DIY 24 x 24 x 20 tank (glass from Nano paul)

[Reefaholic]

I have not been able to find any dow silicone that the data sheet did not say not recommended for prolonged Immersion.

 

Maeda, Do you have more information on that particular silicone?

 

I have E-mailed Dow Corning to see what they say.

 

Please let us know what you hear back from them. I don't know where exactly I saw it, but in my many google searches I do remember coming across information. It was very brief and did not go into any details though. I'd prefer to use the Dow Corning though if it can be confirmed by Dow that it is safe for aquarium use.

[tperkins]

Please let us know what you hear back from them. I don't know where exactly I saw it, but in my many google searches I do remember coming across information. It was very brief and did not go into any details though. I'd prefer to use the Dow Corning though if it can be confirmed by Dow that it is safe for aquarium use.

 

 

I'll let ya know what they say. every sheet I read said the same thing. Not recommended for prolonged immersion. it did not specify marine or aquarium use and did not give a specific reason. each sheet also said it was ozone, UV and water resistant. keep in mind these are the Dow Corning sheets not the ones cited above from Colorado Steel sash company.

 

I also could not find any information on an aquarium safe silicone on Dow's website except to find a couple stores selling small tubes of it.

 

If the tank was not rimless and mostly braceless I wouldn't be concern but you guys have me a little concerned now.

[Reefaholic]

I'll let ya know what they say. every sheet I read said the same thing. Not recommended for prolonged immersion. it did not specify marine or aquarium use and did not give a specific reason. each sheet also said it was ozone, UV and water resistant. keep in mind these are the Dow Corning sheets not the ones cited above from Colorado Steel sash company.

 

I also could not find any information on an aquarium safe silicone on Dow's website except to find a couple stores selling small tubes of it.

 

If the tank was not rimless and mostly braceless I wouldn't be concern but you guys have me a little concerned now.

 

It's better to find out about it now than after it's sitting in your living room full of water.

 

The rim on mine will just be a wood one to match the stand and not really for strength so I'm looking for something that will hold it long term with no rim.

[FateX9]

just found this thread and gotta say nice tank

hope the silicon works out for ya and cant wait to see this completed and cycling

[tperkins]

More Progress!

 

Tonight we drilled the tank.

 

 

 

And then began to silicone in the Calfo style overflow

 

 

 

I'll be finishing up the overflow tomorrow. We plan on starting the leak test on Thursday evening.

 

After thinking more on the silicone issue I am not that worried. I know other reefers have used this silicone before.

[DudE31]

can't wait to see this up a running nice work so far

[badphish]

i'm thinking of building a tank soon and i was wondering ,what is the purpose of the dowel rods?and do the side panels sit on top of the bottom or but up to the bottom panel.

[tperkins]

i'm thinking of building a tank soon and i was wondering ,what is the purpose of the dowel rods?and do the side panels sit on top of the bottom or but up to the bottom panel.

 

The dowel rods were to keep the bottom pane of glass evenly suspended above the flat surface we were building the tank on. You want all the weight of the tank supported by the sides and not the bottom pane. If it sat flat on the bottom pane it could stress fracture.

[Matty1124]

what did you use to drill the tank with? a whole saw or a dremel? looks killer by the way

[tperkins]

what did you use to drill the tank with? a whole saw or a dremel? looks killer by the way

 

 

Thanks! I bought a hole saw from a guy on ebay. took about 2 weeks to get here.

[jman77]

Hi paul,

 

u have pm

[adinsxq]

calfo overflow nice

[tperkins]

calfo overflow nice

 

I chose the calfo style overflow because of the added benefit (no matter how slight) of getting rid of accumulated surface proteins. I have decided to do the recirc mod on my ASM skimmer and have at least one of the drains of the tank feed directly into the skimmer to increase the efficiency.

 

I am also toying with the idea of running the output of my UV back into the skimmer as well. UV is known to do more than kill bacteria and algae. It makes certain un-skimmable things skimmable so I figure if I can dump the output of the UV directly back into the skimmer it will have a chance to skim some of those bad things out before they go back to the display.

[tperkins]

I'm planning on building an aquarium and have been researching silicone. I did a google search on Dow Corning 999 and according to Colorado Steel Sash Company, 999 is not to be used in applications involving "prolonged submersion in water (i.e., marine or aquarium applications)." It doesn't say why, but since it said explicitly don't use it for aquariums, I thought I'd share before you got too far along in the project.

 

 

A club member pointed this online article out to me after reading this thread.

 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/2781...glass-tank.html

 

I'll cut and paste the excerpt thats most interesting.

 

"More information on silicone

I spent an hour an hour on the phone with an industrial application silicone guru at GE, and got the real low down on silicone. Here are some fun facts from that call:

 

1) No manufacturer will tell you their silicone works underwater, since they all degrade underwater over time. Only someone OEM'ing silicone will make that claim.

 

2) Silicone's primary strength is to itself, not what it is bonded too. So if it starts to pull away in a spot in an aquarium, it is almost certainly not going to "snap" with the tension, creating only a small leak. It will hold together in one piece and if more pressure is applied will continue to tear away from the glass instead, creating a potentially catastrophic leak instead.

 

3) GE’s SCS1200 has their highest adhesion strength, twice that of their commercial grades, and an unspecified amount over their consumer grades.

 

4) Silicone's adhesion strength in general does not approach its tensile strength. If you lay down a bead on top of some glass, you will be able to pull it up much easier than getting it to snap while pulling it.

 

5) The aquarium application requires silicones weakest strength, adhesion. This explains why all tank manufacturers all lay down a nice wide seam along the bottom edges of the tank. That's not just to fight water pressure, that's also to provide more adhesion surface to keep the bottom edges from ripping apart.

 

6) Silicone bonds very well to silicone, but much less well to anything else... like glass.

 

7) SCS1200 will only cure to a 1/4" depth. So under 1/2" thick glass, there can be no excess on either side while it cures. And that is 5 days at 50% humidity - more days if the humidity is lower. "

 

 

Point number 1 is the same conclusion I had come to in my previous post.

Not saying this is gospel but just another bit of information.

[supernip]

isnt glass basically silicone dioxide?

[Reefaholic]

Thanks, lots of usefull information in that thread. Will be doing a lot of reading and practice on a small tank before doing my 75.

[tperkins]

Thanks, lots of usefull information in that thread. Will be doing a lot of reading and practice on a small tank before doing my 75.

 

 

I found it a good read also. I just wish I had had more practice at applying the silicone before I did this main tank. I think a few of the seams could look a little better. I think in the long run I wont even notice them as I'll just be looking at all the pretty SPS!

[tperkins]

Got a reply from DOW this morning.

 

"Dow Corning does not recommend the use of silicone materials for underwater applications. Silicones are permeable and the potential for loss of adhesion exists. For underwater urethanes you can contact Sika @ 800-688-7452 or Bostic @ 800-726-7845. These companies may have a product that will work for your application. Thank you for your interest in Dow Corning products.

 

Thank you for your inquiry."

 

 

Thats the entire email. Are urethanes even reef safe? I'll have to search the Intrawebs for more information.

[Reefaholic]

Got a reply from DOW this morning.

 

"Dow Corning does not recommend the use of silicone materials for underwater applications. Silicones are permeable and the potential for loss of adhesion exists. For underwater urethanes you can contact Sika @ 800-688-7452 or Bostic @ 800-726-7845. These companies may have a product that will work for your application. Thank you for your interest in Dow Corning products.

 

Thank you for your inquiry."

Thats the entire email. Are urethanes even reef safe? I'll have to search the Intrawebs for more information.

 

Urethanes? I've never heard of that being used to hold an aquarium together. I would think that if it was better suited than silicone we'd see a lot more aquariums out there built with it. I think it comes back down to "No manufacturer will tell you their silicone works underwater...".

 

Did you build the sides on top of the bottom or the bottom inside the sides? I know the sides go between the front and back piece.

 

Also would you suggest drilling the holes for the bulkheads before or after assembling the tank?

 

I'm getting some glass cut to make a couple of small cubes to practice on. I have a few tubes of AGA silicone which I will use for those. Paul is supposed to be receiving my glass for my 75 this week and hopefully shipping out next week when he gets back from vacation if nothing is wrong with them. I had originally measured the glass to have the 4 sides sit on the top of the bottom piece like the guy in that thread had done but after reading through that thread putting the bottom inside the side pieces seems easier/more logical. So I pm'd Paul to see if he could cut the bottom piece down 3/4" in length and width. If not I'll just order another piece for the bottom in the correct size.

[tperkins]

Urethanes? I've never heard of that being used to hold an aquarium together. I would think that if it was better suited than silicone we'd see a lot more aquariums out there built with it. I think it comes back down to "No manufacturer will tell you their silicone works underwater...".

 

Did you build the sides on top of the bottom or the bottom inside the sides? I know the sides go between the front and back piece.

 

Also would you suggest drilling the holes for the bulkheads before or after assembling the tank?

 

I'm getting some glass cut to make a couple of small cubes to practice on. I have a few tubes of AGA silicone which I will use for those. Paul is supposed to be receiving my glass for my 75 this week and hopefully shipping out next week when he gets back from vacation if nothing is wrong with them. I had originally measured the glass to have the 4 sides sit on the top of the bottom piece like the guy in that thread had done but after reading through that thread putting the bottom inside the side pieces seems easier/more logical. So I pm'd Paul to see if he could cut the bottom piece down 3/4" in length and width. If not I'll just order another piece for the bottom in the correct size.

 

HUH Urethanes? thats exactly what I thought when I 1st read it.

 

 

I used GARF for my tank calculations and I agree with them that the support should come form the sides and not the bottom. IIRC and you look at most pre made manufacturer glass tanks they so not sit on the bottom pane but are raised up about 1.4 inch and then trim is placed on the edges.

 

If you know where you want the holes I would suggest you have Paul drill them for you before he ships out the glass. that way the holes are drilled and you don't take the chance of breaking the glass. I did not know exactly where I wanted the holes so that was not an option for me.

 

If I ever do it again I'll have Paul drill the holes before he ships them too me.

 

the practice tanks are a great idea. I wish I had a little more experience in siliconing seams together before I did this project, the seams came out good but not great.

 

I am looking forward to your tank thread!

[Reefaholic]

HUH Urethanes? thats exactly what I thought when I 1st read it.

I used GARF for my tank calculations and I agree with them that the support should come form the sides and not the bottom. IIRC and you look at most pre made manufacturer glass tanks they so not sit on the bottom pane but are raised up about 1.4 inch and then trim is placed on the edges.

 

If you know where you want the holes I would suggest you have Paul drill them for you before he ships out the glass. that way the holes are drilled and you don't take the chance of breaking the glass. I did not know exactly where I wanted the holes so that was not an option for me.

 

If I ever do it again I'll have Paul drill the holes before he ships them too me.

 

the practice tanks are a great idea. I wish I had a little more experience in siliconing seams together before I did this project, the seams came out good but not great.

 

I am looking forward to your tank thread!

 

I don't know the exact locations I want the holes yet but I have several local places that can drill them for about $10/hole. I will not be drilling them myself.

 

As far as the tank specs, I ordered the front and sides starphire. The back and bottom are standard float glass. It will have a closed loop with a Dart pump and Oceans Motions 4-way. I'm still trying to decide where I want the overflow located and the exact location of the holes for the closed loop. Lighting will be the Current USA orbit dual 250 Watt MH/4 T5/18 Lunar Light fixture.

[Reefaholic]

I had also sent them an e-mail about it the other day and just got this response.

 

Thank you for your inquiry. Dow Corning does not produce a product specifically for aquarium use/manufacture. Our sealant partner Dap does market an aquarium sealant called- DAP® Aquarium Sealant. Dow Corning does not warrant any of our sealants, purchased as Dow Corning brand, for these applications. The DAP product likely has specific product information and warranty details.

 

If you follow up with DAP (www.dap.com) for their aquarium sealant, you may likely find that they only recommend the product for 30 gallon or less and less than 18" of water height. Again DAP will have specific documentation for their material.

[Reefaholic]

Not to get to far off topic of tperkins tank build but I just came across this silicone. http://www.nucoinc.com/333.html . I had never heard of this before. One of the few I've seen that specifically says for aquarium use up to 100 Gallons. Anyone ever use it?

 

Heck maybe I should just start a silicone thread.

[neanderthalman]

isnt glass basically silicone dioxide?

 

It's Silicon dioxide. Silicon and silicone are very different. Silicon is an element, element 14 to be precise. Silicone is a polymer that uses a Silicon and Oxygen backbone, like this:

 

Si - O - Si - O - Si - O

 

The properties of silicone depend mainly on any attached functional groups and cross-linking of strands. By changing them they can make anything from a silicone glue to a silicone lubricant.

 

I know. Nerding in progress.

 

 

BTW, you're making me ridiculously jealous with your custom tank. Can't wait to see some water in there.

[tperkins]

Can't wait to see some water in there.

 

You and me both. fresh water going in tomorrow after work. Anyone have an recommendations on length of time to leak test before I go ahead with the project?