What is this and how do I get rid of it

[Minireeftank]

I have been battling what I thought was diatoms for 6 months and I’m at a loss, cleaning it constantly, have tried silicate removers etc as i was advised that would help, but when I got a silicate test kit no silicates showed up, my paramaters haven’t changed their what they’ve always been and I’ve tried black outs but it always comes back and it grows so quickly 

[seabass]

While the appearance is sometimes similar to cyanobacteria (cyano), it's most likely dinoflagellates (dinos).  I assume that nutrient (phosphate and nitrate) levels have bottomed out.  Dinos are often a result of using dry rock (with lack of biodiversity) and low nutrient levels (which restricts photosynthetic competition to dinos).  Often water changes seem to make the outbreak worse.

 

Treatment options for dinos usually involves stopping nutrient export (like water changes), and even dosing phosphate and nitrate.  In addition, people often try to build up the biodiversity by adding pods and even live rock that has been in the ocean.  In addition, the free swimming species can benefit from UV sterilization (there are special recommendations for treating dinos).

 

There are endless posts and articles on dinos if you search the web for them.  You'll see people removing their sand beds, dosing hydrogen peroxide, etc.  Note that some of these "treatments" are not compatible with each other; for example, dosing hydrogen peroxide can actually reduce or harm biodiversity.  I'm not really an expert on the treatment of dinos; however, there has been much written about it.

[banasophia]

Looks more like cyano to me since, to me, the photos look like more of a reddish/burgundy color rather than brown. Cyano is way easier to deal with than dinoflagellates, so that will be better if that’s what it is. I would try to treat with Chemiclean first (which is an antibiotic), per the directions to see if that clears it up. 
 

If it’s actually brown rather than red, then I would agree with seabass. 

[Lebowski_]

Here's what I did to beat it:

 

1. Set your whites, red and greens all to 0%.

2. Each day, manually remove as much as you can using a turkey baster. Blow any you see off the rocks.

3. Dose Microbakter 7 each day, while the lights are on.

4. At night, dose 1mL per 10g of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (easy to find at any store or pharmacy).

5. Repeat for 5 days, with no waterchanges and no cleaning film algae off your glass.

 

By day 3 I saw a reduction, no more big strands or bubbles. By day 5, it was gone.

 

The jury is out on the peroxide - it acts as an oxidizing agent but some say they don't know for sure it isn't harming their coral so they stay away from it. I decided to go with it because my cyano was starting to affect my coral.

 

This was in my old tank, here are the pics:

 

Day 0

 

 

Day 5:

 

You can still see some on the glass because I didn't want to disturb the film algae which is an ally in this fight, but the sand was clean and the rock was clean as well.

 

 

I also reduced my lights overall to 25% of their original strength during treatment.

 

 

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

16 hours ago, Lebowski_ said:

The jury is out on the peroxide - it acts as an oxidizing agent but some say they don't know for sure it isn't harming their coral so they stay away from it. I decided to go with it because my cyano was starting to affect my coral.

I used it with great success in my latest tank. I actually really bumped the dose of Hydrogen Peroxide up with no ill effects. I got up to about 3ml to every 10 gallons, twice a day. No corals were bothered in the slightest. (It should be noted, I only dosed early in the morning, before lights were on, and late in the evening once the lights had turned off for the day.) 

[mcarroll]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:12 AM, Minireeftank said:

I have been battling what I thought was diatoms for 6 months and I’m at a loss, cleaning it constantly, have tried silicate removers etc as i was advised that would help, but when I got a silicate test kit no silicates showed up, my paramaters haven’t changed their what they’ve always been and I’ve tried black outs but it always comes back and it grows so quickly 

Diatoms are definitely more tan colored.   Cyano is variable in color, but usually more wispy and deep-red like @Lebowski_'s closeup pic.

 

Your bloom seems to have an orangish tint, which *can* indicate dino's.  (Maybe dino's co-blooming with cyano.)

 

Can you post your tank's No3 and Po4 levels, and other stats you keep track of?  Also, anything interesting about the tank, like its age, how it's cleaned and/or filtered, etc.  👍

 

Also, can you get a sample of the algae in a container (eg vial) and shake the algae to pieces....the leave it under tank lights (or sunlight) for 30-60 minutes to see if it regroups into any kind of mass.  Only dino's move like that.  Other algae will remain in bits.

 

If you have a microscope, a view of the sample that way will be very interesting as well.  Cellphone cameras usually take GREAT microscope pics.  (Even a toy scope will work for this, BTW.)   Dino's are easy to spot.

 

 

[Minireeftank]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:48 PM, mcarroll said:

Diatoms are definitely more tan colored.   Cyano is variable in color, but usually more wispy and deep-red like @Lebowski_'s closeup pic.

 

Your bloom seems to have an orangish tint, which *can* indicate dino's.  (Maybe dino's co-blooming with cyano.)

 

Can you post your tank's No3 and Po4 levels, and other stats you keep track of?  Also, anything interesting about the tank, like its age, how it's cleaned and/or filtered, etc.  👍

 

Also, can you get a sample of the algae in a container (eg vial) and shake the algae to pieces....the leave it under tank lights (or sunlight) for 30-60 minutes to see if it regroups into any kind of mass.  Only dino's move like that.  Other algae will remain in bits.

 

If you have a microscope, a view of the sample that way will be very interesting as well.  Cellphone cameras usually take GREAT microscope pics.  (Even a toy scope will work for this, BTW.)   Dino's are easy to spot.

 

 

Nitrate and phosphates are almost 0 cause of all the excessive cleaning I did thinking it was diatoms, the low nitrate and phosphate makes me think it’s dino, looked under a microscope but couldn’t match to any google images of anything 

[Minireeftank]

After some searching online I have identified that these are dinos, I had taken photos and shown my LFS and they’d said it was diatoms and sold me two hermits and an emerald crab to eat it- unfortunately these died and from looking online it seems dinos kill inverts, is there anything that eats dinos?

[seabass]

On 7/17/2023 at 5:53 AM, Minireeftank said:

is there anything that eats dinos?

No, there really isn't anything that you can purchase which will effectively rid your tank of dinos by eating them.  I look at it more as supporting other photosynthetic life, and providing and supporting biodiversity which competes with dinos (like adding live rock from the ocean, pods, phytoplankton, and supporting the beneficial life in your tank).

[Cscultho]

Ive battle dino's many of times and ultimately the only tried and true way I was able to beat it was to remove all the sand from the system and leave it as barebottom.  Not ideal but covering the bottom with coral was a cleaner and healthier way for my system.

 

[mcarroll]

4 hours ago, Minireeftank said:

is there anything that eats dinos?

Lots of things eat them all the time.  Normally, it's no problem.

 

But when the dino's get into toxic bloom mode, it's obviously not good for the critter doing the eating.  Snails and crabs will sometimes appear stunned or drunk after eating if there's just a small dino presence.  But if it's a heavy bloom they don't usually survive.

 

Check out this thread I started a few years back on dino's and treatments.

 

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

 

It's a bit dense, but read all the links and everything else on the main post of the thread.  Reading all 615 pages of posts is optional, and probably not necessary....but reading some comments will probably help you see how folks have worked out the treatment on their tank.

 

You might consider posting your vid there to see if someone can ID the type you have....treatment does vary somewhat by type.

 

In general, your algae were starving....and unlike most algae, dino's have an alternate strategy that involves "freeing up" dissolved nutrients by killing everything in the water around them....*especially* anything that tries to eat them.  Decomposition makes dissolved nutrients.  Bacteria consume 99.99% of them immediately.  Dino's eat bacteria.   Voila...dino bloom.

 

Bacteria and cyanobacteria are the only things that seem to "co-bloom" with dino's.  (Nothing co-blooming in your vid though.)

 

So your primary task is to make the tank hospitable to things OTHER than dino's and bacteria.  

 

To begin with, that means maintaining minimum levels of nutrients.  

 

Start by making sure you aren't unnecessarily removing nutrients from the system such as by filtration or water changes.   A protein skimmer is the only thing I'd consider running, and it could be optional depending on your setup.  

 

Often, removing filtration is not enough to make the necessary correction – things at this point are VERY out of balance after all.  Frequently, dosing liquid nitrates and phosphates is ALSO necessary to maintain minimum nutrient levels for a while.

 

Things like corals and green algae have the same nutrient requirements...this demand creates the minimum acceptable PO4 and NO3 levels.  

 

On top of this demand for nutrients from corals/algae, there are other processes related to the dino bloom that are ALSO potentially placing a large demand on dissolved nutrients.  (See that link for more details.)

 

Creating and maintaining a PO4 level of ≥ 0.10 ppm and NO3 level of ≥ 5 ppm is ideal to cover all current demands for dissolved nutrients.  Test and dose every day, as needed, until those levels are stabilized.

 

Depending on how intense your bloom has gotten, some tanks respond VERY quickly to the corrections you'll be making.  But if the bloom has become established, it can take a while to turn things around.

 

Your tank doesn't look bad at all in the opening photos, so I'll cross my fingers that things will turn around on the faster side of things.  👍  

 

But if your tank is worse off than it appears, then make sure you understand all the stuff I put on that Dino thread.  Feel free to keep asking questions!!  👍👍