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THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD


ZephNYC

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And what about all those magic additives that make lots of claims for what they do but we don't even know what is in them,

I am not a big additives kind of guy. Ice melter for calcium, baking soda and thats about it.

I don't even know what those other things are for or why you would want to waste your money on them.

I know people got to make a living and they do have beautiful reef pictures on the containers but I feel you don't need them. Seawater has everything in it that fish and corals need and it doesn't get depleted as fast as many people think it does. Many tanks go for years with no water changes, I don't recommend that but if even one tank could do that, it proves that the constituents that make up saltwater don't become exhausted very quickly. Corals need calcium but if your 1" acropora grew 1/4" this month, how much calcium do you think it removed from your water. I don't know either but it certainly didn't use a pound of calcium.

I never used Zeolites and don't even use carbon any longer. I feel it removes too many good things with the bad and I think since I stopped using carbon, my reef never looked so healthy. I use it in my worm tank but I don't care if the worms are that comfortable.

As always, I am not the God of additives or anything else except UG filters. Just a bald electrician. -_-

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I am not a big additives kind of guy. Ice melter for calcium, baking soda and thats about it.

I don't even know what those other things are for or why you would want to waste your money on them.

I know people got to make a living and they do have beautiful reef pictures on the containers but I feel you don't need them. Seawater has everything in it that fish and corals need and it doesn't get depleted as fast as many people think it does. Many tanks go for years with no water changes, I don't recommend that but if even one tank could do that, it proves that the constituents that make up saltwater don't become exhausted very quickly. Corals need calcium but if your 1" acropora grew 1/4" this month, how much calcium do you think it removed from your water. I don't know either but it certainly didn't use a pound of calcium.

I never used Zeolites and don't even use carbon any longer. I feel it removes too many good things with the bad and I think since I stopped using carbon, my reef never looked so healthy. I use it in my worm tank but I don't care if the worms are that comfortable.

As always, I am not the God of additives or anything else except UG filters. Just a bald electrician. -_-

 

In your large system with NSW for the most part, and the mud, and all the natural life you add and the food you feed, things are of course different than in small aquariums that tend to have a higher bio-load per gallon that what your tank has so in those tanks supplementation is often necessary, depending on the kind of corals one maintains and depending on feeding etc ... more water changes are needed as well and more chemical filtration is needed in those too especially if soft corals and Leather corals are placed in them or anything else that gives off toxins.

 

Gee you could probably have a small sea apple die in your system and not much would happen, but in a Nano-Reef that would mean the tank crashes completely.

 

It is difficult to compare a small system, say 10, 15 or 20 gallons with a large systems like yours that is also super aged and stable. _-_

 

It is not really possible to apply all of the methods used on Large systems to Nano-Reefs because of the many differences between them.

 

Albert

Edited by albertthiel
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Hello Albert,

 

I thought you and others would enjoy a little smile from the following movie trailer put together my Kharn over at the Reef Central mantis shrimp forum:

 

Rise of the Planet of the Stomatopods

 

I got a good laugh out of this and thought everyone else might, too.

 

While you're there, check out some of his more serious videos on mantis shrimp feeding. He has some of the best videos, including some awesome slow-mo videos of mantis strikes.

 

Cheers!

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If I had to take a guess (and I know that is dangerous) I would 5 ppm and probably close to zero PO4.

 

OK you shamed me into taking out a test kit. I have a nitrate test kit that someone had given me. I think it is accurate because this past summer I tested NSW from the ocean and the reading was zero.

My tank today reads 40 for nitrate. Algae and all.

I can't test for PO4 and never have so I have no idea about that. I really don't care at this point either because I mentioned my theory about a healthy tank.

40 seems high and for most of the life of this tank it hovered around 5. During huricane Sandy I had to remove my denitrification device I built so that isn't helping.

I will not try to lower the nitrates as they don't seem to be bothering anything with the fish spawning and the corals growing.

I counted the fish, there are 28 of them along with an untold number of crabs and snails. 2 urchins and a 5" clam.

I do feed a lot which is why the fish are spawning but of course I have a Reverse UG filter which in my mind is bulletproof and allows all sorts of things that most reef tanks would croak from. B)

 

Gee you could probably have a small sea apple die in your system and not much would happen

I could probably have New Jersey Goveror Chris Christi die in there and nothing would happen. Years ago a large 12" carpet anemone died and completely fell apart, stunk like hell but nothing happened.

I had 24 local urchins spawn all at the same time, the tank looked like Cool Whip and nothing happened.

There is something to be said about the filtering capacity of a 6' long UG filter.

Edited by Paul.b
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Hello Albert,

I thought you and others would enjoy a little smile from the following movie trailer put together my Kharn over at the Reef Central mantis shrimp forum:

 

Rise of the Planet of the Stomatopods

 

I got a good laugh out of this and thought everyone else might, too.

While you're there, check out some of his more serious videos on mantis shrimp feeding. He has some of the best videos, including some awesome slow-mo videos of mantis strikes.

Cheers!

 

Thanks Islandoftiki, and yes that was neat indeed .. and it must have taken quite some time to make that Video given the special effects in it.

 

Albert

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OK you shamed me into taking out a test kit. I have a nitrate test kit that someone had given me. I think it is accurate because this past summer I tested NSW from the ocean and the reading was zero.

My tank today reads 40 for nitrate. Algae and all.

I can't test for PO4 and never have so I have no idea about that. I really don't care at this point either because I mentioned my theory about a healthy tank.

40 seems high and for most of the life of this tank it hovered around 5. During huricane Sandy I had to remove my denitrification device I built so that isn't helping.

I will not try to lower the nitrates as they don't seem to be bothering anything with the fish spawning and the corals growing.

I counted the fish, there are 28 of them along with an untold number of crabs and snails. 2 urchins and a 5" clam.

I do feed a lot which is why the fish are spawning but of course I have a Reverse UG filter which in my mind is bulletproof and allows all sorts of things that most reef tanks would croak from. B)

 

 

I could probably have New Jersey Goveror Chris Christi die in there and nothing would happen. Years ago a large 12" carpet anemone died and completely fell apart, stunk like hell but nothing happened.

I had 24 local urchins spawn all at the same time, the tank looked like Cool Whip and nothing happened.

There is something to be said about the filtering capacity of a 6' long UG filter.

 

Gee that is a lot higher than I thought it would be but if there is no effect on anything in the tank then I guess there is nothing to "worry" about but then you do not worry anyway.

 

28 fish + those that are in hiding I guess :-) there could be a a lot more and of course there are those 417 Mandarins that are on the way to growing .. well let's make it a few less as the eggs have probably been eaten by now.

 

And on that Governor ... yes that would make quite a bit of pollution indeed or maybe a lot of "good food" for the fish and corals :-0

 

Good to read you feel really comfortable about what the tank can handle ... maybe you ought to try that Clorox trick that one hobbyist suggested that you add directly to the tank .. oh no :-(

 

Albert

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When not running PhosGuard in my tumbler would it be wise to have activated carbon in there or some other media?

Edited by joeyhatch11
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When not running PhosGuard in my tumbler would it be wise to have activated carbon in there or some other media?

You can safely run Phosguard and GAC at the same time, in fact it is a good idea to do so, as is explained in my new book. If you add GAC, buy a high grade one, and rinse it well before adding it to a mesh bag and then place it in an area where the water can flow through it well. Change the GAC based on the recommendations of the manufacturer, or somewhat sooner (as I do).

 

If you have not used it up to now, then start with a smaller quantity than the one recommended, and after you have run that batch increase the next batch a little, and so on till you get to the recommended dose. The reason is that you do not want to cause fast variations in the water chemistry as corals react negatively to doing so.

 

If you wish to see the topics covered in my new book and ordering info at the bottom of the post, go to the following link on this thread: .. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=4091362

 

You may also want to watch for an announcement on a Radio Show Talk I will be giving on Dec 20th at 10:00 EST on the Majestic Aquarium show, an announcement that will be posted on this thread in a few days, so you know how to access it on your Computer or Laptop or Tablet.

 

Albert

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Im currently using Chemi-Pure that is sitting on top of my filter floss. It gets hit first with the water coming down from the DT and it gets a good tossing from that. In my second chamber of the sump I have a Phosguard tumbler. Is ther GFC that's big enough to not have to be put in a bag and that can tumble with the Phosguard?

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Im currently using Chemi-Pure that is sitting on top of my filter floss. It gets hit first with the water coming down from the DT and it gets a good tossing from that. In my second chamber of the sump I have a Phosguard tumbler. Is ther GFC that's big enough to not have to be put in a bag and that can tumble with the Phosguard?

Good of you to use Chemi-Pure or the Elite form of it. What you should do however is reverse how it is placed. Let the water hit the filter floss first and then when it goes through that flow through the Chemi-Pure.

 

I would not put GAC in a tumbler as the friction of the pellets or granular form will loosen carbon particles which will end up in the tank or sump which is not what should happen.

 

I would also not mix the two compounds. Use either one or the other in the reactor, or use a dual reactor where the two can be kept separated. There are several such reactors on the market. BRS and Kent I believe make them.

 

When carbon is used in a reactor it should not be tumbled but packed so that water flows through it without the carbon being sloshed around and creating fine particles of carbon black as they rub against each other.

 

Hope this helps you along

 

Albert

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I have a few questions about my nano reef:

 

I am looking to add a final fish to my tank and really wanting to add a diamond watchman sleeper goby. I am confused as some say 30 gal tank minimum while others say 50 gal minimum tank size? I like the look of the diamond goby as well as its sand sifting. Would the sand sifting be beneficial to my tank? Would a diamond goby be a good addition to my tank? My main concern is it crashing the tank when it first starts going through the sand. Anything I could do to prevent this (gradually stirring the sand on my own before I get the goby)?

 

Are there any other corals you would recommend for my tank as I am just using the stock lighting? The corals I have in my tank are doing great but would like to add some more hardy low light corals.

 

How much flow is too much? I am running the stock pump (243 gph) with 2 maxijets (160 gph each) connected to a wavemaster pro. Would adding a maxi jet 900 (230 gph) be too much flow or should I keep with what I have as most of my corals like low to moderate flow?

 

For feeding my tank, I mainly use frozen hikari brine shrimp. Do you recommend feeding the tank anything else?

 

Thanks

 

Tank:

-Oceanic Biocube 29 (running for 6 years)

-25lbs live rock

-sand bed is about 2 inches

-stock lighting

-stock pump

-2 maxi jet 600 attached to red sea wavemaster pro

 

Livestock:

-2 black/white clowns

-blue/green chromis

-blood shrimp

-sand conch

-hermit crabs

-trochus snails

-purple mushrooms

-kenya tree

-finger leather

-huge frogspawn

-torch coral (recently added)

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I have a few questions about my nano reef:

 

I am looking to add a final fish to my tank and really wanting to add a diamond watchman sleeper goby. I am confused as some say 30 gal tank minimum while others say 50 gal minimum tank size? I like the look of the diamond goby as well as its sand sifting. Would the sand sifting be beneficial to my tank? Would a diamond goby be a good addition to my tank? My main concern is it crashing the tank when it first starts going through the sand. Anything I could do to prevent this (gradually stirring the sand on my own before I get the goby)?

 

Are there any other corals you would recommend for my tank as I am just using the stock lighting? The corals I have in my tank are doing great but would like to add some more hardy low light corals.

 

How much flow is too much? I am running the stock pump (243 gph) with 2 maxijets (160 gph each) connected to a wavemaster pro. Would adding a maxi jet 900 (230 gph) be too much flow or should I keep with what I have as most of my corals like low to moderate flow?

 

For feeding my tank, I mainly use frozen hikari brine shrimp. Do you recommend feeding the tank anything else?

 

Thanks

 

Tank:

-Oceanic Biocube 29 (running for 6 years)

-25lbs live rock

-sand bed is about 2 inches

-stock lighting

-stock pump

-2 maxi jet 600 attached to red sea wavemaster pro

 

Livestock:

-2 black/white clowns

-blue/green chromis

-blood shrimp

-sand conch

-hermit crabs

-trochus snails

-purple mushrooms

-kenya tree

-finger leather

-huge frogspawn

-torch coral (recently added)

 

I don't see why you could not add that Diamond Watchman Goby, especially since you have few fish in the tank and also because if that tank has been running for 6 years it is a well aged tank that has a pretty well established biological filter that should be able to cope with one more fish. What I would recommend however is that you get a small one or a medium one and not a large one (the fish can grow to around 6" which is pretty large for a 29 that does not really hold 29 gals due to the displacement of water by rocks and sand. Let the fish grow in the tank and since it is not a real large one IME the fish will not grow to its maximum size.

 

On the flow. I would keep the flow as it is, since as you say yourself you have corals and life forms that prefer a moderate type of flow and not a forceful one.

 

My only concern is that you have two Clowns in that tank and because they tend to be territorial they may not take well to a new fish being introduced, and if the Goby gets chased it will go into hiding and you may not see it too often. Now it is a bottom dweller so the Clowns may leave it alone but a good way IMO to introduce the fish would be to move a few rocks around and break up the existing clown territory and in addition add the fish when all the lights are out and after it has been acclimated and dipped to make sure it is not carrying any parasites.

 

Because of breaking up the territories the clowns will not be so territorial because basically they have to find a new one since you moved some rocks. and when you introduce the fish when it is all dark in and around the tank any aggression on the part of the clowns will be diminished even more and the Goby will have a chance to find a spot where to create a burrow and then have the whole night in the dark without being bothered by the other fish (as the Chromis can be aggressive too.

 

Not sure how much space you have to add another coral but a good choice would be a Duncan, or a small Pavona Cactus coral, both of which fall in the same water flow category.

 

You have two corals in the tank that can release toxins if you add a coral too close to them and that is the finger coral (Devil's Hand I suppose), and the Kenya Tree.

 

Keep whatever you add well away from those two and I think you will be ok. Some may say that you can add a Candy Cane but I am not sure how much light you have and whether it is enough for that coral.

 

And on feeding: I would feed more than just brine shrimp ... you can try Mysis, thawed Cyclop-eeze, and some other meaty foods that are intended for Corals but that the fish will eat as well when it is introduced.

 

The Duncan will benefit from additional feeding and the Cactus will benefit from some of the Cyclop-eeze small particles that will float around and that its short tentacles can grab. It gets most of its nutrition from the lighting but does do better with a little extra food.

 

Hopefully his answers your questions but if you have more feel free to post them and I will see them in the morning as I am signing off for the evening.

 

Albert

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That is true and I would like to add lazziness. Many people if they are at something long enough they lost interest. For some reason that has not happened to me and if anything I am more attentive to the tank, but not really maintenance.

 

After nearly 30 years of reef tanks (many more of FW tropicals/breeding and SW fish only tanks) I still enjoy the hobby. But I realize that not everyone is interested in maintaining a tank long term and are more stimulated by creating a new setup every couple years as an outlet for their creativity. I have tended to keep my tanks running for 10-15 years, which is fairly long, but you are the 'marathon man' of long running tanks :)

 

I think that after so many years you can just feel that all is well. I can look at my tank for 5 seconds and notice if something is wrong. That very rarely happens and I don't test anything but in the morning when I go by the tank I put my hand on the glass. From that I can tell the temperature.

After the lights come on I look closely at the base of the corals and can tell if they are growing on the rock or whatever they are attached to. The tips are hard to tell but you can see the thing creeping onto the rock. If I see that, I know all is well. And it usualy is

 

I used to run a 50g reef and I pretty much did what you describe. I'd whip out a test kit once a year, just for kicks and maybe change 5% of the water if I was feeling ambitious. The thing ran for nearly 10 years with nothing but a pump, a heater and pure Kalkwasser for top-off. Montis, Rics, Discosoma Mushrooms, LPS, Softies, etc. all grew really well.

 

But with the Nano I have found that I have to be more attentive. As Albert mentioned, there is a lot that can happen quickly in such small volumes of water. I have gotten used to testing parameters more regularly and I find that I actually look forward to obtaining the results. My WC methods and ATO delivery is designed to keep parameters as stable as possible. To me it's worth the effort since Pico/Nano tanks provide the most detailed, intimate look at how organisms exist and interact in an aquatic environment.

Edited by Nano sapiens
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Thanks Albert,

 

I had to trade in my first clownfish in as it was very territorial and would not allow any tankmates in the tank. The clownfish pair I have now are very small and a have only been in the tank for a year and so far are much less aggressive than my first one was.

 

What is the procedure for dipping the new fish? This is something I have never done before. I am assuming it would be dipped into fresh water?

 

What do you think about starfish in a nano reef? I had a chocolate starfish (not sure of its actual name but was sold as that. It was not the chocolate chip starfish) and it only lived 8 months. Its legs shrunk up and it eventually died so I am assuming it ran out of food. Are there any nano reef safe starfish you know of that could do well in my tank long term?

 

Finally, how many hours a day do you recommend having the lights on? I was only running them for 7 hrs but just switched to 9 hrs to see if it makes any difference.

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After nearly 30 years of reef tanks (many more of FW tropicals/breeding and SW fish only tanks) I still enjoy the hobby. But I realize that not everyone is interested in maintaining a tank long term and are more stimulated by creating a new setup every couple years as an outlet for their creativity. I have tended to keep my tanks running for 10-15 years, which is fairly long, but you are the 'marathon man' of long running tanks :)

 

I used to run a 50g reef and I pretty much did what you describe. I'd whip out a test kit once a year, just for kicks and maybe change 5% of the water if I was feeling ambitious. The thing ran for nearly 10 years with nothing but a pump, a heater and pure Kalkwasser for top-off. Montis, Rics, Discosoma Mushrooms, LPS, Softies, etc. all grew really well.

 

But with the Nano I have found that I have to be more attentive. As Albert mentioned, there is a lot that can happen quickly in such small volumes of water. I have gotten used to testing parameters more regularly and I find that I actually look forward to obtaining the results. My WC methods and ATO delivery is designed to keep parameters as stable as possible. To me it's worth the effort since Pico/Nano tanks provide the most detailed, intimate look at how organisms exist and interact in an aquatic environment.

Great expression indeed. "The Marathon Man of Reef Keeping" Love it, and indeed he is ! 42+ years should get Paul in the Guinness Book of Records.

 

And Nano Sapiens, I was not aware that you too are part of the "Old Timers Group" on here, but am glad to read it.

 

So in your opinion, having been around for that long, what would you say is the biggest change or changes that have happen in the hobby in the last 10 to 15 years or so? Just curious.

--- .... ---

And yes, in Nano-Reefs so much can go wrong so quickly that far more attention needs to be paid IMO to keeping the water quality up to par, and not making any sudden changes to it, as although fish may not react negatively that much, a lot of coral will IME.

 

The smaller the tank, the more attention it is going to require, and the more important keeping a close eye on all life forms becomes IME to ascertain that they look as they should.

 

I usually recommend using a sensitive coral as "the control one", and looking at that one every day, e.g. first thing in the morning, or every day at the same time, to make sure that it is doing well and as it should. If it does not look as it should one knows it is time to find out why and fix whatever the issue may be, which could be as simple as changing a chemical compound to more complicated ones such as fixing the alkalinity, pH and other parameters.

 

I take a picture of it every day so I have a historical log of what it looks like, and can go back say a week, or more or less, depending on how I want t make the comparison, and determine any changes. I find that doing so tells me a lot about tank conditions, even without testing.

 

And of course with small tanks, and most Nano Reefs are small, keeping up with a regular maintenance regimen up is IMO what helps us to maintain water conditions (all of them) where they should be and keep them as stable as possible. That is IME even more important if one keeps SPS corals as they seem to be affected by even small water quality changes more so than LPS corals.

 

Mind you IME some SPS ones are a lot hardier than we sometimes think, the one to be more concerned about are Acropora's and the like.

 

I am personally in favor of "small and frequent water changes", rather than "large infrequent ones", but that is for Nanos, for large tanks that are not overloaded, and they should never be, one can go without them for far far longer as the system itself keeps itself in balance, but only if it is not overloaded (unfortunately ,any are as Hobbyists often keep adding more fish and more corals but never adjust their filtration to cope with those higher bioloads. The system in most cases remains as it as originally set up, even though fish and corals have been added, additions that will eventually push the existing filtration passed its handling capacity.

 

But enough rambling on ...

 

Albert

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Thanks Albert,

 

I had to trade in my first clownfish in as it was very territorial and would not allow any tankmates in the tank. The clownfish pair I have now are very small and a have only been in the tank for a year and so far are much less aggressive than my first one was.

 

What is the procedure for dipping the new fish? This is something I have never done before. I am assuming it would be dipped into fresh water?

 

What do you think about starfish in a nano reef? I had a chocolate starfish (not sure of its actual name but was sold as that. It was not the chocolate chip starfish) and it only lived 8 months. Its legs shrunk up and it eventually died so I am assuming it ran out of food. Are there any nano reef safe starfish you know of that could do well in my tank long term?

 

Finally, how many hours a day do you recommend having the lights on? I was only running them for 7 hrs but just switched to 9 hrs to see if it makes any difference.

Well if your current Clowns are small that will make adding that Goby simpler, but I would still do it at night, less stress and less risk for it being cased around.

 

You can do a FW dip after adjusting the pH and temp of the water and leaving the fish in for 2 minutes or so, but better IMO is to drip acclimate for about an hour and keeping the temp up, as it easily cools down in the container used to acclimate. Add Lugol's to that water but not until the last 10 min of the process. Follow the recommended dose on the label of the brand you buy as there are several. Then net the fish out and add it to the tank. Ideally you would have a QT where you can keep the fish for a few weeks but you may not have one.

 

Starfish are typically carnivores and eat worms and small crustaceans, so not safe IMO plus when they run out of smaller foods they may feed on larger ones or slowly starve to death. Some like the white "Astropecten" sand sifter will do that but is also an omnivore that eats small crustaceans and snails etc ,... so I would not add a Starfish, they eat what you don't want them to eat and have no long term survival history record.

 

Here is a link to many of them http://www.aquacon.com/starfish.html and as you read the descriptions you will find references to what I wrote above.

 

Yes leaving lights on 8-9 fours should be fine, I leave mine on 8 hours,

 

Albert

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Bumble Bee Shrimp (Gnathophyllum americanum)

 

© liveaquaria

 

 

An interesting shrimp but add with care. Feed well and it should be reef safe. Underfeed and it may cause problems and consume parts of echinoderms.

 

Link : http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_di...amp;pcatid=1969

 

But if you do a search you will find many more links (makes sure you search includes the word marine as there are FW Bumble Bee shrimp as well

 

Albert

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Well if your current Clowns are small that will make adding that Goby simpler, but I would still do it at night, less stress and less risk for it being cased around.

 

You can do a FW dip after adjusting the pH and temp of the water and leaving the fish in for 2 minutes or so, but better IMO is to drip acclimate for about an hour and keeping the temp up, as it easily cools down in the container used to acclimate. Add Lugol's to that water but not until the last 10 min of the process. Follow the recommended dose on the label of the brand you buy as there are several. Then net the fish out and add it to the tank. Ideally you would have a QT where you can keep the fish for a few weeks but you may not have one.

 

Starfish are typically carnivores and eat worms and small crustaceans, so not safe IMO plus when they run out of smaller foods they may feed on larger ones or slowly starve to death. Some like the white "Astropecten" sand sifter will do that but is also an omnivore that eats small crustaceans and snails etc ,... so I would not add a Starfish, they eat what you don't want them to eat and have no long term survival history record.

 

Here is a link to many of them http://www.aquacon.com/starfish.html and as you read the descriptions you will find references to what I wrote above.

 

Yes leaving lights on 8-9 fours should be fine, I leave mine on 8 hours,

 

Albert

 

Thanks so much Albert for answering all of my questions. I will be taking your advice.

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