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#101
Whys

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I would suggest increasing feeding for the female.


That did the trick! I must have at least 50 larvae in the kriesel as of last night.


Some tips for hatching brine shrimp...

Temp, temp, temp, and bright light. Before extraction, I place a bright light at the base of the reactor, cover the sides with black plastic (aquarium backing), and wait for a few minutes, but no more than 10 so they don't suffocate each other. Proper water temp makes a huge difference in the hatch rate within a 24 hour period, and a bright light really improves concentration during extraction, as they are attracted to it. Eliminating ambient light inside the reactor also helps.

Also, if you're thinking about becoming a marine breeder, know that baby brine shrimp will become a daily, if not twice daily, ritual. Every... single... day. Success is a matter of lifestyle. I now hatch them more consistently than I brush my teeth. :D

You have to make the time, but It's not hard once you get into the rhythm. Another month of this and I'll be doing it in my sleep. :)

Edited by Whys, 22 February 2012 - 04:01 PM.

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#102
Whys

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Woohoo! You can store decapped eggs in the fridge for weeks too, so you can decap quite a few on each go. Just mix enough saltwater to cover the eggs plus 1/2" or so, and then mix as much salt mix as you can into the saltwater to the point when it doesn't really want to dissolve anymore. Pour that over the decapped eggs and they will last at least a month.

What makes you think the BS are dying? Why would they die when the shrimp larvae are still living?


Starvation? It's a decent question, I just haven't looked into it so far.


Quick update...

I had another female release larvae last night. They seem to really prefer releasing at night. Anyway, I now have something like 100+ larvae in the kreisel. Woohoo! :)

Also, my ammonia alert is edging up again, but my saltwater just started mixing and it needs another 24 hours to off gas. Lets hope they can wait a day.

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#103
Whys

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Yes, starvation would cause death of the BS. Have you considered also adding either live or preserved phyto to feed the BS? Easier to just remove them though... using half starved BS couldn't be very nutritious.



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Size matters. :D

I assume they're starving, but I haven't looked into it because it makes more sense to hatch daily anyway. Freshly hatched BBS are not only more nutritious, but easier for the larvae to catch and hang on to. While supplementing the BBS is certainly a clever idea, the fact is, once I've moved onto cultures such as rotifers, I'll just use them to feed the larvae directly. BBS are just a starting point for me, because they're easier and less prone to crash.

Also, you have to realize, I'm running a continuous system. If the BBS didn't die of starvation, they'd eventually die of old age. My breeder produce a new clutch of larvae before the previous clutch dies off, thus I'm continually adding new larvae to the kreisel without a reset.

At the moment, I'm not bothering to remove the BBS. Instead, I'm bringing my sand bed up to speed so the bacteria can eat it all. Today I had to do a 50% water change tho, so it's not up to speed just yet. What is actually of greater concern to me is that it's driving algae growth inside the kreisel drum. The Chaeto in the fuge is supposed to take care of that, but with this much nitrification taking place, the light fixture is insufficient for the Chaeto to absorb it all.

I'm developing a real dislike of normal-output T5 fixtures. :/


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Daily bottom siphoning to remove dead BS?

Sorry if I already posted this, but have you seen this?
Broodstock and Larval Nutrition of Marine Ornamental Shrimp by Junda Lin, Dong Zhang and Andrew L. Rhyne. Btw, Rhyne is "spawner" on MOFIB. I don't think it mentions Sexy shrimp, though it is something to go on. :)


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#104
Whys

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22 days post hatch, 2 larvae remaining.


The Good

TrueLumen Pro 8000K 24" LED x2
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Posted Image

At 3 LEDs & 1 watt per inch, this thing is brighter than T5-HO or even PCs of equivalent length. I could probably get by with just one, but why not two? I've lashed them together with some eggcrate and fishing line.

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Yep, this will finally give my stunted Chaeto ample light in the fuge and stop that annoying algae from growing inside the kreisel. About that algae...


The Bad

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It's ugly, invasive, wiry, and fast growing. It seems to require next to no light and creeps across surfaces with a web of ivy like "roots" that cling. It doesn't come off easily and always leaves some "roots" behind. It's terrible.

Ahh... but now I can relax, confident in the knowledge that my new LEDs will --Hey! How'd that cute little jelly fish get in here?

Huh... time to take a closer look at that algae...

{click}
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That can't be right. Lets try video...























The Beautiful

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Video: Colonial Hydroids

Video: Hydroid Medusa


Hydroids can sting and kill the larvae. They're also competing for the same food supply: baby brine shrimp. They have a complex life cycle and can go dormant, making them near impossible to erradicate.

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Narg... only two known methods for killing these things. One only works half the time and the other entails significant consequences.


Heat treatment
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Some types of hydroids can be eradicated from the aquarium by raising the water temperature to 92įF or above for period of 3-5 days (Liisa Coit, pers. com.). Keep all of the filters and equipment operating so that the hot water circulates throughout them and destroys any hydroids or hydromedusae that may be present in the filtration system. (Seahorses and their tankmates, including snails and the cleanup crew, must be removed to a temporary holding tank while the heat treatment is carried out.) Maintaining the water temperature at 92į for this period does not harm the beneficial nitrifying bacteria in your biofilter, injure marine plants or macroalgae, or kill off copepods and other beneficial microfauna (Liisa Coit, pers.com.).

After the treatment period, perform a large water change to assure that the die off of hydroids does not degrade your water quality, and adjust the water temperature back to normal, and all the animals can be returned to the aquarium. The tank will not undergo a "mini cycle" and there will be no ammonia or nitrite spikes (Liisa Coit, pers. com.).

However, not all types of hydroids respond to the heat treatment method of eradication. The snowflake type of hydroids that are all too common seem to have no difficulty surviving the heat treatment. So generally speaking, then Panacur is a more reliable way to eliminate them. Some folks might describe the snowflake type of hydroids as "fuzzy starfish," in which case the heat treatment may not be effective. If you're fuzzy hydroids do not resemble snowflakes, then there is an decent chance that the heat treatment will be effective.


Panacur
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Your best weapon against hydroids is a drug called Fenbendazole (Panacur). However, you should familiarize yourself thoroughly with this drug before using, or better yet, talk to your veterinarian first. Reeftools and its colleagues can not be held responsible for any result of you reading this blog and using Fenbendazole. Personally, Iíve used this drug safely with dwarf seahorses and Fundulus hetero####us Killifish. Iíve read that it can be safely used with other fish fry such as Clownfish. In low doses it can be safe for clean up crews such as Nassarius snails, cleaner shrimp, and hermit crabs. Be careful and do lots of research before using Fenbendazole.

Any living creatures or plants you want to add to your dwarf seahorse or fry tank should be treated with Fenbendazole first. Keep in mind, most invertebrates and corals DO NOT tolerate Fenbendazole and will die. Macroalgae such as Caulerpa and Chaetomorpha as well as the beneficial nitrifying bacteria in live rock handle treatment with the drug very well. Fenbendazole is by no stretch of the imagination considered to be reef safe. So donít dose your reef tank with this stuff. Fenbendazole also tends to absorb into glass and rock, leaching into your tank forever. The granules seem to leach worse than the liquid does.



The Ugly

On March 9th, I had my largest larvae hatch yet! 100+. Too bad I didn't have a good home for them and had to let them go. :/

Video: 0 days post hatch

...and for comparison...

Video: 22 days post hatch

The magnification is the same at the beginning of both videos. As we can see, there is a significant difference in size and a few structural changes. I put the 22-day-old back in the kreisel and he seems fine, but for how long? :(


Moving On

Think I'll try the heat treatment first. :]

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#105
NancyC

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Look at that! This is the kind of thread I really enjoy stumbling upon. Subscribed.

#106
pj86

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You are making great progress. Any updates?

#107
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why,
im a little concerned about the state of my females eggs. im begining to think they r duds. can females carry eggs that arent fertilized?. most of the eggs seem light in color to whitish for my liking and im not entirely sure i see any babies in them. sometimes i think i see a little dot in some but for the most part nothing really. have u had any experience with this happening?. i noticed them carrying the eggs on 4/22 and today is the 26th. could they just not be very far along yet thats why im not really seeing anything yet?. i hear they carrying the eggs around 2-3 weeks?.

#108
Whys

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why,
im a little concerned about the state of my females eggs. im begining to think they r duds. can females carry eggs that arent fertilized?. most of the eggs seem light in color to whitish for my liking and im not entirely sure i see any babies in them. sometimes i think i see a little dot in some but for the most part nothing really. have u had any experience with this happening?. i noticed them carrying the eggs on 4/22 and today is the 26th. could they just not be very far along yet thats why im not really seeing anything yet?. i hear they carrying the eggs around 2-3 weeks?.


That's an excellent question, but I'm guessing probably not. I've had females produce very small clutches before, but no obvious duds. I've also heard of females ejecting their eggs early when they give up on them. So if they're still tucked away and swelling up, they'll probably hatch. Takes about two weeks.

Here's a decent resource for times, durations, and ETAs: PJ86's Thor Amboinensis Breeding Journal

I haven't had the opportunity to look at an egg under the scope, but I have gotten a look thru the tank glass with my micronta hand held. Occasionally a female will adjust and rotate the eggs, lifting them one at a time. They are in fact mostly transparent, but appear red while tucked under the tail. They start out mostly round with a pair of black dots for eyes and elongate into an oval as they grow. By the time they're ready to pop, they look like shrink-wrapped pollywogs.

Posted Image

*Note: throughout this thread I have accidentally transposed the first 'o' and 'i' in "amboinensis". As some of these typos appear in photo or video, they can no longer be corrected.

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#109
chippwalters

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Yup. Fascinating stuff! Following along...

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#110
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That's an excellent question, but I'm guessing probably not. I've had females produce very small clutches before, but no obvious duds. I've also heard of females ejecting their eggs early when they give up on them. So if they're still tucked away and swelling up, they'll probably hatch. Takes about two weeks.

Here's a decent resource for times, durations, and ETAs: PJ86's Thor Amboinensis Breeding Journal

I haven't had the opportunity to look at an egg under the scope, but I have gotten a look thru the tank glass with my micronta hand held. Occasionally a female will adjust and rotate the eggs, lifting them one at a time. They are in fact mostly transparent, but appear red while tucked under the tail. They start out mostly round with a pair of black dots for eyes and elongate into an oval as they grow. By the time they're ready to pop, they look like shrink-wrapped pollywogs.

Posted Image

*Note: throughout this thread I have accidentally transposed the first 'o' and 'i' in "amboinensis". As some of these typos appear in photo or video, they can no longer be corrected.

cool, thanks for the info. their bottoms do appear to be getting fatter. i think they r just not as far along thats why i cant see the actual babies inside yet. i do have another question. i plan on adding my brine shrimp eggs directly into my babies tank, do u for see any problems with this?. i know everyone seems to have a seperate hatchery for the brine but i dont really see the need for it. im trying to do things the cheapest easiest way. the only thing i can think of by doing it this way is maybe increasing the waste load but if i siphon the shells out often i think it should be good. thoughts on this please.

#111
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the egg casings will foul the water.. bad idea in every direction.. unless you are planning to use decapsulated brine.. then you just have to worry about anything that actually doesnt hatch fouling the water.. imo still a bad idea to add either directly to the rearing tank.

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#112
Whys

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cool, thanks for the info. their bottoms do appear to be getting fatter. i think they r just not as far along thats why i cant see the actual babies inside yet. i do have another question. i plan on adding my brine shrimp eggs directly into my babies tank, do u for see any problems with this?. i know everyone seems to have a seperate hatchery for the brine but i dont really see the need for it. im trying to do things the cheapest easiest way. the only thing i can think of by doing it this way is maybe increasing the waste load but if i siphon the shells out often i think it should be good. thoughts on this please.


Use a hatchery. Or better yet, use two. :)

Here is a tutorial for what I use, tho it actually works better with identical 1-liter bottles, if you can find them: Triple 2-Liter Plankton Reactor Tutorial.

You want to feed freshly hatched baby brine shrimp every 12 hours, but it takes 24 for the eggs to hatch, so you need to run two hatcheries simultaneously. Older BBS are not as nutritious and harder for the larvae to catch.

Consider decapsulating the brine shrimp eggs, or buy them decapsulated. There's more than one good reason to do so. Also, do a little reading on colonial hydroids. You'll find a lot of references to "dwarf seahorse" tanks. Read them, because they're relevant. Colonial hydroids are easily the second greatest barrier to success.

What's the first? Feeding BBS every 12 hours, every single day, over and over, until you want to puke. Pro Tip: learn to like it. ;)

Have you started a thread? Please link it.

Edited by Whys, 27 April 2012 - 07:53 PM.

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#113
ShrimpyPooh

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Use a hatchery. Or better yet, use two. :)

Here is a tutorial for what I use, tho it actually works better with identical 1-liter bottles, if you can find them: Triple 2-Liter Plankton Reactor Tutorial.

You want to feed freshly hatched baby brine shrimp every 12 hours, but it takes 24 for the eggs to hatch, so you need to run two hatcheries simultaneously. Older BBS are not as nutritious and harder for the larvae to catch.

Consider decapsulating the brine shrimp eggs, or buy them decapsulated. There's more than one good reason to do so. Also, do a little reading on colonial hydroids. You'll find a lot of references to "dwarf seahorse" tanks. Read them, because they're relevant. Colonial hydroids are easily the second greatest barrier to success.

What's the first? Feeding BBS every 12 hours, every single day, over and over, until you want to puke. Pro Tip: learn to like it. ;)

Have you started a thread? Please link it.

well bad news i guess the eggs must have been duds afterall cause one of my girls shed and her eggs r needless to say gone now and the other one doesnt appear to be carrying anymore either, :/ very strange. but i guess for the best cause looks like ill be needing to save up some money for hacthing bbs equipment. i really was hoping to just add them to the fry tank and just clean the shells out everyday to save on some money...still might try it that way though ;) we'll see.

#114
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o and at the store around here sells that San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp Hatchery for 15$!!! can u believe that. thats why i didnt want to buy that and plus the air pump and they told me a heater as well cause the water needs to be at 80degrees for the eggs to hatch... is that true or will they hatch at a lower heat i know it says on packet but wanted to see from yer experence. how many time have yer sexy shrimp bred succesfully?

#115
bizzarro

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Look up something called Artemia hatchery dish for hatching brine. I haven't tried it myself but favorable reviews on it.

#116
altolamprologus

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You mean this? It hatches brine so well I swear it's witchcraft. I highly recommend it.

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#117
bizzarro

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You mean this? It hatches brine so well I swear it's witchcraft. I highly recommend it.


Yeah, my cardinal died so I didn't bother with this... If my clowns spawn I would get it.

Here's some pics from a user review.

http://www.plantedta...ine-shrimp.html

Edited by bizzarro, 28 April 2012 - 08:40 PM.


#118
ShrimpyPooh

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You mean this? It hatches brine so well I swear it's witchcraft. I highly recommend it.

wow that seems like the best and easiest way by far!. will have to look into it more. just discovered one of the females has eggs again i dont know whats going on. ididnt know they could lay more eggs this fast

#119
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has anyone experienced their sexy shrimp eating their own eggs?. im 98% positive i saw mine eat some of hers today. i also dont think they r getting fertilized is it possible she is producing eggs but the male isnt fertillzing them? im

#120
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looks like i see little black eyes in my eggs, hopefully the girls will carry them all the way

#121
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Tagging along, I've got 4 sexies in my EcoPico and never thought to look for eggs!

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#122
Whys

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well bad news i guess the eggs must have been duds afterall cause one of my girls shed and her eggs r needless to say gone now and the other one doesnt appear to be carrying anymore either, :/ very strange. but i guess for the best cause looks like ill be needing to save up some money for hacthing bbs equipment. i really was hoping to just add them to the fry tank and just clean the shells out everyday to save on some money...still might try it that way though ;) we'll see.

Link

o and at the store around here sells that San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp Hatchery for 15$!!! can u believe that. thats why i didnt want to buy that and plus the air pump and they told me a heater as well cause the water needs to be at 80degrees for the eggs to hatch... is that true or will they hatch at a lower heat i know it says on packet but wanted to see from yer experence. how many time have yer sexy shrimp bred succesfully?

Link

Look up something called Artemia hatchery dish for hatching brine. I haven't tried it myself but favorable reviews on it.

Link

You mean this? It hatches brine so well I swear it's witchcraft. I highly recommend it.

Link

Yeah, my cardinal died so I didn't bother with this... If my clowns spawn I would get it.

Here's some pics from a user review.

http://www.plantedta...ine-shrimp.html

Link

wow that seems like the best and easiest way by far!. will have to look into it more. just discovered one of the females has eggs again i dont know whats going on. ididnt know they could lay more eggs this fast

Link

has anyone experienced their sexy shrimp eating their own eggs?. im 98% positive i saw mine eat some of hers today. i also dont think they r getting fertilized is it possible she is producing eggs but the male isnt fertillzing them? im

It's possible they were fertilized but then abandoned for some other reason.

Link

looks like i see little black eyes in my eggs, hopefully the girls will carry them all the way

Link

Tagging along, I've got 4 sexies in my EcoPico and never thought to look for eggs!

How many male and female?

Edited by Whys, 15 May 2012 - 05:25 PM.

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#123
Whys

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Well it's been 8 weeks since I stopped adding BBS to the kreisel and started experimenting with the hydroids. Here is what I have tried so far, in chronological order.

Heat Treatment (93 degrees for 1wk)... fail!
Flatworm-Exit (2x dosage for 24hr)... fail!
Ammonia Spike (~0.2ppm)... fail!
Cold Treatment (68 degrees for 1wk)... fail!
Starvation (no food for 8wk)... fail!

I refuse to use fenbendazole (aka: Panacur) because it absorbs into then leaches out of rock and glass indefinitely. While this may be acceptable for some types of larvae (ie: dwarf seahorse), it can still prove fatal to many others. And tho Thor amboinensis are a resilient species, Chelidonura varians are not. There is simply no way to predict what effect fenbendazole might have on BVN larvae later on in my research. I could potentially discover the BVN cue and still fail to settle the larvae due to the presence of fenbendazole leaching from the glass. Worse still, I'd never know it. :/

Recently, hobbyists have been experimenting with alternative dewormers, such as flubendazole and levamisole, but they all seem to suffer from similar issues to a greater or lesser extent. Thus their use is unacceptable for my research, with one possible exception: flatworm-exit.

No one is entirely certain what the active ingredient in flatworm-exit is, but there is reason to believe it too is a dewormer. There is scant evidence of FWE successfully treating hydroids, but at recommended levels it is considered to be mostly reef safe and does not leach into and out of rock and glass. Thus whatever it is and for whatever it's worth, I consider it safe for experimentation up to 2x dosage.

The cold treatment wasn't really intentional; my heater died. Due to recent issues with quality control, I no longer recommend Finnex titanium heaters.


So.... results? None to speak of. :(

While there is some suggestion that FWE may kill the medusa, nothing has had a significant impact on the hydroid colony itself. It's skinny, but healthy and moving. Narg... :/

In a word: one-tough-son-of-a-#####!

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#124
pj86

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Take all the water out and let it dry.

#125
Spencer7

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Read whole thread and I am relatively speechless,what intially comes to mind is something like...

dat #### cray

Advice Attempt
Use your super siphon (1mm opening) to suck up individuals...

Dry out Kreisel

Disconnect from system and do a super high iodine dose (guessing here)

For motivation look back at your old posts, and inspirational threads to try and re kindle some of that enthuasism/commitment, if you want it enough it will happen

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