Collecting animals for your tank - California Law

[C-Rad]

Because of malicious action taken against me by a forum member, for voicing my opinions, I have deleted most of my entries on this thread.

[seahorsedreams]

Is there a permit where I can collect fish locally?

[steviejitsu]

what if your under 16? still need license?

[SPARTAN VI]

I was hoping to collect some purple shore crabs or striped shore crabs from the jetties out in Redondo Beach. I don't see a map for that region on the website and your resources would indicate collecting crabs from the shore would be legal. Granted I'll still take these sources with me if confronted too.

[abominalsnowman]

^Would any animals collected around that area or OC beaches live well in a reef tank?

[seahorsedreams]

No, it would need to be a cold water tank.

[organism]

C-Rad, you need to STOP GIVING OUT BAD INFO on this one.

 

You're going to get someone put in jail, and they're going to be extremely pissed off at you. Have you emailed the department of fish and game on this, or are you just pulling out bull**** directly from your ass? Tell you what, you email the DFG at CalOutdoors@dfg.ca.gov and post their reply back to you on here since you're just not getting it. That way we can all watch you eat some humble pie on your bad advice before people start taking action on it. Also, that way you can stop illegally telling people that it's ok to break the law.

 

I have friends in the DFG, friends that work with Scientific Collection Permits to collect animals for research at their state aquariums, and know at least one diver with a Marine Aquaria receiver's license, which I feel are much better sources than "**** I just made up."

 

The reality of the law is this:

 

"Marine Aquaria Collector $375.00 Required for any person taking, possessing aboard a boat, or landing any live native marine species specified in FGC 8597 from California waters for marine aquaria pet trade purposes. At least one person aboard each commercial fishing vessel shall have a valid marine aquaria collector permit."

 

All collections must be logged with the DFG, and if you sell or trade a single one of those while in possession of the MAC license you're breaking the law without a Marine Aquaria Receiver's License ($1,626.75).

 

It is 100% illegal to transport ANY live fish or invertebrates in california unless they are considered bait or unless they are california spiny lobster and in season. The fines for breaking these laws are HUGE, and between those and lawyer fees you will be out at least nearly $10-50,000 for taking C-Rad's awful advice.

 

Their reply back to you will look exactly like this, but I want to see the one with your name on it to make sure that you actually get it this time. After they email you EDIT YOUR ORIGINAL POST in this thread with the correct info so people reading it don't have to scroll all the way down to this reply to figure out that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hi ****,

 

It is not legal for you to collect any of those animals or fish to keep as pets. Everything collected under a sportfishing license must be killed before leaving the water where taken. The only way to collect these animals would be under the authority of an Aquaria Collectors Permit, and they are quite pricy. These permits are intended for people collecting fish and animals for the aquarium/pet store trade. In 2009, they will run $391.00 and you can see the details at:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/commercial/commdescrip.html

Sorry for the bad news!

 

Carrie

 

 

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~

<>< ><> <><

Carrie E. Wilson

Associate Marine Biologist

California Outdoors Q&A Columnist

Calif. Dept. of Fish and Game

CalOutdoors@dfg.ca.gov

[octoman]

I agree with organism. You shouldn't be giving out BS like this. Obviously you have been spoken to before about these inappropriate posts. I'm trying to figure out why you would keep crying about this. please stop.

[HeyLookItsCaps]

droppin bombs!

[ajmckay]

Pwned....

 

I tend to feel a little jealous living in Michigan and I read about people collecting all this cool stuff from local waters for their tanks... Of course the laws & regulations vary, but it seems that sometimes it's illegal, so it makes me feel a little better about paying my hard earned $$$ for livestock :-) My attitude probably isn't the best, but it is what it is.

[organism]

I agree with organism. You shouldn't be giving out BS like this. Obviously you have been spoken to before about these inappropriate posts. I'm trying to figure out why you would keep crying about this. please stop.

 

For real!

 

C-Rad, man up and edit your first post when DFG emails you back so that people can actually know the facts. DON'T delete the thread to save face because then we're back at square one with the next person that has no idea on this one, and that'll save me the trouble of having to repost the same thread with screenshots I've taken of this one to get the same point across.

[C-Rad]

Is there a permit where I can collect fish locally?

It is not legal to take LIVE fish away from the ocean, so it is not legal to catch fish (under a sportfishing license) and put them in your tank. (There's a really good reason for this, see below) The short description of the pertanent California laws that I gave in the opening post of this thread refer to the laws that govern collection with a Sportfishing License, which is by far the easiest of the three authorized ways to collect. Anybody can buy a fishing license, but the other two types of permits, which do allow you to collect fish (I think) are much harder to qualify for. They are a scientific/educational collection permit, and a commercial collection for sale to the pet trade permit. You can read about those online at http://www.dfg.ca.gov. They are impossible for most people to get, but you might be able to.

 

The reason that you can't take live fish home is so that you can't release them into the wild after they've been in your tank. The fear is that people will put fish in their (typically warm water) tank, where they might catch some non-native disease or parasite. Then, when they see that the fish isn't doing well, or needs to break down the tank, they release the fish back into the ocean, where it could infect the wild population. That would be a disaster, so no fish. They would make the same rule for inverts if they could, but most shellfish must be cooked live because if spoils so fast, so they can't make you kill your lobsters at the beach.

 

***Morality Lecture Warning!!***

Because of the devastation that a non-native disease or parisite can cause to wild populations, I think that we all need to have a strict "one-way-trip" policy for any animal we collect. We need to be willing to literally kill any animal we put in our tank, when the time comes, and to resist the temptation, no matter how heart wrenching, to release an animal instead of killing it. IMO it is for this reason that Keeping Native Biotopes is not for the soft-hearted. And don't assume that you'll be able to find someone who is willing/able to keep your animals. Even if you do, how can you be sure they won't go soft when it's time to kill all the animals they've been caring for? I think our moto must be "If you catch it, you've killed it". There's no going home for our animals. The only alternative is to risk devastating a whole species, or even a whole ecosystem. (Luckily, marine inverts are not nearly as cute as bunnies, so the emotional trauma might not be intolerable )

[organism]

We need to be willing to literally kill any animal we put in our tank, when the time comes, and to resist the temptation, no matter how heart wrenching, to release an animal instead of killing it... I think our moto must be "If you catch it, you've killed it" (Luckily, marine inverts are not nearly as cute as bunnies, so the emotional trauma might not be intolerable )

 

With every post you make I like you less and less. I'm glad you feel that it's a negligible emotional impact to purposely kill a marine invert because they're not really as cute as bunnies. Maybe reef keeping isn't for you, breeding bunnies seems more up your alley.

 

[HeyLookItsCaps]

talk about a bio-load.

[REEFs]

organism YOU ARE THE F%#* MAN...Keep up the good work!

 

Just to clarify for everyone...Please do not take anything from the socal pacific coast and put it in your tanks. Its cold water and you will kill it. Yes people that means anemones too.

 

ps...I need some of your bad a$$ macro organism

[abominalsnowman]

Ziiing! Here I am getting ready to go out and collect (not really tho). Good lookin' out!

 

^Dope sig pic REEFS

[C-Rad]

Just to clarify for everyone...Please do not take anything from the socal pacific coast and put it in your tanks. Its cold water and you will kill it. Yes people that means anemones too.

Good point. Thanks for making that clear.

 

This thread is posted in the "Biotopes" section, and is directed at people who keep pacific coast, cold water, biotopes.

 

Don't put temperate animals in a tropical tank. And NEVER release anything that's been in your tank, back into the wild, even if that's where it came from (it could infect local populations with non-local diseases or parasites)

[C-Rad]

With every post you make I like you less and less. I'm glad you feel that it's a negligible emotional impact to purposely kill a marine invert because they're not really as cute as bunnies. Maybe reef keeping isn't for you, breeding bunnies seems more up your alley.

Another personal attack. Do you have anything useful (and verifiable) to contribute?

[organism]

It is a waste of time for us to argue about this. The laws are all written down, searchable, and viewable on line. I'm only interested in accuracy, so if I'm posting bad information, I'll be more than happy to retract it.

 

You know what man, I've had it with you, you had your chance to step up and read the facts but instead wanted to get condescending while continuing to spread your bad advice without taking a few steps back to reassess the situation.

 

The link is right there in that "opinion" email from fish and game that I linked for you.

 

"Marine Aquaria Collector $415.25 Required for any person taking, possessing aboard a boat, or landing any live native marine species specified in FGC 8597 from California waters for marine aquaria pet trade purposes. At least one person aboard each commercial fishing vessel shall have a valid marine aquaria collector permit."

 

Native marine species specified in FGC 8597, I've edited out the ones that don't apply here due to your limited attention span.

 

8597. (a) It is unlawful for any person to take, possess aboard a

boat, or land for marine aquaria pet trade purposes any live

organisms identified in subdivision (, unless that person has a

valid marine aquaria collector's permit that has not been suspended

or revoked. At least one person aboard the boat shall have a valid

marine aquaria collector permit.

( Except as provided in Section 8598.2, and unless otherwise

prohibited in this code, or regulations made pursuant thereto,

specimens of the following groups or species may be taken, possessed

aboard a boat, or landed under a marine aquaria collector's permit:

 

( Crustacea--shrimp, crabs; all species, except the following:

(viii) Sand crab--Emerita analoga.

© Asteroidea--Sea stars; all species.

(D) Ophiuroidea--Brittle stars; all species.

(E) Gastropoda--snails, limpets, sea slugs; all species, except

Kellet's whelk--Kelletia kelleti.

(F) Bivalvia--clams and mussels; all species.

(G) Polyplacophora--Chitons; all species.

(H) Cephalopoda--Octopuses and squids

(I) Tunicata--Sea squirts; all species.

 

8598. (a) Notwithstanding Section 8140 or subdivision ( of

Section 8597, specimens of the following groups or species shall not

be taken, possessed aboard a boat, or landed for commercial purposes:

 

(1) Invertebrates:

(A) Phylum Porifera--all sponges.

( Genus Pelagia sp.--jellyfish.

© Coelenterata--corals, anemones; all species.

(D) Order Gorgonacea--all gorgonians.

(E) Order Pennatulacea--all species, except Renilla kollikeri.

(F) Feather-duster worm--Eudistylia polymorpha.

 

(3) Live rocks.

(A) Rocks with living organisms attached, commonly called "live

[organism]

Also, I noticed that you posted that "There are many statutes that apply specifically to holders of permits other than a sportfishing license" etc... Just got off the phone with one of my DFG friends who is a warden in the La Jolla area, and he was very, very clear that the sportfishing license is for food (his words "sportFISHING"), and in no way shape or form will he or any other warden interpret it as otherwise. He said that DFG is cracking down heavily on this, and is offering rewards of $500-1000 for information leading to the prosecution of people taking marine life for ornamental purposes.

 

You can push your "opinion" on this forum and the other ones that you're pushing it on, but if you really believe in your opinion as much as you claim to please pm me your address and we'll see where you stand when DFG gets there. He was extremely curious to know who it was that was saying these things online, and said "tell that guy good luck convincing the judge that he was going to eat those anemones and gorgonians." He guessed the fine at $1000 each. How many anemones do you have again?

[Dustin C Mills]

Good information organism.

 

Thanks for the heads up and looking out.

[SPARTAN VI]

Very confused. Illegal to transport any fish/invertebrate in CA? But... DFG says right hither, notably 632-b:

 

Invertebrates, p. 5229.05. General.(a) Except as provided in this article there are no closed seasons, closed hours or minimumsize limits for any invertebrate. The bag limit on all invertebrates for which the take is authorizedand for which there is not a bag limit otherwise established in this article is 35. In San Franciscoand San Pablo bays and saltwater tributaries east of the Golden Gate Bridge invertebrates maynot be taken at night except from the shore.(b) Take of all invertebrates is prohibited within state marine reserves. Take of certain invertebratesmay be prohibited within state marine parks and state marine conservation areas as per subsection632(b). In addition, tidal invertebrates may not be taken in any tidepool or other areasbetween the high tide mark (defined as Mean Higher High Tide) and 1,000 feet seaward andlateral to the low tide mark (defined as Mean Lower Low Water) except as follows:(1) Except where prohibited within state marine reserves, state marine parks, state marineconservation areas, or other special closures only the following may be taken: red abalone, limpets,moon snails, turban snails, chiones, clams, cockles, mussels, rock scallops, native oysters,octopuses, squid, crabs, lobsters, shrimp, sand dollars, sea urchins and worms except that noworms may be taken in any mussel bed, unless taken incidental to the harvesting of mussels.

 

I'm interested in collecting shore crabs (1 or 2) for a biotope I'm interested in starting (but haven't begun in any capacity). Most of this is, honestly, Greek to me. So kindly point out my error if you will.

[C-Rad]

... Just got off the phone with one of my DFG friends who is a warden...and is offering rewards of $500-1000 for information leading to the prosecution of people taking marine life for ornamental purposes.

...we'll see where you stand when DFG gets there. He was extremely curious to know who it was that was saying these things online... He guessed the fine at $1000 each. How many anemones do you have again?

Organism:

Again, you are giving someone's opinion (a game warden) without siting the DFG Code. I've never seen any statute that says that a sportfishing license is only for food. In fact, a sportfishing license is required to collect reptiles in California, and nobody expects people to eat a snake they legally collect.

 

Be that as it may. I'm done.

 

I wanted to start a thread that could help people look up the laws for themselves. I'm obviously interested in abiding by the law. I was very willing to be convinced that I was wrong in my reading of the DFG code, and expected, at worst, a debate about what the words in the statues meant. I had started a reply to your posting of statute 8597, when I saw this post. I never expected anyone to be so malicious. I asked you to convince me, but you chose to try to injure me instead.

 

I'm sorry I ever brought this up

[Dustin C Mills]

Organism:

Again, you are giving someone's opinion (a game warden) without siting the DFG Code. I've never seen any statute that says that a sportfishing license is only for food. In fact, a sportfishing license is required to collect reptiles in California, and nobody expects people to eat a snake they legally collect.

 

Be that as it may. I'm done.

 

I wanted to start a thread that could help people look up the laws for themselves. I'm obviously interested in abiding by the law. I was very willing to be convinced that I was wrong in my reading of the DFG code, and expected, at worst, a debate about what the words in the statues meant. I had started a reply to your posting of statute 8597, when I saw this post. I never expected anyone to be so malicious. I asked you to convince me, but you chose to try to injure me instead.

 

I'm sorry I ever brought this up

 

 

I wouldn't take it personally...

 

He just wants to state what he knows as facts.

 

Now we have your opinion and his opinion.

 

All of us choose individually where to go from here.

 

I wouldn't get my feelings hurt over it.

[SPARTAN VI]

Well I guess my best bet is my uncle, Gary Radford. He works for the Department of Fish and Game and his job (volunteer work, I think) is to catch people who fish or collect illegally. Will let you all know.