Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[brandon429]

Thank you for the 2016 update on GHA attacks~ I remember the 2014 one where those rock anems held firm and when I see the anemone you sent me in the water bottle I'll photograph him again heh

 

That is the first and only time I've ever exchanged a reef animal via regular mail that was sick. Of course I cant see him today but he's there somewhere pokes out occasionally. I cannot biologically explain his micro smallness that's abnormal for the genus but highly convenient for my purposes

 

A typical unfurled rock anem would touch wall to wall in my vase glad to have a mini version however that came about!

[seabass]

Yeah, my baby nems are still pretty small too (about the size of a typical zoanthid polyp). I think that's because I don't target feed them. Unfortunately, it looks like I might have lost a few due to letting the algae get out of control. However, it also appears that I've got another small batch of new baby rock flower anemones to take their place. These anemones are the only reason that I don't get super aggressive with the peroxide treatments on those rocks.

 

The last time, I got the rocks nearly clear of algae, and meant to do a couple follow-up treatments; however, I got busy/lazy and let the algae take over again. This time I'm going to try to eradicate it completely by continuing treatments until there is no trace of hair algae. Then I'm going to move everything except the rock flower anemones to my 100 gallon Pacific reef tank (dedicating this 40 gallon tank to the anemones, and maybe a couple of Caribbean fish).

[seabass]

I had to do something, as my livestock was suffering. Here is my holding tank as of last weekend.

 

I manually removed a gallon bag of algae.

 

Here's the after shot (prior to any peroxide treatments).

 

Here it is today (after more manual removal and two peroxide dips).

This was my second treatment (I performed the first last weekend). Still not great, but getting better.

 

I hesitate to give peroxide advice, due to the risks. However, I'll describe what I did, and the outcome.

 

For my peroxide treatment, I filled a container with 5 gallons of 3% hydrogen peroxide (and added 2.5 cups of salt mix to help prevent osmotic shock). The other container was just saltwater. One by one, I took out the frags and rocks, submerged them in the peroxide solution, held them up to drain off much of the solution, submerged them in the saltwater solution, and returned them to the tank.

I didn't take an after shot of the dipping containers, but I have found that bristle worms don't care for peroxide. They leave the rock and quickly die in the peroxide (although a single dip like this will not get rid of them all). I also find that snails don't do very well getting dipped in 3% peroxide (so I remove them prior to dipping).

 

The rocks in this tank contain anemones (BTAs, RFAs, and mini-carpets). The coral frags are mostly zoas, palys, and LPS. Things are holding up pretty well. I will continue the peroxide treatments until I get this in check.

 

Week 2 (after third salty peroxide dip):

 

How most of the rocks look close up:

[brandon429]

May I link those fine pix to the r2r thread with all credit given, they are juicy good, they are juicy good.

Ryengoth poster from reef2reef
http://reef2reef.com/members/ryengoth.55364/
is doing hard work research on glycerine as a weight for in tank work, people want in tank ideas more than they want external work ideas check out mad monster mixing syringe

[seabass]

May I link those fine pix to the r2r thread with all credit given, they are juicy good.

Sure, feel free.

 

... check out mad monster mixing syringe

That's wicket awesome.

[rosecity]

Just wanted to say a big thanks to Brandon for his tireless efforts on using H202. I actually had a nasty case of hair algae and some bryopsis in my 20 long reef tank. This tank is bare bottom, uses RODI water for changes and top offs, very lightly fed, two 50% water changes every week and vacuumed spotless twice per week. Ran carbon, GFO and purigen. Blues on for 8 hrs, whites 4 hrs. High flow. Did not matter algae would keep on growing. Compare this to my other tank that gets 10% water changes weekly, lights on all day, overstocked, overfed, sandbed that gets vacuumed a few times per year, running just carbon and floss, mich less flow and only gets algae on the glass every 7-10 days.

 

The problem is I bought into the garbage on marine boards that gets recycled over and over that if you perform good husbandry and have clean water you will not get algae. If you do get algae then your husbandy must be lacking. WRONG. Then I always read the garbage that to get rid of algae just do large water changes, use this that and the other and it will go away. WRONG AGAIN. Once algae gets a hold I have found it needs LESS nutrients than your coral pr macro algae to keep thriving. You would have to kill your corals by stripping everything from the water BEFORE that would have a good effect on algae.

 

So I came across your fervent posts Brandon and started my own research. I sprayed straight 3% H202 on the affected rocks outside of the tank and let them sizzle for about 3-4 mins. I then lightly rinsed them in RODI freshwater and put them back in the tank. Of course in 3 days the hair algae and small amount of bryopsis were gone. Using 30 cents worth of H202 and 3 days time did what hundreds of dollars on carbon, gfo, phosban, constant large water changes, countless hours and a load of other crap could not in 18 months.

 

Algae dead, what next. I continued my research and found a cheap, nifty Oxydator D device readily available in Europe but not the USA that people have been using with great success to keep algae at bay. Seemed like a good fit for my 20 long. Could this device really take the place of chemipure, purigen, phosban, carbon, reactors, huge and frequent water changes? Why is it not available in the USA? I decided to give the Oxydator a whirl and only run filter floss in an AC70 for mechanical filtration. This size I replace the H202 every 14 days and use one catalyst and 8% H202. So far the water is sparkling clear, algae on the glass every 3 weeks instead of weekly, and no hair algae on the rocks. 25% weekly water change is it and vacuuming once per week is it. I know instructions are to use max 6% H202 but I like the 8% as it seems to release a small amount into the tank that oxidises the organics and allows my floss to capture them easily to maintain crystal clear water (more clear then chemipure and carbon). Rox, GFO, Purigen subscriptions all cancelled. I think I know why this device is not promoted in the USA lol.

 

Oh and Brandon sometimes your posts really make my head spin (the kind you get when you dose yourself Vodka). Half the time I don't know if you are making new words up or you are just so much more educated than I am that it is just going over my head. But at the end I always know what you mean. Your style is a cross between Yoda and Davinci. I like it. Much beter than the usual drivel that is just years upon years of rehashed garbage that floats around this hobby and really holds it back but makes $$$ for a select few.

[brandon429]

RoseCity your post is factual and entertaining in every way. My posts are usually a mix of my take on a current matter plus all forward and retro justifications for having stated whatever I did in anticipation of strong kickback for claims made heh

 

 

 

 

 

thanks tons for that follow up, beating GHA is the most fun of all. its the bane of aquarists. the masters have had 30 years to find a repeatable way of keeping it out of tanks. I hate that we have to use this harsh cheat, but lack of better alternatives keeps us going. Peroxide was what saved my tank, not other traditional methods.

[seabass]

In case anybody is interested, these two shots were taken just after the forth weekly salty peroxide dip:

 

By the end of the day they open up a bit more, but remain a little deflated for a few days.

[brandon429]

Glad to see that detail. We only classed anems on the sensitive list due to that angry state but in all the various posts I can't recall one loss of any genus of anem. They do universally shrivel up a while though huh

[jedimasterben]

My magnifica doesn't even flinch with 3% anymore. 35% makes it all shrivelly for a few hours, but I would imagine with some time and a slow dose rate that it would get used to it without much issue.

[seabass]

They do universally shrivel up a while though huh

My BTAs tend to react to 3% like the above pics; but by the next week, I'm pretty comfortable subjecting them to another round. My rock flower anemones are less sensitive and bounce back more quickly. The mini-carpets seem to bounce back the quickest of them all. I had one BTA change rocks after the last dip.

[seabass]

In case anybody is interested, these two shots were taken just after the forth weekly salty peroxide dip:

 

 

By the end of the day they open up a bit more, but remain a little deflated for a few days.

 

 

Next day:

 

[brandon429]

Linked for friends at reef to reef they w benefit in seeing your anem documentation work SB

 

You have after pics of a journey some haven't completed yet. I've never owned an anemone except for the rascal you mailed me in a water bottle who will clearly be bright yellow in maturity can't wait.

 

http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.234222/

[D3monic]

I'm planning on doing some peroxide dip this weekend. I let this tank go for a long time and i'm trying to get it back on track again.

 

 

Here it is after lots of manual removal and mait. Duncans look like they are on their way out. That was my own fault though accidentally did a dip in fresh tap water not paying attention.

 

 

Still a long way to go. Will start with the smaller rocks and maybe eventually do the 40lb rock in the middle though i'm not looking foward to pulling it out or destroying the yasha gobies tunnel work under it.

 

 

Peroxide kill the red turf algae too?

[brandon429]

Yes absolutely the red has a nine day delayed die off phase it seems to not work initially then it does.

 

The hallmark change in rhodophyta genus treatment is the bright fluorescent red change it does after about 24 hrs, that's the harbinger

 

try and photo it for us if you can! Excellent prospect here. Looking at the cross section of the sandbed it didn't appear all that dirty but if you really want to go dangerous clean, and we have the threads for this, you can actually take apart the sandbed and clean it with no recycle that's an art form we perfect in doing true full tank cleanings. I do mine every 4 mos yours may only need one mass cleaning to catch up

 

If your sandbed is clean and a minor disturbance won't cause a mini cycle, you may not to do the full parted cleaning. But if there's any hesitancy in accessing that bed for concern of mini cycle, that directly indicates the need to clean it and remove that potential, IMO.

 

It is not hard to clean that bed fully and have no mini cycle, but a revamped tank upon reassembly. Skip cycle science is darn useful.

[D3monic]

I got a new test kit on the way, I suspect that the leading cause of my issue is phosphates in my rodi rez. I've been using the same brute trashcan for 6-7 years. It may be time to change to a different rez or may even be my RODI filter is bad. I'll have a better idea soon as my test kit gets here this weekend.

[seabass]

D3, I see you have a fire shrimp. They are sensitive to peroxide, so be sure to rinse off the peroxide thoroughly before returning the rocks to your tank.

[D3monic]

Ok will do, also a sexy shrimp and pom pom crab

[seabass]

My magnifica doesn't even flinch with 3% anymore. 35% makes it all shrivelly for a few hours, but I would imagine with some time and a slow dose rate that it would get used to it without much issue.

It seems that lately, my anemones are recovering faster (after being subjected to these quick dips). I wonder just how resistant animals become to treatments. Also, I wonder if algae could somehow become resistant to peroxide as well, or is it just basic cell biology and it will always be as effective?

[D3monic]

How does corallin hold up to the dips? That doesn't get killed off does it?

[Learn It]

I used this same method with great success. Never again will I "ghost feed" to start a cycle...

[seabass]

How does corallin hold up to the dips? That doesn't get killed off does it?

IME, coralline algae isn't effected. Not sure about the biology of it; probably due to its calcium structure.

 

Never again will I "ghost feed" to start a cycle...

Amen, spread the word. I never understood how rotting food (with the resulting organics and nutrients) was better than a clean source of ammonia. Of course, with live rock, you don't even have to add ammonia.

[D3monic]

I did a peroxide dip on the rock front left a few days ago. There's some orange discoloration on some the coraline, red turf algae turned neon and fading to white and HA greyish and dead looking now.

 

[Halo_003]

Quick update: peroxide dips, rock scrubbing and peroxide dosing (all at the same time) had no effect on getting rid of my bryopsis problems, I'm currently treating with Kent Tech M and hoping it works.

[brandon429]

Here's good documentation of me doing valonia in my own tank, removing rocks/frags as needed, actually scrape removing the offender (often left out of most attempts) and then using peroxide on the clean spot, valonia beaten:

 

http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/page-11

 

 

if I was adding something to the water to beat the valonia, that might not have worked for sure. This action above is total substrate control, has opposite outcomes vs any method that leaves a target on the rock and treats the water.

 

a pic documentation that shows the kill from an external treatment (all algae die on initial pass and can be photographed at that stage for the kill demo, next step is regrowth demo) is done on a test rock, before whole tank work is done. Tank work is only done after the test rock work, it establishes all proofs before efforts are done on the rest of the target. If the test rock phase is skipped we are lacking cause/effect info for the outcome.

 

test rocks can also include non peroxide direct treatment, tech m for example. Two different test rocks one for peroxide one for magnesium could be used. If someone can't kill bryopsis with direct contact of X, then spiking the water with diluted forms won't help (heart of the test rock method)

 

The reason I did not require a test rock demo is because I treated the water zero and treated the actual spot harshly, it stood no chance, it was scraped off the rock then peroxided. Part of detailing the test rock approach is it doesn't allow for purposefully leaving the invader in the tank...most peroxide runs are water treatments while leaving a target on the rock, a no work approach, which got the invader established in the first place so we want to plan as oppositely as that method as possible.