Help??

[Froge]

For some reason, all my coral seems to be retracting. This tank is a first for me, and I can’t understand why the coral seems to be closing. All my parameters seem fine, and some of my euphyllia seems to be closing, and skeleton of it is starting to show. Some sort of brown algae is staring to grow on the Gorgonian I have, and some of my hermit crabs seem to be dying (Shells going upside down with crab disappearing into either shell). All the fish seem fine, I might be overfeeding a bit, but I’ve backed down on it. The tank is currently 6 months old, and i’m completely lost. I did a water change yesterday to see if it would help, but nothing has happened. Think it could be the lighting, and i’ll post pictures of the tank, along with parameters below. Tank is stocked with 2 clowns, a neon goby, 4 hermits, an Aiptasia eating blenny, 2 Nassarius snails, and 3 turbo snails.

 

Nitrate: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Ammonia: 0ppm

pH: 8.0ppm

(Tested on API testing kit)

^ Entite tank

^ Gorgonian

^ Frogspawn^ Hermit Crab

[M. Tournesol]

(not an expert) At first glance, it could be your 0ppm of ammonia and nitrate. Corals need some.

[M. Tournesol]

@mcarroll or @seabass?

[Froge]

8 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

(not an expert) At first glance, it could be your 0ppm of ammonia and nitrate. Corals need some.

Before water change, they were like this, and I checked it before water change, ammonia was 0.25ppm, and Nitrate was at 5-10ppm. My Nitrite has always been 0ppm, so could that be something?

[seabass]

31 minutes ago, Froge said:

All my parameters seem fine...

Nitrate: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Ammonia: 0ppm

pH: 8.0ppm

(Tested on API testing kit)

Undetectable nitrate is a problem.  I'd like to know your tank's phosphate (using a Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker) and alkalinity (using something like Salifert's kit) levels too.  But this is just a snapshot in time; stability is often as or more important than a point in time measurement.

 

I'd like to see phosphate steady around 0.05ppm and nitrate around 5ppm.  Alkalinity should be stable at what your salt mix mixes to.  Alkalinity is often something I want to check when stony corals are reacting poorly.

 

18 minutes ago, Froge said:

Before water change, they were like this, and I checked it before water change, ammonia was 0.25ppm, and Nitrate was at 5-10ppm. My Nitrite has always been 0ppm, so could that be something?

At 6 months old (unless something of significance has recently died), I find it hard to believe that your bioload is exceeding your biofilter.  Sure, there is always some ammonia in a reef tank, and API is known for detecting low amounts (often interpreted as 0.25ppm, but typically somewhat less than this).

[Froge]

16 minutes ago, seabass said:

Undetectable nitrate is a problem.  I'd like to know your tank's phosphate (using a Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker) and alkalinity (using something like Salifert's kit) levels too.  But this is just a snapshot in time; stability is often as or more important than a point in time measurement.

 

I'd like to see phosphate steady around 0.05ppm and nitrate around 5ppm.  Alkalinity should be stable at what your salt mix mixes to.  Alkalinity is often something I want to check when stony corals are reacting poorly.

 

At 6 months old (unless something of significance has recently died), I find it hard to believe that your bioload is exceeding your biofilter.  Sure, there is always some ammonia in a reef tank, and API is known for detecting low amounts (often interpreted as 0.25ppm, but actually less than this).

Currently I have nothing on hand to check on this stuff, as my lfs just recommended me this. I’ll definitely be looking to get these testers in the future. Is there any way to increase the amount of Nitrate I have?

[M. Tournesol]

More feeding or removing GFO (if you use it)?

[M. Tournesol]

40 minutes ago, Froge said:

Before water change, they were like this, and I checked it before water change, ammonia was 0.25ppm, and Nitrate was at 5-10ppm. My Nitrite has always been 0ppm, so could that be something?

If your nitrate was 5-10ppm before water change, your nitrate shouldn't be the problem...

[Froge]

1 minute ago, M. Tournesol said:

More feeding or removing GFO (if you use it)?

Nah, guess fish will just be a bit fatter for now!

[seabass]

6 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

If your nitrate was 5-10ppm before water change, your nitrate shouldn't be the problem...

This ☝️

 

A water change shouldn't make nitrate undetectable.  There's a little test error going on here too.

[Froge]

4 minutes ago, seabass said:

This ☝️

 

A water change shouldn't make nitrate undetectable.  There's a little test error going on here too.

Definitely gonna invest in some new equipment, and i’ll get those other levels checked out as well. Thanks for the help!

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Froge said:

This tank is a first for me

1 hour ago, Froge said:

All my parameters seem fine

1 hour ago, Froge said:

The tank is currently 6 months old

1 hour ago, Froge said:

Tank is stocked with 2 clowns, a neon goby, 4 hermits, an Aiptasia eating blenny, 2 Nassarius snails, and 3 turbo snails.

1 hour ago, Froge said:

Nitrate: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Ammonia: 0ppm

pH: 8.0ppm

(Tested on API testing kit)

At least until we get more info, the main issue I see is that this is your first tank, it's only 6 months old and already stocked with fish and stony corals.

 

Any chance you test kits are expired?  That will definitely cause funny results.

 

The Gorgonian doesn't look happy, but they can be pretty sensitive.  Otherwise it just looks like new corals in a new tank.

 

Since you have stony corals AND fish already you are going to need a more complete set of test kits.  At minimum:

• calcium
• alkalinity
• magnesium
• nitrates
• phosphates
• specific gravity

 

...pH is optional.

 

API is fine (they do offer kits for all of the above) if your local store carries them, but other brands are generally better.

 

1 hour ago, Froge said:

I can’t understand why the coral seems to be closing. [....]

some of my euphyllia seems to be closing, and skeleton of it is starting to show. 

Some sort of brown algae is staring to grow on the Gorgonian I have [....]

some of my hermit crabs seem to be dying (Shells going upside down with crab disappearing into either shell).

All the fish seem fine, I might be overfeeding a bit, but I’ve backed down on it.

Too much water cleaning (and too little nutrients in the water as a result) is a pretty common problem for new tanks/new tank keepers.

 

We'll know more after you can get a more complete water test.

 

The "brown algae" on your gorgonian is not a good sign....and may also indicate a low nutrient situation.

 

If you were definitely putting so much food in the tank that some of it was going uneaten, then you want to back down so that none is being wasted.

 

Otherwise, you do not want to reduce feedings....and if possible, feeding more might be desirable for the downstream benefits to the rest of the tank.

 

56 minutes ago, Froge said:

Definitely gonna invest in some new equipment, and i’ll get those other levels checked out as well. Thanks for the help!

Let us know!  🙂 

[Tamberav]

What filtration are you using?

 

Nutrients are too low... even the tank itself looks a little too clean.

[Froge]

11 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

What filtration are you using?

 

Nutrients are too low... even the tank itself looks a little too clean.

 

11 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

What filtration are you using?

 

Nutrients are too low... even the tank itself looks a little too clean.

I’m just using some old cremation rings that a friend of mine had used in his reef, along with some filter floss. Thing was like, 5 years old. That’s where I got the stony coral from. Who wouldn’t want free coral! 

[Froge]

20 hours ago, Froge said:

 

I’m just using some old cremation rings that a friend of mine had used in his reef, along with some filter floss. Thing was like, 5 years old. That’s where I got the stony coral from. Who wouldn’t want free coral! 

I just did a test, and it turns out that my alkalinity is at 5.4, or 7dKH. Phosphate was 0ppm. Any idea on how to lower/higher alkalinity?

[aclman88]

6 minutes ago, Froge said:

I just did a test, and it turns out that my alkalinity is at 5.4, or 7dKH. Phosphate was 0ppm. Any idea on how to lower/higher alkalinity?

Your alk is fine. 0 phosphate is a problem though

[Froge]

16 minutes ago, aclman88 said:

Your alk is fine. 0 phosphate is a problem though

Any ideas on how to raise it?

[seabass]

27 minutes ago, Froge said:

I just did a test, and it turns out that my alkalinity is at 5.4, or 7dKH. Phosphate was 0ppm. Any idea on how to lower/higher alkalinity?

Which phosphate test kit did you use?  API goes up in 0.25ppm increments (as it's a high range kit), so you won't get a reading with that test until phosphate is much closer to 0.25ppm.  Phosphate is typically greater than 0.03ppm.

 

Alkalinity of 7.0 dKH is OK by itself.  However, what is the alkalinity of a freshly mixed batch of saltwater?  The answer to this will tell you if it's low or not.  Again, you want stability, not just to be within an acceptable range.  For example, if your salt mixes to 11.0 dKH and now it's 7.0, then alkalinity is low; however, if your salt mixes to 7.0 and it's still 7.0, then alkalinity if fine.

 

Alkalinity is usually adjusted by dosing a two part solution (it's actually three parts if you count magnesium which is normally included).  If a good low range phosphate kit (like a Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker) shows undetectable phosphate levels, then you should increase it.  This might be accomplished by feeding more (but not overfeeding), or you can dose it with something like Brightwell NeoPhos.

[Froge]

8 minutes ago, seabass said:

Which phosphate test kit did you use?  API goes up in 0.25ppm increments (as it's a high range kit), so you won't get a reading with that test until phosphate is much closer to 0.25ppm.  Phosphate is typically greater than 0.03ppm.

 

Alkalinity of 7.0 dKH is OK by itself.  However, what is the alkalinity of a freshly mixed batch of saltwater?  The answer to this will tell you if it's low or not.  Again, you want stability, not just to be within an acceptable range.  For example, if your salt mixes to 11.0 dKH and now it's 7.0, then alkalinity is low; however, if your salt mixes to 7.0 and it's still 7.0, then alkalinity if fine.

 

Alkalinity is usually adjusted by dosing a two part solution (it's actually three parts if you count magnesium which is normally included).  If a good low range phosphate kit (like a Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker) shows undetectable phosphate levels, then you should increase it.  This might be accomplished by feeding more (but not overfeeding), or you can dose it with something like Brightwell NeoPhos.

My lfs didn’t have any Hanna testing kits in stock, so I managed to get my hands on an API kit. I’m definitely looking into trying to get a Hanna one, but for now i’m stuck with an API. I buy pre-mixed saltwater, and when I get my hands on some again i’ll definitely test it.

[growsomething]

 Some of your rock looks new and some in the back looks like it could be seasoned or live rock.  I'm just curious.  Best of luck getting stable nutrients and parameters, there's nothing like growing corals to make an aquarist happy.

 

[Froge]

3 minutes ago, growsomething said:

 Some of your rock looks new and some in the back looks like it could be seasoned or live rock.  I'm just curious.  Best of luck getting stable nutrients and parameters, there's nothing like growing corals to make an aquarist happy.

 

Oh yeah, because I used dry rock when I started the tank, I wanted to try and get some more life in the tank (Amphipods and such). So, my buddy was breaking down his tank and I asked if I could get a piece of rock. He gave me that rock in the back, along with some of the stony coral. Once I can get the parameters stable, I look forward to seeing the growth.

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, Froge said:

Any ideas on how to raise it?

First, try your best to figure out what you're doing to lower it.  Stop doing those things.  (E.g.  filtration media, water changes, et al).

 

It could be that's all it takes.

 

If that's not enough then add more phosphates to the tank via increased feeding (or later if still needed) via liquid phosphate supplement.  

 

Food naturally contains a ton of phosphates, so if you stop removing phosphates from the system and nothing else weird is going on then feeding more should be good enough to do what you need.

 

To get a little better read on your phosphates, try running a second phosphate test on RODI water.  That will be a sure zero.  Next to your fish tank test, you'll be able to tell if there's more blue on it or if it's just as clear/transparent as the RODI test.  Make sense?

 

It might even be a good idea to post a picture of your test results with both vials for comparison.

[Froge]

15 hours ago, mcarroll said:

First, try your best to figure out what you're doing to lower it.  Stop doing those things.  (E.g.  filtration media, water changes, et al).

 

It could be that's all it takes.

 

If that's not enough then add more phosphates to the tank via increased feeding (or later if still needed) via liquid phosphate supplement.  

 

Food naturally contains a ton of phosphates, so if you stop removing phosphates from the system and nothing else weird is going on then feeding more should be good enough to do what you need.

 

To get a little better read on your phosphates, try running a second phosphate test on RODI water.  That will be a sure zero.  Next to your fish tank test, you'll be able to tell if there's more blue on it or if it's just as clear/transparent as the RODI test.  Make sense?

 

It might even be a good idea to post a picture of your test results with both vials for comparison.

I’m just did a test, and the results are:

RODI test results ^

Display test results v

Alkalinity test results v

Ammonia seems a bit high, and alkalinity seems way too high as well.

^ Current photo of tank.

[seabass]

25 minutes ago, Froge said:

Ammonia seems a bit high, and alkalinity seems way too high as well.

It's hard to say with those API Phosphate kits.  They aren't for low range readings.  I always assumed they were for planted aquariums.

 

At this point in time, I actually doubt that you have an ammonia problem.  I know the results doesn't appear to exactly color match undetectable, but that doesn't concern me too much.

 

Alkalinity of 9.1 dKH isn't high in itself.  Again, you want to compare it to a freshly mixed batch of saltwater.  The goal is to keep it stable.  Alkalinity won't go up on its own, only down with consumption.  Water changes partially bring levels closer to where you want them to be.  If dosing eventually becomes necessary, you don't want to elevate it past the level of a newly mixed batch of saltwater.

[mcarroll]

59 minutes ago, Froge said:

I’m just did a test, and the results are:

RODI test results ^

Display test results v

At least to me those two samples look the same color.  

 

If you thought the same thing in-person, then I think it's likely your phosphates are very close to zero or zero....you don't need to know precisely which it is.  👍

 

Let us know if the two samples didn't look the same in person tho.  

 

This estimation works from a practical perspective (and why these tests kits are sold), but it doesn't give you the precision of a good test kit.  

 

Thankfully, all WE are trying to do is avoid zero, and not with any precision...but by a comfortably wide margin!  

 

So...whether your PO4 is 0.00, 0.02 or 0.04 is not particularly relevant – all of them mean the team thing, that po4 is critically low.

 

Importantly, you can't really overdose phosphates.  So any level of precision is more or less fine for your purposes right now.  

 

BTW, pretty much all of the other brands of test kit will deliver better low-range results.  You don't need a kit specifically marketed as "low range".  The real advantage of the Hanna meters is that you don't have to decide "how light blue is the sample?" by estimating....there's a calibrated computer to do that estimation with A LOT more precision!!   

 

For what it's worth, the meters that are marketed as "low range" are set up differently, with more precision close to zero, but with less overall range.  They are more or less intended for people trying to create a "ULNS" where the precision of near-zero readings is crucial.  (Again, not our mission.  ULNS = "Ultra Low Nutrient System" ...a largely discredited reef keeping concept, at least IMO.)