2.5g Mini-Bow - LED Illuminated

[adinsxq]

Originally posted by adinsxq

you've had 3 months. let's see the pictures.

zzz zzz zzz

[chill]

Bill;

this thread has been referred to by other forums in cyberspace-unrelated to reefkeeping. i think you have a massive following...

good work!

[Reefer_Buddha]

A following? This has been done before ya know...nothing completely new. Check it out.

 

http://www.servangle.net/reef/led/

[Gomer]

LEDs are not new, but using these "super LEDS" ..aka luxeons is a bit new.

[Reefer_Buddha]

not really worth the money it takes to light a system unless like this thread its a very small or even pico tank. An led array with just a few luxeons is already into the range of a MH system.

[Gomer]

yes, but as said, the issue of heat is pretty much gone. Don't need to worry about chillers or lots of evaporation from fan cooling. Also, these LEDs have a life time of 15+ years at 12hr/day before reaching 70% levels (70,000 hrs)..the ballasts at ~10+ years (50,000hrs before 5% failure rate).

 

Also add electricity costs. MH + chiller (or fans + RO water for topping off...or the cost of RO filter parts from added use over the long haul) verses LED electricity costs.

 

..hey, anyone want to run the number ($) game? for a 30g tank at 10 years;)

[Gomer]

actually, let me run some basic numbers. Consider a 20g (easier on the numbers. Lets assume 1watt LED= 1watt HW. Lets say you want to run 7.5wpg.

 

MH

A 150watt HQI setup (reflector/ballast/1 bulb)costs ~300. I was told that HQIs need to be replaced around 1year. 150HQI bulb costs around $75 (ushio 10k). 10 years worth of bulbs will run you $750.

 

Total for HQI over 10 years=1050

 

 

LED

Lets use the Star III (3watt LEDs) You will need 50 Stars. In this number, they are 12.93ea for a total of 646.50.

The current LED ballasts are ~ 80% efficient, so the largest 40watt drivers should work somehow (not sure of wiring) for 10 LEDs. THis means you need 5 @ 63.32 a pop.

 

Total for LEDover 10 years=963.10

 

So...over the life of the leds, they are already cheaper..and this isn't even considering additional cooling costs which can be substantial over 10 years for both equipment and electricity

 

(oh...my numbers for HQI might be a bit off on $, but they should be close enough to make this comparison valid.

 

oh....go and tac on some $ for the LED heat sinks and you are still good to go

[Von digity]

Jeebus... Who's really willing to spend an initial 963.10 bucks to light a 20 gal tank? If thats your reasoning, it makes more sense to install a solar tube, which will last just aslong as LED's and not waste electricity.

 

Since these are DIY setups, a DIY 150 watt hqi will not cost 300 bucks to construct. Also, unlike LED's as the MH wattage goes up the prices stay almost same. For instance, a 250 watt SE costs as much as a 400 watt SE; 250 watts of LEDs, will NOT cost as much as 400watts of LEDs. In fact a diy 150 hqi, wil probly cost the same a DIY 400 watt SE. It's really not practical for a 20 gal tank.

 

The most I could see this reasonably being done on is like a 10 gallon tank.

[Von digity]

Even with your blown price breakdown, LEDs only save like 86 bucks. And this is assuming that both LEDs ballasts, and MH's ballasts can run constantly for 10 years.

[Reefer_Buddha]

the main focus for this is just for the novelty factor. There havent been any real results of coral growth as beneficial or detrimental under LED lighting so far.

[Von digity]

Exactly. I thought thats what this thread was about, novelty.

 

I do think it's hella cool though.

[Isaka]

Good lord this thread has been viewed over 10,000 times, whether or not this has been done before, is cost efficient, etc, etc, alot of people sure are interested. Me included

[Gomer]

interesting thread indeed. Actually, it is MUCH more than $86 when you consider a chiller, electricity costs for a chiller, and the wall plug efficiency of the LED vs MH (ie all that heat waste that you pay for).

 

...anyway you look it it, it sure is neat stuff

[Reefer_Buddha]

i use mh and have no need for a chiller

[Gomer]

glad to hear I know that here in so cal,...in my non AC apartment, my planted FW tank with just PCs (3.8wpg) gets up to 86 when the weather is hot

 

I know that I for one would not do LEDs on anything larger than a 10g reef setup (as Von pointed out), but for nanos... :-D

 

Coming from a fw perspective, I would go as high as a 30g tank, but that is it.

[Reefer_Buddha]

if you live in so cal you must get a lot of sun, just make a skylight and have a mirror track the sun and reflect it into your tank

[Gomer]

apartments kinda get in the way of cutting a hole in your roof...especially with someone above you

[DSparks]

As the cost of these "super LED's" drop, then I'll be a little more interested. This is a good thread though. Maybe once and for all we will find out how corals do under LED's. I for one have not seen any real data on this.

[Von digity]

Listen Gomer, theres no way you could justify the math. There are just too many factors that come to play.

For instance, Each company that produces a MH ballasts, makes one with a unique performance characteristic (be it the actaul watt consumption, par, etc..) and with the many MH bulb ballast combinations theres too many variables to just say "compare a 150 watt HQI to 50 1 watt luxuens."

 

Basically you say that you wouldn't do anything with LED's on anything larger than a 10, then you shouldn't have used a 20 as your example. Why don't you do a breakdown comparing it to a 70 watt DE.

 

70 watt bulb $70 bucks (max price)

70 watt pfo ballast 95.00

regent pendant 20.00 (so what if its ghettoish?)

 

of course you could find cheaper ballasts, but I'm looking for extremes.

 

total = 185.00

 

diy PC fan= 20 bucks

 

LED's the LUXIII or whatev:

round it up, and you need 24 of em @3 watts each(actual works out to 23.333 or something)

thats 310.00 in LED's alone, not counting the cost in drivers and heatsinks.

 

Electricity I imagine would be roughly the same. PFO's run pretty efficient.

 

 

I live in southern cali, I doubt you'd need a chiller to chill a 20 gal, with a 150 watt HQI here, even in the summer. Fans are fine.

[Gomer]

I think we just need someone with the money to blow to do a side by side on something small like a 2.5-5g and run it for a few months ...man..where are those winning lotto numbers when you need them :-D

 

 

oh..and not tyring to nit pick to much, but you'll need to multiply the cost of the MH by the number you'll need to live the life of the LEDS

 

 

I'll stop trying to argue anything here...Benchracing specs doesn't get you that far...just gets the interest up to actually do it

[Von digity]

Well, since this is reefpirate's thread, maybe you could convince him to buy a par meter and some other measuring devices, and set it up side to side to a comparable MH source. And do a 10 year run.

But I agree with Dsparks, maybe this stuff will make more sense ONCE prices come down, and like people have been saying, there isn't really any evident research available about the effects of LED lighting on corals.

just leave it at that.

 

Who can really predict the equipment life span? Who is really planning on keeping the same tank for 10 years anyways? It makes more sense to do a 3-4 year run comparison than 10 years, who's to predict that the LED drivers would even last 10 years giving out the same performance anyways? Like I said, theres just too many factors and variables.

 

I mean, what if the prescence of saltwater shortens the life span of the bulbs, but then by adding a splash guard you lose intensity. Tooooo many factors...

[Gomer]

"Tooooo many factors..."

 

That is what the magic 8-ball is for

[Von digity]

Originally posted by Gomer

That is what the magic 8-ball is for

You know what gomer, if you want to assume that everything can go right, then heres some unrealistic food for you.

 

You could set-up a crappy 70 watt halide:

ballast wpi= $30

catalina bulb= $25

cheapest regent fixture= $10

 

thats $65 bucks.

 

5 year span= 5 bulbs(minus the 1 initial start up bulb) = $100

10 year span= 10 bulb(")=$225 bucks

5 yrs=$165

10 yrs=$290

 

So... I "could" run a 70 watt halide for 10 years and it would cost me $290.

 

The cost of LED's alone without drivers is $310.

 

Eat my unrealistic math.

[Reefer_Buddha]

catalina.......wpi....*writhes in pain* NOOO!!!

[1fish2fish]

/Nudge