Project S.M.M.O.A.T.G.

[Tentacles]

It's been a while, just thought I'd "bump" and see what all the people on here that don't like me have to say.

 

why do you continue trying to set sparks with people and then call them kids when youre 20 years old

[zachxlutz]

cause.

[Tentacles]

cause.

 

give us a call when youre old enough to drink little boy

[zachxlutz]

you gonna buy me a drink? aw, shucks... you're the best.

 

i'm old enough to drink, but i'm not sure how that relates to my tank!

[Tentacles]

you gonna buy me a drink? aw, shucks... you're the best.

 

i'm old enough to drink, but i'm not sure how that relates to my tank!

 

it relates to the fact that you like to go around picking on people for no reason other than the fact that you want to and call them kids when they are much older. also just thought id correct you on some missed spelling (you semmed to love that) from the thread you chose to disturb with needless insults, viscous and vicious are two different words with two different meanings.

 

about the tank then, is that crazy deep sandbed any shallower?

[zachxlutz]

yep. it's only about 2" deep and this tank won't be set-up too much longer. It will become a frag tank with three eggcrate racks, bare-bottom and about 6 lbs of live rock rubble. This tank will be transferred over into my 33 long.

[hitmanx]

Ticking time bombs is right! Now I just need to buy something that will live to eat this damned red hair algae.

 

Zachxlutz,

 

You seem very enthusiastic about marine ecology! I commend your interest in this fascinating hobby.

 

What I don’t understand is why you keep getting livestock without properly researching their exact needs and compatibility within your ecosystem. It seems that you are constantly adding new creatures without a thought to what they really need.

 

Patience is virtue… this is the most important thing in marine ecology. And as a expert once said "Only bad things happen quickly in a reef aquarium; good things happen slowly" - M. Paletta.

When we maintain an aquarium, we are in a sense playing god. You must be a benevolent keeper and not just an observer. Just because it looks cool, doesn’t mean that we can just play around with its life and the life of the entire tank ecosystem.

 

There are so many places that we can find credible information on the internet or even books at LFS’s or libraries. We all have no excuse. It is available to us, so we should use it.

 

Just in case you are not aware of the plethora of resources at our fingertips, here are some good examples, by no means comprehensive:

 

http://saltaquarium.about.com/ (use the menu on the left to navigate all the info)

 

http://marinebio.org/ (general info on marine ecology)

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/breeder.htm (list of ethically sourced fish)

 

http://melevsreef.com/id/ (some pretty pictures for identification)

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/ (even Dr Fosters & Smith has solid info on each of it’s livestock + a really good compatibility chart)

 

http://www.zoaid.com/ (I think you already have this one)

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php (solid advice for critical water parameters)

 

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/ (another forum)

 

 

I’m bored of listing now, so you can find the rest… My best suggestion is still to ask specific questions to the experts in specific forums topics. You will not get sound advice here in your “look at my tank thread”. The experts that can REALLY answer your questions are often not interested in “starter tanks” (maybe they are just snobby or something).

 

Good luck! Learn! Enjoy!

 

 

ps - i am a beginner too, but I am very mindful of how things fit together... just my 2 cents...

[paulnsimon]

Great links! You've handed out so much homework, professor!

 

I'm sitting here staring at my empty tank, curious how it will unfold. Having the opportunity to read through the forums sure helps create a visual that was further fromt he fingertips when I was starting out in the hobby. This'll be my second try at saltwater -- and I must add that the more I know, the more I realize how much I don't know!!

 

Crazy....

 

Now, Zach -- let's see that fts!! And those shrimp eggs!!

[zachxlutz]

What I don’t understand is why you keep getting livestock without properly researching their exact needs and compatibility within your ecosystem. It seems that you are constantly adding new creatures without a thought to what they really need.

 

What have I purchased without adequately researching? I have had three deaths in my tank.

 

1. The sixline wrasse never took to eating prepared foods well.

2. The hammer coral was a no-go from the beginning. Never looked good.

3. The seahare just didn't make it. What was I to do?

 

I appreciate you putting all that info on my thread, but it came as almost an insult. I thoroughly research everything that goes into my tank. I spend hours reading my multiple books and checking websites before I add any livestock to my tank.

[Tentacles]

i think the guy was just trying to help^

 

what kind of hermits and snails do you have in the tank, or plan on having after the move

[zachxlutz]

Tentacles, I have about 6-7 red/blue leg hermits, 2 margarita snails and 6-7 nassarius snails. I'm actually going out right now to get a turbo snail and maybe some astrae and cerith. I'm sick and tired of my algae problem.

[SaVeThEeELs]

tubros will work wonders on green slime algea, and green hair algea.....

 

but nothing for your pompus-ness.......

 

in my honest opinion, you just threw everything into the tank.....

you made the statement...i had no cycle...

bs dude...

 

every tank is a constant cycle of many things.......not just nitrates and ammonia....

even the o2 in the tank has a cycle....

 

so you did just throw everything in there didnt you??? a compulsive buyer??

 

thats why you have a million pounds of sand in the first set of shots....

 

-you got a fuge right?? havent been able to out compeat your mac??

[zachxlutz]

SaVeThEeELs,

 

Thanks for the great info, friend!!!

 

I'm not even going to take the time to tell you how wrong you are.

 

Thanks!

[SaVeThEeELs]

SaVeThEeELs,

 

Thanks for the great info, friend!!!

 

I'm not even going to take the time to tell you how wrong you are.

 

Thanks!

 

no prob! just another amature marine biologist like yourself....

 

every tank is a constant cycle of many things.......not just nitrates and ammonia....

even the o2 in the tank has a cycle....

 

yeah dude, i know im right dont make me bust out paper work, thats alot of text i can drop on your threads............this is how the earth works....the world itself cycles around the sun.....

 

its all cycles.....feeding your animals is part of a cycle......lighting cycle.....death...

 

thats why you are "cycling" (your outbreak)now.....cuz you just threw everthing in there......i didnt read anything about you waiting a month to put it together....

 

just the new corals you bought....and deaths.....

 

not bustin you out dude, just dont be so mean......

 

if your new to the hobby, no matter how much you may know, there is much that you dont.....obviously

 

thats why were here, to learn more, not to make people feel stupid...

i dont even get cyno "cycles" anymore....just neon green slime algea....

my turbos love that stuff.....

 

but i "cycled" for a month, meaning i let it build up a strong bacteria foundation, along w/ a good supply of compeating macro algea to take in all excess nutrients in the system before they built up to problem levels which could stimulate unwanted pest diatoms and slime algea....

 

i still dont keep corals, and ive been at it only 3 years.....

 

 

i got mad scientific sites if you need to build a data base for creature ID and info if you want it.....phat pictures.....spectrum analysis...umm....i dunno name it and ill find it....

[zachxlutz]

go away. you are truly an annoyance.

[hitmanx]

What have I purchased without adequately researching? I have had three deaths in my tank.

 

1. The sixline wrasse never took to eating prepared foods well.

2. The hammer coral was a no-go from the beginning. Never looked good.

3. The seahare just didn't make it. What was I to do?

 

I appreciate you putting all that info on my thread, but it came as almost an insult. I thoroughly research everything that goes into my tank. I spend hours reading my multiple books and checking websites before I add any livestock to my tank.

 

I don't know... it seem apparent that you are just slamming everything that fits your fancy into what you want it to be like...

 

Like i said, your enthusiasm is commendable, but you have to think about the lives of your fishes and inverts... it's just not fair to them if you rush things and screw up... it just your $$$, but it's their lives! And you really are just being stubborn, learning the hard way at every turn.

 

First to answer your questions: (my comments do not consider what is still alive and their survival)

 

1. generally a sixline wrasse is not supposed to be housed in a smaller than 20-30 gal tank. It is semi agressive and placing most fish species in confined spaces will bring out their aggressiveness even more. They often do not fare well in tank without ample hiding places (aka lots of rock), and will eat all kinds of inverts like snails and shrimp.

 

2. The easiest way to ensure the survivability of a tank creature (besides offering a stable and well established tank) is to thoroughly research how to pick a healthly specimen in the first place. There are many sources for this, and you can often just find this info on the best care description of your specific creature. You are a beginner (like me), but take the lessons learned from others and don't waste your time on ######ty livestock.

 

3. "The seahare just didn't make it"? Of course it didn't... you didn't know how to take care of it. Plain and simple. It's not that you don't have the capacity to learn how to take care of it, you just didn't check the details of its care before you threw it in your tank. Why would you want to endanger your other tank inhabitants with the threat of this creature? Probably because the 16 yr old kid a the LFS didn't know ###### about it and you bought it believing his "word". As you may know because you did ample research before you bought the Sea hare that they mainly subsist on macro algae and seaweed/kelp and will eat hair algae if it is there. But what happens when your hair algae is all eaten, then what do you feed it? Do you have caulerpa or some kind of supplemental food? Suggestions for keepers are for experts only (whatever that means) as they are hard to manage and stay alive. Sea creatures are not tools or equipment. They are living creatures. Of course it died... you killed it. (http://www.seaslugforum.net/)

 

 

You may have researched information, but from where? do you really think that a beginner on a web forum knows what he's talking about? A lot of information on these forums is COMPLETELY contradictory... most new people just don't know what they are talking about... but of course this is okay, as we all have to start somewhere!

 

What I'm saying is for the people who think they know what they're talking about but don't - Just don't give authoritative statements, only anecdotal information pertaining to your experiences... that way it leaves information to be processed with less ambiguity. I'm not even saying that I know what I'm talking about. I'm just trying to use common sense to show you what experts have seen first hand. Lets learn from them. It's save us time and money!

 

By the way, your books are probably not based on facts anymore, as the science behind this hobby is very new and always changing. In my opinion this hobby is too fluid (no pun intended) to be placed in a "cut and dry" form (also no pun intended). They are a waste of money in my opinion.

 

So i ask of you, what sources have you gotten your information from?

 

I am very interested in where your information regarding the cycling process of your marine aquarium was attained. What exactly makes you think that a cycle does or does not happen, or that it isn't constantly happening in many facets of your tank ecosystem?

 

As a beginner myself, I am also plagued with sifting through endless garbage statements by people with good intentions but no ounce of good knowledge, so I understand your plight.

 

Here is some specific info on cycling.

 

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrog.../a/aa073199.htm

 

You will indeed find that what the other forum members have been telling you is in fact true (or some version of truthieness). To equate a "cycle" to the simple progression of amonia and NO3 and NO4 is B*&@ S*%#! It's some much more complicated than that. Like everything in life, there are so many variables to consider and more than meets the eye. Organic and In-organic nutrient cycles are not confined to these 3 compounds. Many more in fact have a lot of importance in your tank. These are the fundamental basics of Ecology and environmental chemistry , especially in such a small version of real life.

 

 

I'm not making any of this stuff up. It's all available to you if you are willing to look for it.

 

I wish you happy times and successful and stable marine ecosystems!

 

 

As an aside:

 

What kind of water do you use for your system?

 

Your source can often be the cause for many problems such as algae infestations.

[SaVeThEeELs]

fishbase.org

random news about the ocean being trashed....

 

dive site.....may id many pacific reef corals and animals...

gotta love gps....

 

http://decapoda.free.fr/fiche.php?sp=114

 

happy reading !

[bdare]

Don't listen to those guys that are bashing you... Just know it alls looking for a pedistal.

 

For your algae problems....

1) Are you using RO/DI water? If not this could be the problem.

2) Try reducing your lighting period. 8 hours of daylight should be plenty.

3) How much are you feeding? Fish really don't need as much food as you may think. Be sure to release the food slowly. You don't any food to have a chance of hitting the bottom.

4) What are your water params? I don't think I've seen these posted yet... If you have nitrates > 10 this could be the cause of your algae. How about Phosphate? Are you testing for these?

5) What test kits are you using? I HIGHLY reccomend Salifert! The cheap ones just aren't reliable or as accurate.

 

Good luck...

[zachxlutz]

Don't listen to those guys that are bashing you... Just know it alls looking for a pedistal.

 

For your algae problems....

1) Are you using RO/DI water? If not this could be the problem.

2) Try reducing your lighting period. 8 hours of daylight should be plenty.

3) How much are you feeding? Fish really don't need as much food as you may think. Be sure to release the food slowly. You don't any food to have a chance of hitting the bottom.

4) What are your water params? I don't think I've seen these posted yet... If you have nitrates > 10 this could be the cause of your algae. How about Phosphate? Are you testing for these?

5) What test kits are you using? I HIGHLY reccomend Salifert! The cheap ones just aren't reliable or as accurate.

 

Good luck...

 

Thanks for a post actually providing something... Those "know-it alls" have NO idea how much effort and research I put into this hobby. If it weren't for people like you and several others on here, I wouldn't even get on this forum anymore.

 

1. I am using distilled crystal water from wal-mart. Think I should switch over to RO/DI?

2. The lighting idea makes me wonder... I think I have read that red hair algae doesn't use much light because the red spectrum of chlorophyll(?) picks up more usable light? Any ideas? I will cut my lighting back though, couldn't hurt to try it.

3. I feed once every day or two, but when I do I have been feeding kind of heavily. I just picked up some frozen enriched mysis shrimp and will be feeding with those from here on out because I feel the fish/coral get more of them as opposed to the flakes.

4. I'll post parameters up this afternoon when I get home. I don't have a phosphate test kit, but I do run a poly-filter from time to time which is supposed to remove phosphates.

5. I use an American Pharmaceuticals test kit consisting of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH. I'm going to pick up phosphate, calcium and alkalinity test kits though... I should look for salifert?

 

Again, thanks a ton for the quality information.

[bdare]

I'm glad I can help. I'm only returning the favor I've recived after many years in this hobby.

 

1) I really can't tell you weather you should switch over to RO/DI or not. The only real way to find out is to test the watter you pickup at Wal-Mart. If you have a TDS (total disolved solids) meter you can check those, but definitely also check nitrates and phosphates.

 

2) To be honest, I really don't know which algaes need light and which ones don't. I can however tell you whenever I've had algae problems I've looked at how much light I was providing as a solution. There are a lot of people who provide 12 hours of daylight without problems, but I like to only have them on 7-8 hours.

 

3) Like I said... You can feed your fish 5 times a day if you want. Just make sure during each feeding you release the food s-l-o-w-l-y into the tank and don't over feed the fish. You can also target feed your corals with a turkey baster.

 

4) I'm curious to see your test results...

 

5) DEFINITELY go with Salifert. I started with sub-par test kits in the beginning. I saw other people posting "go with good kits" and thought "can they really be that much better?" The answer is "YES". I couldn't be happier since I upgraded. I know it's a lot out of pocket in the beginning, but well worth it in the end when your inhabitants are happier.

 

Since you do have LPS corals in your tank you really should have been testing for Ca and Alk a long time ago.

 

If you can spring for Salifert for you new test kits that would be good. Then just gradually replace your old ones with Salifert. I would replace them in this order:

- Nitrate - Important test for the health of corals.

- Ph - You can get this second because your Alk will tell you something about the buffering ability of your tank. The higher the Alk the better your buffering ablity.

- Nitrite / Amonia - You may or may not need to replace these. Since your tank has already cycled you problably won't need to test for these too often. Personally, I replaced Nitrite, but never did replace Amonia...

 

If you ever have questions about Salifert kits they have a Sponsor Forum on RC. VERY HELPFUL.

 

I hope this helps...

[Deleted User 7]

Hey! Have enjoyed following this thread! Yah know, I had the same Hammer coral problem you had with your first frag. "Just closed up and vomitted itself back out", no idea what happens. And of course, whenever you hit a speed bump out here there are about 30 critics and one person actually helping out. It's called REACTION-FORMATION, they are all just speaking out against you to hide thier own downfalls in aquarium keeping. otherwise they'd be real keen on helping you. I do believe this is a forum people, a place for helping and not boosting ego.

 

Now that I'm done giving a psychology lecture to all of those crazies, I really like your tank!!! I think you have a really nice setup and have looked at it for ideas on several occasions. I have a similar tank (10 gallon) in my dorm room. You should check out the thread, "10 gallon college reef tank (In closet)" and give your opinions, they would be much valued. Anywho, love the tank and will enjoy seeing it grow!

 

-Eben

 

P.S. I was also wondering were you got your signiture banner thingy.

[zachxlutz]

P.S. I was also wondering were you got your signiture banner thingy.

 

Thanks for the positive comments Dr. Daggett! I'll check out your thread in a few! I made my signature image in photoshop a while back. If you have some high-res images of you tank, I might be able to cook one up for you... for a frag... haha. PM me and I'll make you one on the house.

 

I'm glad I can help. I'm only returning the favor I've recived after many years in this hobby.

 

Thanks again! I'll post up my "findings" tonight.

[mybuickskill6979]

you guys both said it may cause problems... are you referring to problems with nitrates? or something else?

 

 

http://www.miniaturereef.com/Deep%20Sand%20Beds.htm

 

read up. but basically the bad stuff is down usually towards the bottom of the DSB so stirring up of the toxins is usually never achieved. and can be stopped with a little syphoning of the top every water change or so!!

 

oh yeah and why does everybody trip on DSB's mother nature has one? and none of her fish are dead yet? talk about the amount of toxic stuff she has built up under there in the last millions of years!!

[bdare]

http://www.miniaturereef.com/Deep%20Sand%20Beds.htm

 

read up. but basically the bad stuff is down usually towards the bottom of the DSB so stirring up of the toxins is usually never achieved. and can be stopped with a little syphoning of the top every water change or so!!

 

oh yeah and why does everybody trip on DSB's mother nature has one? and none of her fish are dead yet? talk about the amount of toxic stuff she has built up under there in the last millions of years!!

MUCH more water to dilute the bad gasses etc which are released...

[hitmanx]

... And of course, whenever you hit a speed bump out here there are about 30 critics and one person actually helping out. It's called REACTION-FORMATION, they are all just speaking out against you to hide thier own downfalls in aquarium keeping. otherwise they'd be real keen on helping you. I do believe this is a forum people, a place for helping and not boosting ego.

 

I don't think ego really has anything to do with it. I really don't have any downfalls in aquarium keeping as i haven't started yet. I'm doing the needed research to take on a very complicated hobby! I don't want to make mistakes and learn as I go... thats just stupid when $$$ and lives are at stake. Why not use other peoples mistakes to learn from?

 

I want to help everybody. I'm trying to change this hobby to a more holistic approach. I've tried to give zach praise but we all need to evaluate why we do this and to put the lives of the creatures ahead of our own ego.

 

The again, maybe what I'm saying is just falling on deaf ears...

 

Zach does seem incapable to take criticisms and the acknowledgment of real facts. He 's seems too quick to attack the integrity of others that are sharing their experiences. Then will say something like "Thanks to the people who help"...

 

I'm not sure why I even talking about this. I will never know him, neither would I want to know anyone so impatient, aggressive and foolhardy. Maybe it's an American thing... (flame on!)