Jump to content
Whys

Sexy Breeding -- Live nudes!

Recommended Posts

Marteen

When I was raising freshwater fish we used to breed angelfish. Hydroids would be a problem since they would eat fry. I was told that running current through the tank would kill hydroids pretty effectively without harming your bacterial population. You could take a big old 12v battery connect two wires up and plop them in the tank, inhabitants removed for safety, and treat the tank for 15 minutes increments for several days. Supposedly this interrupted the lifecycle of hydroids since the medusa stage could not survive the electrical current.

 

We did this on our breeder tank a few times and it seemed to work. I'm not sure how it would apply to saltwater hydroids though.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

Link

You're still plugging away at this project, eh? You're very determined. :D


Perhaps. Or maybe I'm just always exactly where it is I want to be. :)

Thank you for following.

Link

When I was raising freshwater fish we used to breed angelfish. Hydroids would be a problem since they would eat fry. I was told that running current through the tank would kill hydroids pretty effectively without harming your bacterial population. You could take a big old 12v battery connect two wires up and plop them in the tank, inhabitants removed for safety, and treat the tank for 15 minutes increments for several days. Supposedly this interrupted the lifecycle of hydroids since the medusa stage could not survive the electrical current.

We did this on our breeder tank a few times and it seemed to work. I'm not sure how it would apply to saltwater hydroids though.


ack.gifShocking!


Now it's time for a little segment,
I like to call:

what_is_it.jpg

Okay fellas, here it is. That's a 250-micron nylon-mesh cylinder with a PVC coupler on one end, a PVC end-cap on the other, and a rubber plug plugging a quarter inch hole on the end of the end-cap.

joy_toy.jpg

What is it? biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

I'm guessing it is a way to quarantine the pregnant sexy shrimp before they release larvae to make catching the larvae easier. What is the exact setup going to be though? Will this be placed in the same tank as the pregnant sexy originated from until larvae are released. Integrated into plumbing?

 

I'm also trying to work on breeding sexy shrimp and am waiting for larvae to be released, everything else has been prepared. I assume my males aren't mature enough since they seem even smaller than most other males. I've had 4 females and 2 males for a couple months now with nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

Close.... :)

When I started, I had a large male, a small male, and a few females. The larger male got all of the attention, but then mysteriously disappeared. I gave the smaller male some time to work his magic, but they just weren't interested, so I moved him out and bought more shrimp. All of the new males were still very small, but I put one in the breeder anyway. Despite his diminutive size, the females warmed up to him quickly and have been breeding non-stop ever since. Currently, I have 6 medium to large females and the one still small male. 5 of the females tend to group, while the sixth, having been added later, still tends to remain at a distance, despite being the biggest shrimp. She and the small male still breed even tho she is 3 times his size. She also produces the largest clutch.

 

Based on this experience, it would seem the shrimp have personalities and personal preference. There is an in-group, an out-group, females that like big males, males that like big females, and those that say size doesn't matter. :D

 

Good luck with it!

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

I came to the conclusion that the reason I wasn't seeing much difference after the first minute was most likely because the eggs were getting entirely decapsulated within that first minute. Thus for my second test, I decided to slow the reaction down and used a 50% solution. I took samples from 1 to 4 minutes at 30 second intervals, then looked at them under the scope. Ah ha! Now I was seeing change over time, but it didn't appear as tho I had tested long enough.

For my third test, I again used 50% solution and took samples from 4 to 7 minutes at 1 minute intervals. Below are the results. Keep in mind that the scope light had to be progressively dimmed to prevent glare as the eggs became increasingly transparent. Photoshop was used to help correct for this and as a result it is difficult to appreciate the full differences in translucency.

{click for larger image.}
bust_a_decap_in_your_arse.jpg

This of course raises the question: what do we want?

Decapsulation serves two primary purposes:

  • Sanitize
  • Hatch Assist

I suspect that first one is mostly accomplished within the first 30 seconds. Everything after that is to make the egg shell as thin as possible so hatching is easier. Just don't kill the contents!

At 4 minutes, the shells are only beginning to dissolve and at 7 nearly no shells remain. Thus, to my own untrained eye, 4 minutes appears too early and 7 minutes appears too late. Additionally, by 7 minutes I noticed that same raw-egg-yolk like consistency starting to develop in the water. You can see it; the bubbles start foaming.

For minutes 5 and 6, I performed a hatch-out test. Using a pipit, I measured out equal samples of a few hundred eggs and placed them in my new reactors at 80*F (26.67* C) for exactly 24 hours.

hot_and_steamy.jpg

I performed my usual extraction method... wink.gif ...first covering the sides of the reactor and placing a high intensity LED light near the base. This attracts the BBS and helps them to settle before extraction by siphon. Using this technique, I can pretty reliably collect around 95% of all hatchlings. Below are the results. All three photos are of the same two caps and give a clear indication of relative number and distribution.

hatch_out.jpg

Hmmm... wasn't seeing any real difference, so gave the reactors another look. There were slightly but noticeably more remaining BBS in the 5 minute reactor, but perhaps more telling, there were more unhatched eggs in the bottom of the 6 minute reactor.

Based on these results, I've come to the following recommendation.

Decapsulation:

  • Hydrate eggs in fresh water for 1 hour.
  • Equal parts fresh water and regular bleach for 5 minutes.


Results: (click for high-def)
decaped.jpg

Hope this helps! smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Whys
Holy...

indian-cow.jpg


I'm getting hatch-out the...

yinYang.gif


hysterical.gif




I'm reaching feeding density with a single pinch of brine shrimp eggs. wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Really? ONLY a pinch? I usually use a tablespoon or so per hatch of bbs eggs. Well, eggs floating around in a super saturated brine solution. I just ordered 8oz of eggs online so if it's only a pinch these eggs will last awhile.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

For reals, yo! The high def photo of the decapsulated eggs above is actually bathing in a small amount of brine water that is at saturation. I find it's easiest to just keep adding salt to a cup of RO water until it stops dissolving, then I add a pinch of baking soda to keep the pH stable. Once the eggs are fully drained, I put just enough brine water on them that they become somewhat fluid and find a level when the container is tilted. When I want to start a batch, I give the cup a swish, a tilt, and then dip my pinch spoon to get the same amount every time.

 

Before I started decaping my eggs, I needed at least 2 pinches of dry eggs to even start approaching feeding density. I say approach because not all of the BBS disappear between feedings. Thus the first few feedings allow their density to accumulate. With my newly decaped eggs, I only need a single spoon full. I did make a small adjustment to my kreisel which is also helping to retain density, so it's not like I've doubled my hatch-out, but it has clearly and noticeably improved by a significant amount.

 

A single pinch is all I need. smile.gif

 

Also, I'm getting full hatch-out by hour 18, instead of 24, and exceedingly few duds. I couldn't feel more confident about my decap and hatch process at this point.

 

dance2.gif

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Sweet, I have to start practicing hatching bbs again. Just had one sexy release the other night, another one today while I was trying to quarantine it and the last one is quarantined and gravid. Hopefully it won't release till the eggs arrive. If not I understand that I should expect them to release larvae every 20-30 days.

 

 

Just curious how many shrimp have you had settle so far?

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

Just curious how many shrimp have you had settle so far?

 

zero.jpg

 

It takes 26 days to reach settlement. Each day a few are lost, so the goal is to have one left by day 26. Thus far I've reached day 22. I took a video of it under the scope:

.

 

I have 6 actively breeding females, and keep them all in a small specialized tank by themselves. They all mate and release at different times, so I don't bother keeping track of the time between. Every fews days I find more larvae and toss them into the kreisel. If you want more specifics, look: here.

 

Incidentally, they prefer to release in the dark.

 

Oh, and don't worry. They can go a couple days without food. So hang on to them until the food arrives.

 

Also, if you haven't already, look at my previous posts regarding colonial hydroids: here.

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Yeah, I've checked out many threads on how to do it. They've revealed many things to me that helped like that previously I had all females and no males so I had to male order some.

 

While messing around with the female in her qt bottle she released so now I have a bunch of larave but no bbs yet. I should get some in on Wednesday so I'll hang on to them and hope I have some left.

 

I saw your posts on hydroids. My current setup is the same as one I saw in someone's thread. It's an upside down soda bottle with airline tubing that sit in the fuge in my sump. Its cap has been replaced with brine mesh so water changes are as easy as raising and lowering the bottle. I'm hoping this method prevents anything from entering unless it was attached to the female when I put her in.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

Cool. That's a nice simple setup. I hope it works out for you. And just so you know, it's widely believed hydroids often find their way in on undecapsulated brine shrimp eggs.

 

Have you started a thread? Link it! :)

Share this post


Link to post
jersey

There is great article on breeding sexy shrimp in this months Coral Magazine. It was probably mentioned already, but just in case it wasn't,

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

Woot! A couple of my larger females both released tonight. Now I have somewhere close to 400 larvae in the kreisel, all added in the last few days. I think this is gonna be my lucky brood. ;)

 

http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/reef_to_rainforest.aspx?eid=058f9bcf-d96a-43b2-aec2-92b1fce301f5

 

Coral Magazine Article. Found it available online so I figured I'd post it. Hopefully it's okay.

 

I haven't started a thread yet. I'm waiting for some success and a better camera than my phone.

 

Thanks for the link; that's an interesting article. Any chance you can find the previous edition containing the kreisel build?

Share this post


Link to post
nanoreefnate

This is a great project that you're working on and I love the comedic relief you put into all of you post with pictures and such. I especially enjoyed the use of the Zero fighter plane reference. ;) Keep up the good work! :D

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Whys,

 

When you open that link click the vertical tab on the left that says "Archive" and select "Nov/Dec 2012" page 95

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

When you open that link click the vertical tab on the left that says "Archive" and select "Nov/Dec 2012" page 95

 

Ah, thanks!

 

I guess I'm the only one that uses the 6 Gallon Winpak for the drum.

 

jug.jpg

 

It's polyethylene and a heck of a lot easier to work with than acrylic. Unlike the vast majority of nontoxic drum shaped containers available (ie: buckets), these aren't tapered on one end. Once cut, it rolls straight, as evidenced by my video.

 

 

I bought extras. :)

 

the_lords_bosom.jpg

 

This is a great project that you're working on and I love the comedic relief you put into all of you post with pictures and such. I especially enjoyed the use of the Zero fighter plane reference. ;) Keep up the good work! :D

 

Thank you for saying!

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Well whys I have to say you were right about the larvae being able to survive without food a few days. They were released Monday and I still see them wiggling around. I finally got eggs and decapsulated them, waiting for them to hatch now. Just thought I'd share that with you, I'm kind of surprised they are still alive, hopefully they hold on a little longer.

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Hey Whys, how do you tell if the larvae are dead? I've seen some floating at the top. I assumed they were trapped due to surface tension so I pour water in frequently. Should I assume any that are floating around in the current (w/o me pouring water in or completing wc) are still alive? I do see some twitch, but I have to watch for awhile to start noticing it. I don't usually see many on the bottom, but since I have mesh on the bottom I can't easily see down there. I see some pop up from the bottom, when I raise/lower the bottle to complete a wc and sort of assume it's because they all got sucked down when I raised the bottle.

 

Also how concerned should I be about not removing the dead ones. Again due to my setup I've assumed any pollution gets pulled out and broken down in my tank, so I don't worry about it. I thought about pouring out the floaters, but I'm not sure if they are trapped there, or are really dead.

 

Finally, UPDATES PLEASE

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

I was a little disappointed with my Babies Eating Babies video, so made another.

 

Babies Eating Babies 2

The Sequel

 

Now with...

more_gore.jpg

 

This video can be hard to watch, so here is an artistic dramatization depicting the horror.

 

violence_nudity_and_gore.jpg

 

The baby eaters are slender, forever hungry, and preying upon the pink masses. They tend to hang upside down, snatching babies with their claws, then holding them there while taking small bites.

 

Watch to the gruesome end to see the horned one. } :D

 

Hey Whys, how do you tell if the larvae are dead? I've seen some floating at the top. I assumed they were trapped due to surface tension so I pour water in frequently. Should I assume any that are floating around in the current (w/o me pouring water in or completing wc) are still alive? I do see some twitch, but I have to watch for awhile to start noticing it. I don't usually see many on the bottom, but since I have mesh on the bottom I can't easily see down there. I see some pop up from the bottom, when I raise/lower the bottle to complete a wc and sort of assume it's because they all got sucked down when I raised the bottle.

 

Also how concerned should I be about not removing the dead ones. Again due to my setup I've assumed any pollution gets pulled out and broken down in my tank, so I don't worry about it. I thought about pouring out the floaters, but I'm not sure if they are trapped there, or are really dead.

 

Finally, UPDATES PLEASE

I wish I could give you more definitive answers.

 

unmitigated_gore.jpg

 

I'm running a different system. So for me, dead larvae just kind of disappear and are eaten by the bio-cycle. But basically, if they're healthy, they should at least twitch when disturbed. I've noticed larvae sitting motionless on the surface at times, but more often they'll sit on the bottom. Not always, just sometimes. I used to worry more about it, but I've since come to the conclusion that they simply aren't hungry. In both cases, they eventually kick off and reenter the water column. And I seem to see the fewest "lazy" larvae right after I've added food. Kind of like they jump at the dinner bell.

 

But I could be wrong.

 

outrageous_gore.png

 

Whatever the case, I doubt the dead larvae pose much of a pollution threat when compared to the dead BBS and BBS molts. Again, not sure how much my particular system can tell you about that, but if your water changes are taking care of those, then it should take care of any dead larvae as well. I imagine their bodies break down pretty quickly.

 

See? Not very definitive. :]

 

gratuitous_gore.jpg

 

I can tell you this. It is typically the goal to keep the larvae in motion as much as possible so that they can eat as much as possible. There are various things that can help or hinder this goal. A point source light from above can help and light from the sides can hinder. In both cases, the larvae are drawn to it and end up either in the water column or on a surface, and they don't find food while on a surface.

 

Beyond that, I really can't say.

 

sensational_gore.jpg

 

Hope this helps. smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
steelcube

Wow that's awesome seeing them feed. Yeah, I think I need to change my setup so I just have a separate cyclindrical aquarium for the larvae. I have trouble observing them enough to come to any conclusions and it seems even that can be difficult. I was hoping for a miracle for my first hatch, but I guess I'll hunker down and try to replicate more precisely other successes. Unfortunately I think a kriesel it out of the question for my setup. Thanks for the help.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

Wow that's awesome seeing them feed. Yeah, I think I need to change my setup so I just have a separate cyclindrical aquarium for the larvae. I have trouble observing them enough to come to any conclusions and it seems even that can be difficult. I was hoping for a miracle for my first hatch, but I guess I'll hunker down and try to replicate more precisely other successes. Unfortunately I think a kriesel it out of the question for my setup. Thanks for the help.

To be honest, the only time I've seen that upside-down bottle system used for sexy shrimp, the person ultimately gave up on the project in disgust, without ever settling a sexy. I don't know if that design is based on a successful precursor or not, nor have I ever used it, but I do think it has promise.

 

For me, this project has been as much about experimenting with my own kreisel design, as it has been about settling a sexy for proof-of-concept. There are simpler designs that have been successful for sexy shrimp. I give Pj86's glass cylinder vase as an example. But that requires daily water changes and simply isn't appropriate for many other species of pelagic larvae. And some designs only work well because the larval cycle is short enough. Once I have my proof of concept, I'm moving on to uncharted waters. The larval cycle for BVN could potentially be very long. So my own design needs to be as robust as possible, and I continue to refine it as I go.

 

Incidentally, when it comes to the health of the larvae, not all hatchlings are created equal. I suspect under nourished females not only produce fewer, but also smaller young. I could be wrong about that, but one thing I believe I've noticed is that better nourished females produce more energetic young. Specifically, their predator avoidance is much more pronounced. By this I mean the way the larvae try to dart away from suction or siphon. My healthiest hatchlings can be hard to catch for transfer.

 

Which brings me to my next update! The 250-micron [500-micron] nylon-mesh was insufficient to prevent newly hatched Thor amboinensis larvae from escaping the trap. I guess direction of flow makes all the difference, because I get away with using 425-micron on my kreisel screen just fine. I probably lose a few larvae at the earliest stages as a result, but that's less significant than the clogging I would encounter if I were using a smaller micron. But in the case of the larvae trap on the overflow drain, the flow pushes them directly thru the screen head first. So I ordered some new nylon and will rebuild the trap using 132-micron [250-micron] mesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys

I need to make a correction. When I built my larva trap, I mistakenly grabbed the wrong micron mesh. I knew I had both 425 micron and 250 micron, and recognizing one set as the 425, I assumed the other was the 250. But as it turns out, I still had some 500 micron mesh I had completely forgotten, and that is what I ended up using. OOOPS!

 

So now I need to rebuild the trap with the 250 micron, as I had originally intended. Tho for other's information, the newly hatched larvae can fit thru 425 micron mesh when pushed or pulled thru head or tail first.

Share this post


Link to post
Whys



T-minus 8 days and counting.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...