Training & Feeding a Mandarin

[pismo_reefer]

Khaymens lack of spellcheck use - priceless.

 

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[Kraylen]

pwn

[ReefKing]

pwn as in collateral?

[Kraylen]

k

[GrandpaFeathers]

L

[ReefKing]

M for the money

[pismo_reefer]

N

[Kozo]

Well Khayman It seems that you have yet read the links that I gave you, since you completely trash Greenstar method, which is a lot better than yours, I think Greenstar is just here to insult and nothing else as I did said before, but honestly Khayman think before you write. His method is some what similar to the ones I gave you on how to train the mandarin to eat frozen. And like I said, I have try it and it does work, and many others have done the same here in NR.

 

Now the method is similar to Greenstar since I put my mandarin in a breeding net cube (Isolation) or what ever the name is, mine is 5x6 or maybe bigger. Then i have a good amount of flow going through it so the LBS is push against one side of the cube, this will help the mandarin visualize this food as pods jumping on substrate and help to motivate the mandarin to eat it. After the mandarin starts taking the LBS you will start to mix some FBS untill he start going for it. Then you will slowly start to feed all FBS. After the mandarin is eating FBS with enthusiasms you can start to add some Mysis (better nutrition), and finally make sure your mandarin is eating with plenty of enthusiasm and eating from the water column and every other place you may think of. The last is very important because after you place him in the main tank, he will not be isolated and other fish and inverts will take his food if he is not aggressive enough during feeding. Also make sure the mandarin has fatten up before placing him in the main tank.

 

Now I will recommend that you also train him to eat from a feeding station like Steve't is doing, or check Melev reefs and see what he did. This will help the fish against other aggressive eaters and give it more time to eat.

 

Here is a video of Melev mandarin eating from a feeding station:

 

http://www.melevsreef.com/video/diner4.wmv

 

And the procedures he used:

 

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

 

I know your mandarin is already eating frozen, but If I'm not wrong she should have a good competition on your tank, starting from the clowns and the dotty, ever your nassarius snail will eat her food.

 

Now the must important thing about any of the methods that have been posted in this thread, is that the Mandarin should be in great conditions from the moment you get it, in other words very fat, since it will go through starvation during the training and when getting used to the main tank.

[revaltion131]

Nice post, Kozo.

[SeeDemTails]

Now the must important thing about any of the methods that have been posted in this thread, is that the Mandarin should be in great conditions from the moment you get it, in other words very fat, since it will go through starvation during the training and when getting used to the main tank.

 

I agree with 95% of what you have said, but I cant agree with this.

 

If you actively train the fish, it will only take days, perhaps hours in some cases to get the fish to eat frozen. Conditioning the fish to go into a jar is another thing, but to get the fish to eat, is not that difficult. It should never be starved.

 

I encourage people to buy starving fish, and actively save them. I have brought dozens of skin and bones fish back from nothing, just by feeding a mixture of mysis and spirulina brine out a syringe, as much as twice daily. Sure that is a lot of work for a fish, but we do that much work for animals like dogs and cats, so its no big deal to me.

 

If you simply pass up a fish because it is starving, you are condeming it to a death sentence. If you have knowledge and intent on training the fish, you are its best hope, period.

[chazde3]

If you simply pass up a fish because it is starving, you are condemning it to a death sentence. If you have knowledge and intent on training the fish, you are its best hope, period.

+1, too many fish waste away in LFS tanks that aren't fed properly.

[Deleted User 6]

If you simply pass up a fish because it is starving, you are condeming it to a death sentence. If you have knowledge and intent on training the fish, you are its best hope, period.

 

But by purchasing a starving fish, aren't you just paying the seller to maintain bad husbandry?

[chazde3]

But if you have the room for the fish you may be saving it from a senseless death. Not buying the fish isn't going to make the seller change their husbandry techniques.

[cdelicath]

This method was recommended to me by a guy that's been in the hobby for a very long time.

He as had his mandarin for almost 4 years now. However..... he has it in a 55g with a 20g sump/fuge.

 

I chose to teach my mandarin to eat frozen because I just don't think a smaller tank can support the amount of pods needed. I am not going to bash you and call you an idiot because there's no need for it.

And I would rather support growth in the hobby then be a know it all.

If this works for you then you should let us know so we have to option to try it. If it doesn't then you need to be honest with us and tell us it didn't work.

 

Bottom line is this should be titled "method for growing pod population" or something like that.

 

Greenstar and kraylen just get loose from the members lounge sometimes and run a muck

They may be azzes but they are not dumb so take some of what they say into consideration.

 

I wish you luck with your method.

[Deleted User 6]

But if you have the room for the fish you may be saving it from a senseless death. Not buying the fish isn't going to make the seller change their husbandry techniques.

 

No, not buying one fish won't make much of a difference. But if enough people boycott poor husbandry techniques by fish stores then it should make a difference. Consider those painted freshwater fish where they inject the dye into them causing death to the majority percentage - so many people are boycotting them that many fish stores have started to refuse to stock them. It's certainly a macro issue but it's not a hopeless cause.

 

Edit: Not trying to hijack the thread. If there's interest, I'll start another thread on this (though I seem to remember it being discussed before)

[SeeDemTails]

But by purchasing a starving fish, aren't you just paying the seller to maintain bad husbandry?

 

Very few LFS's train or feed mandarins. I happen to work at one that does.

 

If the fish dies, the LFS will probably just order another one, they are cheap and people buy them, they perfect fish for scummy shops to rip off noobs with. IMO you are helping the fish, not the LFS, they do not make that much off the fish. The fishes death isnt worth the point proven in avoiding the purchase, its not like the shop is making $100 on the fish.

 

No, not buying one fish won't make much of a difference. But if enough people boycott poor husbandry techniques by fish stores then it should make a difference. Consider those painted freshwater fish where they inject the dye into them causing death to the majority percentage - so many people are boycotting them that many fish stores have started to refuse to stock them.

 

Thats a great thought, but with the new found popularity in reef keeping, it simply isnt going to happen. There is also a huge difference in popularity between them and a freshwater fish, especially one like that.

 

A much better option to prove a point the the shop owner, and the only logical thing to preserve the future of these fish, will be to teach people to feed them. Say to the guyu "I am buying your starving fish, and I am going to save it". Most shops will laugh in their heads and sell you the fish. Then, a few months later, take pictures of the fish to the shop and show them, and explain to them how you trained it, and how they could even sell a trained fish for more money, not to mention increase the sales of a very popular fish.

[Deleted User 6]

Say to the guyu "I am buying your starving fish, and I am going to save it".

 

Assuming first that you can save it. I've read your method and I have no doubt that it works. What would you say is your success rate, %-wise?

 

There is also a huge difference in popularity between them and a freshwater fish, especially one like that.

 

I'm not positive that this is correct. When those painted fish hit the market, you could never find them in the LFS's I went to because they were always sold out. I think they aren't as popular anymore because 1. they're old news, and 2. their inhumane treatment has a negative public image.

 

and how they could even sell a trained fish for more money, not to mention increase the sales of a very popular fish.

 

This point certainly holds water. I would even say that if you have a sure method for training them, YOU should be selling them The only thing I doubt is if the fish store will be able to reap a large enough profit on a trained mandarin to make the additional effort in training it worth it. As you said, they aren't making a huge profit off each individual fish already.

[SeeDemTails]

Assuming first that you can save it. I've read your method and I have no doubt that it works. What would you say is your success rate, %-wise?

 

No joke, 100%. I have trained over 30 fish and have never failed or lost a fish, even those that were skin and bones, green and spotted. I have also helped at least that many people on the internet, go two more PM's today, and none of the people I have helped have reported a failure to me.

 

This point certainly holds water. I would even say that if you have a sure method for training them, YOU should be selling them The only thing I doubt is if the fish store will be able to reap a large enough profit on a trained mandarin to make the additional effort in training it worth it. As you said, they aren't making a huge profit off each individual fish already.

 

I am selling them, I work at a LFS! We not only train them, but show our customers how to feed them and make them buy the right food along with the fish.

 

I would venture to say a LFS could make at least twice as much profit off a trained fish, and that would be something most people would happily pay. Plus, not only is it easy to do so it isnt that much effort, but it is the shear responsibility of the shop to care for its animals. Most crappy shops dont see things this way, but they do see things in a $$$ kinda way, and if training the fish mean more money, then they are down. It just so happens to help the fish in this case too.

[Doolz]

Kozo

 

Thank you for your post yet again. I may try this feeding station technique along with adding pods. MY Red Mandarine eats frozen as I have stated in the past. I have been adding a mix of Mysis, Brine, and daphnia twice a day for the last 2 weeks. I was originally afraid my nitrates would go up and other tank parameters. The parameters are still unchanged. I do however agree that a feeding station would atleast be a much cleaner way of feeding. Also since I do not have the ability to keep larger fish in my 24G it should be easier for me.

 

I will have to disagree with my method being similar to Greenstars. I disagree because my Mandarine was bought already eating frozen. The breeder trained it before I ever purchased her. I was aloud to assist in this training and I can say it was not done by throwing a lot frozen food in the tank and hoping they might eat if you starve them long enough.

 

I will still continue to add pods via the condos as well. She seems to look forward to the pod filled Condo. She swims right to the area I place it as soon as she sees it. I also will continue adding live baby brine shrimp, all the fish and coral in my tank seem to really enjoy them

[Khayman]

Sorry for the last post it was I. Doolz is a friend of mine who used my computer to access his thread and never logged out. I posted before I realized that he was signed in.

[Deleted User 6]

Most crappy shops dont see things this way, but they do see things in a $$$ kinda way, and if training the fish mean more money, then they are down. It just so happens to help the fish in this case too.

 

Why I'm a Libertarian. Thanks for the discussion SDT.

[SeeDemTails]

Not a problem enjoyed it!

[Khayman]

SeeDemTails

 

Thank you for all your insight. If you were able to elaborate on your techniques it would be appreciated. I am sure we will understand if you cannot since you do work for a retailer. The breeder I purchased my Mandarine from has asked me not to post what they do to train. I respect that seeing that they do try and make money by selling Mandarines that eat frozen. Though I will say it is meant as a supplement. They told me that they do believe they could live on frozen alone but they do not suggest it. That is why I am culturing pods and Brine. The Brine is a lot easier to hatch and keep than the pods.

[13angels]

I agree with seedemtails but imho you, doing everything possible to keep a mandaring alive and maybe have it thrive, will only convince the dealer to order more so that next time a soccer mom buys the newly arrived fish and does nothing at all but feed it flakes and has it die. same thing for the other three fish on that shipment.

[Greenstar]

I will have to disagree with my method being similar to Greenstars. I disagree because my Mandarine was bought already eating frozen. The breeder trained it before I ever purchased her. I was aloud to assist in this training and I can say it was not done by throwing a lot frozen food in the tank and hoping they might eat if you starve them long enough.

 

Pretty sure only one person has successfully bred and reared Mandarins, would you care to elaborate which breeder you are refering to? Also time and experience has proven that my method works given the procedure is carried out correctly. I never said place the food in the tank, your supposed to place it in a smaller container, such as a little cube and place the food in that. Its ####ing mandarin, no E.