Cyano in new tank

[BioReefed]

9 minutes ago, PJPS said:

Can we get an FTS?  see if we need to readjust anything, I wanna help get you where you'd like to get 🙂

.Thank you. 

And by FTS you mean? Full time support? lol , I'm not good with abbreviations. Well I couldn't stand the way my tank looked so I did a 10% water change on sunday. I picked up by hand first all of the red from the sand, clean the glass, then siphon the sand. The nitrtaes went down from 10 to 5 or maybe a little less, hard to tell by matching the color on the test kit. and the Phosphates remain at 0.2. Next day the cyano started to re appear in the sand again, I'm waiting to get thick so I can manually remove it. i really hope it goes away soon. I still need to add some pods to keep a good balance, I noticed I'm getting diatoms again in the back wall.

I will check again in a couple of days and see if the parameters have change.

[PJPS]

40 minutes ago, BioReefed said:

.Thank you. 

And by FTS you mean? Full time support? lol , I'm not good with abbreviations. Well I couldn't stand the way my tank looked so I did a 10% water change on sunday. I picked up by hand first all of the red from the sand, clean the glass, then siphon the sand. The nitrtaes went down from 10 to 5 or maybe a little less, hard to tell by matching the color on the test kit. and the Phosphates remain at 0.2. Next day the cyano started to re appear in the sand again, I'm waiting to get thick so I can manually remove it. i really hope it goes away soon. I still need to add some pods to keep a good balance, I noticed I'm getting diatoms again in the back wall.

I will check again in a couple of days and see if the parameters have change.

Full tank shot 🙂

 

nutrients are good, if they stay in balance for another little bit, not spiking/dropping too wildly, and we shovel in a few diverse loads of snails, you'll be annoying people with healthy tank shots soon enough.

 

 

10% every 2w is perfect (5% weekly works too) for now, just feed etc as normal, test again in 7 days, I bet the uglies die down some between then and now.  Pods & Snails should haunt your dreams until that tank is as clean as you like it.  The more you add, the more you need to observe, there should be tiny patches of film algae here and there, it means the aren't starvin and dying.  In a nano it's easy to see the numbers dwindle  -  Time for a re-up next time there's sale (or splurge if necessary)

 

The initial herbivore load always hurt$.  $150 on snails and shit?  Have you seen the mushrooms that'll buy?  Clean tank vs sadness is the trade-off, can't wish it away unfortunately :(.  If you do it in  1 shot, start feeding benepets or coral frenzy.  Keepem alive, they'll reward you with no algae.

 

[BioReefed]

17 minutes ago, PJPS said:

Full tank shot 🙂

 

nutrients are good, if they stay in balance for another little bit, not spiking/dropping too wildly, and we shovel in a few diverse loads of snails, you'll be annoying people with healthy tank shots soon enough.

 

 

10% every 2w is perfect (5% weekly works too) for now, just feed etc as normal, test again in 7 days, I bet the uglies die down some between then and now.  Pods & Snails should haunt your dreams until that tank is as clean as you like it.  The more you add, the more you need to observe, there should be tiny patches of film algae here and there, it means the aren't starvin and dying.  In a nano it's easy to see the numbers dwindle  -  Time for a re-up next time there's sale (or splurge if necessary)

 

The initial herbivore load always hurt$.  $150 on snails and shit?  Have you seen the mushrooms that'll buy?  Clean tank vs sadness is the trade-off, can't wish it away unfortunately :(.  If you do it in  1 shot, start feeding benepets or coral frenzy.  Keepem alive, they'll reward you with no algae.

 

I really appreciate all the help. I will follow all the steps, I hate waiting but I know it is the best option instead of putting chemicals and try to fix it fast.

Here's a picture of my tank right before the water change. 

[PJPS]

5 minutes ago, BioReefed said:

I really appreciate all the help. I will follow all the steps, I hate waiting but I know it is the best option instead of putting chemicals and try to fix it fast.

Here's a picture of my tank right before the water change. 

Well shit, that's barely a problem :).  The cyano is an eye sore, so siphon  that once it's bothering you.  pods & regular live phyto run the sandbed, so keepem happy.  Snails will work that green rock for literally weeks, but it'll get there.

 

Really, you're doing way better than I pictured in my head A+

 

Look at that fluffy gorg! water quality must be decent, Gorgs are my canary for enough particulate in the water.  If they're fluffed out, most any filter feeder will be too (fan worms, etc)

[PJPS]

This video gets me through the rough patches :).  When I need a pep talk, say after a big leather destroys $300 of SPS in a week.  I'm on a disability pension of $1200/m, that's mortgage, food, meds, everything, so $300 down the tubes HURTS.  But we reefers push ahead 🙂

 

 

 

[BioReefed]

31 minutes ago, PJPS said:

But we reefers push ahead 🙂

Thanks for the video. I know it gets very expensive. The only things I have lost were my fish, and I was about to quit just after 2 months right after  I thought it was dinos in my tank. i will push ahead 💪

[mcarroll]

12 hours ago, BioReefed said:

I wonder what those are, any idea?

At least some of those are nematodes.....healthy heterotrophs are a good sign!

 

I agree that it's an interesting assemblage of material, algae, and critters.  Not typical of dino's at all....things in the tank trend toward mono-crop once dino's attain critical mass/become visible.

 

11 hours ago, BioReefed said:

The nitrtaes went down from 10 to 5 or maybe a little less, hard to tell by matching the color on the test kit. and the Phosphates remain at 0.2. Next day the cyano started to re appear in the sand again, I'm waiting to get thick so I can manually remove it.

👍

 

Remember, as long as cyano isn't growing on your corals, it's actually helping the tank....so try not to worry too much about it.  

 

It's actually pretty rare for cyano to bloom out of control.  And it usually clears up on its own....although sometimes the timeframe can be quite long.

 

It's still cool (but sometimes difficult) to figure out what's making it bloom though!  

 

For example, if you still have corals that are adapting to your tank, then IME that tends to drive some cyano growth....I believe due to their shedding a a lot of mucus during the process, but that's just my hunch.

 

Over-feeding or running dirty filters or un-cleaned skimmer in the tank are also common causes of cyano growth.

 

Cyano is GREAT at showing up whenever it's needed....it's just not always immediately clear why it's needed.

 

In your case, there's no real mystery – just a mild case of The Uglies that every tank goes through.  I agree with PJPS that you don't even have a real problem at this point – tank looks great; looks just like it should at this stage!  👍

 

I think occasionally siphoning it out is a reasonable approach.  I dunno about doing any more than that, other than continuing to do what you're doing to fix anything that's "out of balance".  IMO it looks like you're doing a good job.  

 

10 hours ago, BioReefed said:

Thanks for the video. I know it gets very expensive. The only things I have lost were my fish, and I was about to quit just after 2 months right after  I thought it was dinos in my tank. i will push ahead 💪

Was that the same tank as this?

 

Fish are much more difficult to do correctly than corals, BTW.

 

I think it's fairly common for folks to have it in mind the other way around that corals are difficult and that fish are easy.  

 

I think that misconception leads to LOTS of problems that would otherwise be completely avoidable...even fish disease.

 

[BioReefed]

8 hours ago, mcarroll said:

For example, if you still have corals that are adapting to your tank, then IME that tends to drive some cyano growth

That could be true in my tank too. I believe the cyano started after I a week or may 2 weeks after I added a leather coral in my tank. The coral wasn't looking very good after a few days, it was shedding and it shrank up, i thought it was normal for a leather coral. but then I realized and learned that I shouldn't have my tank running zero Nitrates and zero Phosphates, then I removed the purigen and chemipure, started adding some nitrates and phosphates for three days. Then after those were constant and stable, I saw a huge difference in all my corals, Specially the leather, even my Ricodias almost double in size in juts a few days. Then the cyano came, and luckily it was that because I thought it was dinos at first, and for that reason I didn't do any water changes. But knowing it is cyano, I did a water change last week, and I will continue to do them every two weeks.

last night I added some pods, and a new coral (clove polyps) let's see how they do.  

[PJPS]

You're in the right lane now, just keep things simple for a bit, do just as you're doing, the tank will soon outpace your wallet's ability to  fill it.  That's when the real addiction sets in, when you only buy what thrives, and it all grows.  You get $pendier pieces because you only have room for 2, so you challenge yourself.

 

Enjoy the twitchy tank while you can still afford all 3 meals every day 😂 

[BioReefed]

54 minutes ago, PJPS said:

You're in the right lane now, just keep things simple for a bit, do just as you're doing, the tank will soon outpace your wallet's ability to  fill it.  That's when the real addiction sets in, when you only buy what thrives, and it all grows.  You get $pendier pieces because you only have room for 2, so you challenge yourself.

 

Enjoy the twitchy tank while you can still afford all 3 meals every day 😂 

😆

[BioReefed]

I think it is getting worse, still in the sand. The color seems to be more bright red and the strings getting longer. I'm removing as much as I can every 2 days, it is very annoying, and I'm losing some sand every time I remove it.

 I don't see any progress, I have some diatoms also growing on the back of the tank along with some cyano.

I wonder if I should keep adding microbater7 again. I don't have fish and I'm only feeding the corals once a week.

The parameters change a little, since its hard to read the colors on the test kit, I got one of those hanna checkers that so many people recommends, it gave me some accurate reading on the Nitrates, went down from 5 to 3.79.

I also hated it, I should have stick with the drop test. Those Hanna tests have so many steps and so many things to add to a single water sample that when I finished testing I felt that I completed a whole science course, they should send you a science degree and a diploma along with the test.

 

[PJPS]

1 hour ago, BioReefed said:

I think it is getting worse, still in the sand. The color seems to be more bright red and the strings getting longer. I'm removing as much as I can every 2 days, it is very annoying, and I'm losing some sand every time I remove it.

 I don't see any progress, I have some diatoms also growing on the back of the tank along with some cyano.

I wonder if I should keep adding microbater7 again. I don't have fish and I'm only feeding the corals once a week.

The parameters change a little, since its hard to read the colors on the test kit, I got one of those hanna checkers that so many people recommends, it gave me some accurate reading on the Nitrates, went down from 5 to 3.79.

I also hated it, I should have stick with the drop test. Those Hanna tests have so many steps and so many things to add to a single water sample that when I finished testing I felt that I completed a whole science course, they should send you a science degree and a diploma along with the test.

 

Nitrates seem fine, where’s your PO4 out of curiosity (unless it’s really low, it’s not involved).  How is the flow in there?  I can’t see what mechanism MB7 would use to “beat” cyano.  We’re looking to determine the cause.  If you’re determined to nuke it, use chemiclean.  It”ll get rid of it, after that, some MB7 is probably a good idea.

 

e: there’s my bias coming through, I don’t love MB7, but short term it should help outcompete the cyano.  Personally, I’d 1/2 dose the MB7, but add 10 drops of vinegar to fuel growth.  You want them multiplying, not just a lot of bacteria.

 

Every 2 days?  You weren’t overwhelmed before 😊

 

can I get a tank shot?

 

you get cyano in a mature tank, it’s worse in a bare tank.

 

Cyano

 

[BioReefed]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:46 PM, PJPS said:

Nitrates seem fine, where’s your PO4 out of curiosity

my phosphate reads 0.2 that's as close as I can match the color on the test. I took a break on the mb7 but I started again two days ago, and the reason was because I have not seen any improvement and I don't want it to take over my whole tank, I'm adding some phytoplankton along with the mb7 also. Also there's a lot of diatoms growing on the back of the tank mixed with cyano.

Here's a pic of the tank  

[mcarroll]

Does water flow in the tank seem to be gentle?

[PJPS]

2 hours ago, BioReefed said:

my phosphate reads 0.2 that's as close as I can match the color on the test. I took a break on the mb7 but I started again two days ago, and the reason was because I have not seen any improvement and I don't want it to take over my whole tank, I'm adding some phytoplankton along with the mb7 also. Also there's a lot of diatoms growing on the back of the tank mixed with cyano.

Here's a pic of the tank  

PO4 is AOK

 

you can try blitzing it with a bit of bacteria.  If I’m gonna dose liquid, I like Dr. Tim’s eco balance. My preference overall is life source mud. But it’s expensive for a one off.  I just keep a small bag around and use it pretty much for all my bacteria needs.

 

By blitz I mean half the weekly dose 😂

[BioReefed]

46 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Does water flow in the tank seem to be gentle?

I would say medium flow

[PJPS]

6 minutes ago, BioReefed said:

I would say medium flow

Medium flow should be plenty.  Personally, I think you should just leave it.  It’s not hurting anything, in fact the opposite.  Might not like the way it looks, but it is literally doing your tank no harm.  A healthy tank will have patches of cyano.  Your tank is empty so they’re all you see.

[mcarroll]

22 minutes ago, BioReefed said:

I would say medium flow

If you sit and pay attention for a while, do you ever see the flow moving things across the sand bed?   Does it ever tumble a really small piece of sand?

 

If your flow can't keep detritus from settling, then it's possible you are loading your sand and rocks with more detritus than you'd want to.  

 

Easy to test – just try blasting off your rocks with a powerhead or similar (even by hand) and see what happens.  Do the same for the sand – especially around the base of the rocks and under the flow sources.  (This is usually supposed to be a weekly/monthly/as-needed maintenance item....most folks prefer less work, so more flow is "better".) 

 

You'll pretty much know right away whether there's a "problem" (or not!) and where it's most concentrated.

 

BTW, detritus in the sand and rocks is a "problem".   Detritus in the water is one of the perfect coral foods.  (sometimes aka "Marine Snow")

 

I agree that the algae you're seeing in the tank is still not really a problem per se.  Worth vacuuming out occasionally.  Worth investigating like this.  Definitely not worth any stress or panic tho.  🙂 

[BioReefed]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If you sit and pay attention for a while, do you ever see the flow moving things across the sand bed?   Does it ever tumble a really small piece of sand?

 

If your flow can't keep detritus from settling, then it's possible you are loading your sand and rocks with more detritus than you'd want to.  

 

Easy to test – just try blasting off your rocks with a powerhead or similar (even by hand) and see what happens.  Do the same for the sand – especially around the base of the rocks and under the flow sources.  (This is usually supposed to be a weekly/monthly/as-needed maintenance item....most folks prefer less work, so more flow is "better".) 

 

You'll pretty much know right away whether there's a "problem" (or not!) and where it's most concentrated.

 

BTW, detritus in the sand and rocks is a "problem".   Detritus in the water is one of the perfect coral foods.  (sometimes aka "Marine Snow")

 

I agree that the algae you're seeing in the tank is still not really a problem per se.  Worth vacuuming out occasionally.  Worth investigating like this.  Definitely not worth any stress or panic tho.  🙂 

I don't see any sand moving with the flow, usually when I put a small pebble of crab food (just one) I see it move across the sand bed, and I can see the strings of cyano moving with the current. 

I blasted the rocks and specially by the base there are some detritus there, mostly snail poop.

But I also noticed once I got home that the cyano is growing more and it is killing my new clove polyps, they were starting to open up, now they are covered in some green algae and cyano. the rest of my corals look good. My ricordia mushrooms tripled in sized, my gorgonian it is fluffed up, my leather coral seems to be growing and finally open all the time, and my GSP very green and healthy. I have not test the water today yet. Here are some pics

[PJPS]

That actually looks even better than I thought.  I see quite a bit of life on the back wall, greens and pinks, not only is there nothing wrong, stuff is moving along nicely.  If life is spontaneously flourishing on your back wall, things are heading in a good direction.

 

How old is it again?

 

this mindset might help. Your reef tank is basically a biology experiment, treat it like one.  If cyano bothers you, read/watch all about it.  You’ll learn what environments it likes (so you can deny it the home it likes)..  You’ll learn what it consumes and expels.  It’ll take a 20 minute reading/watching session and you’ll never be stumped again.

 

I find there is a real desire to ignore the giant field of marine science, and pretend none of it relates to what we do in our tanks.  Yes, there are differences, yes you need to use hardware to mimic processes that happen in the ocean, but those processes are the same in your tank, as they are in the ocean. They may occur differently in terms of time, but their fundamental mechanics tend to be the same.

 

I of course, am happy to help with whatever problems you have, but if you’d like to take the reins and get a better understanding, just go to the marine science.  The living ocean foundation. Has an education section that will blow your mind.
 

❤️🧐🍻

[BioReefed]

15 minutes ago, PJPS said:

That actually looks even better than I thought.  I see quite a bit of life on the back wall, greens and pinks, not only is there nothing wrong, stuff is moving along nicely.  If life is spontaneously flourishing on your back wall, things are heading in a good direction.

 

How old is it again?

I started the tank on December 10th. Also I just checked for phosphates and nitrates. Phosphates seems to be steady at 0.2 ppm, but now my Nitrates went from 5 to 3.70 to 0 right now, should I add nitrates again? Neonitro? water changes once a week instead of by weekly?

Actually my phosphates are also 0. Both Phosphates and Nitrates are 0 again

Start a reef tank they said, it will be fun they said.

 

[PJPS]

You only started in December?  Oh dude, the tank is speeding along 😊.  I know you hate it, but I’d love to see Way more three month old tanks look like that.   That’s looking really good for three months.  Pat yourself on the back.

 

(I’d have guessed 6)

[PJPS]

14 minutes ago, BioReefed said:

I started the tank on December 10th. Also I just checked for phosphates and nitrates. Phosphates seems to be steady at 0.2 ppm, but now my Nitrates went from 5 to 3.70 to 0 right now, should I add nitrates again? Neonitro? water changes once a week instead of by weekly?

Actually my phosphates are also 0. Both Phosphates and Nitrates are 0 again

Start a reef tank they said, it will be fun they said.

 

Yep, you want your nitrates around 20 if PO4 is 0.2.  But just get it off 0, then worry about the number.

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, BioReefed said:

Start a reef tank they said, it will be fun they said.

Fun ≠ Easy

Easy = Boring

Stamp collecting is easy.

😉

 

2 hours ago, BioReefed said:

Actually my phosphates are also 0. Both Phosphates and Nitrates are 0 again

Dang!   Partly because you've been doing...

2 hours ago, BioReefed said:

...water changes once a week instead of by weekly?

 

If you must do a water change, then you should dose the new water with N and P so it matches your target levels for the tank.

 

I can't remember now, have you been dosing anything for N or P so far?   Either way, seems like now is the time to start both.

 

You shouldn't be doing anything to "clean" the tank at this point.....except where it comes to keeping algae off your corals.  (If cyano is growing ON a coral, there's a chance that coral was already not doing great.  Is it in good strong flow?  May just be REALLY unhappy about 0 ppm PO4....can lead to tissue necrosis, which could invite something like cyano.)

 

 

[BioReefed]

54 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Fun ≠ Easy

Easy = Boring

Stamp collecting is easy.

😉

 

Dang!   Partly because you've been doing...

 

If you must do a water change, then you should dose the new water with N and P so it matches your target levels for the tank.

 

I can't remember now, have you been dosing anything for N or P so far?   Either way, seems like now is the time to start both.

 

You shouldn't be doing anything to "clean" the tank at this point.....except where it comes to keeping algae off your corals.  (If cyano is growing ON a coral, there's a chance that coral was already not doing great.  Is it in good strong flow?  May just be REALLY unhappy about 0 ppm PO4....can lead to tissue necrosis, which could invite something like cyano.)

 

 

this is the part that gets confusing. My nitrates and phosphates were at zero the whole time I started the tank back in December, then I removed the purigen and chemipure and started adding neonitro and neophos. After that my parameters were stable  for a couple of weeks (nitrates 10, phosphates 0.2) . But because of the damn cyano I started to dose microbacter7, but the mb7 lowers the nitrates and phosphates, and I go back to the same point, zero phosphates and zero nitrates.

 I shouldn't have added that new coral last week until I fix the cyano. It is in good flow, I just moved it and see if I can save it