Green Mandarin in a 10?

[Blind Tree Frog]

Stupid question perhaps, but how well do Green Manderin's do in the smaller tanks? Live Aquaria claims 30+, but I'm curious how well a 10 or a 20 would work.

[offsprg01]

http://nano-reef.com/forums/showthread.php...&threadid=53784

 

read that. that should give you an idea of what it takes to care for a fish like this. and then do a search using the search button at the top of the page.

[DitchPlains]

I have a 2.5g can I put a tang in there?

How about two tangs and a ray?

too small?

Just curious...

 

seriously,

lol

[TheCheat]

don't be an ass, ditch. i think the guy's question was legit. it's not like he just became a member today and thought he would have some fun at our expense. he just probably needs to be steered away from making the mistake of putting that fish in a tank that small.

 

later,

~B

[Blind Tree Frog]

course, earlier threads seem to imply that they can do fine in such smaller tanks (perhaps not the 10 though)

[lgreen]

Blind Tree Frog,

 

Some people on this site have been able to keep mandarins in a tank around your size (I've seen a lot in 12g tanks).

 

To answer your question:

 

Basically I would say yes it is possible to keep a mandarin in a 10g, but there is a lot to keep in mind:

 

1. You need to make sure the mandarin you purchase is healthy, and eating some type of food which you have access to, such as brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, marine cuisin, etc. (Make the LFS show you that it is eating, and buy what they are feeding it)

2. You should probably plan on feeding it 1-3 times per day depending on how accepting of your food it is.

3. YOu should not consider a mandarin until your tank is very stable. I.e, not something that should be purchased by someone new, or for a new tank. Partly for the food source, but also to make sure any pH, or any other issues are well stabilized.

4. You also need to be very disciplined in tank mantiance, ie. watching nutrient levels, (which may increase quite a bit if you have to feed multiple times per day), doing good water changes, to keep the tank clean.

5. Pick tank mates A) that will not be aggressive, as far as feeding, and eat all the food, so the mandarin starves B )And keep in mind it is a ten gallon, so don't overstock (just a few small fish is plenty!!) Also keep in mind corals count as bio load too.

 

6. Most Importantly: Stay on top of things, and don't get lazy.

 

It is possible, but just make sure and do your research and know what you are doing before you burst out and spend $20 bucks on a fish.

 

It also might be helpful to try a scooter blenny first, to kind of get use to some of the behaviors and habits of the "dragonet" family of fish, since they are a little cheaper, and a little less picky.

 

 

good luck

 

lg

[lgreen]

also spend some time researching feeding techniques (i.e. how to get the food to the fish)

[patio]

i had one in my 12 g until it was murdered my my stupid damsel!

[DitchPlains]

don't be an ass, ditch. i think the guy's question was legit.

 

The only ass here is you B....lol

Next time I'll think before I speak about a subject that has been answered by atleast 15 threads on this site alone. Mandarians require huge rock work, and even those that are able to accept food don't survive in anything under a 75g.

A simple search on his part could have given this answer, now I am wondering why I answered, oh yeah to provide a snide comment to what seems and endless parade of redundant questions, but now I'm debating with you...isn't life grand..lol Ok time for my Zoloft and lithium before heading off to eternal slumber....

 

Makes mental note...reply to stupid questions and get stupid repsponses too.

 

 

 

 

 

:x zzz

[lgreen]

"Mandarians require huge rock work, and even those that are able to accept food don't survive in anything under a 75g. "

 

I completely disagree with that statement.

 

That seems to be the mandarin stereotype, but it is not always the case.

 

The whole "need big tank, with lots of rock work" is more of a scare tactic, to emphasize how delicate these fish are and how one must really put some care into keeping one.

 

Many fish biologist, and reef specialist, such as Scott Michael, suggest that a 20 gallon tank would be addequate for housing a mandarin. I agree, and would extend that to a 10 gallon tank, as long as there is a good supply of food, and quality rock in a fair quantity. The food and water quality is the issue, more than the size of the tank. If you can artificially supply the diet, or artificially supply the natural diet, then a 10 gallon would be fine.

 

Ideally I do agree that this fish would probably be better suited for a tank of larger size, but it is possible to keep one in a smaller tank.

 

I have seen many kept alive and thriving in tanks ranging in many sizes.

 

 

 

I think I will get one for my 12 gallon too infact, then we will find out.

 

 

 

[lgreen]

getting nasty with people isn't going to help anyone!

[TheCheat]

That's the thing, Igreen ... Ditch was never here to help in the first place. Maybe we'll get lucky and he wont return from his drug-induced "eternal slumber."

You, however, gave some really good info to Blind Tree Frog, though. It was good of you to take the time to do that. I'm sure he appreciates it. Well played.

 

Later,

~B

[DitchPlains]

I completely disagree with that statement.

 

Your kidding right? Your disagreeing with years of Aquarists experiences, breeders, as well as people in the buisness of raising and selling Mandarins? I guess in the words of Joe Pesci "Those must be miracle grits on your stove"

 

The fact is LGreen I have been joking on this thread entirely because quite frankly, its a silly thread. The facts are obvious in the this case, the few and far between cases where a mandarin is being hand fed and kept surivivng in a small tank are far and few between, but I guess by your estimation that must be a good ratio if say more then 1/2 don't survive. You wouldn't last ten minutes breeding fish if that was your surviability rate you went for. Mandarins require large tanks for pods, and for rock cover period, that is their habitat. Its not as you say

The whole "need big tank, with lots of rock work" is more of a scare tactic

 

By the way, and maybe it escaped your attention our thread poster, I'll call him "troll boy" hasn't responded yet either...go figure, and probably won't til now that I said that lol.....I digress.

 

Continue on your illadvised rant. Scott Michaels, sadly I do not of his theories on aquaria, but I guarantee you if you put this same thread in the forum with Anthony Calfo over at RC my opinion will be supported whole heartedly.

 

Well goodluck with your advise here, I have to stop, and your right, I retort to my previous comments. I always help people, and thats not what this thread is about, because plain and simple its dumb, and I feel dumb for replying. Good luck.

[billy-boy]

Ouch!

 

Considering that LiveAquaria has some really twisted opinions, I don't see anything wrong with asking a question here about there recommended tank size.

 

After all, he didn't *buy* the fish first then ask, he's doing his research ahead of time. That's what we want people to do, isn't it?

 

Nothing wrong with the question IMO.

 

 

Remember: "Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one!"

[billy-boy]

And oh yeah - ditch - it obviously escaped YOUR attention that the thread poster, Blind Tree Frog, has replied.... see 4-4-05 at 4:28pm.

[lgreen]

I still think your partly wrong and making it seem like it is more difficult than it really is.

 

A lot of the people on this site who claim to be "advanced aquarist" have this its my way or no way attitude.

 

Obviously there are people on this site, and in the real world who have kept these fish in tanks smaller than 70g

 

so you really can't generalize by saying NO mandarin will survive unless the tank is 70g. that is the biggest bs i've ever heard

 

you are intitled to you opinion, but you can't say mine is wrong, because i have years of experience that would favor my argument.

 

quit dogging newbies for good questions though. maybe he didn't want to sift through pages and pages of people having this same stupid argument.

 

i'm sure he appriciates you flaming his thread and being a jerk.

[lgreen]

blind tree frog:

 

there is only one way to find out! If you feel up to it, then go for it.

[Blind Tree Frog]

By the way, and maybe it escaped your attention our thread poster, I'll call him "troll boy" hasn't responded yet either...go figure, and probably won't til now that I said that lol.....I digress.

To reply to this poster, let's call him "ass hole", I've been busy over the last (check's last post) 24 hours and don't sit on this board all day. Go sit on your thumbs and rotate. (apologies now to the admin that will surely complain about my statement).

 

Thanks for the info from everyone else. More or less just reenforced what I had been seeing elsewhere.

 

Regarding search, while I was doing that anyhow, sifting through 60 threads of "lookie at my fish" to find the 2 with actual info is rarely fun

[offsprg01]

Originally posted by Blind Tree Frog

Regarding search, while I was doing that anyhow, sifting through 60 threads of "lookie at my fish" to find the 2 with actual info is rarely fun

 

nope but that's what responsible reefers will do. and just so yo uknow. i was able to get mine to eat frozen food. but i'm probably going to return him tomorrow. my nitrates have risen to un acceptable levels. (26ppm)

[DitchPlains]

there is only one way to find out! If you feel up to it, then go for it.

 

great thoughts!!

from Jackass

 

 

 

To reply to this poster, let's call him "ass hole"

 

Nods...in this case, I was to you, my apologies, honestly thought you were kidding with your question so I replied with a joke back. Sorry bout that one.

 

quit dogging newbies for good questions though. maybe he didn't want to sift through pages and pages of people having this same stupid argument.i'm sure he appriciates you flaming his thread and being a jerk.

 

 

and to my fav posterboy let's call him "B" for "*****"

 

Your first words to me were

 

don't be an ass, ditch.

 

Just a note I didn't swing first on this one, was a joke, get a sense of humour, it won't hurt you B! lol

 

Keep your motto that its just a myth on Mandarins, with little or no hobby experience with these fish, and act like you do. I have some good friends who keep two mated pairs of these fish in there 120g aquariums, and having seen first hand how quickly they can decimate a pod population it seems quite obvious to me, and to most aquarist, that true it is "possible" to keep a Mandarin "surviving in a small tank, but wouldnt it be better to have him thriving in a larger tank? That's all I am saying. Our poster is looking to put one in a 10 or 20g. This size tank in time unless his particular Mandarin is hand fed will starve or live a very subsistance life, in a small enviroment. I just think that's bad aquaria practice, sorry to #### on your parade, but thats what the website is for opinions. Someone has to be the pragmatist here,albeit with a dodgy sense of humor. Good luck with your fish selection Blind Tree. I would suggest asking people at RC who have kept these fishes to get a better idea on their habitat.

[lgreen]

this needs to end now, unless you're going to help someone, don't post.

 

even if you disagree, don't start a fight with everyone.

 

you joking = everyone thinking your a jerk

 

not everything happens one way or your way, my method works too, and you can't prove me wrong

 

i dont think you have any base to assume my level of experience--but hey, thanks for playing.

[Blind Tree Frog]

Nods...in this case, I was to you, my apologies, honestly thought you were kidding with your question so I replied with a joke back. Sorry bout that one.

Is all good then. The original post was becuase I figured it would be a quick yes/no answer and searching would fill in the blanks later.

 

I hold no ill will towards you.

[offsprg01]

yea happy hugs all around. lol.

[akayak65]

My soap box after being in the marine hobby for a long time...

 

It's important to promote "responsible" fish and reef keeping on these boards. Can a mandarin be kept in a 10 gallon tank? Sure! Is it responsible? Probably not. Many people get into this hobby because they are in their LFS and see how "pretty" a marine tank is with their incredible colors and diversity. Many of these people don't care about or understand the importance of the worlds reef systems nor do they care. They just want that pretty fish.

 

If the mandarin doesn't eat frozen food one would be left with the option of feeding live food. Continually trying to provide live food can be very inconvenient and costly. It would be very difficult to develop a habitat in a 10 gallon tank that would be conducive for pods and to maintain their culture. Unless of course you had a larger sump/refugium or other means of pod culture that generated massive quantities of pods.

 

Go to www.wetwebmedia.com and do a search on mandarin mortality. They did a poll some time ago on readers mandys and the mortality rate on these fish is very large in smaller tanks under 75 gallons. They also did a poll on foods offered and foods that were readily taken. Not a lot of success with "dead" food stuff.

 

I realize that a lot can be misread into a written post. But, by merely suggesting to a newbie (or not a newbie) that a scooter blenny might be a better option than a mandy because they are "a little less picky" is difficult to digest. If a scooter doesn't eat dead food, it too will meet it's demise in a small tank. And by suggesting that a scooter might be a better choice because they are a "little cheaper" might imply that losing a scooter is OK because there was less of a financial investment. That is not responsible info to a newbie. We can't support the collection and unneccessary deaths of our oceans "treasures".

 

By having a reef tank in my office and being a responsible diver and caring about our reef systems, I perhaps am the biggest hypocrite. However, my two clown fish are tank raised, my rock is either tufa, aqaucultured in Florida, and the rest of my rock and my coral beauty was given to me by someone who discovered that a 90 gallon tank was not easily move multiple times and was too expensive to change his lights. All of my corals are frags or came with the donated rock. So...I try to be as responsible as I can.

 

And I would encourage anyone to do searches on your topic both here, wetwebmedia and reef central because most of our questions have already been answered. Although it is not "fun" to take the time to read lots of posts, its amazing what one can learn with about topics that may come up. If one can't take the time to scroll through these forums to learn about this hobby, then get a book on the hobby. Taking a shotgun approach to reefing will bite you in the butt.

 

Calfo, Fenner, Pro, et al. are some of the top experts in the world on our hobby. Read their thoughts on mandarin keeping and if you choose to get a mandy for a small tank and go against their responsible and expert advice just make sure to give the mandy up if it doesn't eat dead food before it dies.

 

Alan

[lgreen]

I realize that a lot can be misread into a written post. But, by merely suggesting to a newbie (or not a newbie) that a scooter blenny might be a better option than a mandy because they are "a little less picky" is difficult to digest. If a scooter doesn't eat dead food, it too will meet it's demise in a small tank. And by suggesting that a scooter might be a better choice because they are a "little cheaper" might imply that losing a scooter is OK because there was less of a financial investment. That is not responsible info to a newbie. We can't support the collection and unneccessary deaths of our oceans "treasures".

 

"that a scooter blenny might be a better option than a mandy because they are "a little less picky" is difficult to digest."

 

In my experience, scooters are far less picky then mandarins.

 

"If a scooter doesn't eat dead food, it too will meet it's demise in a small tank."

 

I too have seen many of these successfully kept in small tanks.

 

"And by suggesting that a scooter might be a better choice because they are a "little cheaper" might imply that losing a scooter is OK because there was less of a financial investment."

 

That was not at all the point! The point was try something similar so you understand what you are getting into---this was based on my statement about scooters not being as difficult to feed. It has nothing to do with the financial side of it. Regardless of the ethics, I think anyone would probably rather have a 10 dollar fish die rather than a 30-40 dollar fish. This isn't suggesting that either are disposable though.

 

"We can't support the collection and unneccessary deaths of our oceans "treasures"

 

By putting any living thing from the ocean in a glass box in our house we are supporting that. Do you have any idea the number of fish that die just from the stress of transport. There are a significant amount of fish that die before they get to the distributor, and a number that die before they get to retail. And additionally a number that die after they get to our homes.

 

That is exactly my point though. You can't just tell a newbie that you can't have mandarins, or that they have to be in a 70 gallon tank. You have to tell them why, and if it is possible to replicate the conditions of a 70 gallon, (which we are primarily talking about food here), in a ten gallon, then it will work.

 

The only issue of responsibility here is making sure the mandarin gets the food it needs. I'm sure a mandarin is not truly happy in a 70 gallon, 90 gallon, or 12 gallon. If we want to be responsible reef keepers, then we should just take pictures and hang them on the wall and never take any life from the sea.

 

The responsibility comes from the owner to take care of the organism. If a mandarin can be properly cared for in a 10, then what is wrong with that. Perhaps in general they would be better suited in a larger tank.