[Warning] Crystal Sea Salt Is Horrid

[Christopher Marks]

Well, after using Crystal Seal Marine Mix salt for over two years, I have finally come to the realization that it's a terrible salt mix, infact, one of the worst. I had always wondered why I could never get rid of these light diatoms that always appeared after a few days...now I know. My 90 gallon broke out in hair algae about 4 months back, and it's since gotten worse, nothing I did would slow or stop it...now I know.

 

So, a little lesson for anyone else out there who might be using Crystal Sea Salt - Don't! It's the cause of all those problems you could never get to go away, and it appears to only compound over time.

 

I'm now moving on to use Bio SEA Salt Mix, [www.aquacraft.net] which is supposed to be the best of the best when it comes to salt mixes. We'll see how quickly all this mess clears up. I'll keep everyone posted on how everything changes.

[rmedtr6]

Thanks for the update. I just placed my order of BioSea. If we are going to keep these animals in a glass box its our responsibility to make that 'box' as close to real world as possible. Much appreciated and useful post!!

[Crakeur]

Not that I have any experience with Bio Sea but the study that was done was done by the manufacturer. That's like Ford telling you that their trucks are the best. They aren't going to tell you Chrysler's trucks are better.

 

Let us know how the Bio Sea works out. I would take your word over the manufacturer and all their silly tests.

[flaunt]

crakeur is right, the "study" they did is a little flaky at best. in spite of that i decided to try their marine environment two part mix. i replaced about 1/3 of my tank water w/it when i got it, but that's all i've done so far. i haven't yet noticed anything very good or bad about it, so i'll keep using it atleast until i use up this bag. thing is, there's this "little bottle" that they claim makes a "big difference," but it doesn't say what all is in there, which kind of sucks. i'd like to know wtf i'm adding to my aquarium... plus i was reading some Shimek article on Reefcentral where he basically claimed all the "trace elements" are best filtered out of the saltwater since they build up over time. i'm probably adding even more of these elements with the "little bottle" than normal. the most frustrating part about this "hobby" is that there's almost no definitive ANSWER on ANYTHING, other than painfully obvious situations like putting 10 fish in a 10 gallon aquarium... yeah, you're gonna crash your tank. i guess that's the price associated w/trying to keep such a diversity of complicated life forms in a "bucket o' H20."

[Strife]

hehehe, AQUACRAFT....one of the manufacturing facility is near me..just called them and they are giving me good deals on salts..

[deacon hemp]

I was wondering if anyone uses bio sea additives,and if so

are they good?

[NanoReefer53]

whoa ! strife ! u gotta hook me up too.

[Dave ESPI]

Crakur, Im sorry to inform U that the sttudy was NOT done by Aquacraft NOR was it funded by them. I too was skeptical...

its a good salt. so #### off on the criticizim... if ya havent tried it.. dont knock it. IMO... Argue on it and get a flame war.

END OF discussion.:

[flaunt]

Dave,

then exactly who funded the study, i'm curious to know? and what was the motivation behind whoever had it done? i am pretty good at internet searches and i could not find even a mention of this study anywhere except for Aquacraft's website.

 

oh, and i'm using their salt, so don't flame me :

[reefriot]

i tried crystal sea once(LFS i visited had a good price on it) the only thing i noticed that i didn't like was how hard it was to completly dissolve. i prefer instant ocean but just bought a 200gal mix of red sea for 25.00 so am going to try this. anyone out there had any bad experiances with either of these? i've never heard of the salt your refering to but have always wondered about marinemix professional. has anyone tried this salt?

[flaunt]

reefriot,

i haven't used red sea but if you put any stock in the "study" on the www.aquacraft.net site like Dave apparently does, then you'll come to the conclusion that it sucks bad. not my opinion, it's in the "facts."

 

edit: oh and the only bad thing i've noted about Instant Ocean (the only salt i've used besides marine environment) was that if the salt gets damp in the bag for whatever reason, it makes it very difficult to dissolve any of the salt. i had to throw half a 50 gal bag away once because of that. i haven't noticed that with marine environment, yet atleast.

[Dave ESPI]

It was an independent lab ACTUALY funded by the USDA....... they were looking fer salts for food service.. they Found Mikes salt.. and Marineland salt. Many places use Marine land... those lobsteres taste like ######... I fould REAL Seafood CO. Restraunts use Aquacrafts salt.. THATS why they are good ! seriously....

its good salt. I speek no more.:x

[flaunt]

haha.. geez. i'll bet i can keep you talking if i keep poking at ya

 

tell us what you've experienced w/the salt that makes you so sure it's good? i mean i'm using it, i'd love to have reason to believe i'm THE MAN for using the best friggin salt on the USA market!

[reefriot]

ok now i have a question. after looking at the site. it looks like they make 3 differant salt mixes.

marine enviorment: scores 100 out of 100

bio sea: scores a 90 out of a 100

coral marine : scores a 79 out of a 100

now if they make all 3 why would they offer differant grades to the public? aren't they trying to offer the best for our livestock?

and if your using bio sea then your not using the best you need to use marine enviorment!

after reading all the threads on the differant salts i think i would like to try some of this especially since its about the same price delivered as buying another brand from my LFS. the only thing is what brand do i go with?

does aquacraft actually make all these salts and why are some of the bigger online stores not carring these salts?

someone clue me in, maybe if i drink another homebrew it will start to make sense!

:woot:

[Christopher Marks]

 

Simmer down...

 

I think they have the three grades of salt to provide lower cost options. Marine Environment is pretty expensive stuff, and I would imagine is kind of a pain mixing two parts together. And I think their coral marine salt is made to be their inexpensive salt to compete with the rest. Bio Sea is kind of the happy medium

[flaunt]

IMO bio-sea is for lazyasses... ok wait, i guess ME is a little more expensive but not much. anyway, it's a dry salt just like instant ocean and bio-sea, and after putting it in you then take the little friggin "bottle that makes the water into some magical super duper reef-growin elixer" and give it a dolop. yes, a "dolop" b/c the instructions make it sound like you're supposed to just dump the whole bottle into a 50 gallon vat of water with all the dry salt... RIIIIIGHT. sorry to be so sarcastic but sometimes u gotta decide between laughing and crying... i normally choose the former.

[gobies]

I've read the Aqua-craft study, and the company that makes the top three salts on the list is the company that set the scoring standards.

 

So, *anyone* could have done the actual testing, and the testing itself would be unbiased...but when the manufacturer of the three brands decides how the various factors are weighed, then I'm a lot more skeptical.

 

Now, if they had provided the raw data from the study, so I could weight it according to what *I* find important.....

 

 

I heard a report of someone using IO and finding that the pH crashed to 7.9 after being mixed for a day or two. Anyone else run into this?

 

My next salt tryout: Tropic Marin.

[Crakeur]

Originally posted by Dave ESPI

Crakur, Im sorry to inform U that the sttudy was NOT done by Aquacraft NOR was it funded by them. I too was skeptical...

its a good salt. so #### off on the criticizim... if ya havent tried it.. dont knock it. IMO... Argue on it and get a flame war.

END OF discussion.:

 

Lighten up Francis

[Dave ESPI]

ya KNOW I love you !

 

 

Respect mah Authoratah . Bieach !

 

or ask MDPUSA... I got him to join. I think... ?

[MDPinUSA]

When someone uses a marine salt that is: poorly produced, varies from batch to batch dramatically and/or is contaminated with undesireable impuirities (silicates, heavy metals, etc.) it is impossible to simply switch to another brand and expect to see brown, red, slime, hair algae, etc. to reverse in short order.

 

It is essential to clean out all impurities introduced by a low end marine salt before using what is hoped to be a better formulation.

 

Cyrstal Sea tested 33 out of 100 in the S-15 Report. In the last independent comparative test of marine salts its rating was lowered to 23.

 

There are several advertised brands of marine salts that are less than optimal.

 

Thank you. MDP

[flaunt]

so this bypasses the real question of where this "S-15 Report" came from. maybe MDP can tell us since he seems to put some stock into it's findings...

[MDPinUSA]

Holy Smokes.... All these people cannot completly read the ENTIRE S-15 Report that is posted on www.aquacraft.net.... What can I say?

 

The name of the funding organization, the independent lab. (a US Govt. prime contract testing lab.) the equipment and test procedures employed in the S-15 are all offered.

 

The information found on the site is word for word from the final report generated by the lab.

 

But, I will not make things to easy for those that wake up each morning to simply defend their position of total weakness... (I am being very nice to choose such delicate words).

 

Aqua Craft, Inc. produces 5 commercially available brands of marine salts. As well as compounding specality formulations for various clients.

 

Aqua Craft, Inc. produces four brands tageted to the aquarium or pet trade. Marine Environment is the Bently. BIO-SEA is the Mercedes 500. Coral Marine is the Mercedes Benz 320. Meersalts is the C class Benz.

 

Aqua Craft, Inc. produces four different brands/formulations/price points for the various individuals that may realize the cost of marine salt is the lowest price item of their entire system. They also offer other formulations destined for use by those that shop on price only.

 

Aqua Craft, Inc. is the ONLY marine salt manufactaurer that employes all major components that are individually extrated from natural sea water (without heat) or created in a laboratory. All minor and trace elements are AR grade (analytical grade).

 

Aqua Craft. Inc. is the only marine salt manufacturer that mixes all formulations in a near weightless, anti-gravity, pressure controlled dry fluidized bed amalgamotor. -- What does that mean? Simply, each component in each formulation is evenly dispursed throughout each package. Bag after bag... case after case... pallet after pallet.

 

If you don't mind having your marine salts mixed in a non-stainless steel (rusty) cement mixer, go for Coralife. If you don't mind having your marine salts mixed in 45+ year old technology mixer, go to Instant Ocean, Kent or Reef Crystals. If you don't mind having a marine salt that various so dramatically from package to package it is virutally impossible to believe these salts are even mixed... go for Crystal Sea or Red Sea. If you don't mind using a marine salt that is chronically defecient in essential calcium and plagued with hundred to times more metals vs. natural sea water, go for Tropic Marin or hW.

 

Aqua Craft, Inc. was created by the first person in the world to: breed, raise, advertize and sell tropical marine fish in a 100% artificial sea water medium. Also all first foods were raised in a 100% artificial or synthetic medium. This was from 1971-1974.

 

But for those that cannot understand what is being offered, I suggest you simply use Aqua Craft, Inc's. MEERSALTZ. AKA PAMF (public aquarium maintenance formula).

 

Now for the serious marine fish and reef keeper.... you already understand that Water Quality Starts With Your Water. There is no way: RO/DI water as a starting source, supplements, additives, UV, skimmers, plenums, costly lighting, chemical filtration items can turn initally Bad Water into Good Water.

 

Marine Environment is a simple to use two part formula. You mix all the salts to the proper SG, then add the contents of the little botrtle. OR-- you can mix the entire contents of a suitable size package into a smaller amount of clean fresh water, then add the contents of the little bottle. -- Then simply use this concentrate with additional clean fresh water for suitable size water changes.... Unless all this is too much for you to grasp.

 

For those that purchase a 150-200 size package, and believe you can take a few pounds to make a few gallons of water, in a pathetic attempt to 'save money'... BUCKLE UP! -- By now you have realized that by the time you get to the middle to last third of the package, you have cement... Wet or damp marine salts mix to a dangerouly high pH. (pH and toxic ammonia are related. The same water with a higher pH will have more ammonia).

 

One of the reasons I have not posted on "threads or boards" in the past is the unbelieveable number of people that refuse to deal with or understand data provided on some of the better web sites. I have no time to deal with people that think that because one site offers independent information, and sells some of the items that scored high... something is amiss.

 

The only thing amiss is the people that continually are plagued with brown, red, slime or hair algae. The same people continually tell us that their tank is running great... I.e. These people have problems and don't know it... or refuse to understand the very basics that will negate, correct or rectify these blunders.

 

There is one reason Aqua Craft, Inc. salts scored high in the S-15 Report. This is how they are made. Just that simple.

 

There is a wealth of real, honest, factual, independently generated information at www.aquacraft.net. All interested individuals have to do is read it.

 

For those of you that have not tried various marine salts, you have nothing to say. For you that have switched around with various brands and see no difference, you might not have tried a product that scored over 35 out of 100?

 

All marine salts contain sodium chloride (common salt). After that, it is impossible for any of us visually evaluate the possible contents or potential working ability of any marine salt.

 

The first independent tests on marine salts were performed in 1980. Multiple tests have been conducted to Nov. 2001.

 

If there are non-belivers in unbiased, scientifically generated facts, then they are free to spend $44,000+, secure multiple samples (different sizes made from different batches of each brand of marine salt they are curious about) the services of a suitable independent lab. and conduct a study of their own.

 

FAMA and TFH will not print such results. This is why the ENTIRE S-15 REPORT is offered at www.aquacraft.net

 

Thank you. MDP

[gobies]

Okay...a couple of questions, then...

 

Coral Marine has:

- only 5% of the boron

- only 15% of the bromide (text admits to being low in this)

and some "supplements":

- twenty times as much iron

- twice as much lithium

- almost ten times as much manganese

- three times as much zinc

 

MarineMix Professional has:

- only 5% of the boron

- more than twice as much iron

- sixteen times as much lithium

- twelve times as much manganese

= ten times as much copper

 

Why so low on the boron?

Why the elevated levels of iron, manganese, lithium, zinc, and *copper*???

 

 

Also...is the entire text of the "S-15 Report" on the Aquacraft site in one piece/place?

[reefriot]

i am wondering the same thing. why is the S-15 report only available on aquacraft? and is it complete? its hard to believe that theres nothing wrong with any of there salts. i am still interested in trying it but have seen some lenghty threads on another reef boards about this and the verdict isn't that good.

i don't claim to no much about salts and chemistry but i still want the best for my tank. i'm just wondering why none of the other salt co. have responded to the bashing of there products? ???

[Dave ESPI]

yall need to read the site. The entire report and how to obtain a copy is there. I will look to see if I CAN FIND IT FOR THE DOPES.... who cant.

 

QUOTE: "The first and only, extensive, in-depth and scientifically validated assay of 15 different brands of marine salts has been completed and the results have been compiled in the S-15™ Report™ by Anresco, Inc." (Anresco Laboratories in San Francisco)

..."The S-15 Report™ was prepared by Anresco Laboratories, an independent third party laboratory. The majority of testing was performed by the University of Missouri, a US Government prime contract testing laboratory, Environmental Trace Substances Research Center, Dept. of Environmental Science & Technology."

 

 

http://www.aquacraft.net/s9911.html

http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html

 

and the fall-out and Corporate wars resulting from the results of the report.

 

the address: Anresco Inc (19)

1370 Van Dyke Av (click for map)

San Francisco, CA 94124

(415) 822-1100

 

http://www.aquacraft.net/sp0003.html

 

its all there.