[Warning] Crystal Sea Salt Is Horrid

[flaunt]

ok well i'm not sure what MDP's post proves other than that some people enjoy giving out petty insults against those who question their word about supposed facts they present, and that he is capable of regugitating marketing information from a company's website in some weird attempt to legitimize his claims that that company is the best at producing a product.

 

THIS

http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/Arti...e_Aquarist.html

 

is the only thing I've found online thus far that *appears* to be an independant review of Aquacraft's claims about these different salts. This review neither totally supports it or totally demolishes it, but raises some obvious questions, some of which have already been raised here by "those that wake up each morning to simply defend their position of total weakness..."

 

sorry if it bothers you to have your judgement questioned by people who don't even know who the f&*k you are; deal with it. X)

[tinyreef]

i like my coralife salt. they give free t-shirts!

[gobies]

>>Also...is the entire text of the "S-15 Report" on the Aquacraft site in one piece/place?

 

>{Dave gives links}

 

I must've read those pages three times each. If those are the places with the S-15 Report text, then my question is answered: the entire text of the report is NOT on their site in one piece.

 

The reason I am looking for the entire text: to determine if the rating system is part of the original S-15 Report. From reading http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html, it seems that the rating system -- which, btw, is quite vague, containing quantifiers like "similar", "proper", and "low" -- is from Aquacraft.

 

Here's one: "7) Be low in metals. Excessive amounts of metals can be devastating to closed marine fish or reef aquariums. Low in metals. Score +5"

Why then, does their top-of-the-line salt score 100 (perfect) when it has three times as much copper as NSW?!?

 

Also... I just searched for "Global Scientific Publications" on Google. The only results of that company are the mentions on the Aquacraft website and in the review that Flaunt mentioned. So I searched the Thomas Register. NOTHING: "Products/Services Found: 0

Company Names Found: 0

Brand Names Found: 0"

I then searched Thomas Register for "global publications", "scientific publications", and "global scientific". Again, I came up with no companies likely to pay for such a study. The closest name match, "Globe Scientific", is a manufacturer of plastic labware. I would like to see some evidence that "Global Scientific Publications" is an independent company.

 

>[they also list] the fall-out and Corporate wars resulting from the results of the report.

In which they include the following: "7) Hans Weigant of hW Marinemix® passed away." It almost sounds like they're claiming the guy had a coronary or whatever because of the S-15 Report....

[Dave ESPI]

Originally posted by Dave ESPI

the address: Anresco Inc (19)

1370 Van Dyke Av  (click for map)

San Francisco, CA 94124

(415) 822-1100  

dauh.  

X)

Im not defending nor pretending... I too was as I said, skeptical.

MDP IS the owner of Aquacraft. Dont give him sh*t, hee's likely to shove it in yer face wayyyy harder than I ever could... cut him a break...... sheesh... I AGREEE 100 % that it does look hokiey...... BUT the truth of the matter is that his salt IS good. I wouldn't endorse a product that I didnt personaly test out or use.....

I think my reputation as a badd ass reefer will allow me to step out on a limb and say .....

"Whats this ? SHUT UP AND TRY IT" .......HEY MIKEY ! HE LIKES IT ! LIFE cerieal comercial Circa 1970... and its still around. MUST be something good about it.

MDP ? comment?

[MDPinUSA]

Looks like I woke up a few individuals. Sadly only a few are capable of understand what was offered.

 

In my last posting I offered information as to what mixing equipment is utilized by most marine salt manufacturers. The hostile replies skipped over this accurate information. The few that understood already know which marine salts perform significantly better than others.

 

Key information was also offered regarding the selection of ingredients employed by Aqua Craft. There is a definate difference using individually extracted major components vs. those that are mined.

 

Boron is not added to any Aqua Craft, Inc. marine salts. Boron was used decades ago as a pH buffer. There are other methods to pH buffering without any possible negative effects of B.

 

Check www.aquacraft.net for information on pH, buffers and boron.

 

Some minor and trace elements are directly related to the metabolism of the captive marine organisms. Other minor and/or trace elements are directly related to the metabolism of the bio filter. Hence the addition of select minor and/or some trace elements. E.g. Iron, lithium, manganese, zinc, copper, rubidium, vanadium, etc.

 

Why is the S-15 Report only at www.aquacraft.net? Do you really think a producer of marine salts that scored less than 30 out of a possible 100 would want their customers to witness this most revealing information?

 

Aquarium Systems in Sea Scope has printed a few "assays" of IO as well as Marine Environment, Tropic Marin and Forty Fathoms. No reference was made to what lab did the testing, what test procedures were employed and major ions such as sulfate and minor ions such as bromide were ommited.

 

Check Sea Scope or Smoke Screen on the www.aquacraft.net link.

 

Why didn't any manufacturer of marine salts cry fowl when this and other reports were offered in English, German, French, Japanese, Chinese and Italian? -- They were caught with their pants down. Not much anyone can say when a US Govt. prime contract testing facility and an certified EPA lab. tested factory sealed, untamplered samples... Is there?

 

 

The entire S-15 Report is found on the site. From S-15 Report, to preparations of solutions to an individual evaluation of multiple samples of 15 different brands of marine salts.

 

Each brand was compared to NSW, not to one another.

 

All you have to do is simply read it.

 

No petty insults. If memory serves correctly, The Calgary aquarium society individual was one of the first to slam and challange the S-15 Report.

 

Who the F&*k am I.... Check my initials, cross reference with my name.... look at the Aqua Craft site.... Think about who has been doing this for 32 years?

 

Deal with it? No. You deal with it! Who the heck are you?

 

Free tee shirts.... and a $4.00 bucket... Hmmm. what do you think you are buying? Something made in a rusty cement mixer that is void of Br, low in Mg, So4, excessive in Li, a non uniform particle size mix that varies dramatically from batch to batch?

 

Can't find Gloibal Scientific Publications? Perhaps it is an off shore group of individuals that funded this and other projects for one reason... To find out why so many people drop out of this hobby?

 

Mr. Hans Weigant was a long time dear friend and collegue. His passing was a loss to the world. I trust the S-15 Report did not "take him out".

 

If anyone wants to know who I am... Just ask. No reason to perform like a sub-adult.

 

For those that cannot muster the testicular fortitude to be open mined, wish to evaluate other items, cannot understand what is being offered... sorry.

 

For those that understand the requirements of captive marine animals, we are here to help.

 

This is my third posting on Nano-Reef. My first posting was to offer general, non-offensive information to those that have similar problems as Chris. My second posting was to chum the water to gleen a sample of the intellect that posts here. This posting is offered to show some individuals that I am very well qualified in marine fish and reef aquarium keeping. As well as marine fish and coral breeding (not propigation of corals).

 

If anyone has questions that are not detailed on the www.aquacraft.net site (please read ALL the material before posting) I will make every effort to respond in kind.

 

I understand there are many educated and informed marine fish and reef keepers that use this site. I would like to communicate with them.

 

Unfortuniately, sites with threads, boards, etc. usually generate an initial frantic frenzy of posts, when someone qualified offeres guidance. These posts are made by a few individuals that do not have the disipline or mental capability to read, understand and digest text that is offered. E.g. These remarks are made by a few loose cannons that jump on a thread without the benefit of employing much if any thought process.

 

Brown, red, slime algae, marine fish that lose their natural sime coat and rich dramatic colors.... corals that waste away in several weeks.... problems maintaing proper pH, continual additions of supplements, and other common problems all have one binding thread... Low initial water quality. I.e. Water Quality Starts With Your Water. It cannot be any simpler.

 

To the nice people in areas that cannot secure premium items, just seach them out. To the miniscule number of dolts that continually Defend Their Positon Of Total Weakness... Oh well.

 

Consider what your captive marine animals need, vs. trying to shave a dollor or two dealing with your hobby/investment. After all, the cost of the water is the cheapest part of any aquarium.

 

If you don't like the message, don't kill the messenger.

 

I can feel the love in this thread.

 

MDP

[cmoreash]

Well, I was gonna stay out of this, but i wanted to say my opinion.

 

I'm new to salt water aquaria, but I've been involved with freshwater for a LONG time.

 

I do believe that you have high quality salts, and that a lot of other ones out there don't square up.

 

What bugged me was that you were pretty vicious getting your voice out. Yea, I'll get blasted for saying that, but since you're a businessman, it's probably best to speak to potential customers as kindly as possible.

 

I'm willing to try your salts, as I had no idea the ones I have are "terrible".

 

Well....I hope i don't get flamed now. X) I everyone here could use some R&R, we don't have to be vile to get points across .

[tinyreef]

'Lighten up Francis'

 

i like coralife. it's adequate. if one's worried about missing elements in the mix, you dose. that's part of the hobby.

 

out of those additives/elements you listed i'd only worry about Mg and kent has a additive btw. plus it's found in a half dozen others as a hitchhiking marine salt. (maybe the Li might bother me)

 

as to how it's mixed, short of paint flakes it doesn't matter to me. so i get a slight increase in ferric oxide (rust), there's my iron supplement. btw stainless will chip also under agitation. i work with stainless and steel from 20 to 56 Rc, nothing's unbreakable.

 

i'm sure you make a very quality product. and i'd agree that some of the 'popular' ones are um, sh*t? i don't do wc's so i don't go thru salt that much so i can't comment as much as others. next time i buy i'll try yours or tw because as dave says, put up or shut up. so i'll try before i bash or recommend your salt. btw i respect dave's opinion enough to take your salt on faith though.

 

i agree posts don't make the person, knowledge does. i'd like to learn more from you but please hold the asinine attitude. i'm trying to cut back, i get my fill from work.

 

i agree with cmoreash, i'd try to treat potential customers a

little better. courtesy is free, ill will takes alot of $$$ to get rid of. what's wrong with a free shirt anyway?

[gobies]

Why is the S-15 Report only at www.aquacraft.net?  Do you really think a producer of marine salts that scored less than 30 out of a possible 100 would want their customers to witness this most revealing information?

Hardly. But I *would* expect to see it on some of the non-commercial web sites related to marine aquaria.

 

Not much anyone can say when a US Govt. prime contract testing facility and an certified EPA lab. tested factory sealed, untamplered samples... Is there?

Perhaps question the methodology of the study -- were the tests done as blind tests, where the testers did not know in advance which brand was which?

 

from the site:

"Factory sealed packages of marine salts were forwarded to Anresco Inc. All samples were mixed with de-ionized water..."

What type of equipment was used for this mixing?

 

"...and the pH was measured one hour after hydration."

What equipment was used to measure the pH?

 

"Most non metals were then determined."

What methods were used?

 

>The Calgary aquarium society individual was one of the first to slam and challange the S-15 Report.

Out of curiosity... is your rebuttal posted anywhere?

 

>Deal with it? No. You deal with it! Who the heck are you?

Your potential customer.

 

Coral Marine has:

- twice as much lithium

MarineMix Professional has:

- sixteen times as much lithium

Why the elevated levels of iron, manganese, lithium, zinc, and *copper*?

Some minor and trace elements are directly related to the metabolism of the captive marine organisms. Other minor and/or trace elements are directly related to the metabolism of the bio filter. Hence the addition of select minor and/or some trace elements. E.g. Iron, lithium, manganese, zinc, copper, rubidium, vanadium, etc.

...

Free tee shirts.... and a $4.00 bucket... Hmmm. what do you think you are buying? Something made in a rusty cement mixer that is void of Br, low in Mg, So4, excessive in Li*, a non uniform particle size mix that varies dramatically from batch to batch?

*emphasis mine

 

(all numbers are the average of 2 samples where available)

[color=silver]salt           Br             Mg        SO4       Li NSW            65             1350      2700      0.17Crystal Sea    [color=orange]43[/color]             [color=yellow]1260[/color]      2646.5    0.28Coral Marine    [color=yellow]9.15[/color]          1302.5    2765      0.38Bio-Sea        63             1346.5    [color=limegreen]3267.5[/color]    [color=yellow]3.13[/color]Marine Env      9.4 (+55)     [color=yellow]1263.5[/color]    [color=limegreen]3316[/color]      [color=yellow]2.825[/color][/color]

 

>Can't find Gloibal Scientific Publications? Perhaps it is an off shore group of individuals that funded this and other projects

Just looking for some evidence that they are an independent party not connected with Aquacraft.

 

>For those that cannot muster the testicular fortitude

ROTFL...nope, can't do it, don't have the testicles.

 

>to be open mined, wish to evaluate other items, cannot understand what is being offered... sorry.

 

>For those that understand the requirements of captive marine animals, we are here to help.

Frankly, your salt sounds too good to be true. Whenever I see one of those, I try to find reasons why it might not be true before I buy into it. Thus I am questioning what I can't see, trying to find the holes in the report.

[Christopher Marks]

Well, I've officially decided to give Bio SEA salt a try, and I placed my order today. I'd imagine it will arrive in 4-6 days.

 

I'll keep everyone posted. Fortunately there is no hair algae in any of my other tanks, just some light diatoms, so I'll likely see an improvement in those tanks much sooner than my 90 gallon.

[Pikelet]

I certainly don't pretend to be even remotely knowledgeable about the process of making artificial marine salt but do posters need to be quite so aggressive on this subject?

 

Mr Aqua Craft claims to have a better range of products than his competition and has backed it up with a comparative analysis of his company's products using NSW as the baseline. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. It makes excellent business sense to me when you're trying to differentiate your products in the marketplace.

 

You can get bogged down in the accuracy of the analysis, funding of the report, omitted details, independence of the study and more but, in the end, the market will decide whether his company's products offer enough observable "real world" benefits to warrant the small price premium.

 

If you don't like his products, don't buy them. If you do, continue to purchase them. If you've never tried it, try it and reach your own conclusion.

 

Freedom of choice, ladies and gentlemen.

[Dave ESPI]

uhh Chris...... the salt ya needed was sent on Monday.... uhhh..... ya that impatinet? LMAO. ttyl now ya have another bag. Oh and ya still owe me another few $ fer shipping LOL.

[ekudl]

Wow what a thread, after reading this entire thread and reading over the S-15 report on AquaCrafts web site I too am very skeptical. As one of the postings has said if this was in fact done on a unbiased independent study than why can't you find the S-15 report on ANY other Marine related web site?

 

Also as someone else has mentioned how can one of their products get a 100 out of 100 when it has different readings from

NSW? I mean the whole intention of this test in the first place is to compare all of the salt mixes to Natural Sea Water isn't it? So only Natural Sea Water itself would score a 100 out of 100. IE Natural Sea Water = Natural Sea Water (100 out of 100).

 

From reading the harsh response from MDPinUSA in defending his products and bashing everyone elses, which is EXTREMELY unprofessional to say the least, is enough to make me STOP using his products and use one of the competitors again. I have used IO, Red Sea and BioSalt and have had good success with all three, for I believe that they all are good products. But I will not be purchasing your products again simply because of the way you are treating your potential customers cannot justify me using your products anymore, at any cost.

 

Would you like your competitor to bash your products in any way if they had a chance? I think NOT and that goes for any product in any field.

 

Congratulations MDPinUSA not only have you discredited the S-15 report but you also have lost a customer and possibly more potential ones at that.

[OscarBeast]

Personally, I don't care if synthetic sea salts replicate NSW or toilet waster as long as my corals thrive. Simple as that.

 

I had the pleasure of talking to MDP the other day in chat.

 

I asked MDP to produce any independent scientific statistical data that the use of his salt over any other brand resulted in the increased survival/growth of any corals. He could not produce a single piece of information pertaining to this at that time.

 

Instead I got a sales pitch and a load of information about the S-15 report. Told to try it and see myself and see... test it myself... etc. That was interesting, but not what I wanted to know.

 

Finally I got a couple of phone numbers of propagators that use his product to hear what they had to say about his product. LOL That still didn't cut it for me.

 

After very clearly pressuring MDP to produce any information regarding ONLY coral survival/growth, I was asked about just how many tanks I had. After letting MDP know this information, MDPinUSA informed me that he was not interested in trying to sell me any salt because I change out less than 150 gallons per year...

 

It is my opinion that he is unprofessional, ekudl, but that also doesn't mean that he has a good or bad product. It just means that his PR needs some serious work. Of course since many of us only have small tanks and it seems that he is not interested in selling his salt to us... or maybe it is only individuals that question his product... or maybe just me. Who knows? Who cares what kind of a person he is? I sure don't.

 

Aqua Craft might be producing a synthetic sea salt that is made with higher grade materials and it might be closer to NSW than some of the other salts, but that doesn't automatically make it the best product to use in our tanks.

 

He has the data to prove somewhat that he has higher grade salt that is closer to NSW. MDP however HAS STILL NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE PROVIDED ANY VIABLE UNBIASED SCIENTIFIC STATISTAL DATA THAT SHOWS THAT THE USE OF HIS PRODUCT OVER ANOTHER RESULTS IN INCREASED SURVIVAL/GROWTH.

 

This, my friends, is the data that is important to me as well as other reefers.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Chris I've made a few posts about the Bio Sea and I hate the stuff. My Ca is consistantly low, my pH is consistantly hi and my alk can range from 12dKH to 9dKH over 24 hours.

 

ME is more expensive but my Ca tests out at 380 my pH at 8.4 and my alk at 10dKH. I would like to find the perfect salt but hey, my wife couldn't find the perfect hubby so..........

[tinyreef]

MDPinUSA informed me that he was not interested in trying to sell me any salt because I change out less than 150 gallons per year...

 

maybe mdp can market a smaller package of Marine Environ. specifically for nanos. say a 25g~50g range. it'd have to be more expensive than his usual stuff to make it worth his while, of course.

 

mdp's a business man who has to spend his time chasing viable business so i don't fault him on not trying to court everyone who calls him up. i wouldn't even think of calling Aquarium Systems to discuss their products. hello? X)

 

but he does have a point imo, try his stuff and then judge. or listen to peeps that have tried his stuff. Bio Sea seems to be too complicated or screwy to use by everyone i've read (not an all-inclusive group mind you ) but ME seems to be getting a good rep.

 

other salts get bashed totally but peeps keep using them ???. scientific blah-blah is nice but as was mentioned, other hobbyists' or pros' recommendations can carry a lot of weight (assuming no compensation-type hanky panky : ).

 

[BCOrchidGuy]

Just for clarity, Bio Sea is easy to use it is ME that has the little pain in the bottle. That being said mix it up in a syrup with the little bottle added and use that as a base for your water changes. I like the ME even though that bottle makes it a pain.....

[tinyreef]

 

thanks bc, just shows i'm obviously not using any of his stuff presently. X) i've just been hearing the 'little bottle' of hell driving peeps nuts.

 

this is one tough horse btw.

[BCOrchidGuy]

I don't understand why they can't just include it in the dry mix, does it really have to be liquid to work?

[Prophecy]

My take on the matter.

 

A.) I would NEVER buy any products from someone with that kind of customer service attitude.

 

B.) Aqua Craft is advertising on this site..bias maybe?

 

C.) The customer support e-mail address is a aol.com ...can we say hokey?

 

D.) "S-15™ Report™ is offered in MARINE AQUARIST™".

[Prophecy]

Strict confidentiality is maintained in all interactions with Anresco, Inc.'s clients. Confidentiality agreements will be signed willingly upon request. If information is subpoenaed by a regulatory or legal body, the client will be promptly notified. In turn, the client agrees to respect such relationships of trust. The client agrees it will not use Anresco, Inc.'s name and/or data in any manner that might cause harm to the company's reputation and/or business. Under no circumstances is the name of Anresco, Inc. to be published, either alone or in association with that of any other party without our written consent.

 

 

You did remember to get permission right?

[Prophecy]

There is no United States trademark on S-15 Reports altho S-15 carrys a trademark by GMC. I know useless info but just makes me wonder.

[Prophecy]

I must be bored....

 

Aqua Craft which you show as a registered trademark is actually registered to another company. Wow such legal fun!

[SteveC]

Originally posted by Prophecy

D.)  "S-15™ Report™ is offered in MARINE AQUARIST™". <--- so the word S-15 is trademarked? and the word Report is trademarked? interesting.  Hows it feel holding the trademark on the word Report? thats pretty bad a$$.

Dude. You read the guy's message. He mixes his salts in zero gravity. Of course he's bada$$. Either he's in space, or he has an antigravity lab. Do not f^ck with this guy.

[SteveC]

Originally posted by Prophecy

I must be bored....

 

Aqua Craft which you show as a registered trademark is actually registered to another company.  Wow such legal fun!

 

Let me guess... new realtime strategy game from Blizzard? That would rock. The Cnidarids could place aiptasia around their base and the Crustaceans could launch a peppermint shrimp rush against them.

 

"pepp rush!!!!!1 lolololol kekekekekeke!! ^_^"

 

OK, I must be bored too. I should either get some sleep or do some homework. Frikkin' end of the quarter, grrrr.

 

Steve

[Prophecy]

SteveC,

When talking about this new game you want to create make sure to have someone do some tests on it that no one else can see and claim to be the best. Also it helps if you put a little TM on every other word it makes you seem more "official".

 

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