Neutral White Luxeon Rebel ES

[jedimasterben]

FYI - There is only ES in white and royal blue.

Whoops, slip of the fingers.

[DaveFason]

It is odd that he has them as ES. Unless he is in the know about them I dont see them as all on the datasheets. It even states that the RB is the only ES color.

 

-D

[jedimasterben]

It is odd that he has them as ES. Unless he is in the know about them I dont see them as all on the datasheets. It even states that the RB is the only ES color.

 

-D

Now that I think about it, he mentioned in my emails that they are all Rebel ES. May have just been a typo there, too.

[McJosh13]

That is a good idea for a three-up Rebel board, especially since they can take a LOT more heat than the BL/Semi LEDs can, so they can be ran at their full strength. The only problem with that is the red LED has a max amperage of 700ma, vs 1A for the cyan and cool blue.

 

You would get more than enough light out of them at 700ma and it would be well worth the improved color mixing

[jedimasterben]

You would get more than enough light out of them at 700ma and it would be well worth the improved color mixing

Very good point.

 

Steve mentioned he has a few of the 3up star blanks at the moment (he can get more, doesn't add much to cost), so as soon as he gets the cool blues in, I will have him make me a star to have all of these on it and see how it performs. If it does well, he should start stocking them.

[syncro]

Where did the 324 lumens come from? I found a datasheet for this Rebel ES 5000K (part LXW8-PW50) and it says Typical Luminous Flux (lm) @ 1000ma is 272. Wrong datasheet? Maybe I don't understand lumens?

 

http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/lu...eon-rebel-white

[jedimasterben]

Where did the 324 lumens come from? I found a datasheet for this Rebel ES 5000K (part LXW8-PW50) and it says Typical Luminous Flux (lm) @ 1000ma is 272. Wrong datasheet? Maybe I don't understand lumens?

 

<a href="http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon-rebel/luxeon-rebel-white" target="_blank">http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/lu...eon-rebel-white

</a>

Philips doesn't include different binning in their datasheets, nor am I aware that they are publicly available. The bin that Steve got is quite a bit better than the datasheet lists.

[jm82792]

Would I be shooting for more of a 1:1 ratio for neutral white to royal blue? How many should I use for a 29? I know that's an elementary question but I'm thinking I'll do my baseline then add exotics to taste.

[jedimasterben]

Would I be shooting for more of a 1:1 ratio for neutral white to royal blue? How many should I use for a 29? I know that's an elementary question but I'm thinking I'll do my baseline then add exotics to taste.

No, you want a 2:3 ratio of white to royal blue, that would net you a 12-14k look without any dimming.

 

For a standard 29g with a 30"x 12" profile, I would do 3x clusters of two NW and 3 RB.

[jm82792]

That seems incredibly simple and more affordable then what I was considering. That's comparable to a 150 de MH I'm assuming? How high should I put the light? Could I add 60* optics and raise the light up to a couple feet? (just for looks and to keep any salt off the light) Man when I get the light done then I can contemplate what exotics to add.

 

I'm almost about to order, finally years after that GB from Davefason for Crees I'll have a light Heck I could mix in some RBs and some cool whites to get rid of them since they've been sitting around for a long time.

[jedimasterben]

That seems incredibly simple and more affordable then what I was considering. That's comparable to a 150 de MH I'm assuming? How high should I put the light? Could I add 60* optics and raise the light up to a couple feet? (just for looks and to keep any salt off the light) Man when I get the light done then I can contemplate what exotics to add.

 

I'm almost about to order, finally years after that GB from Davefason for Crees I'll have a light Heck I could mix in some RBs and some cool whites to get rid of them since they've been sitting around for a long time.

If you're raising it more than a foot, I would do 40 degree optics, and then adjust the height to where there isn't much light spill over the sides of the tank.

[jm82792]

Thanks for the help, I usually over-think things and in the end smack myself a few times realizing how simplistic the problem was

I ordered the Meanwells(ordered a third one for under cabinet lighting), I'm going to get the 18" Maker's Heatsink for the array because I'm assuming the 12" is too small(with optics and high up?) correct? Anyways I'll be ordering the Rebel ES LEDs shortly then the heatsink

 

I can't wait to have a working light!

[syncro]

Philips doesn't include different binning in their datasheets, nor am I aware that they are publicly available. The bin that Steve got is quite a bit better than the datasheet lists.

 

 

Has anyone seen or used these LEDs? They look good on paper.

[DaveFason]

I've been using them for two years.

 

-Dave

[Tuduku]

Thanks for the help, I usually over-think things and in the end smack myself a few times realizing how simplistic the problem was

...

I can't wait to have a working light!

 

I've been in the same boat with DIY Leds a few months now. I was about to throw myself at the wall looking at some seriously complex/expensive setups people have done here and on RC. But having read this thread and a few others this afternoon leads me back to where I started months ago. Simple might just be best after all heh. So thank you Jedimasterben + Dave + McJosh for your posts, they have been majorly helpful.

 

And if you don't mind me asking here. I have a 30g (36"x12"x17") with no sps. I wanted to know your thoughts on 2 clusters of: 6 rb, 4nw, 1cw, 3uv. Should they be split into 4 smaller clusters? Would 90* optics work at 4-6inches off the surface.

 

Everything from steve's led, except uv from LEDgroupbuy.

[jm82792]

Yeah it was first a microcontroller that dims leds.

Then one that keeps time, then one that calculates the current lunar phase, features an LCD scree and has a nice UI.

Also with a temperature sensor for the tank, along with fans to passively cool the tank. Then I had to do custom this, that and the other.

I have a ton of parts from getting too complex and not making something simple then expanding it.

I'll still do a controller but simple will be key

 

So just to ask to drive you guys insane(not really)...

A 18" heatsink and not a 12" right?

[jedimasterben]

I've been in the same boat with DIY Leds a few months now. I was about to throw myself at the wall looking at some seriously complex/expensive setups people have done here and on RC. But having read this thread and a few others this afternoon leads me back to where I started months ago. Simple might just be best after all heh. So thank you Jedimasterben + Dave + McJosh for your posts, they have been majorly helpful.

 

And if you don't mind me asking here. I have a 30g (36"x12"x17") with no sps. I wanted to know your thoughts on 2 clusters of: 6 rb, 4nw, 1cw, 3uv. Should they be split into 4 smaller clusters? Would 90* optics work at 4-6inches off the surface.

 

Everything from steve's led, except uv from LEDgroupbuy.

I would ditch the cool white, and I would instead do 3x or 4x clusters of 3x RB, 2x NW, 1x violet. If you want full spectrum, add a single deep red, cyan, and cool blue to each cluster. (cool blues from LEDgroupbuy, the cyan and red from Steve's)

 

90 degree optics would be good, I think. No light spill off the sides of the tank, though the top corners of the tank may be kinda dark.

 

A 18" heatsink and not a 12" right?

I would do the 18".

 

 

 

 

 

In other news, I got my lights (sorta) together today. My new tank is ordered and will be available on Tuesday, but I am picking it up on Friday, and will get back to my house late Saturday, so I don't think I'll get it set up til next weekend, then I'll start moving all my stuff over to it and get some good pics.

 

 

Teasers:

My final cluster design:

---RB-CB-RB---

--V-NW-NW-V--

----C-RB-DR---

 

My violets look like garbage after being removed from heatsinks twice now and having the thermal adhesive Dremel'd off of them, but damn do they still work great.

 

Drivers: Double, Single, Triple

 

Cyan

 

Deep red

 

Royal blue

 

Tried to catch some of the hint of purple that these things throw out, but my phone just won't. I don't think that the purple is overbearing or even bad - I love it, personally.

[jm82792]

Thanks man for the information

Ordering Steves LEDs now some for the tank and some for under the cabinet(hopefully it looks good for the kitchen), I'd do his drivers but CAT4101's(they have to be it) and their voltage sensitivity has jaded me a bit. If I want more LEDs I'll toss in some of my old XPE RBs and CW XPGs as a temporary fix.

 

Items

Qty Description Price Each Total

5 Heatshrink Tubing 3/32" Diameter

$0.46 $2.30

15 Optics Beam Angle:30° Beam Angle

$0.45 $6.75

9 Philips Luxeon ES ROYAL BLUE 3 Watt LEDs

$3.19 $28.71

15 Philips Luxeon ES Neutral WHITE 3 Watt LEDs

$3.19 $47.85

Subtotal: $85.61

Tax : $0.00

Shipping (Standard): $8.00

Total: $93.61

Balance Due: $0.00

[jedimasterben]

Thanks man for the information

Ordering Steves LEDs now some for the tank and some for under the cabinet(hopefully it looks good for the kitchen), I'd do his drivers but CAT4101's(they have to be it) and their voltage sensitivity has jaded me a bit. If I want more LEDs I'll toss in some of my old XPE RBs and CW XPGs as a temporary fix.

 

Items

Qty Description Price Each Total

5 Heatshrink Tubing 3/32" Diameter

$0.46 $2.30

15 Optics Beam Angle:30° Beam Angle

$0.45 $6.75

9 Philips Luxeon ES ROYAL BLUE 3 Watt LEDs

$3.19 $28.71

15 Philips Luxeon ES Neutral WHITE 3 Watt LEDs

$3.19 $47.85

Subtotal: $85.61

Tax : $0.00

Shipping (Standard): $8.00

Total: $93.61

Balance Due: $0.00

I was gonna say damn dude, that's a lot of white! But some aren't for the tank

[McJosh13]

And if you don't mind me asking here. I have a 30g (36"x12"x17") with no sps. I wanted to know your thoughts on 2 clusters of: 6 rb, 4nw, 1cw, 3uv. Should they be split into 4 smaller clusters? Would 90* optics work at 4-6inches off the surface.

 

Everything from steve's led, except uv from LEDgroupbuy.

 

 

I like the ratio as you have it above. I personally like having some cool white in the mix as it reduces the total amount of red/orange in the tank. I started off with 16nw : 20rb (+ 3 cyan, 3 deep red) and ordered some extra cw and cb to have on the side. Then I started swapping in cw for nw to adjust for my own personal tastes. I ended up with 12nw and 4cw and I really like this ratio. Then I started swapping in some cool blue for royal blue to my preference and ended up with 14 royal blue and 6 cool blue. The additional colors besides neutral white and royal blue are not absolutely necessarily if it makes the build to complicated for you but they do definitely further improve the color of the tank (esp the cool blue) IMO.

 

Now for my optic rant. I think optics are an excellent idea for any tank (even one with the lights close to the water as yours are). You want to keep all of the light in the tank and not spilling out the sides into your eyes while your sitting on the couch and wasting energy. The thing is that the "90 degree" optics you are probably looking at are really no where near 90 degrees they are probably more like 40-60 degrees. See the graph from a "high quality" Ledlink 80 degree optic below:

 

Ledlink LL01CR-DF80L 80 degree optic

Do you consider this a 80 degree optic because I sure don't. They consider it 80 degrees because almost all of the light distribution is inside of 80 degrees, but really most of the light is inside of 40 degrees or less! The problem is that almost all optics are rated this way and unless they are providing a datasheet which shows otherwise I wouls assume this type of distribution.

 

I have been looking for optics that are wide angle (80-90 degree) and evenly distributed and think I may have just found some. Ledil has a couple of products that meet this criteria with the Tina3 series being the most interesting, see graph below:

 

LEDiL TINA3 "79 degree" optics FA11826_TINA3-WWW

You can see that the distribution of light is very wide and relativity evenly distributed within an angle of 80-90 degrees. These should keep the light evenly distributed within the tank and not spilling out the gap between your light and the water into your girlfriends eyes while she's trying to watch tv (which is my problem, lol). Also this will keep the photons where you want them (i.e in the water) and will save energy. These optics are meant to be used on rebel es, cree xp-e, and cree xp-g leds.They have these at futureelectronics for $1.35 ea, I'm trying to get them to break up the 144pcs minimum so that I can buy singles (they have done this for me before)

 

Sorry if this was too far off topic

 

BTW, I should mention that Steve's Royal Blue Rebel ES are 440nm (not 450-455nm like the well respected XT-E) and how they perform aesthetically is really yet to be determined. A few ppl (i think Blaster and Evil in the past) said that it set their tanks too much to the purple side.

[Veng]

So when do we see a picture of this over a tank?

[jedimasterben]

So when do we see a picture of this over a tank?

I will have mine hopefully starting next week - I have no way of hanging it over my current 55g, at all. I would have to make a custom mounting system for it, and then I'd have to turn around and make yet another one for its final place over my 80g, so I'm skipping that and just going to put it on the 80g, which I will have on Saturday and begin moving things over then.

[blasterman]

The 80 degree optics sold by RapidLED are in no way '80 degrees' either.

[Tuduku]

Good to know about the optics, would a simple solution be to use a wider optic like 120degrees so that most of it will be centered in the first 70 or so. Or no optics and use skirt reflectors on the sides of my heatsink for the overcast?

[McJosh13]

Good to know about the optics, would a simple solution be to use a wider optic like 120degrees so that most of it will be centered in the first 70 or so. Or no optics and use skirt reflectors on the sides of my heatsink for the overcast?

 

The best solution is to use an optic with a data sheet showing a proper distribution pattern, see my above post.. the LEDiL TINA3 "79 degree" optics look ideal. I have spoken with a representative from future electronics who is willing to break up the 144pcs minimum to smaller sizes. PM me if your interested and I'll give you the details so as to not further hijack jedimasterben's thread