Getting back into the hobby after 5 year hitaus - recommendations for AIOs

[Jphom]

Hey everyone!

 

Been an avid reefer for some time. I have been moving a lot in the past 5 years, so a reef tank wasn't practical for me and my wife. Started out with a Nuvo 10 as my first formal tank with coral and all, then upgraded to a 30 and eventually had a cube 60 as my actual big tank.

Right now, I have an apartment. Would like to go back to a nano reef, thinking about starting another reef on my kitchen counter.

 

I would prefer to stick with an AIO, no room for a sump. I was eyeing the Nuvo 20, but wanted some ideas/recommendations on what might be the best choice.

I would ideally start with some fish, then move into corals later on once the tank is established.

[Staticmoves]

Did you eye up the Hello Reef kit…

looks solid for the counter…

@pgrVII just set one up if you have questions.

[Jphom]

I did see that, so interesting to see how many new players are out since I was last here. 

 

I'm more interested in nodding and piecing together a tank rather than buying a starter kit. Also I like the nuvo 20 since it's shallow and long, I've had two cubes now and prefer a different aquascape. 

[Sturgi_0225]

Waterbox 25 is nice

waterbox 15

innovative marines are nice tanks as well

however if you want to go all out redsea e170 are pretty sweet too! 

[mcarroll]

6 hours ago, Jphom said:

Been an avid reefer for some time. I have been moving a lot in the past 5 years, so a reef tank wasn't practical for me and my wife. Started out with a Nuvo 10 as my first formal tank with coral and all, then upgraded to a 30 and eventually had a cube 60 as my actual big tank.

Right now, I have an apartment. Would like to go back to a nano reef, thinking about starting another reef on my kitchen counter.

 

I would prefer to stick with an AIO, no room for a sump. I was eyeing the Nuvo 20, but wanted some ideas/recommendations on what might be the best choice.

I would ideally start with some fish, then move into corals later on once the tank is established.

If you've had a successful reef tank before, I'd consider adding fish LAST if possible.  

 

Gradually adding CUC and corals first will allow the tank to become more established BEFORE you massively increase the nutrient inputs by adding fish.  (If you haven't done corals before, then it might be better to wait for them.)

 

BTW, I run a 125 gallon tank as an AIO....can you fit anything bigger than 20 gallons?  If your prefence is fish, you're pretty limited in anything under 30-40 gallons.  Once you get up to 6 feet your options are MUCH less limited.

[geekreef_05]

In my opinion, WaterBox and RedSea have the better nano AIOs. Well thought out, matching stands, equipment...there's alot of parts support and hobby support.

 

Check out their websites. 

 

However, im a huge fan of shallow reefs too, and there arent alot of options. Its unfortunate. 

 

The 33 long may still be around. 

Its 48"x13"x13". 

 

Great size. One of my favorite reefs from back in the day.

 

I have a custom shallow aquarium. Cost more, but i dont regret it. 

 

Lots of advantages, from being easy to work on, good gas exchange, easy to light and easy to look at! 

 

If you know what you want for shallow reef size, id say it maybe worthwhile looking into a custom shop near you.

[colormegone]

You could join the Lifegard gang if you want something in a AIO for a kitchen counter. They make some good tanks in many shapes/sizes.

[Jphom]

6 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If you've had a successful reef tank before, I'd consider adding fish LAST if possible.  

 

Gradually adding CUC and corals first will allow the tank to become more established BEFORE you massively increase the nutrient inputs by adding fish.  (If you haven't done corals before, then it might be better to wait for them.)

 

BTW, I run a 125 gallon tank as an AIO....can you fit anything bigger than 20 gallons?  If your prefence is fish, you're pretty limited in anything under 30-40 gallons.  Once you get up to 6 feet your options are MUCH less limited.

 

My last tank (60 Cube) I just migrated stuff over from my 30. But when I started the reef tank, it was a FOWLR then I waited 6 months to add coral. I first started out with some softies, then finished with some LPS corals.

 

I was always told to let the tank settle and mature before adding coral, but it seems like times have changed.

Once we have a house, I'd have a bigger tank but we're in a very dense city and move too often to upgrade to a monster. The 20-30 would just make most sense if we have to move again, but my preference in fish to stock would most likely be some small wrasse, blennies etc.

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Jphom said:

I was always told to let the tank settle and mature before adding coral, but it seems like times have changed.

The ONLY change is (maybe) your skill level. 😉 

 

As I said, if you don't have good (ie successful) experience with corals, it's probably better to wait on them.  (It's mostly about getting your skill level up, not really about changes happening in the tank.)

 

If you currently have NO PROBLEM with taking care of corals, then they can actually speed the tank along toward stability AND they will diminish the nutrient spike the tank will receive from adding fish (really from the food you'll be adding for them).  This will either tame or even prevent an algae bloom from happening, among other good side effects.

 

2 hours ago, Jphom said:

Once we have a house, I'd have a bigger tank but we're in a very dense city and move too often to upgrade to a monster. The 20-30 would just make most sense if we have to move again, but my preference in fish to stock would most likely be some small wrasse, blennies etc.

I totally get it...it was 10+ years with little tanks before I could upgrade them into a single 125G.  A 50 Gallon (36"; aka 50 Breeder) is about the biggest tank I'd wanna move by myself.  A 40 Breeder is a good compromise, and much easier to find for sale (for $40!).  Anything smaller than that and you don't have a whole lot of room for fish...and only for VERY small fish.

 

Good luck with whatever you select!!

[Jphom]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

The ONLY change is (maybe) your skill level. 😉 

 

As I said, if you don't have good (ie successful) experience with corals, it's probably better to wait on them.  (It's mostly about getting your skill level up, not really about changes happening in the tank.)

 

If you currently have NO PROBLEM with taking care of corals, then they can actually speed the tank along toward stability AND they will diminish the nutrient spike the tank will receive from adding fish (really from the food you'll be adding for them).  This will either tame or even prevent an algae bloom from happening, among other good side effects.

Never thought about that, I guess I was stuck listening to a lot of older reefers in the hobby. Who always were super adamant about letting the tank idle for about a year before adding coral. The only thing I could never tackle and handle was red turf algae, had to nuke a tank and start over. So quarantantining was a very time/expensive lesson for me.

 

I have only had luck with LPS, Zoas, Softies (shrooms etc), what would you recommend to start with?

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

 

I totally get it...it was 10+ years with little tanks before I could upgrade them into a single 125G.  A 50 Gallon (36"; aka 50 Breeder) is about the biggest tank I'd wanna move by myself.  A 40 Breeder is a good compromise, and much easier to find for sale (for $40!).  Anything smaller than that and you don't have a whole lot of room for fish...and only for VERY small fish.

 

Good luck with whatever you select!!

Thank you!

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, Jphom said:

I have only had luck with LPS, Zoas, Softies (shrooms etc), what would you recommend to start with?

Whatever you think you want the most and will be successful with!   Any or all would be good potential options IMO.  Personally I'd probably lean to LPS out of that list, but that's because I have a preference for stony corals.

[KC2020]

7 hours ago, Jphom said:

Never thought about that, I guess I was stuck listening to a lot of older reefers in the hobby.

I'll have you know I represent that remark 😁 I've been in the hobby for over 5 decades, 4 decades with live rock/live reef tanks. But I would never tell you to wait a year for corals, SPS maybe. 

It's interesting that someone should assume your skill set and experience though you haven't really gone into much detail about it. Fish or coral first can both be done, it's all relative to what those fish and corals are. The better discussion is what amount of testing and care are you up for. A cycled tank will handle a gradual increase in bio load. Patience and testing are key. If you introduce fish first their tolerance of a short spike in ammonia or nitrites could be risky. It depends on the fish. The same is true for corals, it depends on the coral. If you add a clean up crew, feed them and make sure the tank is completely cycled for a month you could probably add both at the same time without issue. The willingness and ability to do a quick water change can make all the difference should you find a short cycle happening when you thought you were past that point. 

I too have recently moved and have now be relegated to an apartment and so you find me joining this forum and setting up a 20 Nano. I looked at the Red Sea, Innovative Marine and several other brands. I bought a Waterbox 20 cube AIO and stand. I started to build the stand and found that a couple of parts were missing. I just received them today. Kind of frustrating but it happens. I also bought a Maxspect 12 AIO with stand, it just arrived. The 12 will be used to bring some of the rock I have back to life, Tonga branch that I removed from my last large tank before moving. Once I've re-established the rock then it will be moved to the 20 with some more that's still dry, the tank will be allowed to cycle and the 12 will be a quarantine tank. The quality of both tanks is great. Definitely on par with Red Sea. The Chinese are making all of these brands and doing it quite well.

Having said all that. How much room is there on the counter you were eyeing for the tank ? How much work are you willing to do, testing, water changes, dipping corals ?

I had this guy in an 18 gal Nano for 5 years. ORA fish, wild coral. I traded them to a friend and they live on.

 

[geekreef_05]

KC2020 hit the nail on the head with reefcare dramatically increasing in time and effort for testing and adjustments, if you stock the tank quickly. 

 

Stocking quickly means committing to daily testing and adjustments for a few months. 

 

Awesome that your back in the hobby. Hope you post some pictures of your aquarium.

 

 

[Jphom]

I would chalk my experience up with intermediate, far from novice but not close to expert. Back were the days of dosing vodka and using a raw shrimp to cycle a tank.

 

I just bought the Nuvo 20, super excited to have that show up sometime next week hopefully. Also added a bunch of equipment to the list as well, I am going to start with dry base rock and start the cycle using Dr Tim's OnO. I used this years ago to start my last tank (30 gallon), I'll be adding just CUC and feeding during the cycle. Maybe check out a few frag shops near by and add a coral or two then once things level off. 

 

Add a fish to start then maybe another down the road.

 

As far as space goes on the counter, I have about 3 feet to myself. My wife was graciously generous with giving up that space for me, as for mixing/maintenance. I have a guest bathroom with a walk in shower, I plan on using this to store RODI and premixed water and also using it to store a quarantine/hospital tank.

 

For testing, I'm going to be lazy here. I decided to add some Hanna Testers to my roster, I like the ease of being to quick test Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite. I would love a digital salinity tester but might stick with just a refractometer/hydrometer for simplicity.  Water changes, I have never been lazy on. Especially with nanos, no reason you can't do a 5 gal change in 10 minutes. Have an RODI machine on the way as well, got an old brute tote that was left at my inlaws from my old tank. So glad I didn't throw that out!

 

Question for everyone, how often should I be testing for the big 3? especially during cycling and post cycling? 

 

 

 

[geekreef_05]

I would recommend getting one of those ammonia sticky card things for cycling. They are this new fangled thing that allows temporary live monitoring to quell your inner need for the cycle to end. 

 

And it will eliminate like half your testing for the cycling period..

[Jphom]

1 hour ago, geekreef_05 said:

I would recommend getting one of those ammonia sticky card things for cycling. They are this new fangled thing that allows temporary live monitoring to quell your inner need for the cycle to end. 

 

And it will eliminate like half your testing for the cycling period..

Thanks, Geekreef! How often do you test for Ammonia afterwards? As in after the cycle period is over?

[KC2020]

Just leave the Ammonia Alert in the tank after you've cycled. An unexpected fish death, hidden behind the rocks, or any number of unanticipated events in your tank can create an ammonia spike. 

[Jphom]

Ordered some BioSpira to get the tank jumpstarted, decided against Dr Tims. That being said, should I cycle with CUC or just dose ammonia until the tank cycles?

[KC2020]

As long as you get a bottle that's in-date it really doesn't matter which brand you choose. 

Cycling with a hermit crab or two has always been my preferred method because there's at least something living to watch. Both methods work.

[Jphom]

Alrighty, 

 

Now that we have all of that established. Question goes out for everyone, who does and doesn't quarantine new fish? 

 

I've been away from my trusted lfs years now, many states away unfortunately. Never had to quarantine, always trusted the lfs and never had an issue with sick fish or parasites. 

 

I'm in north jersey now, haven't explored lfs around me but there seems to be a ton. I don't know how comfortable I am buying from a local store until I really get to know them. Obviously everyone runs a different ship, I know I should have qt setup but am debating on buying from a vendor instead that qts their fish. 

 

How do you all buy your fish? Do you qt every new fish and cuc/coral? 

 

Do you trust the word a lfs says if they claim to qt? 

[mcarroll]

12 hours ago, Jphom said:

Thanks, Geekreef! How often do you test for Ammonia afterwards? As in after the cycle period is over?

Ammonia is food for the tank one the cycle has completed.  Unless something has gone wrong, there should be no need to test for ammonia on an ongoing basis.

 

8 hours ago, Jphom said:

Ordered some BioSpira to get the tank jumpstarted, decided against Dr Tims. That being said, should I cycle with CUC or just dose ammonia until the tank cycles?

IMO, start with CUC since they product SO LITTLE ammonia that a dangerous spike won't be created.  Just be VERY moderate in your feeding.  And whatever you pick, stock them SLOWLY so the amount of ammonia being generated in the tank only increases SLOWLY as well.  (You would like to never see ammonia on your test kit....certainly you never want to see it in the danger zone.)

 

2 hours ago, Jphom said:

Question goes out for everyone, who does and doesn't quarantine new fish? 

 

I've been away from my trusted lfs years now, many states away unfortunately. Never had to quarantine, always trusted the lfs and never had an issue with sick fish or parasites. 

 

I'm in north jersey now, haven't explored lfs around me but there seems to be a ton. I don't know how comfortable I am buying from a local store until I really get to know them.

Well, if you have a selection of stores available GET OUT THERE AND SEE 'EM!!!  (I have none, so I'm jealous!!)

 

Find out which ones are good at what they do – you might be surprised!!  But at the very least know how the store you buy from cares for their fish.  This will dictate how YOU need to take care of them after the purchase.

 

For example, if all the stores around your keep their fish in low-dose copper, then QT is pretty much 100% on you.  (Almost worst-case scenario – hopefully you can find stores that don't use meds like this.)

 

But hopefully that's not how it goes for you....you SHOULD be able to buy like you used to if you can find one good shop (or more!).  Be patient with EVERY purchase, and don't bring up ANY suspect fish!  👍

 

If you DO have to QT, then set up an observation tank....it should probably be at least the size of your small tank, depending on what fish you're looking at.  30-40 gallons makes a really nice QT, but a little smaller is OK.   A *lot* smaller is not OK because QT can't be made into a stressful experience for the fish....or you're defeating the purpose.  Only treat with medication if you diagnose an actual parasite or something,...not on suspicion.

[geekreef_05]

I disagree with Mcarroll. 

 

I would cycle with just bacteria.  No fish. No inverts. No CUC. 

 

Why? Ammonia is harmful to all animals in high concentrations. Why harm animals when you dont need to. Bacteria will cycle the tank. Inverts will have little effect. 

 

Plus. What will the CUC eat? If you have not been running for 3 months, what algae are they cleaning up. You risk starving the CUC off the hop. 

[Matt2939]

I would suggest the Landen 60P AIO.  You can find on Amazon.  I got the stand and tank for $600 shipping included.  So far I am very impressed with the tank. 

[Jphom]

Well everyone, looks like the Nuvo Fusion 20 is off my list. Just received an email from IM today that the tank is out of stock and order is cancelled, can't seem to find them anywhere else without the APS pedestal.

 

Decided with that price point, I am going to be ordering the Waterbox 20 instead. Really wanted the NF 20 due to the layout of the tank, but unfortunately I am not willing to shell out almost 500 bucks for the same tank. After some hard thinking, I am back to a cube. It's almost like destiny, didn't want a cube again but life is choosing that for me!

 

Will post some photos next week when it comes in. Super excited to see how this all works out.  

[Jphom]

New tank came in!

Nuvo Fusion 20, was able to get one after all.
Very pleased with the construction, piecing it all together now.

 

I have a question for you fellow reefers, I'd like to home some coral in my tank. Mostly LPS/Softies, been looking at lights for my tank and I ran into a dilemma. 

My tank will be on my kitchen counter, I have fairly high cabinets but seeing the tank in person. There's only about 5-6 inches of free space above the tank, seeing a lot of lights require some distance above. Is this going to limit my choice of lights?