At 14 I know more than y'all will ever know.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

At 14 I know more than y'all will ever know.

 

and i have to ask. what does the inside of a woman feel like? what does beer taste like? what does having dropped testicles feel like? what does having friends that aren't socially inept feel like?

 

see you don't know everything. in fact, you know ####.

[TheWAND]

At 14 I know more than y'all will ever know.

lol. THIS guy. End fact is, you really shouldn't be p*ssing off just because someone is giving a husbandry suggestion. That is all it is. Who are you to say that your way is the only right way of caring for a reef? Maybe 26k posts? Oh, yea, that don't mean sh*t.