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Alto's Bangaii Cardinal Breeding thread


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#1
altolamprologus

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Here's my pair. They are captive bred from Inland Aquatics and I acquired them November 2, 2011 at approximately 6 months old.
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Female on top, male on bottom


Last night I noticed them courting (vid below) and today I came home from work to a great surprise: the male has a big mouthful of eggs :)

Courting:
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^ click for vid

Male holding eggs:
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The fish are still in quarantine as their breeding tank hasn't been set up yet (but I don't think they mind :lol:)
This is my first try at raising saltwater fish, but I have successfully spawned mandarins as well. I have decapped brine shrimp eggs and live copepods ready for the babies. Can't wait fingerscrossed


edit: the vid turned out darker than I thought. You can see them best at the 50 second mark. Oh, and yes, I was watching family guy at the time

Broodstock age and size: Approximately 1 year old. Female is 2.5 inches TL and male is 2.25 inches TL

Dates of previous spawns:
12/2/11 swallowed day 3
12/25/11 swallowed day 2
01/30/12 started eating day 6, most likely swallowed on days 1 and 2
03/29/12 swallowed day 2
04/19/12 spit day 1, tumbled but declared dead next day. Most likely unfertilized.
05/09/12 swallowed day 2
06/10/12 swallowed day 3
07/10/12 swallowed day 2
08/04/12

Broodstock diet: 3-5 feedings a day of one or more of the following: PE mysis, frozen enriched brine, live enriched brine (both adult and newly hatched), nutrimar ova, live copepods, live cleaner shrimp zoea, live baby guppies

Broodstock tank: 20 gallon high with 15 pounds live rock and macro algae (chaeto, red titan and Caulerpa prolifera)

Tankmates: Longspine urchin

Edited by altolamprologus, 04 August 2012 - 07:54 PM.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#2
Euphyllia

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Dibs on fry.

:P

#3
ericm1205

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very cool. i been trying for a ling time to find an adult pair to try and breed these. you should go on mufib and buy a egg tumbler incase the male spits them out.

are you gonna try to let the male raise them to hatch, or try to pull the male so he can spit them out?
if you let the male carry them to term, then feed him like crazy so he dont starve in between batches, sometimes having the male drop the eggs is good, but then he might stop carrying them all together.



i also call dibs on like6 of them!!

good luck and keep this thread going so we can watch. between all of us clown breeders, its nice to see something else being bred. hehe

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#4
Kazooie

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I want all the others! :P

Good luck! :)

If you were into the puberty phase, you'd be a ####ing neckbeard. Get out of here you ####ing tween #### ##### ass mother####er stupid ##### bastard ####er chicken leg pride rally supporter. Get out of here with your poverty opinions you ####ing ice cream sandwich stupid #### ##### alter ego reported for harassing me and I messaged the FBI and I left Obama a voicemail and wrote a postcard to your parents.
Enjoy not posting you giant neckbeard looooser.

Do you even logic?

 

thanks jen. i have him on ignore so i don't get sick whenever he's craving attention. kazooie, to be honest the world would be better off without you and your parents will actually be happy when they discover you lifeless in the bathtub with slit wrists. HTH

 


#5
RayWhisperer

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So, what did Peter end up doing?

Leaving now. See you #####es on the flip side.


#6
FishEyeAquaculture

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Super cool!!!! Good luck!!!
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#7
yoshii

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Alto, you're just so awesome your fish are already breeding in quarantine. :)

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I swear yoshii you turn every thread into a chat box lol!!!

Lack of research is the biggest down fall of people in this hobby.

 


#8
syngnathus

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jealous man, i got a juvenile pair from them Nov. 9th. However, i am not convinced they like each other anymore. The one that's just a bit larger is somewhat aggressive with the other. They still stay close to one another (maybe 3 inches max) but the bigger one has an attitude.
"My biggest worry is that my wife (when I'm dead) will sell my aquaria for what I said I paid for it."
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#9
altolamprologus

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very cool. i been trying for a ling time to find an adult pair to try and breed these. you should go on mufib and buy a egg tumbler incase the male spits them out.

are you gonna try to let the male raise them to hatch, or try to pull the male so he can spit them out?
if you let the male carry them to term, then feed him like crazy so he dont starve in between batches, sometimes having the male drop the eggs is good, but then he might stop carrying them all together.



i also call dibs on like6 of them!!

good luck and keep this thread going so we can watch. between all of us clown breeders, its nice to see something else being bred. hehe

He swallowed them already (empty mouth and fat stomach :angry: ) but I do intend to let him carry them almost to full term. If he carries the next batch I will net him on day 21-22 and make him spit. I'm also going to buy a tank divider to separate him from the female for a couple weeks between spawns to fatten him and reduce the chance of aborting. I think he aborted this time simply from being so young. I have read virtually every thread on MOFIB and MBI, most more than once :D

If (when) I get a batch to sellable size I will make you (and all other would called dibs) get first pick :)

I want all the others! :P

Good luck! :)

If the price is right :P

So, what did Peter end up doing?

Lol I can't remember I was too busy watching the cardinals have sex.

Super cool!!!! Good luck!!!

Thanks :)

Alto, you're just so awesome your fish are already breeding in quarantine. :)

I know :) But feel free to continue saying that

jealous man, i got a juvenile pair from them Nov. 9th. However, i am not convinced they like each other anymore. The one that's just a bit larger is somewhat aggressive with the other. They still stay close to one another (maybe 3 inches max) but the bigger one has an attitude.

Just give it time. Mine looked like they hated each other up until the day before spawning.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#10
Pickle010

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Very cool thread - I hope you stay with it and keep this thread documented with as much info as you can.

Best of luck!

#11
altolamprologus

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Very cool thread - I hope you stay with it and keep this thread documented with as much info as you can.

Best of luck!

Thanks. I'll do my best to keep the thread active, but I don't think I'll have updates very often with only one pair. I guess my only option is to get more pairs :D

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#12
ajmckay

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Nice progress! I eventually would like to try my hand at breeding. Partially for $$, but also to encourage the sustainable growth of the hobby. I've been over to the breeding sites a few times, but I have yet to really dive into them.

Honestly though I should (frequent the breeder sites)... Not to put this site down too much (because it's great), but it seems like the same questions are asked all the time.... Really the only thing keeping me here are the member threads. It's getting really old responding to the exact same noob questions...

Do you have a good source of information in helping you acquire a compatible pair?

#13
altolamprologus

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Nice progress! I eventually would like to try my hand at breeding. Partially for $$, but also to encourage the sustainable growth of the hobby. I've been over to the breeding sites a few times, but I have yet to really dive into them.

Honestly though I should (frequent the breeder sites)... Not to put this site down too much (because it's great), but it seems like the same questions are asked all the time.... Really the only thing keeping me here are the member threads. It's getting really old responding to the exact same noob questions...

Do you have a good source of information in helping you acquire a compatible pair?

You should definitely try breeding. I haven't even had a batch of babies yet but it's still very rewarding to see them spawn.

I know what you mean about the same questions being asked over and over. I respond to some of them just so people don't go do stupid things, but it does get annoying. The breeding sites have much more experienced people so the questions are actually legitimate ones.

I bought my cardinals as a confirmed pair, so I didn't have to actually try to pair them. However, I do know how to sex them if you want me to post that here.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#14
Euphyllia

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Alto

#15
altolamprologus

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Alto

Yes?

I really want to try to keep this thread spam free so if it's not related, please pm me.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#16
syngnathus

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Alto, how are you setting up their breeding tank and how many gallons is it? just curious.
"My biggest worry is that my wife (when I'm dead) will sell my aquaria for what I said I paid for it."
- Koos Brandt (modified)

#17
altolamprologus

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Alto, how are you setting up their breeding tank and how many gallons is it? just curious.

The breeding tank is a 20 gallon standard. It will have removable dividers to separate the babies from parents and to separate the male from female after each clutch to let him gain back some weight. For filtration, I'm getting a skimmer rated for 30 gallons (not sure what brand, it's at a friends house right now) and I will have chaeto and possibly a couple other fast growing macros. The tank will be bare bottom except for some live rock.

If all goes as planned the tank will be set up by next week and I can get the cardinals out of that ghetto quarantine tank they're currently in.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#18
Euphyllia

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Can't wait to see the tank up and running! I've seen pictures of cardinal rearing tanks before. The fry are so cute!!!

How is the male doing? Did you get him to spit out the eggs or what? Update!! :)

#19
sweet<3

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How exciting! I have been wanting to start breeding these guys. I will be following :D

#20
tinctorus

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Maybe I missed it but I am wanting to try my hand at breeding these as well as sexy shrimp when I get my tanks set back up "and get a job again" but what is the best/easiest way to tell the sexes apart?
I know they are distinctly male and female unlike clowns who can change sexes

I always read to buy 4-5 and let a pair form but I just dont have a large enough tank to buy that many to hope to get a pair out of it "with my luck I would end up with all males or all females"
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#21
Pickle010

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Maybe I missed it but I am wanting to try my hand at breeding these as well as sexy shrimp when I get my tanks set back up "and get a job again" but what is the best/easiest way to tell the sexes apart?


I'm curious about that as well.... I can't tell Bangaii's apart.

Edited by Pickle010, 15 December 2011 - 10:18 PM.


#22
Euphyllia

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I'm curious about that as well.... I can't tell Bangaii's apart.


I believe the males have a more "Squared" (zing) jaw and stomach and the females are rounded from their jaw to their stomach... Or maybe the contrary. :unsure:

#23
altolamprologus

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Can't wait to see the tank up and running! I've seen pictures of cardinal rearing tanks before. The fry are so cute!!!

How is the male doing? Did you get him to spit out the eggs or what? Update!! :)

The male swallowed after holding for 2 days. I think he's still too young and inexperienced to hold to full term. It usually takes a couple clutches for them to get it right.

How exciting! I have been wanting to start breeding these guys. I will be following :D

Thanks :) When I get babies maybe we can do a trade for clownfish.

Maybe I missed it but I am wanting to try my hand at breeding these as well as sexy shrimp when I get my tanks set back up "and get a job again" but what is the best/easiest way to tell the sexes apart?
I know they are distinctly male and female unlike clowns who can change sexes

I always read to buy 4-5 and let a pair form but I just dont have a large enough tank to buy that many to hope to get a pair out of it "with my luck I would end up with all males or all females"

Here's a good (though slightly outdated article) on them. Basically the females are more "rounded" than the males. Their bellies have an outward curve while the male's belly is flat. The female's jawline curves right into her belly line while the male's curves then flattens out when it hits the belly. Males tend to have a longer banner fin (second dorsal) but sometimes the female's is longer so don't use that as your only clue. The squared jaw thing only happens after the male carries his first clutch so it's ok to use to sex breeding adults, but doesn't work on juveniles. Also if you look close at the belly near the tail, you will notice little black things sticking out of the fish. Those are the vets. Males have one vent and females have 2. In juveniles, you can only see them when the fish is well fed. In adults, they stick out all the time.

It's much easier to just buy a captive bred pair rather than worrying about sexing. Plus, it's something like 60% of wild banggais die within a couple weeks because of an iridovirus that has no symptoms until the day before death. I lost 4 cardinals within 2 weeks of buying due to the virus. Trust me, it's cheaper and less frustrating to buy a captive bred pair to begin with.

I'm curious about that as well.... I can't tell Bangaii's apart.

It takes some practice to sex them. In my pair, I know who is who based on size and spot pattern, but with other banggais I have to look closely.

I believe the males have a more "Squared" (zing) jaw and stomach and the females are rounded from their jaw to their stomach... Or maybe the contrary. :unsure:

You got it right. Lol @ "squared"

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#24
smitty_1280

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Very cool thread. I know stuff about clowns, but nothing about Cardinals. Seems like you have done your homework. I have a question, once the eggs hatch, how do you keep the fry alive? Do you have to move them to a separate tank, or is this completely different from raising clown fry?
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#25
altolamprologus

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Very cool thread. I know stuff about clowns, but nothing about Cardinals. Seems like you have done your homework. I have a question, once the eggs hatch, how do you keep the fry alive? Do you have to move them to a separate tank, or is this completely different from raising clown fry?

The male keeps the fry in his mouth for a few days after they hatch until they absorb their yolk sack, so they are fairly large when he spits them. They also exhibit direct development, so they skip the larval stage completely and they hatch out as fully developed mini adults. Basically you treat them like post-meta clowns. They have to be moved to a different tank (or at least to a sectioned off portion of the tank) because females have no qualms about eating their own young.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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