Home Office Shallow Reef

[geekreef_05]

DINO-X UPDATE:

 

I think there's a very small change from yesterday. A tad less dinosaurs accorss the sandbed. 

 

 

 

Closer...

 

But here the rub. Im not liking what im seeing with my pH. Its tanking my pH hard. 

 

 

Im gonna stop dosing DINO-X this evening. Let the pH recover. I'll do some water tests to see what this is doing to calc and alk, etc. 

 

Hm. Not good. Try to solve one problem. End up with another. Nothing has come easy with this reef. 

[geekreef_05]

Oy veh. 

 

pH bottomed out at 7.5 this AM. 

One shrimp dead. 

 

Ugh. What a mess. 

 

I'll start to prep a big water change. Hopefully that'll level things out. 

 

Its too bad cause i wasnt able to get all the way through the Dino-x treatment. There's still dinosaurs roaming all over the rockwork and sand. Id be on day 7 of 15 day treatment.Got halfway through. Had some positive effect. But now im trying to save the inhabitants.

 

Ugh. 

 

 

EDIT: 

Hm. Plot thickens. I double checked the Seneye readings with an old school pH test. Parameters with that test seem closer to normal. 

 

Seneye reads pH 7.5

Test kit reads 7.7-7.8. 

 

I'll double check the test kit accuracy with my 20 gallon. Its got a real time readout pH probe. 

 

I pulled the dead shrimp out. Looks like he molted overnight. Could have been a molt gone wrong. Happens sometimes. Hm. 

 

Water change, RO bucket is filling. Hm

 

UPDATE: 

I doubled checked my test kit against the pH probe in this reef... 

...my Den Aquarium. 

 

 

Its been there, just like that for 1 year. Lights at like 2%. No inhabitants. 

 

I wont be doing anything with it until the Office Reef is stable. I may eventually turn the lights up and get a CUC. Thats all until the Office Reef is solid. 

 

So for the Office Reef, i paused the water change. I know your not supposed to do a WC while using DINO-X, and an emergency water change is no longer needed.

 

Somehow this pH reading issue coincided with starting DINO-X. Maybe it killed the Seneye Slide or maybe a bubble got into the sensor. I'll just put a new slide in after DINO-X dosing is finished. 

 

So what im thinking is...i continue DINO-X dosing tonight as per instructions. 

 

When complete do a big WC and put in a new slide. Hm. 

[geekreef_05]

DINO-X, Day 8 UPDATE:

 

I continued lights out dosing with 20ml last evening.

 

This morning looks like... 

A 2nd shrimp died overnight. 

And a 3rd is looking rough. 

 

There goes my colony of shrimp. 

 

I started to google DINO-X and shrimp death... seems to be that DINOs can release toxins as they die. The shrimp maybe most effected as they are on the rockwork and sandbed 24/7. The skimmer probably collects alot of it. 

 

oy-veh. 

 

 

UPDATE: 

 

Well, looking at the photo record there isnt much change today.  

 

Its clear the dinos were sitting on top of green hair algae, thats more visible and waving in the flow,.Eeeew.

 

Obviously that will be the next battle. 

 

 

 

 

Nasty, right. 

 

Well lets see what tomorrow brings. Im looking forward to a big water change and algae scrub at the end of this week... scrub the rock and then I should probably get more snails. 

 

Corals: 

The GSP hasnt been out in several days. The DINOs still have a bit of a hairs in the frag. Ugh.

 

The Monti seems pretty comfortable in a field of Dinos, lol. Shows tiny growth upwards. Geesh. Maybe I should just turn this into a simple sps reef. Dino proof corals only. 

[geekreef_05]

BRINE DIY AUTOFEEDER REVIEW: 

Its been 6 days of automated feeding and my impressions are...

 

 

 

 

 

...wow, i should have done this a long long time ago. This is amazing. There would otherwise be no way for me to keep up with the Chromis schools feeding needs. The reef is fed 20x+ a day between hourly brine and 4/day flake and 2/day pellets. 

 

Its given me alot of time back during the day, lol. Im not constantly thinking about if I have fed the fish. 

 

Feeding brine once an hour from 10am until 7pm in 10ml doses. The consistency is amazing. The fish behavior is incredible and hilarious too. Its like the lowest aggressive group of aggressive fish ive seen. Everyone has a pecking order, but no one gets pecked at. I think strong food availability and regularity is part of that. The hilarious part is at the top of the hour they garther around the dosing line..waiting for that hit of brine lol. Like crack chromis. 

 

Ive made minor adjustments over the week. Increased the density of food per 100ml. And the first morning dose at 10am is 20ml, cause overnight the heavy food settles in the line a bit.

 

Seems like this would be too much food, but the fish are able to consume it all. No left-overs after 30 seconds each feeding. 

 

Not to mention phyto and Microbacter feedings being consistent. We'll see in a couple more weeks if that leads to marked improvements. 

 

CORAL UPDATE: 

Im not sure if the Monti has RTN or if those are growth spots. Its right in the middle of the coral, but around a little bump. Looks like it could be gearing to grow upwards.  

 

GSP is like barely poping its head out today, after may days of being withdrawn. 

 

DINOX UPDATE:

Well i dosed another 20ml last night. Im not sure how much more DinoX will help my situation. Cause I feel like there was a DINO spawning event last night, since there's new DINO looking algae on the glass. Today seems the same as yesterday, maybe worse, with bubbles on the rock. At least the shrimp dont look drunk. I'll continue DINOX to the end of the recommended treatment. I have only a couple days left. 

 

What a frustrating problem. I cant wait to toothbrush off all that rock. 

I want outta this DINO phase and into the coral growing phase. Urg.

[debbeach13]

Nice to hear the auto feeding is going so well. Dino's seems to be the hardest battle to win. I hope victory comes to you soon. 

[geekreef_05]

Ive been thinking lately about what Im missing from this reef. Its definately lacking coralline. And DINOs were never a problem back in the days of live rock. I think some liverock would be extremely beneficial for my system. 

 

Im gonna keep considering it. Might be just 1lb of LR rubble, in the back corner. I need something to spark coralline and better reef health. Months ago, I poured in coralline in a bottle, it didnt seem to help at all. I have practically no coralline growth.

 

Tonight will be the final treatment of DINO-X. Then I'll setup for a big water change this weekend. 

 

 

[rimga123]

surprisingly good results with the automatic feeder!

 

I think that you would benefit greater by making sure that nutrient levels are stable and sufficient to battle Dinos instead of getting more live rock.

as someone who battled dinos myself a good few times now, I cannot stress enough of making sure that your nutrients, both Phos and Nitrates are up and never into the undetectable territory. manual removal has done wonders as well. UV light can be super useful depending which type of Dino you got and not scraping any of the algae from the rocks or glass helps with speeding up the process of letting them out compete the dinos.  But I think that key is sufficient nutrient levels. in my case it took about 2 weeks to go from very bad dino outbreak to a clean tank, i was testing po4 and no3 daily and dosing accordingly.

If you think that you are lacking of micro diversity, you can always dose bacteria, which helps.

 

 

[geekreef_05]

Rimga, 

 

What Nitrate and Phos levels were you maintaining?  What were your levels leading upto the DINO outbreak? I would be interested to hear your take on how DINOs are linked to nutrient levels. Some say keep 'em high, others say it doesnt matter and its really bacterial driven. Whats your take? 

 

After your treatment and seeing DINOs disappear, how long did it take for DINOs to return? What caused their return? Where your nutrient levels low?

 

Note that (1) I am running UV, (2) I am dosing bacteria (MB7) and (3) Ive been dosing DINO-X with no carbon...  and Ive been having success, although slow. That said...

 

UPDATE: 

I dosed a 25ml hit of DINO-X last night. 5ml over normal.. 

And lost another shrimp as well as my orchid dottyback.  Both found dead this morning. I have to assume its directly related to the DINO-X. Super sad morning. The release of DINO toxins into the water must be the issue. 

 

Well, Im at the end of the DINO-X treatment and after two weeks things are looking better. There is still a thin layer of DINOs, but i'll rely on the MB7 and manual removal from here out.

 

The cost has been high. Total destruction of my shrimp colony. Dinox did a number on my shrimp, coral and fish. I would not call this stuff reef safe. 

 

Tomorrow is gonna be a nice glass cleaning, huge water change and a thorough scrubbing of the rock to get the green algae off, that is living under my layer of DINOs. 

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

Are you in the Macks Reef Dinoflagellates Support Group on FB? lots of interesting/useful knowledge there 

[Koleswrath]

Macks reef FB got me through Ostreopsis Dinos fairly quickly without losing any livestock. They’ve got it down pretty good. 
I highly recommend!

[KC2020]

That looks like a really nice reef tank. Sorry to see that you're fighting Dinos. 

There are at least 5 types of Dinoflagellates and each is stubborn in its own way. My best results of preventing or removing them has been a UV running at the minimum flow rate for the specific UV. Siphon out what you can. Keep the lights off, even black out the tank with card board and more than anything be patient. It took a while for them to get the upper hand and it'll take a while to reverse their dominance.

 

Best of luck !

[rimga123]

I have struggled with keeping phosphates and nitrates detectable in my tank since I moved everything from 20gallon to 15gallon waterbox. Probably just much higher coral load would absorb everything quickly. Dinos have showed up when i completely bottomed out on both po4 and no3. Corals struggled as well. When your tank nutrients are low, it is very easy for dinos to outcompete everything else. I started dosing both no3 and po4, my tank took a lot more doses of po4 for it to become stable. I kept no3 at about 50 and po4 at least at 0.5. Every time when i became more lazy with dosing and checking the nutrients levels, dinos would show up, because were at 0 again. Noe my nitrates are at about 50 and phos so high that my hanna ultra low range phosphate checker ca not even give me a reading. Havent notice any negative effects from having nutriets this high, onlt positives. But each tank is different

 

[geekreef_05]

Its fascinating to hear the Nitrate and phos levels folks are maintaining and /or targeting. 

 

I appreciate the share. 

 

I feel like 'the ideal' levels change every decade like cool denim jeans. 

 

Generally, I agree that in my experience high nutrient reefs are usually easier to grow coral. Ive got alot of fish and feed hourly. Im definitely on the end of high nutrients going into the tank. 

 

I need to test parameters, which i'll do at the end of next week. From now until then, I want a solid week of operation without dinox or other stressors to let the tank settle. 

 

Update:

I completed a solid 90% water change. Brushed the rock off first with a toothbrush and wiped all the dino from the glass when the water level was low so as not to reintroduce any spores. Lots of algae, both dinos and gha removed.

 

I replaced all filters and put some carbon back into the system. 

 

The rock underneath is a solid green with now short GHA. After seeing that i went to my LFS for brine shrimp and phyto, but also came home with 5 more torchus snails. After acclimation i placed them right on the rock. 

 

I'll need more snails to keep the GHA in check. i may order some next week. Looking at the complete green coverage of the rock its almost certain that GHA will explode shortly if not managed.

 

From one problem to the next!

Lets see what happens!.

[geekreef_05]

This morning. Not bad from a distance but..

 

 

Ugh. I woke up this morning expecting clear water after the big WC and algae clearing. 

 

Instead the reef has a mild cloudy haze and distinct smell. Its obvious the OG bacterial infection has returned. The UV is fighting it off. But damn. Literally from one problem to another overnight. 

 

*picard facepalm* 

 

If you look "down the pipe" the cloudiness is observable. Usually i can see clearly to the other end.

 

 

Im glad UV is running 24/7. This is the first time that UV has been in the tank when the bacterial infection hit (vs putting it in after as a cure )..Lets see if it can knock it out as quickly as it started. Prevention pays off today.

 

I feel like this white bacteria is the default state of the aquarium. If i do nothing, the bacteria takes over, turns the water milky white permanently and everything dies.

 

Even when its not seen, its always present, luking in the aquarium.

 

And leaping at every opportunity to once again become the dominant lifeform on this reef. 

 

Its clear to me, with this reef, if no action is taken, it trends towards death. Thats brutal. Ive never had a reef this difficult.

 

Ugh. 

[geekreef_05]

Oh yikes ! 

 

Update, Day 2 of OG Bacterial ReInfection: 4th time fighting this...

 

I double facepalmed this morning. When i peered into the reef, its even worse than yesterday with white baterica clouding the water. 

 

 

If we look down the pipe to compare...

 

Unreal that it got worse. I was looking forward to a clear aquarium this morning, before i leave for work this afternoon - for a week. This week will be a real test of automation. 

 

That was my expectation since i wasnt catching up to the problem this time, i was ahead of it. /frustrating reef

 

I took action. I have an identical backup UV unit. 

 

So i added that into the aquarium for more uv hrp....

 

 

Probably hard to see from the photo with the lens filter. The new unit is on the left. Old on the right. Immediately i noticed the flow rate was better on the new one. So I cleaned out the old unit, added a new filter but it didnt really improve. 

 

Hm. This leaves me with questions to answer: 

 

Is it possible my old unit is not effective due to change in flow rate, as it ages? Is the turnover of the unit just too slow? 

 

I have to wonder...how powerful a uv unit is needed to fully prevent these outbreaks? Or due to turnover limitations for uv effectiveness, is that even possible? 

 

Well. I'll have to ask my wife to send me a picture tomorrow morning, looking down the pipe, lol. 

[rimga123]

if anything, slower flow trough the UV chamber should have made it even more effective. giving more time for the UV to kill the bacteria. maybe the bulb has gone bust on it? will be interesting to see if addition of another uv unit will improve everything.

[geekreef_05]

Good points.

Good to know slow flow should have improved it. 

 

And ya... what if the bulb is just dead? 

[rimga123]

I am not 100% sure, but I think that you cannot replace the bulb in these units. getting a new one might be the only option. but check the supplier manual for them.

[geekreef_05]

LESSON LEARNED: 

Automated Phyto Dosing made a huge mess of my fridge and i lost half my my bottle! Aaaah. 

 

In my reef fridge is a bottle of phyto. And everynight the automates bubbler ran, it would overflow and make a huge mess. Each morning i would try to solve it with makeshift seals. 

 

 

Really i need the right container with a sealed lid. A drilled Gatorade bottle would even work. I'll that when i return from travels. 

 

But for now i just set the auto phyto bubbler to 1min a night, 10 mins before dosing.

 

i used 1 minute cause i turned it on, watched and noted at 2min bubbles get close to escaping the bottle. Lol 

 

I also chose a bottle that i had laying around, which i though would be phyto escape proof. I was wrong.  

[geekreef_05]

ONE WEEK LATER... 

 

I have returned! The one thing i can count on, when i return from worktrips are reef problems. 

 

 

Two major technical failures: 

One: Brine Shrimp feeding failed at the end. A clogged connection fitting was the culprit. I'll have to drill it out or figure out a solution for max flow.

 

Two: Skimmer wasnt getting enough air. It was just idoling. Hm. I didn't think i touched the throttle before i left. In fact, i was cautious not to move it. 

 

Anyway, no real skimming occurred over the week. 

 

As a result, dinos have created a nice thin matt of slime across the rockwork. And at the same time the white bacterial explosion has continued. Almost certainly prolonged by the lack of skimming. Once i tuned the skimmer, it went crazy pulling out alot of dark skim. Huge volume too, like 600ml in 24hrs, compared to a normal 150ish. 

 

 

Rrrrr...personally i believe the Office Reef is cursed by the plague of dry rock. 

 

Another result is that Ammonia has been on a rollercoaster ride. 

 

NEXT STEPS: 

Im preping a water change now to bring ammonia back to acceptable levels. Rid the reef of the deadly ammonia levels.

 

And. I ordered 3lbs of liverock from J&L aquatics, in other to seed the reef. 

 

Its been a terrible ride for this reef. Ive never seen anything like it in my nearly 25+ years of reefing... 

 

I have not had good success with dry rock in this, the office reef, nor the 15 gallon Desktop Reef prior to this, where i returned to the hobby after a few years off. Both running into these weird issues in the first year, that are overpowering and unheard-of back in the day...

 

...i have a strong belief that liverock is going to solve both the dino and baterica problem and bring stability to the reef. We'll see! 

 

In the meantime, i'll do this water change and crank that skimmer to max.

[debbeach13]

Way to hang in there! There's so much going on with tank. When the shrimp feeder clogged did it flood the refrigerator?

[geekreef_05]

UPDATE: 

 

After an 80% water change things are looking better. Skimmer still pulling out alot of nasty stuff. Clarity is around 80% of normal. 

 

 

One oddity. After the water change the Seneye said Ammonia dropped by half. Given the size of water change it should have dropped alot more. So im not fully believing the Seneyes readings at this time. 

 

 

If i zoom-in the dinos bubbling from the rockwork are apparent.

 

 

Well Thursday my liverock arrives from Aquarium Illusions in Edmonton. I called the store to see where it had come from. Its fiji liverock from old reefers who sold it to the store as they departed the hobby. Nice! I feel like this is a score for an old school reefer like myself. So i up'd my order for a total of 25lbs. I will put about 5lbs of rubble into the back chamber of my waterbox 20 and let it cycle for another year.

 

And the remaining 20lbs will replace rock in this - The Office Reef. 

 

I am so looking forward to this. Oh liverock how ive missed you. 

 

I may cycle the liverock in a bucket for a few days before putting it into the Office Reef.

 

On a dissapointing note, the 3lbs of real reef rock i ordered from JandLAquatics turned out to be not liverock at all. Just precured fake rock. I tried to cancel my order, but it was too late. Noooo. 

 

[Koleswrath]

What are you expecting to be different about the “liverock” from aquarium illusions? It’ll be basically the same as the “cured” rock from J&L. This is far removed from Ocean live rock. It’s probably been in severely ill maintained aquariums over the years and the last time I was in aquarium illusions it was covered with aiptaisia.

They’ll both have some decent bacterial diversity so hopefully they offer some competition for those Dinos. If you’d like a microscope ID to help you fight them send me a water sample.

 

[geekreef_05]

I think its not the same as J&Ls rock. 

 

J&L is like manufactured painted rock. 

Aquarium Illusions is re-used ocean liverock.

 

Both come in today. I will take pictures for folks.

 

 

I do expect liverock to come with all the ugly stuff that liverock has. But wow. Good to know that Aquarium Illusions rock looked nasty. Hm. Being in Ontario, im buying rock sight unseen which sucks. 

 

But for the most part, i have delt with liverock nasties in the past relatively easily. When i compare that effort to the incredible swings in microbiology im witnessing in my office reef and what im doing in water changes and cleaning seems excessive. 

 

White bacterial blooms. 

Dino domination. 

Total lack of coralline. 

 

Its a red flag to me, after a 1 year of being up. 

 

If i can get ahold of a microscope, i'll post pictures pf those dinos

[Koleswrath]

Ok, I hear ya, I'm not a fan of the painted concrete rock either. As far as porosity goes and holes in the rock for all the little critters you're absolutely right going with the Aquarium Illusions rock. But ya, get out the Kalk paste to murder those little suckers. I did a dry rock start to avoid them and I'm now stable and pest free but it was a wild ride. The crux is that I'm now paranoid about adding anything to my tank in fear of introducing a pest......lol....ce la vie.