humane way to kill fish

[andykee]

if you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO go high tech, garbage disposal is the next step up from the toilet, i guess...

ugh. no way

contrary to popular belief, garbage disposals do not have spinnng blades. they use centrifugal force to throw the food (or whatever) into a shredder on the outer surface of the disposal, slowly chopping and dismembering it until it fits through the exit holes. i'd rather be flushed to be honest.

[Tentacles]

if anyone still is interested in the topic, i think the question was most humane not fastest, RDT is the fastest, BUT definitely not the most humane. ill quote the freezer from wilkerson's clownfishes if you want as being the most humane, put it in a dish and when it gets slowly colder it just goes to sleep, feels no pain. Im not sure about the whole hitting it real hard thing, but you have about a 1% chance of hitting it right to kill it instantly (unless you stomp it or throw it against a wall or something) and thats sick anyway.

 

edit: and i dont think theres a way to prove rdt is the best anyway, who or what has died from hard impact and come back to say hey that wasnt so bad.

[HecticDialectics]

if anyone still is interested in the topic, i think the question was most humane not fastest, RDT is the fastest, BUT definitely not the most humane. ill quote the freezer from wilkerson's clownfishes if you want as being the most humane, put it in a dish and when it gets slowly colder it just goes to sleep, feels no pain. Im not sure about the whole hitting it real hard thing, but you have about a 1% chance of hitting it right to kill it instantly (unless you stomp it or throw it against a wall or something) and thats sick anyway.

 

edit: and i dont think theres a way to prove rdt is the best anyway, who or what has died from hard impact and come back to say hey that wasnt so bad.

 

Fastest = humane, imo. Just cause you don't feel comfortable doing something does NOT mean that it isn't humane. Plus, I doubt that clownfish, or any other fish, don't have temperature-sensing nerves. They know its getting colder and colder. They most likely know that they need to get warmer. All animals have those instincts. If they don't then I might buy the freezer method, but until then, no way. I'd rather be shot in the back of the head than stuffed in a freezer.

 

If you only have a 1% chance of hitting a fish really hard against a table (or a concrete patio) right, then you need to go to the gym. If you slow up and get scared, you might just screw the fish up and not kill it. Don't hold back!

[Tentacles]

Fastest = humane, imo. Just cause you don't feel comfortable doing something does NOT mean that it isn't humane. Plus, I doubt that clownfish, or any other fish, don't have temperature-sensing nerves. They know its getting colder and colder. They most likely know that they need to get warmer. All animals have those instincts. If they don't then I might buy the freezer method, but until then, no way. I'd rather be shot in the back of the head than stuffed in a freezer.

 

If you only have a 1% chance of hitting a fish really hard against a table (or a concrete patio) right, then you need to go to the gym. If you slow up and get scared, you might just screw the fish up and not kill it. Don't hold back!

 

so then the precise hitting of the correct spot with force translates into hitting the thing on a table... I could care less about killing a fish, I was simply trying to answer the question the guy had correctly based on facts.

[er1c_the_reefer]

Fastest = humane, imo. Just cause you don't feel comfortable doing something does NOT mean that it isn't humane. Plus, I doubt that clownfish, or any other fish, don't have temperature-sensing nerves. They know its getting colder and colder. They most likely know that they need to get warmer. All animals have those instincts. If they don't then I might buy the freezer method, but until then, no way. I'd rather be shot in the back of the head than stuffed in a freezer.

 

If you only have a 1% chance of hitting a fish really hard against a table (or a concrete patio) right, then you need to go to the gym. If you slow up and get scared, you might just screw the fish up and not kill it. Don't hold back!

 

if fish don't have temperature-sensitive nerves, then how do they know its getting hotter or colder? o_0a

 

<edit> nvm, the use of double negative confused me.

 

anyways, here you go:

 

So what can you do next time you catch fish? Take some ice and icy water with you, and plunge the freshly-caught fish into the icy water. As the fish cools, its metabolism will slow down, and it will go (painlessly, we think) into hibernation and then anaesthesia. Then place it gently on the ice, but out of the water. It will suffocate to death, but while being anaethetised.

 

So just because fish are cold-blooded animals, doesn't mean that we have to be cold-blooded killers...

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1739175.htm

[Tentacles]

for the record not trying to cause any controversy!!

 

and yea that ice and icy, the freezer method is in essence the same, they slip unconcious and pass that way therefore feeling no pain supposedly, good article eric

[Jordon]

by the time this thread is done the fish will already be dead of natral couses.

[Tentacles]

by the time this thread is done the fish will already be dead of natral couses.

 

hahahahahahahaha

[er1c_the_reefer]

i remember when i was little i had a dying neon tetra; i caught it and put it in a small shot glass and tried to defibrillate it like on TV using a 9v battery and 2 copper wires...

[Six]

when i worked fish retail we used RDT cus it was quick and you could put the fish in a bag and immediately toss the carcass out (yes, thats reality of fish retail).

 

it was very easy to kill the fish. the worst thing to RDT were freshwater dwarf frogs. those things dont die. the most fun was culling golfish with dropsy. kinda like an organic bomb.... KERPLOW!

 

if you cant kill the fish in a single blow, well, maybe an axe?

[lgreen]

You're all going to hell.

 

 

 

 

j/k

 

Unfortunately, working at a fish store I have to deal with this occasionally. My boss usually uses the freezer technique. Personally, I guess the way I deal with it is by not dealing with it. I just let nature take its course. After they pass, I flush them. I just have no interest in being the inducer of death, kind of a moral/ethics thing on my end. I have used the freezer technique myself though on a few rare occasions when things were looking very bad.

 

I don't know that there really is a easy painless method for doing this with out using barbiturates, sedatives, or other anesthetics. The average joe doesn't have access to these drugs though, so I guess the only thing you can do is just use your best judgment.

 

Come to think of it though, if you drink enough alcohol it can have a sedative/anesthetic effect eventually leading to death if intake is continued. Perhaps one could open a beer, pour half for yourself and titrate the other half into a container w/ saltwater and the fish?? j/k

 

I'd probably just go with the freezer method.

[HecticDialectics]

anyways, here you go:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1739175.htm

 

 

That's actually a great article that proves my point. Fish are loaded with pain receptors. Just because they are cold-blooded does NOT mean that they just slip away into sleep when dumped into cold water. The entire article cites four completely different tests that showed fish had pain receptors. The person who wrote that article gave absolutely no evidence for the claim that cold water doesn't trigger pain receptors. In fact, it suggests the opposite - that heat and cold do trigger pain receptors, but goes on to cite this commonly accepted theory that cold water just "puts them to sleep". Instead, the fish is most likely sensing that it is cold, and its body starts to shut down. It instinctively starts trying figure out what is going on and tries to warm up, but it can't because it is slowly getting colder and colder. It's nerves start to fire more and more as it gets too cold for the heart to sufficiently pump its blood through its gills for enough oxygen, so it probably starts to die of asphyxiation long before the cold water kills it.

 

 

So we've seen scientific evidence that fish do, in fact, feel pain. Why on earth are people saying that cold water gently lulls a fish to sleep?

[clifford513]

It instinctively starts trying figure out what is going on and tries to warm up, but it can't because it is slowly getting colder and colder. It's nerves start to fire more and more as it gets too cold for the heart to sufficiently pump its blood through its gills for enough oxygen, so it probably starts to die of asphyxiation long before the cold water kills it.

So it is thinking? You are comparing a cold blooded animal to a warm blooded animal. Totally different mechanisms for survival.

[HecticDialectics]

So it is thinking? You are comparing a cold blooded animal to a warm blooded animal. Totally different mechanisms for survival.

 

I said instinct... I did not say thinking. That's how fish work. They probably don't have a conscience. They act by instinct hardwired in their little brains.

[clifford513]

I said instinct... I did not say thinking. That's how fish work. They probably don't have a conscience. They act by instinct hardwired in their little brains.

You also said its nerves start to fire more and more. I disagree. Fish are cold blooded, not warm blooded.

[HecticDialectics]

You also said its nerves start to fire more and more. I disagree. Fish are cold blooded, not warm blooded.

 

What on earth are you talking about? Nerves fire the same way whether an animal or warm or cold blooded don't they?

[clifford513]

Well, I have a goldfish pond with koi and a comet that have endured many winters. They just slow down when it gets really cold and hardly move at all when ice forms on top of the water. When warm weather returns, they are back to normal. Cold blooded animals don't shiver. They just don't move.

[lgreen]

Heat = increased metabolism, Cold = decreased metabolism

 

decreased metabolism = less ATP production

 

Less ATP = less active transport

 

less active transport = less Na+/K+ pump = less nerve firing.

 

So the fun question is what happens first. Does the fish crystalize = paralysis = death, or freezing = nerve block = death??

[clifford513]

When placed in the freezer in tank temp water, I think the fish would be completely anesthetized before death.

[er1c_the_reefer]

i'd venture to guess what happens first is the slow down of metabolism and nerve firing, which occurs at a higher temperature than being frozen to the point of crystalization.

 

in humans, what happens first, frostbite, or numbness? when you're numb, do you feel the pain from frostbite, or do you notice it hurts after you warm back up enough to feel the limb?

 

oh yea, and the firing of nerve impulses depends on the type of thermoreceptors...

[lgreen]

But, going back to the pond thing, the water in the pond can be less than 32 degrees, but if moving it will not freeze correct? And fish survive this. Makes me wonder if it is the actual crystalization of the fish in water that causes the death.

 

i'd venture to guess what happens first is the slow down of metabolism and nerve firing, which occurs at a higher temperature than being frozen to the point of crystalization.

 

i agree.

 

nerve block ---> crystalization.

 

sounds fairly peaceful to me.

[clifford513]

^ Me too!

[er1c_the_reefer]

if temp is 32 degrees, technically the pond should be ice... if you were frozen in a block of ice, i'd assume you'd be dead...

 

but remember, movement creates heat... thats why you shiver... when you stop shivering, then you're screwed. wilderness first responder class...

[clifford513]

Shivering is something warm blooded animals do.

[HecticDialectics]

touche...